233 réponses à ce sujet

[The Empress]

I don't know if this has been said before, but...

What if Shepard has Reaper tech inside of her. You know, from being rebuilt by Cerberus? If that's true I will f**k Miranda up...

[Eclipse_9990]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Because Cerberus are a bunch of ****s! I told you guys during ME2, but nooo you wouldn't listen! D:<

Edit: Lol should have known people would still try to defend giving Cerberus the base. Look you guys were wrong. Get over it! 

Of coruse we'll defned it.
At that time, and with the knowledge we had then, it was the logicl course of action to take.

Logical courses of action CAN turn out to be bad ones, but the reasoning behind them remains correct.

Lol no. Cerberus is scum, this was shown even in mass effect 1. TIM is obsessed with power, and will do anything to get it, and Reaper Tech has the tendency to indoctrinate anyone around it. So yeah... That choice was hardly logical. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 21 février 2012 - 09:44 .

[mummio2]

The Empress wrote...

I don't know if this has been said before, but...

What if Shepard has Reaper tech inside of her. You know, from being rebuilt by Cerberus? If that's true I will f**k Miranda up...

I don't think it is what is going to be. It would make too much sense, I suspect that all the plot will be reduced in good-smart-free guys (shep and co.) vs bad-idiot-indoctrinated ones (cerberus and co.)

[Lotion Soronarr]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Because Cerberus are a bunch of ****s! I told you guys during ME2, but nooo you wouldn't listen! D:<

Edit: Lol should have known people would still try to defend giving Cerberus the base. Look you guys were wrong. Get over it! 

Of coruse we'll defned it.
At that time, and with the knowledge we had then, it was the logicl course of action to take.

Logical courses of action CAN turn out to be bad ones, but the reasoning behind them remains correct.

Lol no. Cerberus is scum, this was shown even in mass effect 1. TIM is obsessed with power, and will do anything to get it, and Reaper Tech has the tendency to indoctrinate anyone around it. So yeah... That choice was hardly logical.

Lol yes. It's not my problem your resoning part of the brain is damaged and you cannot set priorities.

Cerberus being "scum" is irrelevant. They were fighting agasint the reapers, that's what's important.
TIM obsessed with power? Not factual, just your impression.

Reaper tech can indoctrinate? Not always, and even if it does EVERY SINGLE TIME we did study it we ended up with a big advantage (IFF, Thanix, EDI, Arrival warning)

[SirEtchwart]

Isn't there a renegade line of dialogue post-Suicide Mission that goes something like "You're either with me or I'm going to crush you under my heel?" It sounds like Renegade Shepard is less pro-Cerberus and more pro-getting-stuff-done, which is what Cerberus was all about in Mass Effect 2. If they're against that in the third game, it's good enough reasoning.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Yes, it is intelligent. Because you will have to fight indoctrination.

You can either fight it with NOTHING ... OR you can atttempt to study it and mabye have soemthing with which to combat it. When the reapers come there will be thousands of indoctrinations devices turning everyon into their puppets. WHAT DO YOU DO THEN?

Yes, it's risky. Yes, it's dangerous.  But at the end of the day it is technology, not magic. It is not beyond our understanding.

It's no more dangerous than not having any defense agaisnt it when the reapers come. Actually, it's exponentially less dangerous.

Yet the very act of studying it makes the results of the study unreliable, you could spend all that time and resources studying it use what you find to develop countermeasures only to find taht the people who studied it were indoctrinated all along and your countermeasures not only dont protect you against it but instead help it work evey more effectively against you.

Then not only do you still not have a defense you've helped the reapers achieve their goals much faster. Yes it is technology, however it IS beyond or understanding at the time because we dont even have a basic understanding of the reapers themselves, running in to study the reapers most invasive and insidious weapon before having a better understanding of the reapers themselves and how the basics of their technology work and differ from our own is like deciding to study nuclear fission without understanding the basics of atoms.

You cannot study indoctrination in a controled enviornment because you simply do not understand it enough to create a controlled enviornment. We have no concepts of how it works, how far from the object the signal is effective, if  watching recordings of the object can cause it.... etc... there are too many unknowns about the technology and capability of reaper tech in general to create a controled enviornment to study indoctrination. Saren tried and the reasearchers all ended up indoctrinated too.

If you dont' study it you never WILL reach understanding. You're giving up before actually attempting. Such a defeateist attitude is unworthy of a human being.
Why don't you just roll out the welecome carpet for the reaeprs then?

Yes the researches might get indoctrinated. But gess what - you know what indoctrination does. You can take some measures. They may not work, but hte CB is in a locked system with only one way in or out. I'd say that's about as controlled and safe enviroment as you can get with indoctrination.

There's risks, but they are not that big - loosing a few scinetists is pittence.

I asked you again - what will you do once the reaeprs come. Answer me tha. How will you fight agaisnt them? How will you fight against indoctrination?

If you do not have an answer, then you got nothing.
Studying indoctrination gives you a CHANCE...which is more then you offer.

OH, and since apprenty TIM does crack it in ME3, then we obviously CAN understand it.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 21 février 2012 - 10:01 .

[Farbautisonn]

TIM is obsessed with getting all the edges he can.

Sure the reaper tech does have a tendency to indoctrinate but it has to be studied. If Mordin didnt study the "Seaker swarm" bug, you'd be SoL. In most wars the tech that was superior was taken by the conquering side. And if that means purgeing a few scientists bi weekly, so be it. Ill need all the advantages and information I can get to beat this enemy.

I need a cure against indoctrination. A vaccine or something that will protect me. If I dont I can expect to be betrayed by everyone no matter how little they plan to.

I need a way to penetrate and immobilize Reaper ships and shields so I can have a fighting chance.

I need to find some way to scramble their defenses, their drones and their robotics.

I need all of the above, I need it now, and I dont have time to wait or to consider any "niceties" such as morals or ethics. Because if I dont get the above and I dont beat the reapers and have to rely on some flimsy "trial and error" attack pattern, whatever fleet I might have will be utterly destroyed.

A single Reaper dreadnaught with simple Geth ships destroyed a fleet, threatened to or did indeed destroy the single largest Councill dreadnaught and almost succeeded in securing the utter destruction of all sapent organic life in the galaxy. Now imagine what a fleet with the accumulated numbers of 37 million years of tech, evolvement, reapers and other crap would do to an unprepared fleet, no matter what the size. Year... It would fly right through it like it wasnt even there.

TIM and cerberus are rat bastards. But they are our rat bastards. They fight for humanity first, for all organic life second. They will do whatever it takes to ensure the survival of our species, a trait that is completely lacking in both Alliance but allso in Council space. The rest of the galaxy would rather cling to illusions and hope than actually prepare and do whatever it takes to ensure the survival of their species. I need TIM and Cerberus.. I need that research, no matter how vile, no matter the cost. Its worth the risk of betrayal. Its worth the risk of human surpremacy in the galaxy. I need to have organic life survie at any... any cost. I am fighting an enemy that makes Hitler look like a mild mannered recluse. I am fighting a galaxy wide holocaust against an enemy that is so powerfull that I really dont have a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

At the time and against this enemy, helping out cerberus is the only logical choise. Its not a nice choise. Its not a moral or ethical choise. Its not even a particularily good choise. But its the only choise. Ill worry about ethics and morals later. If we survive as a species they can put me on the stand for warcrimes. It will be an infinitely smaller price to pay than the destruction of all sentient life.

[Eclipse_9990]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lol yes. It's not my problem your resoning part of the brain is damaged and you cannot set priorities.

Cerberus being "scum" is irrelevant. They were fighting agasint the reapers, that's what's important.
TIM obsessed with power? Not factual, just your impression.

Reaper tech can indoctrinate? Not always, and even if it does EVERY SINGLE TIME we did study it we ended up with a big advantage (IFF, Thanix, EDI, Arrival warning)

Um it is fact. *cough* Mass effect 3 plot! *cough* 

But anyway keep on arguing on this topic. I hope you realize that its pointless to defend your choice here, because everyone knows at this point that it was the wrong choice. All you're doing is trying to save face, and frankly its hilarious. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 21 février 2012 - 10:12 .

[Draconis6666]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Yes, it is intelligent. Because you will have to fight indoctrination.

You can either fight it with NOTHING ... OR you can atttempt to study it and mabye have soemthing with which to combat it. When the reapers come there will be thousands of indoctrinations devices turning everyon into their puppets. WHAT DO YOU DO THEN?

Yes, it's risky. Yes, it's dangerous.  But at the end of the day it is technology, not magic. It is not beyond our understanding.

It's no more dangerous than not having any defense agaisnt it when the reapers come. Actually, it's exponentially less dangerous.

Yet the very act of studying it makes the results of the study unreliable, you could spend all that time and resources studying it use what you find to develop countermeasures only to find taht the people who studied it were indoctrinated all along and your countermeasures not only dont protect you against it but instead help it work evey more effectively against you.

Then not only do you still not have a defense you've helped the reapers achieve their goals much faster. Yes it is technology, however it IS beyond or understanding at the time because we dont even have a basic understanding of the reapers themselves, running in to study the reapers most invasive and insidious weapon before having a better understanding of the reapers themselves and how the basics of their technology work and differ from our own is like deciding to study nuclear fission without understanding the basics of atoms.

You cannot study indoctrination in a controled enviornment because you simply do not understand it enough to create a controlled enviornment. We have no concepts of how it works, how far from the object the signal is effective, if  watching recordings of the object can cause it.... etc... there are too many unknowns about the technology and capability of reaper tech in general to create a controled enviornment to study indoctrination. Saren tried and the reasearchers all ended up indoctrinated too.

If you dont' study it you never WILL reach understanding. You're giving up before actually attempting. Such a defeateist attitude is unworthy of a human being.
Why don't you just roll out the welecome carpet for the reaeprs then?

Yes the researches might get indoctrinated. But gess what - you know what indoctrination does. You can take some measures. They may not work, but hte CB is in a locked system with only one way in or out. I'd say that's about as controlled and safe enviroment as you can get with indoctrination.

There's risks, but they are not that big - loosing a few scinetists is pittence.

I asked you again - what will you do once the reaeprs come. Answer me tha. How will you fight agaisnt them? How will you fight against indoctrination?

If you do not have an answer, then you got nothing.
Studying indoctrination gives you a CHANCE...which is more then you offer.

OH, and since apprenty TIM does crack it in ME3, then we obviously CAN understand it.

Based off what the leaked script says happens to TIM the argument that TIM "does crack it" would actualy just support my claim that its foolish to study it. At no point do I say dont study reaper tech, the point is to study the basics of reaper tech before leaping into the study of indoctrination.

Go study how an atomic bomb works without understanding the basics and see how long it takes you to blow yourself up. We have at best a limited understanding of reaper tech from technology used to create the Thanix, EDI, etc, none of which come from tech associated with indoctrination or how it works. We simply have no understanding of it. The very point of indoctrination is that the Reapers WANT you to study it, doing so just plays directly into their plans. 

The only thing we do know is that Indoctrination does not happen instantly, your far better off devoting your time to trying to find ways to destroy the reapers quickly and effectively before indoctrination can fully take hold than you are wasting time trying to understand something that is highly likely to simply subvert you to the reapers cause and provide nothing in return or in fact aid the reapers. 


Putting this aside, given Cerberus's track record even if you WERE going to experiment on Indoctrination Cerberus is the LAST organization you should let do it. They have been shown time and time again to be completely inept. The only thing they have ever actualy been shown to do without ***ing up completely was to resurrect shepard and rebuild the normandy, and they almost ****ed up resurrecting shepard since miranda had to wake Shepard up early because of wilson.

Modifié par Draconis6666, 21 février 2012 - 10:45 .

[SirEtchwart]

Also, from the sounds of things neither the Rachni nor the Collector Base decisions matter at all in ME3, which is a crying shame.

I mean, as a Paragon, I should have to see the consequences of my actions for letting my emotions get the better of my logic. I don't regret the decision, but Bioware shouldn't hold my hand either. Same with Renegades and the Rachni.

[CostinRaz]

Um it is fact. *cough* Mass effect 3 plot! *cough*

But anyway keep on arguing on this topic. I hope you realize that its pointless to defend your choice here, because everyone knows at this point that it was the wrong choice. All you're doing is trying to save face, and frankly its hilarious.

You mean the Mass Effect 3 leaked plot? That's far from what will be in the game.

As for the choice being wrong. How? Sure Cerberus will fight against you but how does that make the Collector Base choice STUPID since you can retake the thing from Cerberus ( or at least I assume so ) in ME3 and use it for your own ends?

[Eclipse_9990]

CostinRaz wrote...

Um it is fact. *cough* Mass effect 3 plot! *cough*

But anyway keep on arguing on this topic. I hope you realize that its pointless to defend your choice here, because everyone knows at this point that it was the wrong choice. All you're doing is trying to save face, and frankly its hilarious.

You mean the Mass Effect 3 leaked plot? That's far from what will be in the game.

As for the choice being wrong. How? Sure Cerberus will fight against you but how does that make the Collector Base choice STUPID since you can retake the thing from Cerberus ( or at least I assume so ) in ME3 and use it for your own ends?

Well since this is an assumption on your part then  then I'll acknowlage that it could be a smart choice in the end if this is true. Of course that is if you can take it back. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 21 février 2012 - 10:33 .

[SirEtchwart]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

CostinRaz wrote...

Um it is fact. *cough* Mass effect 3 plot! *cough*

But anyway keep on arguing on this topic. I hope you realize that its pointless to defend your choice here, because everyone knows at this point that it was the wrong choice. All you're doing is trying to save face, and frankly its hilarious.

You mean the Mass Effect 3 leaked plot? That's far from what will be in the game.

As for the choice being wrong. How? Sure Cerberus will fight against you but how does that make the Collector Base choice STUPID since you can retake the thing from Cerberus ( or at least I assume so ) in ME3 and use it for your own ends?

Well since this is an assumption on your part then if you can take it back, then I'll acknowlage that it could be a smart choice in the end. That is if you can take it back. 

It wasn't particularly difficult to take the first time.

[Eclipse_9990]

SirEtchwart wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

CostinRaz wrote...

Um it is fact. *cough* Mass effect 3 plot! *cough*

But anyway keep on arguing on this topic. I hope you realize that its pointless to defend your choice here, because everyone knows at this point that it was the wrong choice. All you're doing is trying to save face, and frankly its hilarious.

You mean the Mass Effect 3 leaked plot? That's far from what will be in the game.

As for the choice being wrong. How? Sure Cerberus will fight against you but how does that make the Collector Base choice STUPID since you can retake the thing from Cerberus ( or at least I assume so ) in ME3 and use it for your own ends?

Well since this is an assumption on your part then if you can take it back, then I'll acknowlage that it could be a smart choice in the end. That is if you can take it back. 

It wasn't particularly difficult to take the first time.

I meant if its even an option in ME3. 

[CostinRaz]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

CostinRaz wrote...

Um it is fact. *cough* Mass effect 3 plot! *cough*

But anyway keep on arguing on this topic. I hope you realize that its pointless to defend your choice here, because everyone knows at this point that it was the wrong choice. All you're doing is trying to save face, and frankly its hilarious.

You mean the Mass Effect 3 leaked plot? That's far from what will be in the game.

As for the choice being wrong. How? Sure Cerberus will fight against you but how does that make the Collector Base choice STUPID since you can retake the thing from Cerberus ( or at least I assume so ) in ME3 and use it for your own ends?

Well since this is an assumption on your part then  then I'll acknowlage that it could be a smart choice in the end if this is true. Of course that is if you can take it back. 

Well we are very likely going to fight for Omega.

[Draconis6666]

Giving the station to Cerberus is stupid for the simple fact that Cerberus ****s up every single thing they experiment on....lets go through the list

Project Overlord - Experimenting on Geth - ****ed up almost allowed crazed VI that could control machines to escape off world.

Project to Create Rachni Super Soldiers - Rachni escaped killed cerberus crew on station then escaped to other planets

Experimenting on Thorian Creepers - Creepers went crazy and killed everyone but a few hold outs

Implanting Grayson with reaper tech - Grayson escaped went on crazed rampage

Project Lazarus - Shepard had to be revived early because a key member of the staff was actually a traitor and killed off almost the entire staff.

etc..

The only completely successful project appears to be the building of the Normandy SR-2 technicaly I guess that's up for debate too since it ended up confiscated and rebuilt by the Alliance

yes these are clearly the people to give dangerous advanced reaper/collector tech to to study!

Modifié par Draconis6666, 21 février 2012 - 10:53 .

[mummio2]

Draconis6666 wrote...
Implanting Grayson with reaper tech - Grayson escaped went on crazed rampage

But that was alliance fault and to be honest bad luck.

Modifié par mummio2, 21 février 2012 - 11:02 .

[mccool78]

The collector base is obviously a Reaper production facility. So I saved it in most playthroughs because I thought it would be a great help to find weak spots on Reapers so they can be defeated.
So far we have nothing at hand to stop the Reapers (Ok not sure how effective the Thanix will be against them, but I don't think it will be nearly enough).
Well ok if now TIM betrays Shepard, then I have to acknowledge the mistake, but I always knew that Shepard never had problems to crush Cerberus, which makes me optimistic.

[Draconis6666]

mummio2 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Implanting Grayson with reaper tech - Grayson escaped went on crazed rampage

But that was alliance fault and to be honest bad luck.

True but it just furthers an already proven track record, even if ALL of it is bad luck that still means Cerberus has REALLY bad luck with its experiments and is not the person to give Reaper tech to for study.

[mummio2]

Draconis6666 wrote...

True but it just furthers an already proven track record, even if ALL of it is bad luck that still means Cerberus has REALLY bad luck with its experiments and is not the person to give Reaper tech to for study.

Sorry i edited, anyway...

I made a good use of jack as the biotic member into the collectors base
in ME2, and the jack's biotic powers were upgrated by cerberus

[Arppis]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lol yes. It's not my problem your resoning part of the brain is damaged and you cannot set priorities.

Cerberus being "scum" is irrelevant. They were fighting agasint the reapers, that's what's important.
TIM obsessed with power? Not factual, just your impression.

Reaper tech can indoctrinate? Not always, and even if it does EVERY SINGLE TIME we did study it we ended up with a big advantage (IFF, Thanix, EDI, Arrival warning)

Um it is fact. *cough* Mass effect 3 plot! *cough* 

But anyway keep on arguing on this topic. I hope you realize that its pointless to defend your choice here, because everyone knows at this point that it was the wrong choice. All you're doing is trying to save face, and frankly its hilarious. 

Too true and person has to have his/her head up in their bums to not see what Illusive Man really is.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Um it is fact. *cough* Mass effect 3 plot! *cough* 

But anyway keep on arguing on this topic. I hope you realize that its pointless to defend your choice here, because everyone knows at this point that it was the wrong choice. All you're doing is trying to save face, and frankly its hilarious. 

Nope, no fact. TIM wants the survival of humanity at all costs. Wanting any advantage is not evil.

And no, it's not pontless. There is nothing to defend, as the logic behind the choice is flawless. The consequences are another matter altogether.
Hindsight is ultimatively irrelevant.

[Draconis6666]

mummio2 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

True but it just furthers an already proven track record, even if ALL of it is bad luck that still means Cerberus has REALLY bad luck with its experiments and is not the person to give Reaper tech to for study.

Sorry i edited, anyway...

I made a good use of jack as the biotic member into the collectors base
in ME2, and the jack's biotic powers were upgrated by cerberus

Actualy thanks for pointing that out, since its another Cerberus experiment that went horribly wrong and ended up with almost everyone dead and the primary subject of the experiment set lose on the galaxy to cause mayhem