138 réponses à ce sujet

[The_11thDoctor]

The OP is insane... Its an ad and they're all fine. ME3 is about a war and taking back the earth and saving organics... what are you crying about? Just dont watch it if great CG bothers you...

[Exia001]

Keep your expectations low
and/or

Dont look at the leaked stuff, I am in the middle ground. Ive seen things I like and things I dont but I am certainly not going to spoil myself, when the game is out in the US for four days I am stasying away from BSN and youtube

[Farbautisonn]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I really do have a terribly hard time caring about any of these threads. Initially when I started to see more articles and videos about ME3 I came on here and was assaulted by the sheer barrage of negative threads (such as yours). I'd post and I'd post about how the game wasn't even out yet and thus no one had any real cause to get upset.

I'd post and I'd post about the fact that marketing for the ME series has always been misleading. I'd comment on how assumptions were bad and insults toward other people were the absolute wrong way to present your opinion. I'd describe why people shouldn't get worked up over something they haven't experienced and about how many things Bioware have done to fix games based on fan complaint (even after joining EA).

But then I decided I just didn't care enough anymore about appeasing each and every person that got worked up over this stuff. OP if you want to believe that ME3 is going to suck donkey balls worse than Homefront go right ahead. I'm not going to stop you.

God I'm tired of these.
 

I read your posts. They were good, factual and to the point. +1 internets. +1 internets more for effort.

But....

We are here because we care. Alot of the regulars on this board and the board that preceeded it has been following Bioware for more than a decade. Loving their games. Loving their storytelling. We might not have agreed with them on some issues but generally speaking we have been quite happy in our "relationship" with Bio.

Enter DA2. Now I havent played it myself, but from what I hear from old timers with a background in Pen and Paper, old timer Bio afficionados I know in real life, that was a significant step backward from DAO. They "****ed and moaned" here and hoped that Bio would pick up on that message. "More storytelling, stick with your roots". And then we get the SP demo for a franchise we have been following like zealots for a long time, loyally buying it and the DLCs. And we see the ghosts of DA2 again. The Demo doesnt show the emphasis on storytelling we are used to. It does however show emphasis on shooting the crap out of bots. That has us scared.

Arrival wasnt that bad. Despite its focus on shooting crap, it was a more or less nessesary end to bring us toward ME3. And it did have some fine points that I for one hailed. Being able to sneak into a base without fireing a single shot? I friggen loved that part. I allways tried to play my toons more of the "Hitman" type playstyle than the "Quake style. nail everything that you can kill". Absolutely loved it even if it was only a glimmer of what I could have hoped for. 

But the SP demo? A demo is generally used to showcase a game and its mechanics. You usually do not peddle a demo that is significantly different from the end product, unless you have stated so explicitly somewhere. A 30 min intro to the series with 2 dialogue options? That does not bode well. Especially since no official word has come out that states as absolute canon "The dialogue and story has been cut because we wanted to showcase "x".

Im used to going to the candy storé and getting a waffle with many flavors and a heavy focus on pistacio (storytelling). Now the store owner gives me a free sample and says "Try the new flavors, they are better than the old ones" and I get a bland icecream with something that looks like pistacio but tastes like rhubarb. That makes me weary of ordering my favorite icecream.

[GuardianAngel470]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Almost every complaint has a basis in evidence. If you can see it, then the complaint is valid. Whether it matters to you is a totally different issue.

Happy thoughts and wishful thinking are not going to change the game. The demo is it just like it was with DA2. Are you really suprised that when the most hyped title of 2012 turns out looking like this people feel compelled to complain?

If the things they complain about don't bother you, just ignore them. But being an appologist or saying things like "It's only a demo" is only going to add fuel to the fire.

Indeed, almost every complaint does have a basis in evidence. The problem arises when the complaint (or justification) doesn't fit the evidence. If you're given an hour of obviously edited gameplay and you don't like it that's fine. You are perfectly allowed to criticize the things that hour emphasized. In this case, the emphasis was on combat with very very little in the way of story (as is even noted by detractors).

An example of a valid criticism is the faster paced combat system. If you don't like the pace or you don't like the mechanics, you're allowed to voice that opinion and it would be a valid criticism based on your own personal opinion.

What you logically aren't allowed to do is conclude irrevocably that the other 19+ hours of game are terrible based on that one hour. You aren't allowed to conclude that elements that weren't emphasized in that hour that you played are indicative of the entire rest of the game.

An example would be claiming that there will be no exploration in ME3 at all because there wasn't any in the demo.

It's the difference between knowledge and deduction. I'll illustrate it for you.

KNOWLEDGE:

"The story in this demo leaves a lot to be desired."

DEDUCTION:

"The story in ME3 leaves a lot to be desired."

If you've played the demo from beginning to end you have all the knowledge you need to make the first statement. It would still be your opinion, but it would be a valid opinion.

However because no player on this forum can truthfully say that they have played Mass Effect 3 from beginning to end they cannot make the second comment. They have not experienced first hand the entirety of the game and thus do not actually KNOW if the story leaves a lot to be desired.

They could easily be right but the reverse is also true.

[myd00m]

matt-bassist wrote...

I don't like being negative, I'm generally a positive person, but with every bit of info I read/watch about ME3, I just get so angry and disappointed.  I'm sorry for being so negative but I went from having such high, positive expectations for this game (to bring the best of ME1 and ME2 and merge them together to form ME3), to getting depressed with each new info release.

this CGI trailer is the latest in a long line of depressing marketing for the game in an attempt to attract the KABOOM EXPLOSION kiddie crowd and i'm so sick of it now. It's just so obvious it's embarrasing for BioWare. I feel embarresed FOR BioWare. 

EA really has cut off your balls.

I'm angry. Sorry.

ur not akone

[GuardianAngel470]

Farbautisonn wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I really do have a terribly hard time caring about any of these threads. Initially when I started to see more articles and videos about ME3 I came on here and was assaulted by the sheer barrage of negative threads (such as yours). I'd post and I'd post about how the game wasn't even out yet and thus no one had any real cause to get upset.

I'd post and I'd post about the fact that marketing for the ME series has always been misleading. I'd comment on how assumptions were bad and insults toward other people were the absolute wrong way to present your opinion. I'd describe why people shouldn't get worked up over something they haven't experienced and about how many things Bioware have done to fix games based on fan complaint (even after joining EA).

But then I decided I just didn't care enough anymore about appeasing each and every person that got worked up over this stuff. OP if you want to believe that ME3 is going to suck donkey balls worse than Homefront go right ahead. I'm not going to stop you.

God I'm tired of these.
 

I read your posts. They were good, factual and to the point. +1 internets. +1 internets more for effort.

But....

We are here because we care. Alot of the regulars on this board and the board that preceeded it has been following Bioware for more than a decade. Loving their games. Loving their storytelling. We might not have agreed with them on some issues but generally speaking we have been quite happy in our "relationship" with Bio.

Enter DA2. Now I havent played it myself, but from what I hear from old timers with a background in Pen and Paper, old timer Bio afficionados I know in real life, that was a significant step backward from DAO. They "****ed and moaned" here and hoped that Bio would pick up on that message. "More storytelling, stick with your roots". And then we get the SP demo for a franchise we have been following like zealots for a long time, loyally buying it and the DLCs. And we see the ghosts of DA2 again. The Demo doesnt show the emphasis on storytelling we are used to. It does however show emphasis on shooting the crap out of bots. That has us scared.

Arrival wasnt that bad. Despite its focus on shooting crap, it was a more or less nessesary end to bring us toward ME3. And it did have some fine points that I for one hailed. Being able to sneak into a base without fireing a single shot? I friggen loved that part. I allways tried to play my toons more of the "Hitman" type playstyle than the "Quake style. nail everything that you can kill". Absolutely loved it even if it was only a glimmer of what I could have hoped for. 

But the SP demo? A demo is generally used to showcase a game and its mechanics. You usually do not peddle a demo that is significantly different from the end product, unless you have stated so explicitly somewhere. A 30 min intro to the series with 2 dialogue options? That does not bode well. Especially since no official word has come out that states as absolute canon "The dialogue and story has been cut because we wanted to showcase "x".

Im used to going to the candy storé and getting a waffle with many flavors and a heavy focus on pistacio (storytelling). Now the store owner gives me a free sample and says "Try the new flavors, they are better than the old ones" and I get a bland icecream with something that looks like pistacio but tastes like rhubarb. That makes me weary of ordering my favorite icecream.

I understand that and all of that is perfectly valid. I didn't play either DAO or DA2 so I don't know what happened there with the demo and such. Being semi-regular here though I have heard all the horror stories and have read several articles about what happened.

All I'm trying to point out with those posts is that you do not know what you do not know. It is perfectly valid to be worried based on past experience. It is perfectly valid to see writing on the wall (if it's there) but what I tried to point out is that it is not valid to state your fears as fact.

It is also not valid to state your rationale (for or against the game) as fact. When people state the game WILL suck based on what they experienced with the demo that just reads to me like fear mongering. I see the reasoning. I understand the complaints. I even sympathize with many of them.

But I can't agree with any assumption being stated as fact. For me, that was the most important Pro Tip.

[AkiKishi]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Almost every complaint has a basis in evidence. If you can see it, then the complaint is valid. Whether it matters to you is a totally different issue.

Happy thoughts and wishful thinking are not going to change the game. The demo is it just like it was with DA2. Are you really suprised that when the most hyped title of 2012 turns out looking like this people feel compelled to complain?

If the things they complain about don't bother you, just ignore them. But being an appologist or saying things like "It's only a demo" is only going to add fuel to the fire.

Indeed, almost every complaint does have a basis in evidence. The problem arises when the complaint (or justification) doesn't fit the evidence. If you're given an hour of obviously edited gameplay and you don't like it that's fine. You are perfectly allowed to criticize the things that hour emphasized. In this case, the emphasis was on combat with very very little in the way of story (as is even noted by detractors).

An example of a valid criticism is the faster paced combat system. If you don't like the pace or you don't like the mechanics, you're allowed to voice that opinion and it would be a valid criticism based on your own personal opinion.

What you logically aren't allowed to do is conclude irrevocably that the other 19+ hours of game are terrible based on that one hour. You aren't allowed to conclude that elements that weren't emphasized in that hour that you played are indicative of the entire rest of the game.

An example would be claiming that there will be no exploration in ME3 at all because there wasn't any in the demo.

It's the difference between knowledge and deduction. I'll illustrate it for you.

KNOWLEDGE:

"The story in this demo leaves a lot to be desired."

DEDUCTION:

"The story in ME3 leaves a lot to be desired."

If you've played the demo from beginning to end you have all the knowledge you need to make the first statement. It would still be your opinion, but it would be a valid opinion.

However because no player on this forum can truthfully say that they have played Mass Effect 3 from beginning to end they cannot make the second comment. They have not experienced first hand the entirety of the game and thus do not actually KNOW if the story leaves a lot to be desired.

They could easily be right but the reverse is also true.

Why are you not allowed to do that ? If you have seen it already then there is certianly more of a probability of that being the case , than someone who comes along and says "Igonre everything you saw, it will be ok in the full release".

You have even less "right" to be allowed to say that than complainers because it's only your wishful thinking and nothing else to back it.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 février 2012 - 11:40 .

[Farbautisonn]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
I understand that and all of that is perfectly valid. I didn't play either DAO or DA2 so I don't know what happened there with the demo and such. Being semi-regular here though I have heard all the horror stories and have read several articles about what happened.

All I'm trying to point out with those posts is that you do not know what you do not know. It is perfectly valid to be worried based on past experience. It is perfectly valid to see writing on the wall (if it's there) but what I tried to point out is that it is not valid to state your fears as fact.

It is also not valid to state your rationale (for or against the game) as fact. When people state the game WILL suck based on what they experienced with the demo that just reads to me like fear mongering. I see the reasoning. I understand the complaints. I even sympathize with many of them.

But I can't agree with any assumption being stated as fact. For me, that was the most important Pro Tip.

- Youre right. I dont "know". But I am given a demo that is supposed to be in some way representative of the game. I cant recognize the level of interaction and storytelling I got from ME1 and 2 from the demo. That is not reassuring. I see more "hack and slash" than "RPG". More "Diablo" than "Baldurs Gate".

If this is done to get the console crowd to buy the game for the MP part, then I get it. Its trying to branch out and trying to vye for a new and very profitable client base. They buy many games, and they buy often.  But it seems as if the "regulars" are being taken for granted, if we are to go by the impression peddled by the Demo.

We wont know facts untill we have played the game. Thats absolutely correct.

However if we play the game and our fears are realized, we, the regulars, will start looking for other suppliers. And as any student of economics will tell you, disregarding you core competances and core client base, especially in a time of fiscal crisis, is an extremely poor move. Bio has survived and thrived so far because of its storytelling. Not because of its "1337" fps mechanics or because of its graphics. 

[GuardianAngel470]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Why are you not allowed to do that ? If you have seen it already then there is certianly more of a probability of that being the case , than someone who comes along and says "Igonre everything you saw, it will be ok in the full release".

You have even less "right" to be allowed to say that than complainers because it's only your wishful thinking and nothing else to back it.

What I'm saying is that BOTH sides who do this are wrong. You can expect the game to be something, you can worry that it will be bad based on EVIDENCE given in the demo but you don't KNOW that it's bad until you've played the full game.

Similarly you can expect the game to be amazing based on the EVIDENCE given in ME1 and ME2 but you don't KNOW that the game will be good until the you've played the full game.

In the case of these boards for the last few weeks both sides have been making a LOT of assumptions and then promptly getting really worked up about them. Then they come on here and post about those assumptions, usually stating them as fact, inciting a reaction from the opposing fanbase who then proceed to make their own assumptions and get worked up about THEM.

Then both sides start thrashing each other over what amounts to a very, very small amount of hard facts.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 20 février 2012 - 12:01 .

[DaJe]

Tazzmission wrote...

SliPaladin wrote...

What was so bad about the ****ing trailer? Really? Can't you people appreciate anything? It's the war for Earth, war for the galaxy, everyone si facing extinction for ****s sake so what do you expect to see in a trailer of a game like that?

op probably expects a 5 million dollar star wars cgi budget.


i mean seriously the trailer was fine and i do really think people can be ungratefull alot.

I think many simply don't understand what it's about. I'm pretty sure the op means that there is no artfully crafted emotional experience being presented here. It's all about in your face action. Movies like the Transformers series show that you can throw a hundred explosion at the audience but it doesn't make it cooler, it takes away impact. If you only see action without anything inbetween to give it meaning, it becomes dull.

The op is not complaining about visual quality or lack of budget, I'm pretty sure of that.
Not even the GoW trailers are just BAM BAM BAM ACTION IN YO FACE! In fact they are quite the opposite, which creates anticipation.
EA is trying too hard and underestimate the complexity of what makes action appealing. So far none of the marketing actually tried to create emotional attachment. For a series like ME, that is unfortunate, and it reflects the direction EA is pushing their games.

We shall see about the full CGI trailer. I'm quite looking forward to it.
EDIT: whoops, Didn't know the trailer is out yet.

Modifié par DaJe, 20 février 2012 - 12:11 .

[AkiKishi]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
What I'm saying is that BOTH sides who do this are wrong. You can expect the game to be something, you can worry that it will be bad based on EVIDENCE given in the demo but you don't KNOW that it's bad until you've played the full game.

Similarly you can expect the game to be amazing based on the EVIDENCE given in ME1 and ME2 but you don't KNOW that the game will be good until the you've played the full game.

In the case of these boards for the last few weeks both sides have been making a LOT of assumptions and then promptly getting really worked up about them. Then they come on here and post about those assumptions, usually stating them as fact, inciting a reaction from the opposing fanbase who then proceed to make their own assumptions and get worked up about THEM.

Then both sides start thrashing each other over what amounts to a very, very small amount of hard facts.

This is why demos are released.

I'll give you my experience of Kingdoms of Amular (since it's recent) 

Played the demo, liked it in general but it was glitchy and the animations looked "off" 

Did some looking around. Discovered official word the demo was an old build. Asked around a couple of days before the UK release ,someone told me that all the demo issues were fixed (they had no reason to lie).
Bought the game (from somewhere I could return it just in case). Been enjoying the game since UK release day.

Bioware not coming out and officially saying "it's an old build it's all fixed" is suspiscious. Just look at what was said about DA2 (It's in my sig) days before the release when it would have been known for a lot longer.

[swordmalice]

Random Jerkface wrote...

swordmalice wrote...

Alright; perhaps that was a bit polarizing, but the point I'm trying to make is: don't judge something based on a superficial view of it, i.e. the trailers. If you've got a bad feeling, that's fine, but don't damn the game to hell before you've had a chance to judge it first.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

On the other hand, I think BioWare has been holding themselves back when it comes to marketing Mass Effect. The focus on mindless action makes the games appear shallow, which is a discredit to the effort put into them. The "Distress Call" trailer is (in my opinion) the best piece of advertising to date; it was short and simple, but compelling and effective. I realise the game isn't marketed toward us, the current fans anymore (and really shouldn't be), but I don't see how making the game look derivative as possible does the franchise any services. Take Gears of War, for example, a series that this board just loves to complain about. The spots are both filled with action and emotionally charged, yet none of them spoil anything. Considering the wealth of its character and its expanse of the universe, Mass Effect would have even more to offer in this regard.

It doesn't affect my game or my opinion of the game, (and I don't think BioWare should change their marketing strategies to suit me) but it's an observation. Not even an issue. Just something I find curious.

I see what you're saying, and I think it's a good point. Bioware is more than capable of marketing Mass Effect in a more encompassing way, but for whatever reason they choose not too. I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic until I finish the game, though. I think we're going to have a great game, really I do. OP, try not to stress yourself out with it; even if you're not happy, it's just a game. Relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

[ODST 3]

Just take it easy with your expectations and try to enjoy the game for what it is. Know that it won't be what you envisioned but can still be cool.

[Almostfaceman]

Farbautisonn wrote...

We are here because we care. Alot of the regulars on this board and the board that preceeded it has been following Bioware for more than a decade. Loving their games. Loving their storytelling. We might not have agreed with them on some issues but generally speaking we have been quite happy in our "relationship" with Bio.

It's gone beyond caring and into spam. Creating numerous threads is only hindering the point. A valid complaint starts coming across like the little kid constantly complaining about his big brother hitting him while you're driving and they're in the back seats.

[Leafs43]

Hmmm an invasion of earth rather than have weapons and explosions should consist of puppy dogs and rainbows...amirite?


OP is just being dumb.

[Farbautisonn]

Almostfaceman wrote...

It's gone beyond caring and into spam. Creating numerous threads is only hindering the point. A valid complaint starts coming across like the little kid constantly complaining about his big brother hitting him while you're driving and they're in the back seats.

-I dont know if you've ever noticed this, either online or with kids of your own... but if you dont address the issues they do tend to expand and become more bothersome. Either with more threads or more whining.

[Almostfaceman]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

It's gone beyond caring and into spam. Creating numerous threads is only hindering the point. A valid complaint starts coming across like the little kid constantly complaining about his big brother hitting him while you're driving and they're in the back seats.

-I dont know if you've ever noticed this, either online or with kids of your own... but if you dont address the issues they do tend to expand and become more bothersome. Either with more threads or more whining.

I've noticed with my kids that issues addressed or not, endless whining is always a problem. And that's what the constant repetition of the same complaints becomes, immature childish whining. After a while nobody wants to listen to that.

[Farbautisonn]

Almostfaceman wrote...

I've noticed with my kids that issues addressed or not, endless whining is always a problem. And that's what the constant repetition of the same complaints becomes, immature childish whining. After a while nobody wants to listen to that.

-Im just going to let that stand in all of its glory

[matt-bassist]

Leafs43 wrote...

Hmmm an invasion of earth rather than have weapons and explosions should consist of puppy dogs and rainbows...amirite?


OP is just being dumb.

Why do all you guys who disagree with me use such extreme examples to refute my objections?? I'm not saying I want a trailer filled with rainbows, I'm not saying I want a 4 minute trailer of Shepard talking and I'm certainly not saying I want to be spoiled.

BioWare it seems, in it's ME3 marketing campaign, has lost their ability to produce a narrative, a structure in their advertisements.

The beginning of the trailer is good, the little girl playing in the field, the Reapers arriving and attacking. That's fine. But after that it goes into a big mess of a fight, with no context as to what is going on. It's just fighting and explosions. 

Why not cut from the Reapers attacking Earth to Shep on the Normandy, giving a short speech about survival at any cost, cut to some shots of Garrus, Ashley, Liara etc, nodding and agreeing with him. Then have the shuttle land on the devestated field, the door opens and Shep says "we have to stop them. this ends now." etc etc and he steps out with his squad behind him, followed by hundreds of other drop ships landing behind him... he looks at his squad and there is a quiet calm... Shep looks down and sees the toy plane (he knows that at least one child has died here) then suddenly the husks attack and cut to ME3 logo.

I would've ****ed my pants at a trailer like that.

[Dreadwing 67]

the basic argument from threads like these is "omg EXPLOSIONS CROWD, dis is Mass Effect, no explosions. I know ders Reapers but no, dat no MY mass effect" or something like that. Idk, my head is spinning.

Also that was a t.v. segment, full trailer tomorrow.

[bigbade]

haha rhet???

are you on the multi?

[Rockworm503]

Saints_ wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

daaaaaawwww, you gonna cry now?

grow the **** up.

Derp what does **** mean?

[android654]

Exia001 wrote...Keep your expectations low

That's one of the emptiest arguments, and people inisit on using it. If you're going to spend anything, be it money, time or energy, you should have standards as to what you will or wont accept.

[mkk316]

The point of the trailer is to show the war on an epic scale, and that the Reaper issue has gone beyond being just Shep and his team's problem, and it did that well.