758 réponses à ce sujet

[Jestina]

Infiltrators often spoil my barrier recharge so I guess it's only fair that we spoil their LOL headshot once in a while.

[dw99027]

A real fireteam would communicate such issues away. Alas, it is not so in a videogame. Be nice, Infiltrators have a point too.

[Destructo-Bot]

Unfortunately, several of my deaths can be attributed to teammates "helping" me. I had a few instances where two concurrent charge targets got sniped before I could rush them (it was me and 3 infils) and then you start really hurting for barrier

Other instances of when I charge a phantom someone else takes a shot at them, so my abilities don't stagger them and if they decide it's OHK time you are outta luck.

If you see a vanguard going for a phantom or leaving a single target nearby alone, best not to try to help them

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 25 février 2012 - 03:02 .

[dw99027]

Yep. If you go out of your way to help a Vanguard , just aim for the enemy that's behind him.

[Butthead11]

Jestina wrote...

Too many vanguard bashing threads. Someone needs to post some threads about how stasis and cloak are so op.

Make a thread about it then if you think cloak is actually OP.

I'm sure some actualy infilly players would be happy to school you. 

[Butthead11]

Delta_V2 wrote...

A good infiltrator (which is my primary class, btw, with vanguard my second) can do wonders for a vanguard's survivability. Make sure they can keep a LOS on you, and they can keep enemies from getting you from behind with a few well placed headshots, as well as set up some entertaining charge targets with cryoblast. I know I've saved more than a few vanguards with a timely headshot, and tac cloak makes playing medic easy.

Conversely, a good vanguard makes an infiltrator's life easier. Enemies tend not to rush your position as much when they've got a vanguard up in their face. You just have to accept that the vanguard will spoil your headshots once in a while.

Enemies tend to come from more than 1 spawn point so the vanguard distracting 1 of 3 pathways to the infilly dosen't help him that much, they will still have to very much deal with flankers, grenades, and returning fire. 

[Jestina]

Butthead11 wrote...

Jestina wrote...
Too many vanguard bashing threads. Someone needs to post some threads about how stasis and cloak are so op.

Make a thread about it then if you think cloak is actually OP.
I'm sure some actualy infilly players would be happy to school you.

Already way ahead of your kids in school. I think your moms calling you too, better get going junior.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

You can't have a Vanguard be OP and "Hated for getting teams killed" at the same time.... which is it?

Answer: Neither.  All of the Vanguard complaints stem from user error... not class error.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 25 février 2012 - 01:41 .

[FIRST SIN]

I hate the Vanguard simply because I find that it looses it effectiveness on silver and gold.

[The_mango55]

I had a Vanguard using constant charge/nova combos on silver yesterday. He probably died an average of 3 times per wave. It was incredibly annoying.

[Arppis]

FIRST SIN wrote...

I hate the Vanguard simply because I find that it looses it effectiveness on silver and gold.

Worked really well for me in Silver for 5 matches I played.

I propably got downed maybe 1-2 in the games? It works fine as long as you are smart about it.

Modifié par Arppis, 25 février 2012 - 04:02 .

[janat91]

Arppis wrote...

FIRST SIN wrote...

I hate the Vanguard simply because I find that it looses it effectiveness on silver and gold.

Worked really well for me in Silver for 5 matches I played.

I propably got downed maybe 1-2 in the games? It works fine as long as you are smart about it.

This is so true.

[zr0iq]

Vanguards... charging everything.
Then play as asari, stasis bubble enemies, vanguards do not charge... WHY?

[EsterCloat]

zr0iq wrote...

Vanguards... charging everything.
Then play as asari, stasis bubble enemies, vanguards do not charge... WHY?

Personally, sometimes when an asari stasis bubbles an enemy I'm unable to target the stasised enemy until I get closer to it for some strange reason. If I'm not Charging the stasised enemy, it might be because of that.

Another reason is someone might think you've got it handled and instead feels that they should target an enemy that is a threat. I don't personally do that, unless the aforementioned targeting problem occurs or you actually do have it handled, just saying it might be a possibility.

Modifié par EsterCloat, 25 février 2012 - 06:56 .

[Dark Eff3ct]

Once you get a vanguard player that knows what he's doing, that's when I like having them on the team... mostly this never happens

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Jestina wrote...

Infiltrators often spoil my barrier recharge so I guess it's only fair that we spoil their LOL headshot once in a while.

This. I don't mind if it happens during my charge so I still get my barrior back but no kill (don't give a frak 'bout kills) but it sucks when it stops me charging. Died a few times due to this today, but thankfully I had a kind teammate that would revive me.

[This is the End My Friend]

Dark Eff3ct wrote...

Once you get a vanguard player that knows what he's doing, that's when I like having them on the team... mostly this never happens

Yes, but what are your requirements that proves a vanguard "knows what he's doing"? 

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 26 février 2012 - 05:07 .

[Hyrist]

I find that most players don't know what to do with a Vanguard, rather than Vanguards not knowing what they're doing. Being good at a Vanguard isn't rocket science.

But just because I do charging into an enemy group doesn't mean I need zero support, at least beyond bronze and the first couple of waves of silver.

[Dovahzaan]

I'm just glad, that I don't see any Vanguards on Gold and very rarely on Silver.

Modifié par Dovahzaan, 25 février 2012 - 08:24 .

[Aurellia]

Gold is pretty brutal on Vanguards. You wind up having to use shockwave more and be very careful to plan your moves relative to your team-mates. The biggest bummer is that I can no longer take out turrets solo like I can in silver.

[stjasonl]

EsterCloat wrote...

zr0iq wrote...

Vanguards... charging everything.
Then play as asari, stasis bubble enemies, vanguards do not charge... WHY?

Personally, sometimes when an asari stasis bubbles an enemy I'm unable to target the stasised enemy until I get closer to it for some strange reason. If I'm not Charging the stasised enemy, it might be because of that.

Another reason is someone might think you've got it handled and instead feels that they should target an enemy that is a threat. I don't personally do that, unless the aforementioned targeting problem occurs or you actually do have it handled, just saying it might be a possibility.

I find as a krogan you can't meele an enemy thats in stasis, heavy meele you go right through them.  I thought it would be a good way to activate rage on harder modes.

[LavosOmega1880]

Sooooo, either you're a good vanguard player and totally destroy waves of enemies - leaving your teammates very bored, or you're a bad vanguard and die on the other side of the map - annoying your team mates (most fall into the latter category). Personally, when i see a van charge I look for another wave of enemies to target. Luckily I don't play with many.

[X2-Elijah]

Disclaimer - I have played all the classes up to their level 20 (thus N7 rank at 120), and the vanguard was the very last one I even tried to do. Normally, I favour Asari Adept or a Turian Sentinel. From that angle.. here's what I can say to this discussion.

Frankly, for one, a lot of the hate is well-earned. The following is a pure and simple fact - if you charge in at the very first enemy that rounds the corner at the start of a new wave, then you are a moron, plain and simple. At that point, all of the team should have their ranged weapons already aimed at hotspots and sniping the first-comers. You aren't helping anything (in fact, you are just taking away another ranged weapon in your place, and obstructing their sightlines), and unless you have your shields, charge and nova maxed out, you will die. Alone and unloved.

That said, the vanguard, when played right, can be an absolute beast in silver (I wont bother saying things about bronze, as nearly anybody can roll through it with a half-competent team and some luck). The key is to stay goddamn alive and charge ONLY when you know you will survive - or will do a massively beneficial damage amount that will offset your demise. When the waves start, you better be along with your team and assting - or even contributing - to the sniper kills. Then, when the enemies push past that line of defense, or are thinned out, you can go monkey and mop everything up in seconds.

Against a single enemy, there is no fear to be had - even on gold. Charge, shoot, nova, shoot, charge out - piece of cake. In a group of enemies.. well, depends. In gold, forget about it. In silver - make sure you have a charge-out enemy figured out. And always keep moving, dodging, rolling! If you stand still among enemies, you are, again, a moron.

Also.. keep in mind that at higher levels, you should be able to take care of phantoms if your asari is occupied elsewhere. Charge-nova-melee, with a few shots inbetween, is more than enough on silver, and by the time the other enemies recover from the splash-knockback, you can get out of there with one less phantom to think about.

However. A vanguard's charge is not an ability to mash mindlessly. Yeah, it is great - recharge shields and stun the enemy for a bit, and get you around - but you have your weapons, so GODDAMN USE THEM. And use something light - your ubercool Widow III with full upgrades doesn't matter a damn bit, because you have no cooldown bonus. Keep your colldowns as low as possible - 200%, 180%, maybe 170% reduction at the least. Can handle yourself with a Carnifex? Perfect, stick with that, add a scope, and become a secondary sniper. It does reasonable enough damage right after charge as well, so you might as well ditch that silly shotgun. Now.. the question is, do you need another weapon? I'd say.. yes, better to have something that can spray bullets... a maxed avenger, preferably. Much better for "hold down the fort" instances (hacking, extraction), means you won't have to run for ammo crates, and the spray will help un-cloak the phantoms, so your allies can stasis/shoot them (or you can just charge...). Whatever the choice, keep your weapons well-used, and light on the weight!
As for the general mindset... Don't think you will charge in and uberrollwtfspankpawn everything. You have to think light, think mobile, think agile, think fast. If you stay in one enemy group for more than a few seconds, you are either a) dead, or wasting everyone's time. Get in, do your stuff, get out. Asap. Charging, running, rolling, whatever. And if you don't have anybody covering you, don't rush at that Atlas surrounded by two phantoms and a few turrets. And even if you do... You better had a very good reason for doing that. You don't have to stay glued to your team, but, if you are going to go rambo on anything, make sure you come out of it alive, without spending a medpack. If three snipers are covering an enemy group, don't be an arse, don't charge in there, but watch the sniper flanks and behinds. Work WITH your team, not against them.

As a short summary of the vanguard class... it really is the most fun of them all, imo. You get a lot more mobility, you get to think of the level layouts in a whole another way, your "self-heal" is also an attack, and you have a localized AoE nuke. Effectively, the perfect burst-damage class. But - if you charge like an idiot, if you don't use your weapons, and if you don't keep in mind WHERE YOUR TEAM IS, then by all means, you deserve all the hate the vanguards are normally given. Especially if you are rolling a drell.

Now, as for the other classes having to play with a vanguard or two in a team.. Please understand that they use charge for surviving. Don't snipe the only enemy in front of them (unless it is a phantom/turret), snipe the one behind him, or to the side, or above, or below. Understand that the vanguard is based around the concept of in-n-out, so don't get all whiney if the vanguard does a little loop around the map. But - the exp is shared, the damage taken is not, so by all means, provide covering fire, and don't stop killing enemies just because a vanguard bashed into them. You want to keep him alive as much as he wants to stay alive.

Oh, and the lagging-out-due-to-charge really does stink... :| I trust it will be fixed for the release, because that does mess with the performance horribly.

Modifié par X2-Elijah, 26 février 2012 - 08:03 .

[Chriss0978]

Ahhh if only every Vanguard player read that things would be so different...

Really great post X2-Elijah.

[ChurchOfZod]

The best round I've played so far was 4 vanguards. We destroyed everything.