157 réponses à ce sujet

[VanDraegon]

It is going to be many, many long years before any mmo is a better rpg experience than a single player rpg like Dragon Age or any rpg before it.

[Kaosgirl]

TheChemicals wrote...
This is exactly my point. How does a game that is traditional and sticks to the core and is just another regurgitated rpg of Bioware types get such hi ratings. A game that is rated a 9 and 9.5 should have some innovation and original story. The game is good but it is not a 9 or a classic. Its a repeat of older games by bioware.

One man's cliche is another man's archetype, I suppose.  I saw 'inspiration' from the classics, but nothing I'd call outright regurgitation.  At least, not without first reducing the elements to their most simplistic forms - and if I start engaging in that kind of behavior,  then *everything* younger than the ancient greeks becomes 'regurgitation.'

Novelty for it's own sake is as much a failure as tradition for it's own sake.  

[marshalleck]

At least "tradition for it's own sake" is consistent with itself.

[KalosCast]

I'm the RPG Templar, get the hell back in your tower.

[TheChemicals]

KalosCast wrote...

I'm the RPG Templar, get the hell back in your tower.

lol

[Ghandorian]

When I was a teen LOTR was just some dusty old book by an english guy and a low budget cartoon movie. I read all kinds of Fantasy by Hickmen/Weiss / Donaldson / Brooks / Salvatore . And more recent stuff like Jordan and Williams. Nobody hardly ever talked much about LOTR. It wasn't until these new movies came out that people started comparing everything to it.



the only reason I knew what is was, a few People compared Donaldson's work to it. Greatest tale told since Tolkien bla bla. But over 20 years nobody seemed to care much about it. Now you cant say Fantasy without someone saying, Tolkien ripoff.

[Wazzler]

One of the better posts on here. All good points, even if I don't agree with all of them.

[RampantBeaver]

When i said that ill drop this game for something better, i was asked by alot of people on this forum "what is better" and im sure it was toned with a smart arse sense but ill tell you what could be better- Alpha- spy rpg. Many rpg games are coming out and also mmo's.

Hmm a game thats being worked on by the team that brought us KOTOR II and Neverwinter Nights 2. Two games that were appaulingly bad and in my opinion managed to ruin a franchise.

In both the examples above Obsidian have tried to follow in BW's footsteps and failed.

I think i'll wait for the reviews to come to see if Alpha Protocol is any good. Hardly that original. Deus ex anyone?

Modifié par RampantBeaver, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:45 .

[Drake Sigar]

TheChemicals wrote...

This is exactly my point. How does a game that is traditional and sticks to the core and is just another regurgitated rpg of Bioware types get such hi ratings. A game that is rated a 9 and 9.5 should have some innovation and original story. The game is good but it is not a 9 or a classic. Its a repeat of older games by bioware.

The traditional medieval RPG is so grounded in Tolkien's vision that at this point it's hard to imagine us accepting anything else. While Dragon Age is very familiar, it does make changes (a complex dwarven society being one of my favourites) that I feel are significant enough to make it fresh. Or partially anyway. Ignoring all that though, the mere fact that many of us were engaged until the credits flew by after a 50+ hour adventure (add another 50 hours or so because it demands to be played twice), says this game is superior to the majority of pap the magazines are throwing out 90% for.

[Riddley313]

0mar wrote...


Unoriginal? Go look it up in a dictionary. Having a dragon s the big bad, rather than some machiavelian wizzard, IS fresh and new. When's the last time the main boss in a RPG was like that? ... I'm waiting.....

I can think of one - Legacy of the Wizard...an old game, but good.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_the_Wizard

As for the OP, I agree with some of it. Overall, I can appreciate the story and more specifcically the characters. The lore and backstory is very well done and interesting. In particular I loved how dwarves were presented in the game. It certainly has it's fair share of faults, specifically elements of the combat system, and a lot of questionable abilities between the different classes.

I see this game as a great beginning to a promosing franchise. However, a sprinkling of short-length DLC every few months isn't going to keep many interested. I think it's safe to say most people want actual exansion packs with a decent amount of content.

Modifié par Riddley313, 26 novembre 2009 - 12:28 .

[Anarchosyn]

TheChemicals wrote...


Who needs a story when you have characters, Dragon age gives you characters with substance to mask a poor storyline. The draw in replay and funfactor for Dragon age...and this is truth for those of the grain, is in its characters. You want to interact with them and manipulate possiblities with them. you want to romance them and hate them and see how they react to many different facets of behaviors and choices you make. All the while, flying through a story so unoriginal and regurgitated that it makes super mario games look innovative and breakthru. Dragon ages amazing characters coupled with the promise of continuation via dowloadable content make this a comfy nesting place for the hardcore rpger and a lockdown for the casual player.

I really am enjoying my first play through of Dragon Age but I have to agree whole heartedly with the above. Ancient evil rises, under dog must rise to reunite the lands, etc. I never had any high hopes for the story but they had to try hard to keep it this cliched.

 

[eternalnightmare13]

TheChemicals wrote...

I work for Software informer.- Rpg wizard is a title and a program i detailed and produced.

Im sorry if i offended your game. I can see how much you like it that youd disrespect a human being for it. My thread is a rant not a genuine article, if you want articles i have a few on the escapist website.

See, he's not a troll - he's a spammer...<_<

[Raxxman]

I've also got to weigh in on the genericness of the story at times. It doesn't help that there's a very limited variety of opponents who don't offer much difference in the way of combat, Hurlocks, Genlocks, Bandits, Skeletons all fight and die the same way.



I though the game took a lot from the Witchers style (being a polish book and not just an RPG) and added a pinch of Tolkien (many in the Darkspawn, they just look and feel like slightly resigned Orcs from the LOTR movies), with a vague sprinkling of Christianity (Tolkien was very against putting any religion into his stories).



Now why I expect to see similarities in games, I think at times the game came across very 'borrowed' Take that there are elves who live in a quarter stricken with poverty and looked down upon by the humans, just like in the Witcher.



Personally I for one prefer Obsidians story telling over Biowares. Bioware have a habit of dumping the story heavily on you at the start, sending you down a narrow channel for a brief while before dropping you off kind of in the wilderness for most of the game, where the story seems to suddenly take a back seat until you're funneled down the ending path. Like for me, the threat of the darkspawn diminished as the game progressed, I rarely fought them, when I did fight them because I was more powerful I hammered them from one side of the map to the other. The focus moved away from the spawn, and they ride backseat for a lot of the game.



In comparison Obsidian often tell the story in layers, with more being revealed as you progress. The key issue seems always close to heart and drives the story throughout the game.



That said I really though Mass Effect was a big step forward in terms of selling a story, DA:O feels like a step backwards in my opinion.

[Kaosgirl]

RampantBeaver wrote...

When i said that ill drop this game for something better, i was asked by alot of people on this forum "what is better" and im sure it was toned with a smart arse sense but ill tell you what could be better- Alpha- spy rpg. Many rpg games are coming out and also mmo's.

Hmm a game thats being worked on by the team that brought us KOTOR II and Neverwinter Nights 2. Two games that were appaulingly bad and in my opinion managed to ruin a franchise.

Obsidian have thus far yet to make an rpg i consider borderline good, both oblivion and fallout 3 were repetative clones of the other. Plus in both the examples above they tried to follow in BW's footsteps and failed.

I think i'll wait for the reviews to come to see if Alpha Protocol is any good. Hardly that original. Deus ex anyone?

Meh. Deus Ex was more cyberpunk, Alpha Protocol seems more 'James Bond' at first glance.  Call it a Top Secret ripoff instead

[DragonRageGT]

Why are people saying that Bethesda's game are Obsidian's? Although FO3 and TES4 are indeed clones of each other. I really liked NWN 2 story but hated how Obsidian ruined the game by using NWN v1.0 as basis i/o the lasted patched version and how they took over 1 year to fix mplayer issues.. if they are fixed yet... I gave up waiting long ago...

[Sylixe]

An absurdly long and well thought out post that TOTALLY falls flat on its bum at the end.  Why do i say this?  Well the author forgot to include exactly what they think is their perfect RPG.  When he comes here and tells me which one it is and why it is i might give him some credit.  Until then he is just a whiner with no substance to support his accusations.

Modifié par Sylixe, 26 novembre 2009 - 01:49 .

[VanDraegon]

Anarchosyn wrote...

TheChemicals wrote...


Who needs a story when you have characters, Dragon age gives you characters with substance to mask a poor storyline. The draw in replay and funfactor for Dragon age...and this is truth for those of the grain, is in its characters. You want to interact with them and manipulate possiblities with them. you want to romance them and hate them and see how they react to many different facets of behaviors and choices you make. All the while, flying through a story so unoriginal and regurgitated that it makes super mario games look innovative and breakthru. Dragon ages amazing characters coupled with the promise of continuation via dowloadable content make this a comfy nesting place for the hardcore rpger and a lockdown for the casual player.

I really am enjoying my first play through of Dragon Age but I have to agree whole heartedly with the above. Ancient evil rises, under dog must rise to reunite the lands, etc. I never had any high hopes for the story but they had to try hard to keep it this cliched.

 

Perhaps you should ask Bioware for an rpg where an ancient evil rises to threaten the world again and heros go forth to fight to save their world and you sell them supplies for their journey. That should break the mold for ya...

Modifié par VanDraegon, 26 novembre 2009 - 01:57 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Gecon wrote...
Read the original Conan stories. Earlier than LotR, huge world setting, very suspenseful, and brilliant storytelling. Yes it has no halflings, not even elves, but its much, much better literature. Now compare this stuff with what LotR gives you. I certainly dont know how I managed to read this book at all. Suspense ? More like: I cant believe this, the halflings are STILL on the way to Mordor, does ANYTHING ever happen here ?

Bollocks! LORS is a billion tiems better story than Conan. Conan is nothing more than male wish fulfillment. A muscleed manly man wading trough whole armies and getting all the girls. Conan is mediocre at best.

LOTR is far deeper than any other fantasy, simple becaause a LOT more thought has been put into it. Every event, every action in the story makes sense and has it's place.

At heart, Alistair makes for a very poor hero. Whiny, incompetent, and self-serving, he's a disgrace to the Grey Wardens. I can see why Duncan isn't so very proud of him. It's a good thing he isn't the actual hero of this game.

Allistair makes a great hero. A zillion times better than Loghain could ever hope to be. He's not whiny or incompetent and anyone claiming otherwise is out of touch with reality, living in his own dreamworld with a harem of Loghains.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 26 novembre 2009 - 07:34 .

[Auraad]

DA:O won't be a classic game ... for this, it lacks too much.

Compared to BG: BG revived the already dying CRPG genre, making it even better (epic, cool characters and NPC interaction and a vast world to explore)

NWN: I only say toolset and DM client - both MP ready (!) (that really was something original!)

DA:O ... hm, what's really cool and innovative here, which "thing" will make me think of it in 5 years ... the costly DLCs? hardly. The story? go read LotR again. The soundtrack? listen to LotR and BG music. The game mechanics? incomplete at best. The NPCs? Yes - they are memorable, but so are Imoen, Deekin and a zillion other NPCs of all Bioware games. The game world? It's dark, all right, but that's about it. The graphics? I don't think so. So, what's left?

The hype? DEFINITIVELY! The pre-release hype for this game was just ... incredible. And, seening the outcome, not really worth it.

However, it's still the best RPG of these days ... :-|

[Gecon]

If you want MMOs to be like Singleplayer, Biowares upcoming MMO "Star Wars: The old Republic" will be a good bet. Personally I'm confused by what you can read about it why this game is even a MMO, but meh.

[Gecon]

Auraad wrote...

DA:O won't be a classic game ... for this, it lacks too much.

Aaaaah yes.

And this: 640 KB main memory will be enough to do anything you would ever want to do. (Bill Gates)

[Gecon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Bollocks!

Sums up what is to be said about what you wrote afterwards:

LORS is a billion tiems better story than Conan. Conan is nothing more than male wish fulfillment. A muscleed manly man wading trough whole armies and getting all the girls. Conan is mediocre at best.

LOTR is far deeper than any other fantasy, simple becaause a LOT more thought has been put into it. Every event, every action in the story makes sense and has it's place.

Yeah, yeah, right. Have you even READ the original Conan stories ? Or do you substitute from the Comics or worst the movie ?

[Wolfva2]

Ghandorian wrote...

When I was a teen LOTR was just some dusty old book by an english guy and a low budget cartoon movie. I read all kinds of Fantasy by Hickmen/Weiss / Donaldson / Brooks / Salvatore . And more recent stuff like Jordan and Williams. Nobody hardly ever talked much about LOTR. It wasn't until these new movies came out that people started comparing everything to it.

the only reason I knew what is was, a few People compared Donaldson's work to it. Greatest tale told since Tolkien bla bla. But over 20 years nobody seemed to care much about it. Now you cant say Fantasy without someone saying, Tolkien ripoff.

Heh...nothing Ralph Bakchi did was low budget <LOL>.  Fact is, that's why he didn't get to do the 3rd movie (which was low budget), he went way over budget with the first two.  A lot of people talked about LOTR, it's the basis for modern fantasy, including Dungeons and Dragons.  Back in the 1960's folks walked around with "FRODO LIVES!" buttons even.  Led Zepelin and Rush both had albums and individual songs that involved Lord of the Rings.  For instance, Zepelin's song "Ramble On" has the line, "T'was in the darkest depths of Mordor, I met a girl so fair.
But Gollum, and
the evil one crept up and slipped away with her, her, her....yeah."  So, alot of people were talking about LOTR.  Just not that many in your circle of friends.

Bottom line with the OP, he's just another person who thinks that his personal opinion is more then just that, his opinion.  He beleives that it is the ONE...TRUTH...and as the High Priest of RPGs (or the RPG Wizard I should say) it is his job to spread the Gospel and smite those unbelievers with the righteous wrath due them for not accepting HIS word.  Some people really need to take their ego off the pedastal and realize that an opinion is only important to one person....he who holds that opinion.   

[LethalBlade]

6 pages in, so where's this 'RPG wizard' that you speak of, OP?



Do you have a link?

[Arcane Fury]

I thought Lohgain was a pretty dull villain/anti-hero. I really didn't feel anything for him. The story and setting couldn't be more cliche, but the characters saved it for me. I did think the ending was well done though, with its multiple outcomes.