301 réponses à ce sujet

[AJRimmsey]

LegionMan wrote...

Fans ranting on BSN?  Pre-order cancelled!!!
Am I doing it right?

no..

you left out "AWESOME","PWNZ" and if you feel the inclination a few "WTF and LOLZ.

:innocent:

[Ziggeh]

AJRimmsey wrote...

and yes..at the basic level that is what the arguements are ALWAYS about.
console vs pc isnt about the users,its about the standards each expects.

That's certainly a present foce, but tons of it is just oblique nit picking.

[LenaMarie]

I find it really funny this "new generation" of Bioware fan will say things like ME1 was bad, and presumably Bioware's older games too. There are many examples of RPGs still selling (Witcher 2 anyone?), the people who think "moar shooter!" and less boring 'rpg and cutscenes" are the ones who have no concept of what is good.

Case in point? They are the same people who buy Call of Duty Religiously even though it is the same crap regurgitated back at people, in CoD 3 they did not even bother making new assets, people did complain but in the end these shooter fans bought it up in droves ensuring CoD 4 will probably be even less revolutionary, then they talk about people enjoying ME 1 having no taste. Just hilarious.

[Ziggeh]

LenaMarie wrote...

Case in point? They are the same people who buy Call of Duty Religiously even though it is the same crap regurgitated back at people, in CoD 3 they did not even bother making new assets, people did complain but in the end these shooter fans bought it up in droves ensuring CoD 4 will probably be even less revolutionary, then they talk about people enjoying ME 1 having no taste. Just hilarious.

That straw man was looking at you funny.

[LenaMarie]

Ziggeh wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Case in point? They are the same people who buy Call of Duty Religiously even though it is the same crap regurgitated back at people, in CoD 3 they did not even bother making new assets, people did complain but in the end these shooter fans bought it up in droves ensuring CoD 4 will probably be even less revolutionary, then they talk about people enjoying ME 1 having no taste. Just hilarious.

That straw man was looking at you funny.

That is the new audience around here, its painfully obvious. No RPer would ever say with a straight face ME 1 was bad or dialogue heavy  = bad.

[Gibb_Shepard]

LegionMan wrote...

Fans ranting on BSN?  Pre-order cancelled!!!
Am I doing it right?

The BSN has some of the worst wit and general humour than any other forum i've seen.

[didymos1120]

mjharper wrote...

Cities? What cities? Noveria (the port itself) is the only thing in ME1 that might qualify as a city, and that's absolutely tiny in comparison with Illium (even more so if you have Shadow Broker).

Enh, I'd say the Citadel counts as one too. Of course, it ran into the problem of being a bit too large for the amount of stuff in it.

[AJRimmsey]

Ziggeh wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

and yes..at the basic level that is what the arguements are ALWAYS about.
console vs pc isnt about the users,its about the standards each expects.

That's certainly a present foce, but tons of it is just oblique nit picking.

True,there is a lot of nitpicking.
But from the last 3 years of "pc" games can you blame them ?

My perception for instance is i expect games in a series to get better and have more content and gameplay,but the sad truth is the reverse is happening.

we all know deep down this is the grabbing of console cash,which is acceptable as we would all do it if we could.
its just a fact of gaming life now.

as i said earlier,if pc gamers are going to continue the trend by buying the games,then tough ****** on them for doing it.
I dont think anyone who bought the games deserves nothing better than whats being thrown out these days.

its not consolers fault
its not the developers fault
its not the publishers fault

its all down to the gamers who funded it all.

[Kenichi-kun]

LenaMarie wrote...

Case in point? They are the same people who buy Call of Duty Religiously even though it is the same crap regurgitated back at people, in CoD 3 they did not even bother making new assets, people did complain but in the end these shooter fans bought it up in droves ensuring CoD 4 will probably be even less revolutionary, then they talk about people enjoying ME 1 having no taste. Just hilarious.

But are you not actually wanting BW to "regurgitate" Mass Effect 1 for you? To do the same thing, with minor adjustments?

[tetrisblock4x1]

furryrage59 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Mass Effect wasn't intelligent. The RPG genre was never intelligent either, unless you think that flicking through the BGII manual to comprehend the way that magic works is difficult.

Heaven forbit people have a challenge and have to use their brains instead of drooling at the screen, mashing a button, amirite?

That's not a nice of putting it, you just make it sound like work. You didn't have to be smart to beat BGII but it wasn't an unintelligent game. What it did have was depth. There is a huge difference between people who could merely beat the game, and people who know the game well, how to use all of the magic spells and it encouraged exploration. There just isn't that much to discover in Mass Effect, and a lot of what ME does have is just handed to you and not really hidden at all.

[philippe willaume]

Rickin10 wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

The dumbing down of games in general saddens me greatly.

I know you meant to say, 'Offering the broader gaming community a more inclusive and satisfying interactive experience.'

Well Rickin10 I don't think that is furryage59 meant.
Firs lets refrain to not use the Dilbert mission statement generator so and no-one will point out that a game is by definition intrinsically interactive.

I think what furryage59, is saying  that the entertainment industry at large, are using templatisation of the goods to get the project financed
Which lead to the dichotomy of being “intellectually challenging “ is mutually exclusive with “enjoyable by the masses”.
For example “the Hurt locker” has not been produced/financed by a major studio.
 
So you have lots of movie/book with very little story and monolithic characters with no development and are mainly based on special effect and visual effects or Author movies (aka 2h30 of deep introspections usually tending to be depressives and that makes Dickens, Steinbeck or Zola like light fluffy novel authors)
 
Personally I do not think it really applies to the ME or even the DA series but I can see why some are.phil

[mjharper]

didymos1120 wrote...

mjharper wrote...

Cities? What cities? Noveria (the port itself) is the only thing in ME1 that might qualify as a city, and that's absolutely tiny in comparison with Illium (even more so if you have Shadow Broker).

Enh, I'd say the Citadel counts as one too. Of course, it ran into the problem of being a bit too large for the amount of stuff in it.

You're right, but I thought I'd dealt with the Citadel in the previous point. Editing post...

[piemanz]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

saying it again..there needs to be 2 forums for pc and console,as pc gamers dont get that console gamers are getting a game catered to thier standards.
and console gamers dont get that pc gamers want the same.

And you seriously think that's what all the complaints are about?

What you really need is two forums: one for people who are ****s and one for people who aren't.

this is my point exactly

this is what teachers must suffer everyday.
only to have to listen to kids after failing thier exams blame thier teaching style on thier future prospects.

and yes..at the basic level that is what the arguements are ALWAYS about.
console vs pc isnt about the users,its about the standards each expects.

 Or maybe it's just pojection on your part.

I play on PC and only PC. And yes the inventory was broken on PC too.

I love the RPG elements in both games. I think the difference with some people is that for them the "RPG" part of the game is defined by the inventory system.

[Moondoggie]

Platonian wrote...

The Dumbing Down Effect
 
I cannot be the first poster on here to point out the extremely obvious dumbing down between ME1 and ME2, will this continue in ME3 I wonder?
 
As a big fan of ME1 I only recently started ME2 and have just got onto Illum after the Horizon mission. So this is why I am posting now.
 
ME2 is still a great game, but it is the comparison to ME1 that shows dumbing down and I fear it will only get worse in ME3. We have gone from a game with open galaxy exploration to one where you have little reason to visit star systems that do not have a mission in them. The mapping of lost worlds, the resources, investigations and on planet combat have all gone. The Citadel Presidium (?) is now a video sequence with the admiral where you see what they could have done anew had exploring cityscapes still been important to the game. The cities have shrunk too and combat consists far more of ribbons which we thread through, rather than open areas to fight in.
 
I know that EA under John Riccitiello want to ensure every game can be “played by your mum”. But it is this dumbing down to widen the demographic that is making once great games only good.
 
ME2 is a good game, I wonder if ME3 will even will even be that? Someone in a focus group out there will have told them that navigating star systems is too hard or shooting without aiming correction is too difficult. If you think this process has stopped here with ME2 you are naïve, as long as they think it will bring a few more punters in the dumbing down will continue.

I see lots of people using the words "Dumbing down" without really explaining what they mean by that. It's sort of become a buzzword for critics of a new Bioware game. There was NO open exploration in Mass Effect. You were limited to worlds that mad missions on them with planets you could get resorces from but they were basically just the same map with a new filter on it and you couldn't land on all planets. There was no open exploration of the galaxy where you could land on all planets and explore them fully you ar eexagerating. It's not that different in ME2 they actually improved it by making planets look different instead of just having the same map with a new filter and putting enemies in a slightly different place.

Also the Citadel they added other hub worlds instead of just having the Citadel so technically there is far more to explore and see in ME2 if you map out the floorspace it's actually bigger although in ME some people feel it was bigger because of all the elevators that acted as transitions for loading a new area. And personally i was glad they got rid of those things it's not fun when you are back and forth on a fetch quest and you need to take the same long elevator ride.

But my point is ME2 had more variety and as a whole hub worlds made more to explore. Also there were far more open areas to fight in during ME2 not sure what you are talking about? More than half the combat in ME was on side quests which consisted of the exact same corridors over and over.

But none of that constitutes "Dumbing down"

[LenaMarie]

Kenichi-kun wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Case in point? They are the same people who buy Call of Duty Religiously even though it is the same crap regurgitated back at people, in CoD 3 they did not even bother making new assets, people did complain but in the end these shooter fans bought it up in droves ensuring CoD 4 will probably be even less revolutionary, then they talk about people enjoying ME 1 having no taste. Just hilarious.

But are you not actually wanting BW to "regurgitate" Mass Effect 1 for you? To do the same thing, with minor adjustments?

Not at all, Bioware has shown they can keep RPGs revolutionary. I do agree with some critism for ME 1, that they did fix in ME 2 like the exploration planets but the price was too high. This new bioware trend toward no inventory, light skill trees, no upgrading your companions, etc and more action and explosions is kind of sad and less revolutionary because it just makes Mass Effect feel like Call of Duty in space.

[mjharper]

piemanz wrote...

I love the RPG elements in both games. I think the difference with some people is that for them the "RPG" part of the game is defined by the inventory system.

Absoluetly. Some people seem to think that 'RPG' stands for Rinventory Pmanagement Gsystem or Roverly Pcomplicated Gskilltrees.

[AJRimmsey]

mjharper wrote...

piemanz wrote...

I love the RPG elements in both games. I think the difference with some people is that for them the "RPG" part of the game is defined by the inventory system.

Absoluetly. Some people seem to think that 'RPG' stands for Rinventory Pmanagement Gsystem or Roverly Pcomplicated Gskilltrees.

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[Lakan Suko]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

Anybody who thinks ME2 was ''dumbed down'' from ME1 has no knowledge of and taste in good games.

Seriously, people. ME1 was a wreck. It was not a good RPG, it was a terrible shooter, and I'm glad the people at Bioware pulled their heads out and fixed the franchise by making ME2 an incredible experience.

. "oh im right you're wrong, hurrr durrr"... So you are the all knowing being that dictates the values of other's opinions right?

Seriously, give the op a rest, it is clear of what his intentions are, in that he actually cares about the game. Instead of being immature and unreasonably hostile towards differences of opinions(of which, perhaps the same cries have been going on for a millenia here, but it's insane to assune that many worries came from nowhere), why cannot you guyes maintain a serious and mature discussion about it? Why is it that everytime someone shares their concerns, they get their thread wrecked?

Is feedback truly worthless? Is that what you believe in?

[piemanz]

Moondoggie wrote...

Snip..

While i agreee with almost everything in your post, I did like the elevators in ME1. I'll take an elevator over a loading screen any day of the week

[Ziggeh]

AJRimmsey wrote...
My perception for instance is i expect games in a series to get better and have more content and gameplay,but the sad truth is the reverse is happening.

we all know deep down this is the grabbing of console cash,which is acceptable as we would all do it if we could.
its just a fact of gaming life now.

Sort of going off on a tangent here, but I don't think you can ignore the positive impact of increased bank rolls for such games.

But my point was that this forum is packed to the gills with entitled schmucks who descend on every issue real or imagined with little regard for perspective or reason. Having seperate forums for PC and Console users would give you different types of whining, and I'll concede possibly more useful types, but it wouldn't reduce it.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 19 février 2012 - 01:48 .

[DaJe]

N00blet666 wrote...

MostlyAutumn wrote...

Platonian wrote...

We have gone from a game with open galaxy exploration to one where you have little reason to visit star systems that do not have a mission in them.

And what was the reason to visit those star systems in ME1 exactly?

Exactly,every planet you visited in ME1 outside of the main quest was the same planet copy pasted and maybe colored differently. In ME2 the sidequest locations actually looked different from one another.

But they didn't feel like locations. You could see they were small levels with a low res skymap texture arround it. Neither version is perfect, I would have liked a mix between both. Who knows, maybe we get it.

[anlk92]

LenaMarie wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Case in point? They are the same people who buy Call of Duty Religiously even though it is the same crap regurgitated back at people, in CoD 3 they did not even bother making new assets, people did complain but in the end these shooter fans bought it up in droves ensuring CoD 4 will probably be even less revolutionary, then they talk about people enjoying ME 1 having no taste. Just hilarious.

That straw man was looking at you funny.

That is the new audience around here, its painfully obvious. No RPer would ever say with a straight face ME 1 was bad or dialogue heavy  = bad.

I don't think anyone here thinks that way. Especially since ME2 had much more dialogue than the first game.

[Kenichi-kun]

[quote]LenaMarie wrote...

[quote]Kenichi-kun wrote...

[quote]LenaMarie wrote...
[/quote]

Not at all, Bioware has shown they can keep RPGs revolutionary. I do agree with some critism for ME 1, that they did fix in ME 2 like the exploration planets but the price was too high. This new bioware trend toward no inventory, light skill trees, no upgrading your companions, etc and more action and explosions is kind of sad and less revolutionary because it just makes Mass Effect feel like Call of Duty in space.

[/quote]

Mass Effect 2 was an experiment, IMHO. It did some things great, it did strip away a lot of stuff.

Inventory: I actually liked ME 2's better, but it was still lacking. What ME 3 seems to be doing is great for me. ME 1 had guns all over the place that were useless, honestly, have you seen a Lancer that was ever any good? (I saw lancers that were worse then other AR's from two numbers down the line, e.g. a IX worse then a VII)

Exploration: ME 1 didn't have that much. You explored the same annoying planet's crawling up the mountains, and explore the same borin bases. IF you could land on a planet. How many times did you just "scan" a planet and got some stuff? How is that different then the mineral scanning in 2? ME 1 had quantity over quality when compared to 2. Both had 98% of quests as kill quests, but ME 2 was more successful in granting these quests "atmosphere" (IMHO, again).

Combat: 1 tried to be a cover shooter. IT HAD COVER MECHANICS! 2 managed to be a cover shooter, and was promptly booed for borrowing from a successful franchise, rather than retain the previous combat system, which felt somewhat  half-assed (again, IMHO).

Characters: half of 1's cast had great potential, but were species stereotypes: a turian looking for order and justice and finding a turian traitor, a quarian who's great with machines and hates geth, and an old krogan mercenary who's good at fighting. They weren't exactly shallow, but for me Ashley and Wrex were the deepest characters out of the group, the others were big giant canvases for "get to know your favorite alien species in 3 simple steps". Also, the conversations were very obviously spaced with missions, and Garrus's calibrations were really just a continuation of what went on in 1.

Story: 1 was about getting to know the Verse, learning about the reapers, and saving the galaxy. 2 was about shepard and his crew, coincidentally saving the galaxy, but a greater emphasis was placed on actually exploring and seeing the interactions of the galaxy. The merc groups, the Terminus systems all feel like very necessary stuff that you need to know to understand the Verse of Mass Effect.

Those are my summations, I think both games stand equal, but  ME 1 is clearly not superior to 2, again, and finally, IMHO.

[Ziggeh]

LenaMarie wrote...

That is the new audience around here, its painfully obvious.

Sweeping generalisations are always so accurate. It's eerie.

[Naughty Bear]

LenaMarie wrote...

Kenichi-kun wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Case in point? They are the same people who buy Call of Duty Religiously even though it is the same crap regurgitated back at people, in CoD 3 they did not even bother making new assets, people did complain but in the end these shooter fans bought it up in droves ensuring CoD 4 will probably be even less revolutionary, then they talk about people enjoying ME 1 having no taste. Just hilarious.

But are you not actually wanting BW to "regurgitate" Mass Effect 1 for you? To do the same thing, with minor adjustments?

Not at all, Bioware has shown they can keep RPGs revolutionary. I do agree with some critism for ME 1, that they did fix in ME 2 like the exploration planets but the price was too high. This new bioware trend toward no inventory, light skill trees, no upgrading your companions, etc and more action and explosions is kind of sad and less revolutionary because it just makes Mass Effect feel like Call of Duty in space.

This, i would be very happy if they added a conversation system like Dragon Age Origins. Perhaps in a hub world, you can engage in conversation with Garrus and ask for some info on where they are or just continue chatting like you could in the camp site.

Seriously, why can't Bioware add this in Mass Effect?! I personally believe they are dumbing down conversations in future games, Mass Effect 3 demo has less chocies in what you say and it has me worried.