233 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

For those of you who support Cerberus and are not happy with being forced to fight against them, welcome to the world of those of us who despised Cerberus yet in ME 2 we were given no way to do anything about it until the end of the game, where we could tell TIM to f* off and blow the Collector base.

Okay, so just to clarify. Because you didn't like working with Cerberus, it's perfectly fine for us to end the trilogy fighting against Cerberus and unlike you, we do not recieve the option to do what we desire even in the ending? 

There is a story to be told, the story has to take a specific direction and there are so many variables due to the choices we have in the game it is virtually impossible to take them all into account and write the story into the direction it needs to go. At least not if we ever want to see the continuation of the game, not until computers get a little smarter and can rewrite the software as we make the decisions.

They didn't need to make Cerberus the prime antagonist, they could've played a much smaller role and be just as important as the Rachni Queen. Like ME: Retribution set them up to be.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 21 février 2012 - 04:06 .

[wizardryforever]

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

Because indoctrination. Oh how I hate thee indoctrination, such a lazy plot device.

It's the only reason why anyone with knowledge of the Reapers would oppose someone like Shepard in ME3.  Hell, all of the main antagonists in the series have been either Reapers or their servants.  Saren was indoctrinated, and it didn't diminish his character.  Most people find Saren so interesting because his indoctrinated logic made a twisted kind of sense.  If the Illusive Man can give his own indoctrinated twist on things, I won't really mind if he gets indoctrinated. 

[Julia343]

It's hard being a renegade. Even if you're going through the game with your middle finger up in the air, the only difference is you get to be the anti-hero rather than the hero. The results are the same. What makes it totally unbelievable is that they'd even select such a person for this type of mission. The paragon/renegade points seem totally arbitrary. Take Balak for example. Sacrificing the hostages, having a little fun with him, then turning him over to the Alliance for "interrogation" would probably be worse than killing him outright, but nets you less renegade points... go figure that one.

Needless to say I'm doing one last play through of ME2 full out butthead. No paragon here for this one. Even Samara dies. I will take spectre status back just for the club benefits, and for the lolz.

[Oni Changas]

ziloe wrote...

So, why exactly is Cerberus against you, if you cooperated with them in ME2? 

Easily explained.

Their methods differed from Shep's
Shep is straight up Alliance.
Shep and TIM barely liked/trusted one another, but respected one another mutually and worked together against an immediate threat.

[incinerator950]

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

For those of you who support Cerberus and are not happy with being forced to fight against them, welcome to the world of those of us who despised Cerberus yet in ME 2 we were given no way to do anything about it until the end of the game, where we could tell TIM to f* off and blow the Collector base.

Last I checked you were able to subvert any request Cerberus made, constantly tell off the Illusive Man, take David to Grissom, and destroy the Collector Base.  Even Hacket can comment that the SR2 stopped being a Cerberus vessel in name.  That's less linear then lol indoctrination. 

[BlueMagitek]

Besides, given how little importance Cerberus has in ME 1, I doubt that anyone went in straight up despising them. Instead of going "Oh, that black op group that had all those experiments, oh yeah, I remember that".

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Gabey5 wrote...

There is no logical reason if TIM is still in charge and has not been indoctrinated

Yep, this is based on Argumentum ad populum.

Indoctrination is the outcome of transmissions of an active reaper ... not a dead collector base. Pfft

[Luan]

 Because www.flickr.com/photos/63367666@N07/

[wizardryforever]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

There is no logical reason if TIM is still in charge and has not been indoctrinated

Yep, this is based on Argumentum ad populum.

Indoctrination is the outcome of transmissions of an active reaper ... not a dead collector base. Pfft

Oh?  What about Object Rho?  What about the random artifacts found that compel people to huskify themselves?  It's entirely conceivable that the Collector base has indoctrination tech on it, considering that the base builds Reapers.  And we all know what Cerberus' intentions towards potentially dangerous tech is: "reverse engineer it in a dangerously irresponsible way, then tell people that it was for the greater good when everyone involved dies horribly."

[BlueMagitek]

You know, I'm really getting tired of the "reverse engineering Reaper tech is bad, except for when it works, and I'm going to just shrug off those occurrences".

If you really believe Reaper tech is so bad, toss away anything developed from when the Mars Cache was discovered and see how that works out for you.

[Heimdall]

BlueMagitek wrote...

You know, I'm really getting tired of the "reverse engineering Reaper tech is bad, except for when it works, and I'm going to just shrug off those occurrences".

If you really believe Reaper tech is so bad, toss away anything developed from when the Mars Cache was discovered and see how that works out for you.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that.

Mars Cache was Prothean tech fyi

[Lotion Soronarr]

OniTYME wrote...

ziloe wrote...

So, why exactly is Cerberus against you, if you cooperated with them in ME2? 

Easily explained.

Their methods differed from Shep's
Shep is straight up Alliance.
Shep and TIM barely liked/trusted one another, but respected one another mutually and worked together against an immediate threat.

Nope, that's a BS explanation and you know it.

Collectors are a endlessly lesser threat than the Reaeprs, yet Shep can work with TIM againt them, but not against the Reapers?


EDIT:

Yes,I'm getting tired of "but it's reaper tech!" thing too.
It's technology. Machines. Not some mystical mumbo-jumbo that we can never grasp.

You cannot run from the reapers or the indoctrination, yet you lot refuse to study it - even tough it's the greatest weapon of the enemy; a weapon that WILL be used agasint you.

[Draconis6666]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You cannot run from the reapers or the indoctrination, yet you lot refuse to study it - even tough it's the greatest weapon of the enemy; a weapon that WILL be used agasint you.

Sure will, it will be used against you while your trying to study it like it has every time some idiot decided to

[Alithinos]

Luan wrote...

 Because www.flickr.com/photos/63367666@N07/

****! put some spoilers warning there please!!!!!! 

(p.s. poor Jack)

[Big I]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Besides, given how little importance Cerberus has in ME 1, I doubt that anyone went in straight up despising them. Instead of going "Oh, that black op group that had all those experiments, oh yeah, I remember that".

Tell that to all the Sole Survivors.

[Kaiser Shepard]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Besides, given how little importance Cerberus has in ME 1, I doubt that anyone went in straight up despising them. Instead of going "Oh, that black op group that had all those experiments, oh yeah, I remember that".

Tell that to all the Sole Survivors.

You rang?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You cannot run from the reapers or the indoctrination, yet you lot refuse to study it - even tough it's the greatest weapon of the enemy; a weapon that WILL be used agasint you.

Sure will, it will be used against you while your trying to study it like it has every time some idiot decided to

It will be used agaisnt you EN MASSE when the reapers come. Wihout any defense agaisnt it, what do you plan to do? Cower in fear in the corner of the room?
And here you have the opportunity to study it in a controled, isolated enviroment.

Like a caveman fearing fire, so you fear reaper tech, at the cost of your own survival. Reaper tech CAN be studied. Every time it was it ended with a cruical advantage for the races fo the galaxy.

The possible loss of some scientists is a small risk to take in comparison.

[Draconis6666]

So instead your going to trust the research from people who were likely indoctrinated by the very thing they were researching and use that to plan your defense around it? Yes that's very intelligent. Of course reaper tech can be studied, most reaper tech is not designed specifically to brainwash anyone who attempts to study it, Indoctrination IS for the very reason that the reapers know that when organic races try to learn about them they will see the Reapers Advanced technology and study as much of it as they can, it uses the curiosity of organics as well as their desire to preserve themselves by finding every advantage they can against them.

There is no reason to fear reaper tech in general, there is a huge reason to fear directly attempting to study indoctrination.

[mummio2]

Morover it seems none noticed that the worst cerberus projects, for which tim has been blamed, were developed without tim's knowledge like considering the project zero where, as the recordings clearly explain, they were acting totally out of sight of tim and afraid to get caught by him, and in the project overlord where gavin archer forcibly and deliberately incorporated his brother into the VI when tim threatened to shut down the project without relevant results, cause the project was too expensive and slow.

Modifié par mummio2, 21 février 2012 - 09:17 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Draconis6666 wrote...

So instead your going to trust the research from people who were likely indoctrinated by the very thing they were researching and use that to plan your defense around it? Yes that's very intelligent. Of course reaper tech can be studied, most reaper tech is not designed specifically to brainwash anyone who attempts to study it, Indoctrination IS for the very reason that the reapers know that when organic races try to learn about them they will see the Reapers Advanced technology and study as much of it as they can, it uses the curiosity of organics as well as their desire to preserve themselves by finding every advantage they can against them.

There is no reason to fear reaper tech in general, there is a huge reason to fear directly attempting to study indoctrination.

Yes, it is intelligent. Because you will have to fight indoctrination.

You can either fight it with NOTHING ... OR you can atttempt to study it and mabye have soemthing with which to combat it. When the reapers come there will be thousands of indoctrinations devices turning everyon into their puppets. WHAT DO YOU DO THEN?

Yes, it's risky. Yes, it's dangerous.  But at the end of the day it is technology, not magic. It is not beyond our understanding.

It's no more dangerous than not having any defense agaisnt it when the reapers come. Actually, it's exponentially less dangerous.

[Eclipse_9990]

Because Cerberus are a bunch of ****s! I told you guys during ME2, but nooo you wouldn't listen! D:<

Edit: Lol should have known people would still try to defend giving Cerberus the base. Look you guys were wrong. Get over it! 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 21 février 2012 - 09:25 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Because Cerberus are a bunch of ****s! I told you guys during ME2, but nooo you wouldn't listen! D:<

Edit: Lol should have known people would still try to defend giving Cerberus the base. Look you guys were wrong. Get over it! 

Of coruse we'll defned it.
At that time, and with the knowledge we had then, it was the logicl course of action to take.

Logical courses of action CAN turn out to be bad ones, but the reasoning behind them remains correct.

[Texhnolyze101]

DJBare wrote...

kingsims wrote...

TIM = new Saren. I wouldn't be surprised if he redeems himself in the end with the right paragon or renegade dialogue.

And he instantly gets a renegade from me, I used up my paragon on saren, I don't suffer fools gladly and TIM is the biggest fool of the series.

I still get a laugh out of how some folk thought TIM and Shepard were gonna be best buddies, a man who will betray anyone to reach his goal.

I was kinda hoping he was earth born sheps father....

[Draconis6666]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

So instead your going to trust the research from people who were likely indoctrinated by the very thing they were researching and use that to plan your defense around it? Yes that's very intelligent. Of course reaper tech can be studied, most reaper tech is not designed specifically to brainwash anyone who attempts to study it, Indoctrination IS for the very reason that the reapers know that when organic races try to learn about them they will see the Reapers Advanced technology and study as much of it as they can, it uses the curiosity of organics as well as their desire to preserve themselves by finding every advantage they can against them.

There is no reason to fear reaper tech in general, there is a huge reason to fear directly attempting to study indoctrination.

Yes, it is intelligent. Because you will have to fight indoctrination.

You can either fight it with NOTHING ... OR you can atttempt to study it and mabye have soemthing with which to combat it. When the reapers come there will be thousands of indoctrinations devices turning everyon into their puppets. WHAT DO YOU DO THEN?

Yes, it's risky. Yes, it's dangerous.  But at the end of the day it is technology, not magic. It is not beyond our understanding.

It's no more dangerous than not having any defense agaisnt it when the reapers come. Actually, it's exponentially less dangerous.

Yet the very act of studying it makes the results of the study unreliable, you could spend all that time and resources studying it use what you find to develop countermeasures only to find taht the people who studied it were indoctrinated all along and your countermeasures not only dont protect you against it but instead help it work evey more effectively against you.

Then not only do you still not have a defense you've helped the reapers achieve their goals much faster. Yes it is technology, however it IS beyond or understanding at the time because we dont even have a basic understanding of the reapers themselves, running in to study the reapers most invasive and insidious weapon before having a better understanding of the reapers themselves and how the basics of their technology work and differ from our own is like deciding to study nuclear fission without understanding the basics of atoms.

You cannot study indoctrination in a controled enviornment because you simply do not understand it enough to create a controlled enviornment. We have no concepts of how it works, how far from the object the signal is effective, if  watching recordings of the object can cause it.... etc... there are too many unknowns about the technology and capability of reaper tech in general to create a controled enviornment to study indoctrination. Saren tried and the reasearchers all ended up indoctrinated too.