301 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

furryrage59 wrote...

Normal, layman intelligence is the standard, so where did this huge amount of intelligence thing come from?

Stop being overly literal. You don't have a point.

[Il Divo]

Lakan Suko wrote...

You can't just take a feature our and justify it as "saving time", that's a little extreme, that's what making improvements are for... In the same logic, we should take out dialogue choice(making it a choice however like it is now in me3 is not bad) and combat to save time.

But it's not the same logic. The developers need to perceive a reason why the feature is so bad that they're better off scrapping it. Removal and improvement are both options for any feature. In this case, they chose the former for planetary exploration.

Modifié par Il Divo, 19 février 2012 - 03:41 .

[nitefyre410]

furryrage59 wrote...



Normal, layman intelligence is the standard, so where did this huge amount of intelligence thing come from?

 


Because its the attitude that some RPG players have that  they are smarter than gamers that play other  genre's

when in fact  that is not true.

[SNascimento]

ME2 > ME1.
.
Fact.

[Lakan Suko]

Ziggeh wrote...

imnar wrote...
i'm speaking rpg type inventory.

Right, and I think you're being too literal. In this case I don't believe the mechanism is as important as what it achieves.

imnar wrote...
i just played me1 and me2 back to back. you cannot swap ammo type, armor or even specific (e.g. diff. types of snipers) gun type on the fly.

You can swap ammo. Different types of the same weapon I will give you, but I think that makes for increased gameplay decisions rather than allowing you a one size fits all solution. Armour, granted but that's of fairly limited gameplay value, you've got
to admit. Though it was nice playing dress up.

imnar wrote...
being able to swap out 3 guns or change armor at a load out screen is fps inventory. .

Funny that. The typical FPS inventory used to be carrying 9 weapons of increasing power. I'd say that the fps inventory has become an RPG inventory, with experience based incremental progression and everything.

So what you're saying is it's ok to have a poor excuse of something, no matter if the concept of the previous was far better if improved on, as long as it seems like it's there, right? No matter the quality?

The point is that the system itself must have life, you can't just put anything there and slap a label on it, you must do it right... Sure, while me1 didn't vary much aesthetic wise, its many choices and their different tiers(that's the whole point of the "different numbers" you are referring to mind you, they're tiers of the gun, to add even more variation, there is a better version of your gun or armor, remember this as the "different numbers" are making a return in me3).

[aries1001]

How is it dumbing down to make the game's interface more userfriendly? I've played through the demo for ME3 and enjoyed it a lot. The interface was great and accessible. You didn't have to first read through a lot of stuff in a book or go online to learn how to use a spell or talk to your team mates like say in the first Neverwinter Nights. I'm comparing NWN to ME3 because I'm currently playing it and while NWN is a good game, the controls are horrible, imo, of course. I'm all for reading but videogames are a visual medium and should be presented as such.

[furryrage59]

Ziggeh wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

Normal, layman intelligence is the standard, so where did this huge amount of intelligence thing come from?

Stop being overly literal. You don't have a point.

Hang on, you're moaning at me for being literal now?

If people don't understand the words/language they use, maybe they shouldn't use it no?

[furryrage59]

nitefyre410 wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...



Normal, layman intelligence is the standard, so where did this huge amount of intelligence thing come from?

 


Because its the attitude that some RPG players have that  they are smarter than gamers that play other  genre's

when in fact  that is not true.

Of course, you'll get dumb/clever in every genre.

[Atakuma]

From a gameplay mechanics standpoint, ME3 is more complex then ME2.

[Lakan Suko]

Il Divo wrote...

Lakan Suko wrote...

You can't just take a feature our and justify it as "saving time", that's a little extreme, that's what making improvements are for... In the same logic, we should take out dialogue choice(making it a choice however like it is now in me3 is not bad) and combat to save time.

But it's not the same logic. The developers need to perceive a reason why the feature is so bad that they're better off scrapping it. Removal and improvement are both options for any feature. In this case, they chose the former for planetary exploration.

Right, they need a valid reason, which was my point I was stating. Again, I personally think removal is an extreme option better as a last resort, and in light of what happened from me1 to me2, as well as da2, I feel even more inclined to my opinion.

[Alex_SM]

aries1001 wrote...

How is it dumbing down to make the game's interface more userfriendly? I've played through the demo for ME3 and enjoyed it a lot. The interface was great and accessible. You didn't have to first read through a lot of stuff in a book or go online to learn how to use a spell or talk to your team mates like say in the first Neverwinter Nights. I'm comparing NWN to ME3 because I'm currently playing it and while NWN is a good game, the controls are horrible, imo, of course. I'm all for reading but videogames are a visual medium and should be presented as such.

The point is NWN is not a hard game to understand or to master. Is a rather easy one. 

Guys, you should try to play X2/X3, or Stalker. 

[Alex_SM]

Atakuma wrote...

From a gameplay mechanics standpoint, ME3 is more complex then ME2.

Is mostly the same. 

[Lakan Suko]

furryrage59 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...



Normal, layman intelligence is the standard, so where did this huge amount of intelligence thing come from?

 


Because its the attitude that some RPG players have that  they are smarter than gamers that play other  genre's

when in fact  that is not true.

Of course, you'll get dumb/clever in every genre.

Yup, me personally I got my friend who I thought wasn't that bright into Daggerfall, and trust me on this one, not very bright...

It's all on the individual.

[AkiKishi]

I'd say ME1 and ME2 was a case of swings and roundabouts. ME1 was horribly generic, not suprising as it was on one disk. But outside of the plot planets the majority of the game was Ikea pre fab buidlings on random coloured oblong planets.

There was a ton more weapons/armour and general junk in ME1 that never really served any purpose. ME2 trimmed a lot of fat, but in doing so sacrificed the open exploration aspect of the first game.

ME3 looks like it's had to sacrifice a lot more for the "GoW" style combat. Just how much will probably only be seen in the full game.

[Il Divo]

Lakan Suko wrote...

Right, they need a valid reason, which was my point I was stating. Again, I personally think removal is an extreme option better as a last resort, and in light of what happened from me1 to me2, as well as da2, I feel even more inclined to my opinion.

I think it's a combination of factors. The problem is that one person's valid reason will be another person's outrage. But that can be the case with any game. In general, I've seen more critical praise for Baldur's Gate II over BG1. Yet you'll still find people who prefer the original because of the extra emphasis on sandbox gameplay. I, for example, am more inclined to the oppositet stance with ME; I found it to be a much better overall experience, because of the removal of exploration/inventory.

Modifié par Il Divo, 19 février 2012 - 03:51 .

[Exia001]

LOL at OP wanting giant game manuals to determine stuff. The purpose of a game, like ME is not to be mentally challenged, thats for scrabble, games like ME are to be enjoyed, if that means stream lining then thats fine. If anything ME3 is a step up now we have the different armour and weapon upgrades its a step up from ME2 anf more like ME1

[Volus Warlord]

In terms of combat, the basic troopers are less "cannon-fodder"-ish than I've ever seen.

Story? Eh.

[Atakuma]

Alex_SM wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

From a gameplay mechanics standpoint, ME3 is more complex then ME2.

Is mostly the same. 

Deeper skill trees, the addition of armor and weapon mods and things like cooldowns being affected by how much weight you're carrying are not "mostly the same".

Modifié par Atakuma, 19 février 2012 - 03:52 .

[Ziggeh]

Lakan Suko wrote...
So what you're saying is it's ok to have a poor excuse of something, no matter if the concept of the previous was far better if improved on, as long as it seems like it's there, right? No matter the quality?

I'm not sure how you've gotten that from what I said.

What I was saying that removing the onerous elements and still being left with the benefits is my definition of streamlining.

[Ziggeh]

furryrage59 wrote...

Hang on, you're moaning at me for being literal now?

If people don't understand the words/language they use, maybe they shouldn't use it no?

You are attempting to win an argument based on an interpretation we're all aware wasn't being used.

He's right, you now he's right, but still you think you can grasp a victory from straws.

Good luck with that.

[Lakan Suko]

aries1001 wrote...

How is it dumbing down to make the game's interface more userfriendly? I've played through the demo for ME3 and enjoyed it a lot. The interface was great and accessible. You didn't have to first read through a lot of stuff in a book or go online to learn how to use a spell or talk to your team mates like say in the first Neverwinter Nights. I'm comparing NWN to ME3 because I'm currently playing it and while NWN is a good game, the controls are horrible, imo, of course. I'm all for reading but videogames are a visual medium and should be presented as such.

The way I see it, nothing bad with streamlining ui. Now streamlining the actual game? That's a nono, not if it takes away from the game.

[Exia001]

Atakuma wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

From a gameplay mechanics standpoint, ME3 is more complex then ME2.

Is mostly the same. 

Deeper skill trees, the addition of armor and weapon mods and things like cooldowns being affected by how much weight you're carrying are not "mostly the same".

You put it more elequently that I did

[furryrage59]

Ziggeh wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

Hang on, you're moaning at me for being literal now?

If people don't understand the words/language they use, maybe they shouldn't use it no?

You are attempting to win an argument based on an interpretation we're all aware wasn't being used.

He's right, you now he's right, but still you think you can grasp a victory from straws.

Good luck with that.

Great intelligence and normal intelligence is the difference between a dustbinman and a rocket scientist, so no, it's completely wrong.

Your argument doesn't even make any sense, you're berating me for pointing out his massive exaggeration/incorrect useage of a word.

But yeah, good luck with that indeed.

Edit - Not going to waste my breath on your paper thin argument anymore.

Modifié par furryrage59, 19 février 2012 - 03:59 .

[nitefyre410]

furryrage59 wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

Hang on, you're moaning at me for being literal now?

If people don't understand the words/language they use, maybe they shouldn't use it no?

You are attempting to win an argument based on an interpretation we're all aware wasn't being used.

He's right, you now he's right, but still you think you can grasp a victory from straws.

Good luck with that.

Great intelligence and normal intelligence is the difference between a dustbinman and a rocket scientist, so no, it's completely wrong.

Your argument doesn't even make any sense, you're berating me for pointing out his massive exaggeration/incorrect useage of a word.

But yeah, good luck with that indeed.

Edit - Not going to waste my breath on your paper thin argument anymore.

  

LOL   -      

You have yourself a mightly good day.

[Lakan Suko]

Ziggeh wrote...

Lakan Suko wrote...
So what you're saying is it's ok to have a poor excuse of something, no matter if the concept of the previous was far better if improved on, as long as it seems like it's there, right? No matter the quality?

I'm not sure how you've gotten that from what I said.

What I was saying that removing the onerous elements and still being left with the benefits is my definition of streamlining.

Yes, but it is the elements that many of us play the game, and what devs put their blood and sweat into for, as well, you cannot necessarily have the benefits without the elements... You take out the elements, you will not enjoy the same level of benefits as if the elements remained. The mass effect 2 "inventory system" gives much evidence to this, where is the meat in it?