55 réponses à ce sujet

[Aeshyn Stormsinger]

copernicus__ wrote...

Yep, thank you for agreeing with me even me being a little "difficult to handle" aye?
Now..EA do somethin' already!

Neither of us were difficult, .  I was just saying that a disc check is a protection measure, they needed to have SOME form of it, and out of other possibilities a disc check is the better choice.  No DRM at all is great, but they need to protect their profits too.

And our idea would be something for Bioware to add to the config tool, EA just publishes the game and has some input.

Modifié par Aeshyn Stormsinger, 25 novembre 2009 - 02:32 .

[Simon.Omega]

DRM always fails. And can always be circumvented. Encryption and Keys are fine enough.

I use Digital copies because I hate CD check. I use Linux and don't need anything more than USB drives... I mean come on...

Modifié par Simon.Omega, 25 novembre 2009 - 02:41 .

[Aeshyn Stormsinger]

Yes, there are a lot of occasions where DRM doesn't work, but there are still a few people out there that don't know how to download cracks or get them working, run torrents, or what 'warez' is. Or people who spam on torrent forums asking how to get it working, get their comments loaded with negative votes and hidden, and repeat asking. It's those people the DRM stops, so it does have a limited functionality of sorts. Sort of.

Modifié par Aeshyn Stormsinger, 25 novembre 2009 - 02:48 .

[Matthew Young CT]

"Neither of us were difficult, . I was just saying that a disc check is a protection measure, they needed to have SOME form of it, and out of other possibilities a disc check is the better choice. No DRM at all is great, but they need to protect their profits too."



It would be understandable if it actually worked. A disk check is certainly better than the online activation nonsense, but it's still a waste of time and kind of annoying. Constantly changing disks because I often play 2 games at once is annoying. Well, it would be annoying if I didn't use no-cds.



"And our idea would be something for Bioware to add to the config tool, EA just publishes the game and has some input."



Bioware can't just remove the DRM if they feel like it. They would get sued so fast their heads would spin. EA OKs it or it doesn't happen.

[AngelofDeth99]

You can always download an unofficial "patch" to get rid of it... Or maybe a couple years down the line BW will patch it out. I know they did that for NWN, not sure if they've done that since though. I wouldn't count on it in any case though, lol.

[Aeshyn Stormsinger]

Matthew Young CT wrote...
Bioware can't just remove the DRM if they feel like it. They would get sued so fast their heads would spin. EA OKs it or it doesn't happen.

I didn't say they could just remove it, I was saying they'd be the ones to do it if the move to do so went ahead.

[Nosisab_KenKeleh]

Should be plain simple, at this point what is the point to continuously check if have I the DVD?

Now I want to let the original copy quietly stored in it's (not metallic case although I bought the CE...) case and do not risk scratching it every time I have to take it, place in the machine, play, remove it, store...



Should I go piracy to play the holly game even having a legal copy? is this the producers wishes from me?



Please don't tell I should keep it in the tray all the time, if you can do it better to you, not to me.

[JironGhrad]

I'm sure eventually they'll remove the disc check. As I recall though, it took something like 5 1/2 years to remove the Neverwinter Nights disc check (I believe it was in patch 1.60 which would have been around mid/late-2007 if I'm remembering correctly). Likewise, the Witcher didn't have the CD check removed until the final 1.5 patch (I bought a copy of the Witcher Enhanced edition back in September and v1.4 still required the disc, only after patching to v1.5 did the check depart).

[boglavs]

I'm sure that legal owners of the game are not breaking the law if they use a mini-image of the DVD mounted in daemon tools lite (free version). There is such a thing that replaces the need to use the DVD, and also have all the original files of the game.

[Nosisab_KenKeleh]

boglavs wrote...

I'm sure that legal owners of the game are not breaking the law if they use a mini-image of the DVD mounted in daemon tools lite (free version). There is such a thing that replaces the need to use the DVD, and also have all the original files of the game.

That's the point boglavs, a simple mini-image may do the trick (and it does), so it's just an annoyance that affects legal users a lot more than the pirates ones.

And since I'm not sure it is 'legal'... actually is more than just an annoyance.

Modifié par Nosisab_KenKeleh, 13 décembre 2009 - 12:59 .

[fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels]

Nosisab_KenKeleh wrote...

Should be plain simple, at this point what is the point to continuously check if have I the DVD?

They are digging they own grave, here is the point.

There is even a single protected game that has not yet been pirated? The answer is no.
Are DRM & co. discuraging piratery? The answer is no.
The only people to get the protection are the legit user, that's obvious, and so after pay a lot they wine about the annoyng thing looking for solutions that, of course, are opposed by those who supports the DRM.

As a matter of fact i think Mass Effect and Spore should have taught a great lesson, but I see that this is not. What you can do? Let them be happy, convinced by some PR that without the DRM content the game will be pirated, and let the dissatisfied user find out the game in fact was pirated after 1 hour of the official relase, complaining how unfair this system is...

Modifié par fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels, 13 décembre 2009 - 02:42 .

[JironGhrad]

fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels wrote...

Nosisab_KenKeleh wrote...

Should be plain simple, at this point what is the point to continuously check if have I the DVD?

They are digging they own grave, here is the point.

There is even a single protected game that has not yet been pirated? The answer is no.
Are DRM & co. discuraging piratery? The answer is no.
The only people to get the protection are the legit user, that's obvious, and so after pay a lot they wine about the annoyng thing looking for solutions that, of course, are opposed by those who supports the DRM.

As a matter of fact i think Mass Effect and Spore should have taught a great lesson, but I see that this is not. What you can do? Let them be happy, convinced by some PR that without the DRM content the game will be pirated, and let the dissatisfied user find out the game in fact was pirated after 1 hour of the official relase, complaining how unfair this system is...

Your argument falls flat as you clearly don't understand the point behind DRM. The idea isn't so much that it prevents piracy (even the companies know it actually doesn't), but rather that it slows the pirates a little bit and it provides a very CLEAR indication of criminal activity. There are lots of countries out there with very sketchy copy protection laws (certain parts of the Middle East such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates allow people to buy something like a cd and burn as many copies as they wish and sell them from a store front) but even there in most cases circumventing DRM is a crime.

[fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels]

JironGhrad wrote...

Your argument falls flat as you clearly don't understand the point behind DRM. The idea isn't so much that it prevents piracy (even the companies know it actually doesn't), but rather that it slows the pirates a little bit and it provides a very CLEAR indication of criminal activity. There are lots of countries out there with very sketchy copy protection laws (certain parts of the Middle East such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates allow people to buy something like a cd and burn as many copies as they wish and sell them from a store front) but even there in most cases circumventing DRM is a crime.

I'm sorry man, but... i simply can't agree.

First, this doesn't slow anything, because every big game out here is cloned/unprotected/whatever 1 or 2 day after official relase (and some time even before).
You don't need to be a "pirate" to know, just search using google and read the sea of results.

Second, i doesn't provide any "clear" indication, because legit user do the check, illegit user will stay in the shadow: what do you know?
Even more: legit user complain about DRM because is a restriction, illegit user will never know or complain about DRM problem because they will never face that problem... do you understand, righ?

So, i'm a legit user, i brought many games over the years and what i think is: if the money wasted in copy protection will be used to make better game, all of us will take benefit, companies included.
Also my DVD reader will not crap imself after some week of costant playcheck.
Piracy is not a matter of "crime and criminal", is a matter of social behavior [/i]and price versus product quality.[i]

Modifié par fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels, 13 décembre 2009 - 09:28 .

[JironGhrad]

See, I completely disagree. There are people who'd pirate DA if it was $5... that's a social behavior only to the extent that humans are basically selfish and only the "social contract" of laws ensures the "right" of people to express themselves as they wish. As to not providing a clear indication, it surely does. If you've bypassed the DRM, you're commiting a criminal act. Even as a "legitimate user", if you use a cracked exe or whatnot, that violates the terms of service that accompany all software products (which are legal binding documents and could be used as such) should the company care to follow that line of reasoning. There are laws that apply with punishments including but not limited to fines and/or jail time.

[fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels]

JironGhrad wrote...

If you've bypassed the DRM, you're commiting a criminal act. Even as a "legitimate user", if you use a cracked exe or whatnot, that violates the terms of service that accompany all software products (which are legal binding documents and could be used as such) should the company care to follow that line of reasoning.

What part of this makes users more willing to buying original product?  
So is what i've already told you: they are digging a grave. And a deep one as far as i can see.

Let's see how much time it takes to them for remove this annoyng thing, so my dvd reader will be silent again and i can enjoy the game i brought  

[JironGhrad]

fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels wrote...

JironGhrad wrote...

If you've bypassed the DRM, you're commiting a criminal act. Even as a "legitimate user", if you use a cracked exe or whatnot, that violates the terms of service that accompany all software products (which are legal binding documents and could be used as such) should the company care to follow that line of reasoning.

What part of this makes users more willing to buying original product?  
So is what i've already told you: they are digging a grave. And a deep one as far as i can see.

Let's see how much time it takes to them for remove this annoyng thing, so my dvd reader will be silent again and i can enjoy the game i brought  

If you're all that concerned about it, you can simply reinstall the game using the EADM version.  Uses the CD key from any PC version (Steam, Impulse, D2D or DVD) and no disc check.

[fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels]

That's not the point man, and you know quite well i think

Treats your customers like pirates, and sooner or later they will think they really are.



My two cent.

[JironGhrad]

Honestly as DRM goes this is the least intrusive I've seen in quite a while. And I don't really think I want to go back to "look up the 5th letter of the 3rd line of 4th paragraph on page 291 and use the blue filter to read the correct decode."

[Creesen]

I have no disk check, I bought my copy at Target.

[B33ker]

fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels wrote...

JironGhrad wrote...

If you've bypassed the DRM, you're commiting a criminal act. Even as a "legitimate user", if you use a cracked exe or whatnot, that violates the terms of service that accompany all software products (which are legal binding documents and could be used as such) should the company care to follow that line of reasoning.

What part of this makes users more willing to buying original product?  
So is what i've already told you: they are digging a grave. And a deep one as far as i can see.

Let's see how much time it takes to them for remove this annoyng thing, so my dvd reader will be silent again and i can enjoy the game i brought  

Well your DVD should be silent all the time, as the game only does a quick check to see if the disc is there and doesn't keep running.  If it does, then something else is at work.

If you're too lazy to put a disc in to play a game, how can you get through a day if you have to open a door or move a chair?  It was known before the game even shipped what the DRM was going to be, if you didn't like it, you shouldn't have bought the game.

DRM isn't going to go away, and nothing anyone can say about it will matter.  They have a right to try and protect their investment from piracy, and even something as simple as a disc check does help in that respect.

BioWare did you a favor by using only a simple disc check, and you should be thankful for that.  It's a hell of a lot better than using SecuROM to mess with the drivers on your computer and possibly ruin something.

BioWare is in the right here, and I support what they did and how they did it.  This game is worth taking 30 seconds to grab the disc and put it in to play.

Modifié par B33ker, 14 décembre 2009 - 08:19 .

[JironGhrad]

B33ker wrote...

fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels wrote...

JironGhrad wrote...

If you've bypassed the DRM, you're commiting a criminal act. Even as a "legitimate user", if you use a cracked exe or whatnot, that violates the terms of service that accompany all software products (which are legal binding documents and could be used as such) should the company care to follow that line of reasoning.

What part of this makes users more willing to buying original product?  
So is what i've already told you: they are digging a grave. And a deep one as far as i can see.

Let's see how much time it takes to them for remove this annoyng thing, so my dvd reader will be silent again and i can enjoy the game i brought  

Well your DVD should be silent all the time, as the game only does a quick check to see if the disc is there and doesn't keep running.  If it does, then something else is at work.

If you're too lazy to put a disc in to play a game, how can you get through a day if you have to open a door or move a chair?  It was known before the game even shipped what the DRM was going to be, if you didn't like it, you shouldn't have bought the game.

DRM isn't going to go away, and nothing anyone can say about it will matter.  They have a right to try and protect their investment from piracy, and even something as simple as a disc check does help in that respect.

BioWare did you a favor by using only a simple disc check, and you should be thankful for that.  It's a hell of a lot better than using SecuROM to mess with the drivers on your computer and possibly ruin something.

BioWare is in the right here, and I support what they did and how they did it.  This game is worth taking 30 seconds to grab the disc and put it in to play.

Well said.

[fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels]

B33ker wrote...
If you're too lazy to put a disc in to play a game, how can you get through a day if you have to open a door or move a chair?  It was known before the game even shipped what the DRM was going to be, if you didn't like it, you shouldn't have bought the game.

That's one point i quote at 100%, and that's the main reason Mass Effect and Spore should have teached something...

DRM isn't going to go away, and nothing anyone can say about it will matter.

Well man... if you kick customer like this in your activity, is no surprise your store get empty after a short while... customer always decide how market should be.
The more people buy, the more what you do is appealing..... now what i remember is piracy go rampage for the last few years..... this is an hard-point, you know?

BioWare did you a favor by using only a simple disc check, and you should be thankful for that.  It's a hell of a lot better than using SecuROM to mess with the drivers on your computer and possibly ruin something.

Yes, is better no intrusive protection. But what is the mean of disck check, if the only one to get the check are legal user? No one can answer, it seem...

BioWare is in the right here, and I support what they did and how they did it.  This game is worth taking 30 seconds to grab the disc and put it in to play.

There is not bad or good, no right or wrong. Nothing like absolute good or evil like an RPG gameplay. Here you will find some people who buy a product and don't want restriction, not because they think BioWare should let piracy go rampage, but because what they are doing to block or lessen piracy will do the exact opposite.


Should i have not bought the game, you say. Well I am here to say that since I bought the game, it is my right to claim that must not be there any annoyances that pirates have not   


One last thing:
Good games come from good sell ratio.
Are you sure every customer that is not happy with protection must not buy the game, instead of ask to remove DRM from it?
Think well, before aswer, because i'm pretty sure you want a good game next time 

Modifié par fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:21 .

[crusader_bin]

We all know it is damn easy to get rid of the cd-check in most games... Sad thing that we actually bought the game and must use barely legal (or nonlegal?) means. I prefer to play with cd in actually, less problems with patching later on. Though games like Baldurs Gate 2(yeah, I still play it. Big Picture mod, over 20 gb's of game files and mods ^^) or C&C3, that have no new patches, i use no-cd exes with those...



But games like StarCraft and Diablo 2? There were patches that removed cd-checks for those! Big win for everyone Now you can even use cd-key to DOWNLOAD those game directly from blizzard. So... This CAN be done.

[deus_]

JironGhrad wrote...

See, I completely disagree. There are people who'd pirate DA if it was $5... that's a social behavior only to the extent that humans are basically selfish and only the "social contract" of laws ensures the "right" of people to express themselves as they wish. As to not providing a clear indication, it surely does. If you've bypassed the DRM, you're commiting a criminal act. Even as a "legitimate user", if you use a cracked exe or whatnot, that violates the terms of service that accompany all software products (which are legal binding documents and could be used as such) should the company care to follow that line of reasoning. There are laws that apply with punishments including but not limited to fines and/or jail time.

And this is justified how?

DRM have gone beyond the copyright issue, into my rights on how i want to utilize the product i paid for.

Which im glad to say Norwegian consumer laws and our version of the DMCA still protects.

wiki the de-css case and the scandinavia itunes debacle.



As for the "to lazy to insert cd" I travel around with a laptop, and its kinda annoying that you need to bring with me sections of my game library.

When i traveled home for Christmas i did remember to bring my DA case, but to my annoyance disc 1 wasn't in it, and it dosent seem to recognize disc two.

So im tempted to just get a mini-image and mount it and it would have been justified both morally and legally.
But still i am unsure of if i would risk my cd-key and account if i take this action,
I paid for this product and i should be able to play it! 

[vometia]

If you're all that concerned about it, you can simply reinstall the game using the EADM version.  Uses the CD key from any PC version (Steam, Impulse, D2D or DVD) and no disc check.

"Invalid product code".

Got to love DRM.  I don't think.  After all the grief I've had with it, I sometimes wonder why I'm still buying legit copies of all my games.