63 réponses à ce sujet

[PaulSX]

I would say, plot wise, DA2 is deeper than Origins, especially how Bioware convey the political and racial conflicts. But DA2 has some really bad designs: very small scale, overly re-used assets and enemies came out from nowhere which destroyed immersion.

Modifié par suntzuxi, 21 février 2012 - 06:42 .

[ScotGaymer]

suntzuxi wrote...

I would say, plot wise, DA2 is deeper than Origins, especially how Bioware convey the political and racial conflicts. But DA2 has some really bad designs: very small scale, overly re-used assets and enemies came out from nowhere which destroyed immersion.

I wouldn't say it had a deeper plot exactly.

I would say instead that it had a more -original- plotline than Dragon Age Origins; at least the over arcing story, and the plot up until the end of Act 2.
The plot falls apart in Act 3, alas.

[RazorrX]

I still stand by most of my critiques/complaints about DA2.

I was not still wanting to play my warden, I finished his story and was fine with a new protagonist. One of the things I like about the DA franchise is that it is world based vs character based. Each new game allows for a good entry point for new players, as well as allowing existing players to go even deeper into the lore of the world and (if done properly) feel that they have helped shape it. To me Hawke is over as well (At least I hope so). I am ready for another new character with a new tale in which *I* have more input vs what I was given in DA2.

To me the core of where DA2 went wrong was it diverged so much from what DA:O was.

[Carmen_Willow]

DA2 grew on me. Over time and gameplay, I have come to appreciate the game for what it truly is instead of longing for my perception of what I thought it should be.

I hated the reused dungeons; however, after playing many hours of Skyrim, those barrows are looking terribly familiar....as are the caves and the houses. Bethesda reused a lot more than they got "credit" for and none of their quests had the same emotional depth as Bioware's do.

The characters kept me engaged. Love him or hate him, Anders is pretty darned unforgettable as are the rest of your companions. Carver as the jealous younger sibling was dead on, and I adored him. Once I stopped whining, I found that the gameplay was more fun. Being an archer was more fun than in Origins as was being a mage. Being able to respec your character was wonderful and I loved being able to change my hairstyle at will. In origins if you didn't like the way your character looked, you had to start over.

The ending was too abrupt, and the crazy mage trying to kill you as an ally was not smart, but on the whole, it was an interesting story. I've played it a lot, so there's some appeal there for me.

I think if the had just called the game "Dragon Age: Champion of Kirkwall" people wouldn't have been so disappointed. Strange how a name can affect perception, isn't it?

[JosephCurwen]

Hubrah wrote...

After replaying DA2 this weekend after picking it up back in februrary almost a year ago, I admit I was wrong on my initial criticism of the game.

There are of course many things that could have been done better. However,I enjoyed the story of Hawke. I believe the character is well designed ( and I got to see a little bit more in DLC ).

I think a lot of us who bash DAII simply miss our Wardens. What I would give for one more adventure. The Wardens story should not end with DA:O, let it continue ( with Hawkes ) in DA:III

If this was the extent of your criticism you were pretty much primed to come around to liking the game anyway. My major criticisms (endless trash mobs, absence of meaningful tactics, constrained camera, location reuse, storyline collapse, low resolution textures and poor graphics generally) have yet to be addressed.

[Lethys1]

The story of the game makes beyond no sense. You can spend the entire game trying to help mages and the effect of the "Champion" and his actions would be the same as if you spent the entire time trying to wipe them out. The game shifts gears completely and gives us two unsatisfying storylines; one that ends far too quickly (Arishok, only good character in the game) and one that makes no sense (blood mages vs templars).

There are too many blood mages to feel any semblance of sympathy for them, and they attacked my Hawke for no reason on the outskirts of the city despite that me and that sort of renegade templar were helping them. I am a pro-mage guy the entire game and they turn on me, so I had not even a single remorse in slaughtering everyone. The templars also are too brutal to feel badly for them.

There are no consequences for your specific actions. If I was pro-templar all game it would make sense for mages to attack me, but I was pro-mage. And they still attacked me. Your mother has to die, your sibling has to be removed after chapter one, and in the end you kill both Orsino and the head templar.

There is nothing morally ambiguous, making for a tough decision. Everyone turns out to be evil in the end, except for Hawke who has to kill everyone. You should be able to kill Merrill, which I wanted to do, and side with the Arishok, which I wanted to do. You should not dislike vehemently the people you're forced to group with except for Varric.

The game uses the deaths of major characters who are, in reality, on the periphery to try and pull on our heartstrings in a way that felt incredibly cheap. The initial death of the sibling desensitizes people to any subsequent deaths. The mother's death scene is incredibly cheesy, with her dying in your arms. The second sibling death or take-away ruined my entire party make-up, with Bethany playing the role of least annoying character because she basically had no character.

The straight male romance options were horrific. Isabela, a stereotypical "woman amongst men" type of promiscuous STD-ridden pirate, or a character that acted like a 12 year old who also happened to be a blood mage. I chose the pirate and, as it turns out, she stole some stuff. Either bail her out or have no romance content.

And the gameplay was atrocious as well. Ever-spawning enemies don't allow for strategic gameplay or planning, class imbalances, healing was reduced to potion-fest 2011, enemies who both could disappear entirely and had just as much health as the hardest enemies, a distinct lack of need for good spacing. Tanking became essentially useless as now the tanks couldn't attract enemy units efficiently enough. Magic was overpowered beyond an acceptable level.

How, if you are a blood mage, does that NOT impact the story???????? Or a mage at all for that matter. The one city setting was incredibly boring the entire game and the timeline moves just as people get settled in their surroundings.

The biggest problem is simple; I felt like the game was pulling me, instead of me influencing the game. It was too fast, had no significant choices, and I am incredibly disappointed in it still.

[Patchwork]

No.

That it didn't star the warden might be your reason for hating DA2 but it isn't mine. For me DA2 was bad because Kirkwall was lifeless, the dungeons were re-used with no attempt to disguise it and the story didn't have cohesion.

The companions are the only reason I have multiple playthroughs.

I'm quite happy to have a new protagonist each game and I'm looking forward to playing a Seeker or whatever in DA3. As far as I'm concerned my wardens' story ended with DAO and I'm fine with that.

[Fast Jimmy]

Lethys1 wrote...

This about sums up most of my complaints with the game.

There were parts of DA2 I loved mechanics-wise, like the crafting and the cross-class combos, which I felt weren't developed or implemented enough. But overall, the mechanics didn't improve or even equate DAO's performance. And certain story lines were really engaging and showed potential, but weren't taken to any sort of conclusion (Enigma of Kirkwall and Bone Pit, as an example).

Also, I thought that character rendering (especially elves) was way too off-putting and unattractive for the lore, and I thought the equipment situation was a joke, with a 2 Star Ring having the same stat boosts as a 5 Star Ring (both named just as generically). The simplification of the inventory system was anything but.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 22 février 2012 - 08:35 .

[bluewolv1970]

Lethys1 wrote...

The story of the game makes beyond no sense. You can spend the entire game trying to help mages and the effect of the "Champion" and his actions would be the same as if you spent the entire time trying to wipe them out. The game shifts gears completely and gives us two unsatisfying storylines; one that ends far too quickly (Arishok, only good character in the game) and one that makes no sense (blood mages vs templars).

There are too many blood mages to feel any semblance of sympathy for them, and they attacked my Hawke for no reason on the outskirts of the city despite that me and that sort of renegade templar were helping them. I am a pro-mage guy the entire game and they turn on me, so I had not even a single remorse in slaughtering everyone. The templars also are too brutal to feel badly for them.

There are no consequences for your specific actions. If I was pro-templar all game it would make sense for mages to attack me, but I was pro-mage. And they still attacked me. Your mother has to die, your sibling has to be removed after chapter one, and in the end you kill both Orsino and the head templar.

There is nothing morally ambiguous, making for a tough decision. Everyone turns out to be evil in the end, except for Hawke who has to kill everyone. You should be able to kill Merrill, which I wanted to do, and side with the Arishok, which I wanted to do. You should not dislike vehemently the people you're forced to group with except for Varric.

The game uses the deaths of major characters who are, in reality, on the periphery to try and pull on our heartstrings in a way that felt incredibly cheap. The initial death of the sibling desensitizes people to any subsequent deaths. The mother's death scene is incredibly cheesy, with her dying in your arms. The second sibling death or take-away ruined my entire party make-up, with Bethany playing the role of least annoying character because she basically had no character.

The straight male romance options were horrific. Isabela, a stereotypical "woman amongst men" type of promiscuous STD-ridden pirate, or a character that acted like a 12 year old who also happened to be a blood mage. I chose the pirate and, as it turns out, she stole some stuff. Either bail her out or have no romance content.

And the gameplay was atrocious as well. Ever-spawning enemies don't allow for strategic gameplay or planning, class imbalances, healing was reduced to potion-fest 2011, enemies who both could disappear entirely and had just as much health as the hardest enemies, a distinct lack of need for good spacing. Tanking became essentially useless as now the tanks couldn't attract enemy units efficiently enough. Magic was overpowered beyond an acceptable level.

How, if you are a blood mage, does that NOT impact the story???????? Or a mage at all for that matter. The one city setting was incredibly boring the entire game and the timeline moves just as people get settled in their surroundings.

The biggest problem is simple; I felt like the game was pulling me, instead of me influencing the game. It was too fast, had no significant choices, and I am incredibly disappointed in it still.

yep

[schalafi]

The main problem I had with act 3 was that the first 3/4ths of it was all companion quests, some totally not related to the mage/templar problem. Ander's quest "Justice" was related, but most of the others were just npc quests. There had been a gradual build up of info about the blood mages and the templars, but the only thing we, as players were allowed to do was choose a side. We weren't allowed to be neutral, or stay out of it at all. When there are only 2 choices in a game, and neither of them are satisfying, the player is the one who loses. I thought the game was well written, the characters were interesting, the banter was fun to listen to, but the lack of a choice other than siding with mage or templar, ruined act 3 for me. There should have been a third option.

I wanted to have Isabela take her ship and me and my companions, and get out of Kirkwall fast!

[The Executioner]

I like DA2 it's an above average game with good characters and story.

[Celtic Latino]

Like other users stated I don't believe that it was just the Warden that had others upset.

I am a fan of Dragon Age 2 as I've no doubt established on BSN. I love the party members, I preferred the action-oriented combat and really didn't mind the personality-based dialogue wheel. To me there were many improvements (friendship/rivalry system, said combat, party members were more immersive-to me at least) but I can understand the complaints that many had for DA2.

It truly should not have been called Dragon Age '2'. It definitely does not feel like a sequel but rather a standalone title or story. Origins was very epic and featured diverse areas (Orzammar, Denerim, the Circle Tower) whereas DA2 was very streamlined and mainly focused on one city. While that in itself is not a bad thing, many fans would think a sequel would involve a continuation of diverse areas and lengthy gameplay.

The story was good but even I'll admit it's not great (at least as far as storyline goes in games). Meredith was not a well established villain until Act 3. One of the series staple characters, Anders, was re-written so badly that it's impossible to really put the same Anders people enjoyed in Awakening with the man that's in DA2. The problem is the story lacked focus. Now I understand the story is about Hawke and his/her interactions with the world. However, Hawke really didn't seem to have much of a goal other than to find events thrust upon him/her whereas the Warden had a goal to save the Blight, Shepard to stop the Reapers. It doesn't have to be about saving the world but if the Templar/Mage conflict was so strong it should have been established in the beginning, not as an afterthought towards the end. With that in mind I can definitely sympathize with at least the constructive criticism towards DA2.

Do I agree with threads popping up every single day devoted to DA2 hate? No.
Do I think that many people decided to hate the game before even giving it a chance? Yes.
Do I believe Dragon Age 2 is a good game in its own right? Absolutely.

And anyway I'm glad NOT to have the Warden back. His/her story (with me I have several) is done. He/she served a purpose. Just like I'll be glad to have a new protagonist for DA3, simply because Hawke served his/her purpose. But I don't think the complaints were solely about protagonist love.

Glad to know you enjoyed the game though.

[PPR223]

The direction they took with the Dragon Age series was horrible, and I just hope they do not continue with it through Dragon Age 3.

The story was awful, and I honestly don't know how anyone even considers it acceptable. It was incoherent, bland, had no purpose and was honestly quite badly written. Act 2 was not so bad, it atleast had a bit of a story, but it was sandwiched between Act One, collecting 50gold, and Act Three, which was just horrendous.

We also get the reused maps, I swear I went into one cave about 15 times. This is completely inexusable.

The worst thing for me though was the Meredith fight, it showed a complete turn in what the Dragon Age series was about. In Origins it had quite a realistic style, but in Dragon Age 2 it turned into something ridiculous. I can safely say this is the worst game I have played.

[Barbarossa2010]

OP, I'm glad you like it after a year's reflection, but you appear predisposed to like this sort of game anyway, for what it's worth imo. For me, DA2 still plays like a slapped together mess, innovative only in that it was an experiment in cost-cutting, severely constraining resources, and seeing what little content and polish they could actually put into a product and get away with for a set purchase point. It was completely devoid of inspiration or passion, and completely unworthy of the the name of it's predecessor. I would still say after a year, that it was the worst game I ever played, but I happen to play Duke Nukem Forever in the meantime! So no longer does it hold that title.

Whatever data or development model or business plan or envisioned goal that led Bioware to think that Dragon Age 2 was a serious entry into the AAA RPG market, and that players wouldn't notice, or might overlook, the severe reduction of content or the significant corners cut in quality and effort, needs to be seriously relooked...to the point that taking several steps backward to your original starting point might be the best course of action; practically speaking. This idea of marrying Origins and DA2 just smells like more of the same to me. More DA2 with a bone thrown every so often to Origins fans.  That'll get found out quick, and I hope they know that.

Bioware can thump their chests all they want that DA2 was a "commercial success" and they are "delighted" with all their "new fans." The reality is that slashing sales by more than half and condensing your player-base by as much (which is probably even far less as of now) in only the second outing of a franchise, not to mention the divisiveness of the players that remain who still even care, might be a key indicator that they made a serious error in their revised vision for what started out as a promising franchise.

All things considered after a year, whatever the issues were with Origins, DA2 was not even remotely close to the answer in my view. Consumer don't give A's for Effort. You want sales like Skyrim Bioware? You want GOTY, Studio and Developer awards? Then you better be ready to invest the time, effort, passion, and resourcing as Bethesda does into their franchises. Oh, and get your marketing act together, there are many, many non-adolescents who actually play your games.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 23 février 2012 - 03:47 .

[Joy Divison]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

I hated the reused dungeons; however, after playing many hours of Skyrim, those barrows are looking terribly familiar....as are the caves and the houses. Bethesda reused a lot more than they got "credit" for and none of their quests had the same emotional depth as Bioware's do.

Bethesda gets credit because they didn't actually use the same barrows and caves like Bioware did.  Bioware couldn't even be bothered to change the mini-map when it blocked its recycled maps with an unopenable door.

SKyrim and DA2's respect for enviroments and details are on such different levels that it is an insult to the former to compare the two in this regard.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 23 février 2012 - 03:58 .

[Davillo]

I passed dragon age 2 about 16 times by now and I really don't feel like playing it anymore. I got my last play trough's on 3 characters saved at act 3 with mota passed and I'm just keeping it for any new dlc or content. I really hope they give us an ex-pack it could totally redeem DA2. But still the game was supposed to be allot better and it didn't deliver instead took away.

[Eyeofanger]

 The story of da2 was in my opinion written very well. The only disapointment were the recycled levels

[philippe willaume]

CJKenley wrote...

philippe willaume wrote...


Act III is still way below par though :-)

QFE

1022 this morning at sun rise.
philippe

Modifié par philippe willaume, 23 février 2012 - 07:50 .

[CuriousArtemis]

I'm pretty sure the OP is correct since I played DA2 first, loved it, then bought DA:O and was less impressed.

Your perspective is colored by your experiences.

EDIT: Oh and may I add that I haven't bothered to pick up Skyrim since I learned it has an unvoiced protagonist (bleh) and that the relationships are very superficial.  Bah, no thanks.  DA2 spoiled me!!!!

Modifié par motomotogirl, 23 février 2012 - 07:39 .

[TEWR]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

I hated the reused dungeons; however, after playing many hours of Skyrim, those barrows are looking terribly familiar....as are the caves and the houses. Bethesda reused a lot more than they got "credit" for and none of their quests had the same emotional depth as Bioware's do.

Not quite.

Bethesda stuck with a theme for their caves and dungeons, but each one is discernably different from the next.

Which makes sense given that most Barrows are ancient Nordic crypts. There should be a theme for them, to show ancient Nordic architecture. But they're all different.

DAII reused each and every dungeon. They are all copypastas of one another.

Bethesda deserved all the credit they got.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 février 2012 - 07:52 .

[philippe willaume]

Eyeofanger wrote...

 The story of da2 was in my opinion written very well. The only disapointment were the recycled levels

I could agree with you until the end of act II but really you can not tell me with a straight faced that act III was well written.
side with th templar
Hawke we are winning, you were right those damned mage were up to something.
M “good I can go ape-**** now “
Hawke “no it is ok we have won”
M “don't care going ape-**** anyway”.


Side with the mage
Hawke “we are winning, we have repelled the templar onslaught.”
O” yes but we are all doomed, I need to go ape-**** now”
Hawke “well O mate, there is only us here most of the templar are outside, as you can see we can deal with what here”
O “don't care going ape-**** anyway.”
Hawke "what is that monkey business with the templar and the mage"

It would have been kind of ok if you tried to stay neutral and that the situation unravels at both ends.
But if you sided with one side it is a bit thin.

not to mention Anders antic which are even worse if you had a relationship
after completing the Chantry meets Mass effect.

Hawke "Anders how have we been together "
Anders "7 years dear."
hawkes "when did you plan to tell me what you were going to do"
anders " well for the last 3 tears you were kind of not there for me"
 
Philippe

[ScotGaymer]

Yeh I agree with earlier posters.

Overall the storyline of DA2 was well written, at least the majority of the game was; but the Act 3 storyline which was supposed to be the games "main quest" as someone else said, makes little to no sense.

There isn't enough foreshadowing/build up for it, the Act 2 Storyline is abruptly ended, and the Act 3 storyline abruptly shoved down the player's throat.
I wouldn't say the ending is the worst ending i've ever seen in a game (that accolade belongs to the story/dialogue abomination that is Fallout 3) but it is definately up there in the top ten of let down endings.

The Act 3 storyline is also simply not long enough, and the overarcing story is padded out by elements from DAO that people massively disliked (The Fade and The Deep Roads) and didn't want to see again, to make it feel longer.

This game NEEDS either a Construction Kit, or an Expansion to fix Act 3 and the ending. Needs it, otherwise it will become one of those Fanon Discontinuity things (look it up on TV tropes), which is something that any franchise wants to avoid as much as possible.

[Eyeofanger]

I can tell you with a straight face I liked act 3 too in fact it's my favorite part. I am not very picky about games. I try to enjoy a game and I form my own opinions and I do not really care what others think about a game as long as I can enjoy the game          

philippe willaume wrote...

Eyeofanger wrote...

 The story of da2 was in my opinion written very well. The only disapointment were the recycled levels

I could agree with you until the end of act II but really you can not tell me with a straight faced that act III was well written.
side with th templar
Hawke we are winning, you were right those damned mage were up to something.
M “good I can go ape-**** now “
Hawke “no it is ok we have won”
M “don't care going ape-**** anyway”.


Side with the mage
Hawke “we are winning, we have repelled the templar onslaught.” 
O” yes but we are all doomed, I need to go ape-**** now”
Hawke “well O mate, there is only us here most of the templar are outside, as you can see we can deal with what here”
O “don't care going ape-**** anyway.”
Hawke "what is that monkey business with the templar and the mage"

It would have been kind of ok if you tried to stay neutral and that the situation unravels at both ends.
But if you sided with one side it is a bit thin.

not to mention Anders antic which are even worse if you had a relationship
after completing the Chantry meets Mass effect.

Hawke "Anders how have we been together "
Anders "7 years dear."
hawkes "when did you plan to tell me what you were going to do"
anders " well for the last 3 tears you were kind of not there for me"
 
Philippe

Modifié par Eyeofanger, 24 février 2012 - 04:03 .

[LZA_FUNK]

 PLEASE!!!! no more criticisms about this game !!!..... OMG!!!!!!


DAO = was a true RPG!!!!
DA2= was an action game

BIOWARE did a pissed up job selling a bag mixed goods to its fans of the series!!!
People were expecting a true RPG experience with the sequel but instead we got an action game!!!


Hopefully, they can mere the best of both worlds , something like Kingdoms of Amalor but with  much creative
storyline something BIOWARE is known for..

LOVE IT, OR HATE IT!!!   DA2 is here!!!! no more complaing....sell it Gamespot and get ripped off!!! 

BIOWARE is focussed on Mass Effect 3, Their number 1#
cash cow!!!!!

The next Dragon Age  is the ignored stepchild, it will get the hand me downs ideas from Mass Effect 3