153 réponses à ce sujet

[Crackseed]

BobSmith101 wrote...

crackseed wrote...

No need to get an attitude - this has been a rather pleasant debate so far. 

My point is that we have a good base of comparison for ME1 and ME2. We do not have a good base of comparion for ME3 yet since, you know, we haven't PLAYED past the title screen in ME3, which in ME2 was what lead into the more rich portion of dialogue, choices, etc.

We played the first level of ME3 the equivelent of the Cerberus base.

Your saying that the intro has the same ammount of conversations but comepletely ignoring those that take place in the tutorial level because it does not support your case. 
 

 

I'm not ignoring anything - you're choosing to twist my words. Intro sequence does not equate tutorial portion. Do you remember ME1 having a tutorial section? By your logic, ME1's opening intro was the worst one since all we did was watch the Normandy jump a relay and talk to Anderson/Nihlus for a few mins before dropping into our first actual mission.

Regardless, I'm saving my judgement of ME3 till you know, I play it in full. If that's going to keep you coming back trying to twist my words more, please save your breath as I'm not interested in a pointless forum argument, merely enjoying the debate.

Modifié par crackseed, 19 février 2012 - 07:48 .

[incinerator950]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Sorry that's completely untrue. Me1 had dialogue choices.

 
...Some of which weren't actually choices, but rather the same dialogue option paraphrased three times to present an illusion of choice.

Oh, make no mistake, ME1 was guilty of taking choice away from the player from time to time too, it was just sneakier about it.

Just played ME1 again today and yesterday... There is a lot of time where Shepard no matter which line you take will make him say always tell the same thing. 

Also in ME 2.

[KainrycKarr]

I would like some of you to go look at the first page or two, and see that things can be discussed without being complete douche bags.

I've seen some really really rude replies and frankly, I don't understand why, when every post I made in this thread, including the OP, was pretty reasonable. Some of you apparantly just can't handle discussing things in the demo unless it was OMGDIDYOUSEEHOWFRIKKINAWESOMEITWAS?!

We all have a right to calmly and evenly discuss this stuff, INCLUDING things we didn't like. This was something I didn't like.

[Kidd]

All right, time for some facts in here. I just took notes throughout the entire ME2 intro (Normandy + Lazarus Project sections noted separately and together, depending on your definition of "intro") and the ME3 intro alike. This is it;

ME2 Normandy Auto Dialogue Lines: 2
ME2 Normandy RPG Dialogue Lines: 3
Percentage of auto dialogue: 40%

ME2 Lazarus Project Auto Dialogue Lines: 3
ME2 Lazarus Project RPG Dialogue Lines: 13
Percentage of auto dialogue: 18% at most*
*"At most" since the -numerous- left side wheel options and/or the shuttle scene was omitted

ME2 Full Intro Auto Dialogue Lines: 5
ME2 Full Intro RPG Dialogue Lines: 16
ME2 Full Intro Auto Dialogue percentage: 23% at most

ME3 Earth Auto Dialogue Lines: 32
ME3 Earth RPG Dialogue Lines: 5
Percentage of auto dialogue: 86%

As you can see, this is skewed in ME3's favour in that I didn't count the ME2 shuttle scene, nor did I give any bonuses for all the left wheel side options, investigate options, nor did I give any subtractions for ME3's lack of a single choice with more than two options on the wheel. And even then, the numbers speak for themselves.

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 20 février 2012 - 01:10 .

[wright1978]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

All right, time for some facts in here. I just took notes throughout the entire ME2 intro (Normandy + Lazarus Project sections noted separately and together, depending on your definition of "intro") and the ME3 intro alike. This is it;

ME2 Normandy Auto Dialogue Lines: 2
ME2 Normandy RPG Dialogue Lines: 3
Percentage of auto dialogue: 40%

ME2 Lazarus Project Auto Dialogue Lines: 3
ME2 Lazarus Project RPG Dialogue Lines: 13
Percentage of auto dialogue: 18% at most*
*"At most" since the -numerous- left side wheel options and/or the shuttle scene was omitted

ME2 Full Intro Auto Dialogue Lines: 5
ME2 Full Intro RPG Dialogue Lines: 16
ME2 Full Intro Auto Dialogue percentage: 23% at most

ME3 Earth Auto Dialogue Lines: 32
ME3 Earth RPG Dialogue Lines: 5
Percentage of auto dialogue: 86%

As you can see, this is skewed in ME3's favour in that I didn't count the ME2 shuttle scene, nor did I give any bonuses for all the left wheel side options, investigate options, nor did I give any subtractions for ME3's lack of a single choice with more than two options on the wheel. And even then, the numbers speak for themselves.

Yep and that pretty conclusively shows how horribly much more invasive autoshep is in the me 3 demo intro.

[chengthao]

BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS

its just been confirmed that Mass Effect 3 will come out on March 6 (9), 2012 . . . . . . .




wait until then and than complain

[Armass81]

How many did you have during the normandys destruction in ME2? Did it change anything? This is the exact same thing, and that Surkesh demo just happens to be in the middle of action scene.

Modifié par Armass81, 20 février 2012 - 01:20 .

[Kidd]

Armass81 wrote...

How many did you have during the normandys destruction in ME2? Did it change anything? This is the exact same thing, and that Surkesh demo just happens to be in the middle of action scene.

Check my post 3 posts above yours for exact numbers.

[abnocte]

@KiddDaBeauty
Thanks for those numbers... even if they are scary as hell   

The more I think about the less I understand what Bioware was thinking when they settled for this intro. I even thought that may be the full game will feature a scene like the one in ME2 with Miranda resuming what has happened before... then I realised that the part where Hackett and Anderson talk must be the equivalent to it.... 

[ziloe]

KainrycKarr wrote...

 Exactly 8 conversational choices in the demo. Not 8 seperate conversations with choices, but exactly 8 times during dialogue where you have input, and each time you have only two possible selections.

None of them have any effect, whatsoever, on the conversation.

Please, Priestly, Woo, ANYONE, please tell me this isn't what to expect from the retail release.




....Please?

Not even that. You can't even lose the last mission. If the female Krogan's barrier goes to zero, it stays there. You can't lose. 

Modifié par ziloe, 20 février 2012 - 09:32 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

abnocte wrote...

@KiddDaBeauty
Thanks for those numbers... even if they are scary as hell   

The more I think about the less I understand what Bioware was thinking when they settled for this intro. I even thought that may be the full game will feature a scene like the one in ME2 with Miranda resuming what has happened before... then I realised that the part where Hackett and Anderson talk must be the equivalent to it.... 

This is a little off-topic, but I have to wonder how much that offscreen exchange will be affected by imported savegames.

Also, for some reason they cut the part of the intro cinematic that shows the shuttle leaving the docking hangar. Kind of a weird cut tbh.

[abnocte]

@Mr. MannlyMan

Well, in the demo their exchange only covers losing contact with some bases and something big being in the long range scanners. In no moment they reflect on Shepard actions in previous games except for a line saying that Shepard warned them.
Miranda, on the other hand, explained "where we were at" througth Shepards actions in ME ( saving the Citadel-even saving the Council- humanity has the trust of the entire galaxy... )

I just watched the footage from the leaked demo ( no danger of runing into spoilers now ... ), I guess they cut that part with the shuttle because they thougt it didn't add that much to the intro, and removing it will make it shorter. 

Armass81 wrote...

How many did you have during the normandys destruction in ME2? Did it change anything? This is the exact same thing, and that Surkesh demo just happens to be in the middle of action scene.

Yes, it changed something.
How Shepard deals with the situation.

And so you better understand what I'm talking about I will quote myself:

abnocte wrote...

As I'm reading this, it is obvious that we are talking about different things when we use the word "choice".

Choice -> game outcome
Choice -> Shepard personality outcome

We all know that choosing different dialog options in ME2 won't change the fact that Shepard gets spaced. But that's not the kind of choice people complaining about the intro are talking about.

We are talking about choice in our Shepard's character/behaviour when facing a situation, and the fact that auto-dialogue is going to remove that option from us, leading Paragon Shepard to act Renegade or Renegade Shepard to act Paragon without our consent.

I don't give a good damm **** about different outcomes if I can't have different Shepards, because if Shepard has always the same personality choosing one outcome over other is nothing but metagaming.

I don't want to metagame, I want to roleplay.

Modifié par abnocte, 20 février 2012 - 10:46 .

[Gold Dragon]

abnocte wrote...
I don't want to metagame I want to roleplay.

+1

[Kidd]

abnocte wrote...

I don't want to metagame, I want to roleplay.

Beautifully put!

[FFinfinity1]

KainrycKarr wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

 Exactly 8 conversational choices in the demo. Not 8 seperate conversations with choices, but exactly 8 times during dialogue where you have input, and each time you have only two possible selections.

None of them have any effect, whatsoever, on the conversation.

Please, Priestly, Woo, ANYONE, please tell me this isn't what to expect from the retail release.



....Please?

Yeah, in the game you also teleport from Earth to SurKesh.

You know, sarcasm is only funny if it's witty. This was not.

It is, obviously, a demo. However, each self-contained mission in said demo had very, very, very little influenceable dialogue. I don't care about what happens between Earth and SurKesh, we'll see all that on the 6th.

But in these two missions, is this SERIOUSLY the only dialogue options they put in?

Idk that was pretty funny

anyways they cut the Sur'Kesh demo in half and you could talk alot more and explore. Basically they just put in all the combat parts of the game. Just google the Beta Leak Demo Gameplay to see what I mean, you have a full conversation with the princess and mordin before Cerberus shows up.

[3rdMillhouse]

KainrycKarr wrote...

 Exactly 8 conversational choices in the demo. Not 8 seperate conversations with choices, but exactly 8 times during dialogue where you have input, and each time you have only two possible selections.

None of them have any effect, whatsoever, on the conversation.

Please, Priestly, Woo, ANYONE, please tell me this isn't what to expect from the retail release.



....Please?

It's a demo. I assume you're familiar of that concept, right?

[Nima55]

android654 wrote...

crackseed wrote...

android654 wrote...

crackseed wrote...

snip

.

snip

snip

All we know is that he's reporting to Earth, but by omitting canon things they're being neglectful with their story. No one believes Shepard that the reapers are real, but all of a sudden the Alliance does. Shepard committed genocide and received no repercussions for it? Even though Shepard turned himself in because of war crimes he's given freedom to roam about with supervision from one soldier? Anderson left his position on the Citadel to go work for the military again? Shepard has no rank but still has an office at an Alliance military base? 

All of these questions and probably many more all needed to be introduced to as soon as possible since they're integral to the open they already created. Leaving out so many things that are important is negligent, and negligent writing is bad writing.

*chough*  

[Draconis6666]

It's been stated multiple times in multiple places that Dialogue was cut from the earth intro level of the demo to keep down file size to keep the total demo under the 2 gig limit required for demos by Xbox live.

[Rickin10]

Draconis6666 wrote...

It's been stated multiple times in multiple places that Dialogue was cut from the earth intro level of the demo to keep down file size to keep the total demo under the 2 gig limit required for demos by Xbox live.

Oh dear, someone is either ill informed or  has not kept up to date.  The Intro in the demo, with the exeption of one sentence spoken by Anderson, is exactly the same in the full game.

[Draconis6666]

yes your correct I was thinking of Sur'Kresh where tons of dialogue was cut.

[abnocte]

Nima55 wrote...
*quote snip*
*chough*  

The first time I heard that line I assumed that it would be played if we import a game with Arrival, and I'm glad for it. But if that's the only difference, it is not much of an improvement.

Let's just hope that they really cut lots of stuff in the intro.... but my experience with demos says otherwise.

[Phategod1]

KainrycKarr wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

 Exactly 8 conversational choices in the demo. Not 8 seperate conversations with choices, but exactly 8 times during dialogue where you have input, and each time you have only two possible selections.

None of them have any effect, whatsoever, on the conversation.

Please, Priestly, Woo, ANYONE, please tell me this isn't what to expect from the retail release.



....Please?

Yeah, in the game you also teleport from Earth to SurKesh.

You know, sarcasm is only funny if it's witty. This was not.

It is, obviously, a demo. However, each self-contained mission in said demo had very, very, very little influenceable dialogue. I don't care about what happens between Earth and SurKesh, we'll see all that on the 6th.

But in these two missions, is this SERIOUSLY the only dialogue options they put in?

Neither is you OP do you really think there going all out as far as dialouge choices and consequences on a demo. Sometime I wish they had not released the Demo till the game came out Way to much b!tch1ng.

[Biotic Sage]

KainrycKarr wrote...

 Exactly 8 conversational choices in the demo. Not 8 seperate conversations with choices, but exactly 8 times during dialogue where you have input, and each time you have only two possible selections.

None of them have any effect, whatsoever, on the conversation.

Please, Priestly, Woo, ANYONE, please tell me this isn't what to expect from the retail release.

....Please?

Go back to the ME2 intro and count how many conversation choices there were in that.  Did you like that game?

[wright1978]

Biotic Sage wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

 Exactly 8 conversational choices in the demo. Not 8 seperate conversations with choices, but exactly 8 times during dialogue where you have input, and each time you have only two possible selections.

None of them have any effect, whatsoever, on the conversation.

Please, Priestly, Woo, ANYONE, please tell me this isn't what to expect from the retail release.

....Please?

Go back to the ME2 intro and count how many conversation choices there were in that.  Did you like that game?

As KiddaBeauty's analysis showed 18% autodialogue in ME2 intro sequences versus 86% autodialogue in ME3 earth sequence. Shephard spouting left, right and centre without player control in ME3 on that scale is bad, very bad.