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[Platonian]

The Dumbing Down Effect
 
I cannot be the first poster on here to point out the extremely obvious dumbing down between ME1 and ME2, will this continue in ME3 I wonder?
 
As a big fan of ME1 I only recently started ME2 and have just got onto Illum after the Horizon mission. So this is why I am posting now.
 
ME2 is still a great game, but it is the comparison to ME1 that shows dumbing down and I fear it will only get worse in ME3. We have gone from a game with open galaxy exploration to one where you have little reason to visit star systems that do not have a mission in them. The mapping of lost worlds, the resources, investigations and on planet combat have all gone. The Citadel Presidium (?) is now a video sequence with the admiral where you see what they could have done anew had exploring cityscapes still been important to the game. The cities have shrunk too and combat consists far more of ribbons which we thread through, rather than open areas to fight in.
 
I know that EA under John Riccitiello want to ensure every game can be “played by your mum”. But it is this dumbing down to widen the demographic that is making once great games only good.
 
ME2 is a good game, I wonder if ME3 will even will even be that? Someone in a focus group out there will have told them that navigating star systems is too hard or shooting without aiming correction is too difficult. If you think this process has stopped here with ME2 you are naïve, as long as they think it will bring a few more punters in the dumbing down will continue.

Modifié par Platonian, 19 février 2012 - 10:26 .

[Exia001]

Oh, look its this thread again...I love how people that post things like this

MASS EFFECT SUCKS
...but I'm a fan

[Biotic Sage]

The "dumbing down" isn't nearly as big of a problem as people on these forums make it out to be. However, video game developers, Hollywood, and the media in general should have more faith in the intelligence of their players/viewers. So I'm not going to completely dismiss your thread here, but Mass Effect is certainly not even close to being the worst perpetrator of the "dumbing down" effect.

I will say that this thread has been done about 50 billion times already though...not sure if you were aware.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 19 février 2012 - 10:30 .

[Oilking72]

What's naive is thinking that people will stop posting more threads like this.

Very original stuff. "A" for effort.

[DJBare]

Platonian wrote...

The Dumbing Down Effect
 
I cannot be the first poster on here to point out the extremely obvious dumbing down

Correct, next!

[N00blet666]

If anything I think ME3 is less dumbed down than ME2. There are more RPG elements,you can customize weaponry,your skill tree's are more complicated than ME2's, you can still customize armor. ME1's weapon system sucked. All the weapons were the same they just had a different number next to them. The weapons in ME3 are actually different weapons not the same weapon with a different number. The combat is faster and more difficult. I don't see how you could possibly think that ME3 is dumbed down.

[MostlyAutumn]

Platonian wrote...

We have gone from a game with open galaxy exploration to one where you have little reason to visit star systems that do not have a mission in them.

And what was the reason to visit those star systems in ME1 exactly?

[N00blet666]

MostlyAutumn wrote...

Platonian wrote...

We have gone from a game with open galaxy exploration to one where you have little reason to visit star systems that do not have a mission in them.

And what was the reason to visit those star systems in ME1 exactly?

Exactly,every planet you visited in ME1 outside of the main quest was the same planet copy pasted and maybe colored differently. In ME2 the sidequest locations actually looked different from one another.

[GuardianAngel470]

N00blet666 wrote...

MostlyAutumn wrote...

Platonian wrote...

We have gone from a game with open galaxy exploration to one where you have little reason to visit star systems that do not have a mission in them.

And what was the reason to visit those star systems in ME1 exactly?

Exactly,every planet you visited in ME1 outside of the main quest was the same planet copy pasted and maybe colored differently. In ME2 the sidequest locations actually looked different from one another.

Colorful, but false. Each planet had distinct terrain. Some was downright terrible while others were passable to moderately enjoyable. Each planet also had a very distinct skybox, which counts for a lot.

Being about to look up into the sky and see a vast rift in the surface of a nearby planet or a dual star setup was extremely impressive.

I do miss those missions, even if the terrain was horrible to drive through/over.

@the OP, as has been stated, this is far from an original topic. I would tell you to utilize the search function if the thing worked worth a damn but it doesn't so I'll just say that emphasizing other gameplay elements is not the same as dumbing down.

In fact, dumbing down itself is an overused and ill-defined buzz phrase to mean all sorts of things in various situations. In this case I would argue that combat became more cerebral as enemies gained specific defenses that required a wide array of different powers to quickly remove, ultimately leading to more issuing of squad commands and overall tactical involvement by the player.

I do feel that basing all weapon upgrades on resources which are very easily available to the player makes any sort of player choice in their advancement path almost null and void but I don't feel that is as bad as most people making these threads make it out to be.

[meteor0L]

at least op didn't say "damn consoles everything is dumped down because of them".

exploration lol. if you don't like driving around on an empty planet, no vegetation or animals at all for 20 minutes for the "disctinct skybox" , there isn't that much to "explore" in me1

[MAZ77]

N00blet666 wrote...

If anything I think ME3 is less dumbed down than ME2. There are more RPG elements,you can customize weaponry,your skill tree's are more complicated than ME2's, you can still customize armor. ME1's weapon system sucked. All the weapons were the same they just had a different number next to them. The weapons in ME3 are actually different weapons not the same weapon with a different number. The combat is faster and more difficult. I don't see how you could possibly think that ME3 is dumbed down.

Is weapon customization what you are playing Mass Effect for? I know I don't. I read the script (thank God I did) - it is more a megalomaniac action-spectacle instead of a RPG. You are following a hero's path through a story instead of creating "your" hero and exploring and DECIDING "his" way through a story.

[Mettyx]

Platonian wrote...

The Dumbing Down Effect
 
I cannot be the first poster on here to point out the extremely obvious dumbing down between ME1 and ME2, will this continue in ME3 I wonder?
 

Yes, it was quite bizarre watching Bioware go to such extreme dumbing down instead of just fixing the inventory by not having so much same weapon versions.
Lazyness seems to be Bioware's motto ever since Dragon Age 2.

[bboynexus]

The ignorance is rife in this thread.

[furryrage59]

The dumbing down of games in general saddens me greatly.

[philippe willaume]

Well yes Bioware acknowledged that the difficulty level in ME2 was not on the same scale as ME1.
I.E ME2 was to easy
I think ME3 is more interesting than ME2 or ME1 as far as weapon and tactics are concerned.
the only 2 things i am not sure is the dialogue and the disappearance of hacking/bypass mini-game and the very succinct dialogs.
(but may be that was for demo purposes)
phil

[Ziggeh]

Ah yes "dumbing down": Criticism of the removal of features which I liked portrayed in a way that's meant to sound objective.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 19 février 2012 - 12:13 .

[Fireblader70]

I know that people generally think massive spectacle = game for the unintelligent, but in this case Mass Effect 3 has greater customisation and depth than Mass Effect 2, as well as the action-packed story someone would expect from a galactic war. The best of both worlds.

Was everyone expecting to talk the Reapers to death? I understand that Dragon Age 2 was a disappointment, but this a whole different kettle of fish.

[squee913]

Platonian wrote...

The Dumbing Down Effect
 
ME2  is still a great game, but it is the comparison to ME1 that shows dumbing down and I fear it will only get worse in ME3. We have gone from a game with open galaxy exploration to one where you have little reason to visit star systems that do not have a mission in them. The mapping of lost worlds, the resources, investigations and on planet combat have all gone. The Citadel Presidium (?) is now a video sequence with the admiral where you see what they could have done anew had exploring cityscapes still been important to the game. The cities have shrunk too and combat consists far more of ribbons which we thread through, rather than open areas to fight in.

Ok, this has bugged me for a while... How is any of the changes you stated dumbing anything down? I miss exploration as well, but it was not rocket science. They did not take it out because they felt people were too stupid to understand how to drive across a planet. They took it out because they felt people would prefer less, but more detailed side missions instead. Or are you suggesting that someone is less intelligent than you simply because they do not like open exploration over these new side quests? 

As for combat... Which open areas did you fight in in ME 1? Most fights were either in a narrow path or a square box with a bunch of crates. Yes, you had a few when you in the mako, but those were rare and designed for vehicle combat not foot fighting. The majority of your fights in ME1 were in just as confined a space as ME2

[alex90c]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Each planet [in ME1] had distinct terrain. 

hahahahahahahahaha

Modifié par alex90c, 19 février 2012 - 12:32 .

[sorentoft]

The exploration in ME1 was... boring. I would much rather have the ME2 model where the side missions have their own maps and purposes. Going to the same warehouse or science station five times in one game is not fun, nor is the driving around (unless there is a purpose like killing that geth dropship.

Oh, and as for dumbing down the game... It takes a lot more effort and intelligence to create seperate areas for each storyline than reusing the same places time and time again. In many ways ME2 actually upgraded the side-missions compared to ME.

Modifié par sorentoft, 19 février 2012 - 12:40 .

[philippe willaume]

Fireblader70 wrote...

I know that people generally think massive spectacle = game for the unintelligent, but in this case Mass Effect 3 has greater customisation and depth than Mass Effect 2, as well as the action-packed story someone would expect from a galactic war. The best of both worlds.

Was everyone expecting to talk the Reapers to death? I understand that Dragon Age 2 was a disappointment, but this a whole different kettle of fish.

Hello
i agree with you take on ME=3
What DA:2  has to do with the topic at hand? (i mean DA:2 is less a massive spectacle than DA:0. iE stuff happens in Kirkwall vs save the world from a blight)

I think the OP mentioned ME1 and ME2.
I enjoyed them both and that does not prevent me to accept that ME2  was easier than ME1.
that did not  make ME2 lessenteratining than ME1. 

What i seen in the demo, makes me think that ME3 is more complex than ME2 at least in the combat and skills/talent sides of things.

Phil

[AlexXIV]

I think the demo was dumbed down compared to ME2. I mean it's only like half an hour long and only 2 Gigs. And it's for free when ME2 still cost 50 bucks at least. Stop dumbing down stuff Bioware! Preorder ... CANCELLED!

Sorry but I wanted to join the fanboy chorus for once. And the thread title basically invited it.

[Rickin10]

furryrage59 wrote...

The dumbing down of games in general saddens me greatly.

I know you meant to say, 'Offering the broader gaming community a more inclusive and satisfying interactive experience.'

[AJRimmsey]

my god is this the worst place to expect a discussion that might highlight deficiencies in a bioware game.

You need to go to a pc exclusive forum to see what people actually think.
All you will get here is console players telling you they dont see a difference which they obviously cannot],and pc players "complaining" about bad graphics and even less gameplay than the previous titles.

As long as you attack a pc gamer you are free here to troll the hell out of people.
As a result this forums just become a screeching ground for kids and brown nosers.

As said time after time,if you want better games STOP buying the ports.
If you bought bioshock 2 or DA 2 or ME 2 then you deserve everything you dont get anymore.

so stop complaining,you cant complain about shooting yourself in the foot.

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 19 février 2012 - 12:53 .