89 réponses à ce sujet

[TheLostGenius]

It's fairly obvious that TIM is in it for power, much like Saren was. He would be very easy to indoctrinate, and is one of the most powerful and resourceful "humans" in the galaxy. It would make sense if he likely defected or was indoctrinated by the Reapers, promising him some kind of strange empire over the genocide, or much like Saren will be fooled into believing that the Reapers will spare some of humanity, since destruction is envitable. The whole Cereberus as the non-Reaper nemesis is very suspect.

Evidence:

Main threat in ME1 - The Geth, controlled by Saren who is controlled by Soverign

Main threat in ME2 - The Collector's, controlled by the collector general who is controled by Harbinger

Main threat in ME3 - Cereberus, controlled by TIM who is controlled by ??????


See what I'm getting at? Realize I'm making assumptions, but Cereberus has essentially been insanely evil (ME1 FTW) since the beginning, somehow both plots have to potentially be concluded here, it stands to reason that Cereberus is working with the Reapers (maybe TIM thinks he can beat them if he cooperates at first).

Feel free to add or critique this as much as you like, or point out any relevant flaws. FYI, I've done about 8 full playthroughs of ME2, and about 6 full playthroughs of ME1, so I know the game inside out practically, and have at times seen predictability in the storyline, THOUGH NOT IN CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! 

[TheLostGenius]

You are missing the point, each was a selected Avatar race used by the Reapers. Main threat is the Reapers, direct threat is the race they control. Same difference, lets split hairs.

[GodWood]

What did they do in ME1 that was 'insanely evil' ?

[GodWood]

Also, why did you label your speculation as a "series breaking spoiler" ?

[GodWood]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Also, why did you label your speculation as a "series breaking spoiler" ?

I think because he thinks he found the "code" or something to Cerberus' REAL motives and actions in ME3.

But come on, he's done 8 full playthroughs. Obviously he's more enlightened then the rest of us plebeian scum.


Now I'm being mean.

[GodWood]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
And yes, GodWood, you should feel bad.

I think we scared him off.


Sorry little fella.

[ElementL09]

I know the collectors are former Protheans, but is the Collector General a former Protheans as well?

I don' think it would matter if the Illusive Man got indocturnated, the reapers are already here.

[myd00m]

TheLostGenius wrote...

It's fairly obvious that TIM is in it for power, much like Saren was. He would be very easy to indoctrinate, and is one of the most powerful and resourceful "humans" in the galaxy. It would make sense if he likely defected or was indoctrinated by the Reapers, promising him some kind of strange empire over the genocide, or much like Saren will be fooled into believing that the Reapers will spare some of humanity, since destruction is envitable. The whole Cereberus as the non-Reaper nemesis is very suspect.

Evidence:

Main threat in ME1 - The Geth, controlled by Saren who is controlled by Soverign

Main threat in ME2 - The Collector's, controlled by the collector general who is controled by Harbinger

Main threat in ME3 - Cereberus, controlled by TIM who is controlled by ??????


See what I'm getting at? Realize I'm making assumptions, but Cereberus has essentially been insanely evil (ME1 FTW) since the beginning, somehow both plots have to potentially be concluded here, it stands to reason that Cereberus is working with the Reapers (maybe TIM thinks he can beat them if he cooperates at first).

Feel free to add or critique this as much as you like, or point out any relevant flaws. FYI, I've done about 8 full playthroughs of ME2, and about 6 full playthroughs of ME1, so I know the game inside out practically, and have at times seen predictability in the storyline, THOUGH NOT IN CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! 

saren hates humans, he was looking for a way to save some organics from being harvested. Also cerebrus isnt evil, they were exposed to reaper metal which bends organics to their will. Also reapers are gods who put organics in the universe to harvest and are far beyond what organic life can comprehend. so evil becomes a matter of opinion that is bias to main characters agenda. organic life is just cattle they farm. unfortunateluy me2 made a joke of the first games story.

Modifié par myd00m, 20 février 2012 - 09:20 .

[G3rman]

D-roy wrote...

TiM is a schemer.

He's only faking the alliance with the reapers to get access to a particular device that is necessary to finish building the crucible.

And it is possible to resist the indoctrination. Saren proved this.

He did the same as Benezia and staved it off, he couldn't get rid of it permanently.  Once you're indoctrinated it will never go away.

[TheLostGenius]

GodWood wrote...

What did they do in ME1 that was 'insanely evil' ?

Do yourself an enormous favor and play ME1. They practically set up the sequel to have Cereberus as the enemy, then OMG plot twist, then it happens in 3.

It said in each Extinction the reapers choose one race to "use". It's quite possible that TIM brokered a deal with the Reapers, and some subtle indoctrination has turned him. For example he got his hands on his Reaper technology and through indoctrination believes he is controlling a Reaper, however it i actually controlling him, and via proxy his company.

[TheLostGenius]

ElementL09 wrote...

I know the collectors are former Protheans, but is the Collector General a former Protheans as well?

I don' think it would matter if the Illusive Man got indocturnated, the reapers are already here.

The Collector General controlled the Collector's via some kind of HIve Mind, the only collector that was directly indoctrinated by Harbinger was the General, his army was controlled through the General via proxy. Not half as cool as Saren, not even by a mile.

[MrMcDoll]

I like to think that Cerberus are the universe's only hope and that my shepard has been dicking around foiling the only plans that will assure humanity's survival - because he is a giant raging moralf*g.
It's fun to imagine that Bioware could go all baldurs gate on us and make you think that you are doing the 'right' thing and have it actually cause more misery in the long run. (can't actually remember which quest it was in BG2 that was like that.. maybe silver dragon?)

Modifié par MrMcDoll, 20 février 2012 - 11:35 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Very much doubt ol' Jack Harper was dense enough to allow himself personally into indoctrination distance of any one Reaper for an extended period of time. More likely he's voluntarily allying with them like the Shadow Broker did, only doing so in order to stab them in the back.

I do get your logic, though, since it seems to be ME tradition by now:

MAIN ENEMY GRUNT FORCE --> MAJOR ENEMY CHARACTER --> ACTUAL MAIN ENEMY (REAPER)
Geth --> Saren --> Sovereign
Collectors --> Collector General --> Harbinger
Cerberus --> The Illusive Man --> The Reapers

And that does appear to be the "pattern" in this game as well, although that doesn't necessarily mean indoctrination at all. It should be mentioned that if the pattern holds, the "Actual Main Enemy" might just wind up fighting us by, ahem, ASSUMING direct control over the Major Enemy Character's body (as has happened with both Saren and the Collector General). Hyper Indoctrinated Super Illusive Man, anyone? =3

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 20 février 2012 - 11:51 .

[pnakasone]

Tim is too canny to directly involve himself with captured tech. What likely happened is the tech that was salvage from the Collectors side of the omega 4 relay was bobby trapped and by the time he caught on to what was happening he had lost control of a good part of Cereberus.

Either that or he forgot the rule a bought making deals with beings that consider all other life a resource to be harvested. Such beings have rarely upheld their end of the bargain to the letter. If you are lucky it means you get consumed last.

Oh Tim the reapers have been playing this game a long time odds are that many other haves tried to cut deals with them. Both with and with out the idea of turning on them at some point. How well did they do?

Modifié par pnakasone, 20 février 2012 - 01:52 .

[TheLostGenius]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Very much doubt ol' Jack Harper was dense enough to allow himself personally into indoctrination distance of any one Reaper for an extended period of time. More likely he's voluntarily allying with them like the Shadow Broker did, only doing so in order to stab them in the back.

I do get your logic, though, since it seems to be ME tradition by now:

MAIN ENEMY GRUNT FORCE --> MAJOR ENEMY CHARACTER --> ACTUAL MAIN ENEMY (REAPER)
Geth --> Saren --> Sovereign
Collectors --> Collector General --> Harbinger
Cerberus --> The Illusive Man --> The Reapers

And that does appear to be the "pattern" in this game as well, although that doesn't necessarily mean indoctrination at all. It should be mentioned that if the pattern holds, the "Actual Main Enemy" might just wind up fighting us by, ahem, ASSUMING direct control over the Major Enemy Character's body (as has happened with both Saren and the Collector General). Hyper Indoctrinated Super Illusive Man, anyone? =3

Thank you, yes its quite possible I made some assumptions, but based on the Cereberus presence thus far, it seems likely they are the main candidate for betraying humanity. TIM's obesession with gaining Reaper technology in ME2 was very uncanny.

[Ksandor]

I think TIM was indoctrinated at the beginning by Reaper machines as told in the Mass Effect Evolution comic. Pretty obvious but it detracts from TIM's strength of character. If he was NOT indoctrinated and was just a charismatic villain who is nobody's toy than it would be great. Now it's kinda "Hey look! TIM is indoctrinated too!"

Mordin: Why don't we indoctrinate the Reapers with cheap human TV commercials or stupid politicians?
Shepard: Nah, they are used to it. Maybe they accidentally indoctrinated themselves millions of years ago. Well certainly they have a twisted mind!

Modifié par Ksandor, 20 février 2012 - 02:27 .

[eye basher]

I'm gonna say it now the Illusive man will be the reason why we beat the reapers.

[darkdruid117]

D-roy wrote...

TiM is a schemer.

He's only faking the alliance with the reapers to get access to a particular device that is necessary to finish building the crucible.

And it is possible to resist the indoctrination. Saren proved this.

I do not remember the crucible ever being described. I doubled checked the Wiki to make sure I did not miss something but I am fairly certain that it was never talked about. The only time I have seen/heard about it is from the "The Art of The Mass Effect Universe"

[TheLostGenius]

eye basher wrote...

I'm gonna say it now the Illusive man will be the reason why we beat the reapers.

You have been greatly deceived.