87 réponses à ce sujet

[Malkut]

"MOAR PLZ" is more like a request than actual criticism.

[HoLyEmperor]

Malkut wrote...

"MOAR PLZ" is more like a request than actual criticism.

To whom it may concern:

I really liked your game, but I'd like more please.  If I don't get more, I'm going to quit playing and troll your boards until I get more.

Sincerely,

Me.

[Devilsway]

Keep in mind the game has just launched this month. If you were wise and picked it up none console you have all sorts of player additions to look forward too. I'm looking forward to future crawls and various other quests. That being said I feel that more loot selections could have been made available but over all I'm satisfied. Here's to the long road ahead.

Modifié par Devilsway, 25 novembre 2009 - 06:55 .

[darrenecm]

I think a lot of people are building up 'Straw Man' arguments (Google straw man if you aren't familiar with this logical fallacy) in defending against DA being 'sand-box' with their instant assumptions that it would ruin the game. There are also a lot of 'Ad Hominim' (again Google it) from people throwing more straw man arugments against the OP when they say he is simply asking for 'more'. He isn't asking for more, he's simply asking for replacing loading screens with seamless transitions to other areas found in DA. There's no reason why a more seamless world in DA would ruin the gameplay, all it would do is remove a lot of the gameplay interrupting loading screens.

I too find it a bit odd that many small houses (most notably in Denerim) need loading screens to enter them. Isn't this loading screen style of chopping up playing areas an artefact of older games that were running on less graphically and CPU capable hardware? It's these areas that need to be seamless, not necessarily the entire Ferelden map area?

Why are so many people assuming that with loading screens gone, the quests, story, dialogue, interaction and everything else good about DA would instantly suffer? No explanations are given as to how, only sweeping statements that they would become Oblivion or Fallout 3, which have completely different methods of story telling and quest mechanics. There's no need to adopt the same story and quest mechanics as these games.

Surely it's possible, and desirable, to have both the story and quest mechanics of DA twinned with a more seamless environment. It doesn't have to be at the spacial extremes found in Oblivion or Fallout 3., just more open to the point of not having to rely on so much 'loading screen' interruption?

I for one hope Bioware's future engines move towards a less 'loading screen' heavy architecture for their levels. With any luck,  the Star Wars Old Republic MMO Bioware is working on will have seamless world software technology implemented in it and we might see this tech trickling down into its non-MMO RPGs?

Modifié par darrenecm, 25 novembre 2009 - 08:17 .

[StuartMarshall]

I thought the game had beautiful settings but like many they were a little... restricted and enclosed. I especially got annoyed when I couldn't walk up a tiny hill because of invisible rails and had to walk forward and circle around to get to the very spot I could have done by walking up the tiny hill.

I thought the Deep Roads were big enough even with the linear/circular paths but that the forest and wilds areas could have been expanded. Orzammar also was big enough with four or five distinct areas before even approaching the Deep Roads, compared to the market place, Alienage (tiny), The Pearl (tiny), and a few back alleys in Ferelden's biggest city. Denerim was indeed the disappointment of the game, I was at least expecting a docklands area full of crime and corruption.

I think what the OP means is there is a way to open up games like this without turning them into empty sandbox games.

Modifié par StuartMarshall, 25 novembre 2009 - 08:49 .

[Dark83]

darrenecm wrote...

He isn't asking for more, he's simply asking for replacing loading screens with seamless transitions to other areas found in DA. There's no reason why a more seamless world in DA would ruin the gameplay, all it would do is remove a lot of the gameplay interrupting loading screens.

Lies. He wants it to be like Oblivion, which has loading screens everywhere. Going to a shopping trip in town is an exercise in loading.

[salbine]

marshalleck wrote...
Leave the sandbox games to the sandbox experts, and the story focused games to the story experts. No reason to dilute excellence just for the sake of cross pollination.

Agreed. Accept that BioWare makes great cinematic games. If you're looking for a roleplaying/sandbox experience, you need to look elsewhere.

[Zenon]

This modular concept of zones has clearly advantages and disadvantages. One disadvantage may be, that Denerim doesn't give so much the feeling of being in Ferelden's big medieval metropolis.



The advantage is, that it is most likely much easier to add content by putting a symbol on the world map. And it means, that you don't need to run many miles to reach points of interest and action.



Coming to think of it: In ME you could always explore the whole landing area, except for special places like cities or spaceports. What did the community critics say? It was boring to drive around the planet surfaces so long. Now you jump directly to the points of interest and others complain...

[sparkyclarky24]

archonambroseus wrote...

sparkyclarky24 wrote...

look.

im not saying change the game - im saying improve it.

I just lost all interest in hearing you out.  Sorry.

Is there really a need to be like that? 

This game could be better than it is by simply offering slightly bigger places (i.e. denerim market with a few more roads and no loading screens for entering buildings) or the dalish elves main location being bigger, Also, theres no point denying that this game could be improved even if ever so slightly. 

I wish i'd never mentioned oblivion or fable now. All i meant was that the map is a big underwhelming and then when you go to a place, its small.
Theres always room for improvement, and it would have made the game a bit deeper and given the world a bigger feel.
Im not saying create an open world AT ALL. Im saying , use the current fomat but expand it. <_<

[sparkyclarky24]

StuartMarshall wrote...

I thought the game had beautiful settings but like many they were a little... restricted and enclosed. I especially got annoyed when I couldn't walk up a tiny hill because of invisible rails and had to walk forward and circle around to get to the very spot I could have done by walking up the tiny hill.

I thought the Deep Roads were big enough even with the linear/circular paths but that the forest and wilds areas could have been expanded. Orzammar also was big enough with four or five distinct areas before even approaching the Deep Roads, compared to the market place, Alienage (tiny), The Pearl (tiny), and a few back alleys in Ferelden's biggest city. Denerim was indeed the disappointment of the game, I was at least expecting a docklands area full of crime and corruption.

I think what the OP means is there is a way to open up games like this without turning them into empty sandbox games.

+

"I think a lot of people are building up 'Straw Man' arguments (Google straw man if you aren't familiar with this logical fallacy) in defending against DA being 'sand-box' with their instant assumptions that it would ruin the game. There are also a lot of 'Ad Hominim' (again Google it) from people throwing more straw man arugments against the OP when they say he is simply asking for 'more'. He isn't asking for more, he's simply asking for replacing loading screens with seamless transitions to other areas found in DA. There's no reason why a more seamless world in DA would ruin the gameplay, all it would do is remove a lot of the gameplay interrupting loading screens.

I too find it a bit odd that many small houses (most notably in Denerim) need loading screens to enter them. Isn't this loading screen style of chopping up playing areas an artefact of older games that were running on less graphically and CPU capable hardware? It's these areas that need to be seamless, not necessarily the entire Ferelden map area?

Why are so many people assuming that with loading screens gone, the quests, story, dialogue, interaction and everything else good about DA would instantly suffer? No explanations are given as to how, only sweeping statements that they would become Oblivion or Fallout 3, which have completely different methods of story telling and quest mechanics. There's no need to adopt the same story and quest mechanics as these games.

Surely it's possible, and desirable, to have both the story and quest mechanics of DA twinned with a more seamless environment. It doesn't have to be at the spacial extremes found in Oblivion or Fallout 3., just more open to the point of not having to rely on so much 'loading screen' interruption?

I for one hope Bioware's future engines move towards a less 'loading screen' heavy architecture for their levels. With any luck,  the Star Wars Old Republic MMO Bioware is working on will have seamless world software technology implemented in it and we might see this tech trickling down into its non-MMO RPGs?"

i couldnt have put it better myself.

Moar? im simply asking for "MOAR" you say? Pfft. 

Modifié par sparkyclarky24, 26 novembre 2009 - 07:50 .

[Dark83]

sparkyclarky24 wrote...

archonambroseus wrote...

sparkyclarky24 wrote...

look.

im not saying change the game - im saying improve it.

I just lost all interest in hearing you out.  Sorry.

Is there really a need to be like that?

He's being snarky because you were nonsensical.

How do you improve something without changing it?

[Wintermist]

I think it's very good as it is, but I've no doubts that an open world would work as well. But as it stands, there's nothing to complain about, the game's alive enough.

[sparkyclarky24]

Dark83 wrote...

sparkyclarky24 wrote...

archonambroseus wrote...

sparkyclarky24 wrote...

look.

im not saying change the game - im saying improve it.

I just lost all interest in hearing you out.  Sorry.

Is there really a need to be like that?

He's being snarky because you were nonsensical.

How do you improve something without changing it?

i should have worded it differently. Before i posted that, someone said i wanted to change the game completely.
so i was simply saying that i didnt want to make such an impact that will change the game drastically and make it different, just improve what is there and work on the things that were lacking (bear in mind i know this is all a case of opinion).
but yeah. it was a bit stupid to be like that. 

theres nothing wrong with a good debate

[ReubenLiew]

Something as major as this cannot be counted as 'improving it', open world games need to be designed to BE open world from the very get go. It cannot be 'tacked on' or added, and therefore this is not so much a creative critique as a statement of preference. A creative critique more in line with your request would be, I would like the city maps to be larger, with more places to visit, and houses that doesn't need transition points to enter. Open world games like Oblivion or Fallout or even Gothic, bless that game, needs to be decided early on in the development stages.

Better luck with the next game, though, maybe they'll take you up on your offer.

[sparkyclarky24]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Something as major as this cannot be counted as 'improving it', open world games need to be designed to BE open world from the very get go. It cannot be 'tacked on' or added, and therefore this is not so much a creative critique as a statement of preference. A creative critique more in line with your request would be, I would like the city maps to be larger, with more places to visit, and houses that doesn't need transition points to enter. Open world games like Oblivion or Fallout or even Gothic, bless that game, needs to be decided early on in the development stages.
Better luck with the next game, though, maybe they'll take you up on your offer.

True, but i need to clarify to people reading this.
i dont want open world, That would change the game completely and would perhaps ruin it.

what i am suggesting is the incorporation of elements of open world.. i.e. no loading screens to go inside buildings like taverns or shops. Less invisible barriers and more places open for exploration (off-quest locations .. dungeons, other villages etc) also , places like the brescilian forests and/or denerim should have much more space in the areas due to their supposed scope.

So the format which is current would remain the same, but with all the above.

[Minxie]

marshalleck wrote...

I think though that Denerim is the only time it really falls apart. That's supposed to be the largest city in all of Ferelden, and all we see is a market square and a few alleys?

Hmm, this.

During my second playthrough I took the time to really look at Denerim, and I noticed that it's really not that impressive of a city. All those ugly, plain buildings... The market would have been acceptable if there were more places in Denerim to explore, but that was the only place you could see, and then there's just back alleys and the Alienage slums. You get the impression that Denerim is just poor all around and not pleasing to the eye (and I expected something nicer from what Leliana had been telling me).
Redcliff wasn't much better.

Anyways I agree about the open spaces issue. I just would have liked a few extra areas so that you could get to know Ferelden better. Denerim should have had more varied districts the way Athkatla was designed in BG2. There ought to have been one more small town, maybe a place like Beregost from BG1 (I loved Beregost:kissing:).

[sparkyclarky24]

Minxie18 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I think though that Denerim is the only time it really falls apart. That's supposed to be the largest city in all of Ferelden, and all we see is a market square and a few alleys?

Hmm, this.

During my second playthrough I took the time to really look at Denerim, and I noticed that it's really not that impressive of a city. All those ugly, plain buildings... The market would have been acceptable if there were more places in Denerim to explore, but that was the only place you could see, and then there's just back alleys and the Alienage slums. You get the impression that Denerim is just poor all around and not pleasing to the eye (and I expected something nicer from what Leliana had been telling me).
Redcliff wasn't much better.

Anyways I agree about the open spaces issue. I just would have liked a few extra areas so that you could get to know Ferelden better. Denerim should have had more varied districts the way Athkatla was designed in BG2. There ought to have been one more small town, maybe a place like Beregost from BG1 (I loved Beregost:kissing:).

Makes you wonder why your army was so bothered to save it  

there needed to be some kind of docklands and upper class district (available from the start)

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Eliminating load transitions would be nice, but I'm not sure how it'd be possible to do. Even games like Oblivion and FO3, games which are hailed as "wide open" and "sandbox" are replete with load transitions. In Oblivion it was mainly evident when entering cities and from there, entering specific ships. In FO3 you could see it most obviously in the bombed out DC ruins, where the direct path was always blocked, forcing you to go through the subway. They did that so they wouldn't have to eat up even more of a console/PC's memory loading another huge cell when there's already one in the memory.



Now, granted, there are mods for the above games that eliminate the load transitions, but your computer needs to be massively more powerful to run them without any slowdown issues.



Honestly, load transitions don't bother me too much.

[MonkeyLungs]

The city should feel like a city. Denerim does not. Why put a city in your game at all if it's too much of a hassle to really build it?

[hawat333]

It's not oblivion age: origins. Nor Dragon Age: Oblivion.

Live with it.



I like BioWare games as they are. If I wanted to play a sandbox game I'd surely pick Oblivion. But I don't. There is no reason to change it and chase away the traditional BioWare player community.

There is place for improvement every now and then, but to change the basic settings, principals of a good 'ol fashioned BioWare RPG, in my opinion, wouldn't make sense.

[Dark83]

Bah, Oblivion's Imperial City hardly felt like a city either, though they dressed it up nicely.

At least Megaton is big. Morrowind had some brilliantly huge areas. Heck, the Imperial City seemed about as big as a single Dunmer House.

[ReubenLiew]

Morrowind's 'big' areas was mostly due to the fact that it had loads and loads of wasted space. The actual living spaces of people simply do not justify the need to make it so damn big (I'm, of course, talking about that silly Dark Elves city, whatever it's called) Sure it looks pretty impressive, but the actual areas that were worth looking at were a very, very tiny part of that massive structure.



Although I have seen some truly impressive, breathtaking and livingspace wise actually HUGE made by modders. Problem is that for the most part you won't be visiting 40% of these areas, or not even know they existed, because it's precisely too huge. It's nice to see so many places you could visit and all, but too many places overwhelms players, Bioware seems to have struck a sort of in-between to large explorable areas and closed, concise areas so you don't get too lost.

[sparkyclarky24]

hawat333 wrote...

It's not oblivion age: origins. Nor Dragon Age: Oblivion.
Live with it.

I like BioWare games as they are. If I wanted to play a sandbox game I'd surely pick Oblivion. But I don't. There is no reason to change it and chase away the traditional BioWare player community.
There is place for improvement every now and then, but to change the basic settings, principals of a good 'ol fashioned BioWare RPG, in my opinion, wouldn't make sense.

Im not asking for a sandbox game. im asking to make the current game style bigger. 
Theres not enough locations, and most are to small.

[slackbheep]

Haha, funny someone compared them I was literally in the middle of playing through Oblivion again, when I went to the store to pickup Dragon Age. They are two wonderful games but for very different reasons. I played Dragon Age and hung on every word, going over areas with a fine tooth comb so that I didn't miss delicious lore. On the other hand, while playing Oblivion, the majority of my time is spent stealing things from peoples houses, stabbing people, and attempting to make my character even more obscenely overpowered.

Assuming they could have made Dragon Age into the sandbox that Oblivion is without losing any of the story in translation, the game would have been in production for the benefit of whatever species evolves to take control of the Earth after we go extinct in 3100. It's sequel would be released sometime roughly in line with the andromeda and milky way galaxies merging. Unfortunately the ending of the trilogy will eventually be postponed as the universe achieves maximum entropy.

[fro7k]

I don't understand why people think making the locations larger has to mean the story gets neglected.