133 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

I like it the way it is. I hope it doesn't change in the final version.

[redafro]

staindgrey wrote...

Okay, quick topic to see if anyone feels the same.

I, like many, many others, hated the random unlocking system. I wanted to play the different races, and I wanted to do it now. Or at the very least, I wanted an unlocking system that gave me a clear objective, like "hit level 15, get a turian", or something.

But now, I've gotten about 35hrs into the demo. And I have three races, every weapon past v.IV, and I'm itching to unlock more. I tried to put that in perspective after I finally got my quarian.

See, when I unlocked that quarian in a veteran pack, I actually bursted out like a little kid over it. It wasn't a, "Finally, jeez..." It was more of a "OH! OH! OHHHH! **** YEAH! I got my quarian! Yes!" About 30hrs in. In Gears, a somewhat similar multiplayer/unlocking experience, I never had that reaction. Sure, it took until level.75 to unlock the best Carmine, and it took until lvl.100 to get the sweet golden omen skin, but it became more of a chore checklist than anything.

I checked on my Xbox Rewards site to see how much I've played Gears, and I'm nearly up to 500hrs, almost entirely in multiplayer. Judging by how much my friends and I are digging ME3's MP demo, I think it's safe to say I'll be going into the triple digits in hours playing. If that's so, then shouldn't I be glad that my race unlocks are few and far between? Maybe Bioware's smarter than I am. If I unlock all of them quickly, I'll gravitate to one or two races more, ignore the others, and burn out more quickly. But if I just keep buying packs, I'll play what I unlock when I unlock it. And if I keep up a 3-chars-every-30-hrs routine, then I'll have everything unlocked after a substantial amount of time playing. Isn't that kind of what I want to begin with?

Take my turian sentinel for example. He was my second unlock. I don't really like turians; if I had to pick with race I'd want to unlock last, it'd be turians. But because he was brand new, I dropped my other characters and just played him right away. Didn't like him at first, but that new character smell wouldn't go away. Now I've learned how to better utilize his powers and slower status, and while he's still not my *favorite*, I'm pretty damn good with him.

All this said, it would still be nice if race unlocks/upgrades happened a tad more frequently in the main game; I'm still just wanting a purple asari, dammit. <_<

i see your point but its still too much like grinding in some crappy f2p mmo for me and i have spend too much time doing that and no desire to do it ever again, i like having clear goals you can work towards. achieving a set goal i specificly worked towards gives me much more satisfactin then grinding veteran boxes for a chance of getting what i want but mostly just getting crap. it bores the hell out of me.

however, i am glad you find it a good system, at least some can enjoy it then so its not a total loss

[Lynata]

MrAnthonyDraft wrote...
It is fun, though, people who are used to getting what they want will not like this system because they are a lot more close minded then people who like randomly generated items.

Whoah there... By the same approach I could claim that people who prefer this randomness for the combination of incentive, hope and finally satisfaction these packs provide are easily manipulated by cheap psychological tricks designed to keep young kids hooked to a product.

Or maybe we should not try to come up with thinly veiled insults designed to belittle dissenting minds and just accept differing preferences as differing preferences. After all, they always say there is no accounting for taste.

Personally, if you want to blame something for my scepticism towards random unlocks, then blame my experience with dice. Many years of pen&paper have cultivated a strong superstition that Fortuna seems to have it out for me. Plus, I'm an avid roleplayer and as such place great value on player input and customization, basically anything that allows me to enhance a character's bonds to the expectations created by my creativity. Things such as class, species and gender are the bare minimum here.

How would you feel if ME1 would force you to complete the campaign as a male Soldier first before allowing you to pick another class/gender? If you got lucky and actually ended up unlocking one, that is. You may claim it's not the same as multiplayer is not about story. I say that story is everywhere you want it to be! 

Xaijin wrote...
Quite frankly there should be a mix of both.

A "mix of both" sounds like a neat idea, too. A "free" character selection at start would ensure everyone being equal in terms of a starting character, at least. Additional unlocks at level 20 are something to think about, too, although I can see that for some the "fun" of minmaxing barely started to go full throttle here, so allowing players to choose a weapon might be considered too easy. Another class, however...? Might tempt people to start a new character instead of continueing with the old one.

Someone else also mentioned the ability to simply purchase any kind of character for a huge sum of credits (100k was given as suggestion, I believe), which is something I'd prefer to the current situation as well. At least it would guarantee me the one true character I had in mind all along after just 1-2 evenings of playing, at the cost of foregoing any other unlocks.

Another idea that springs to mind ... Pokemon and all the other games used as an example here are also about trading cards, no? If that is so, perhaps there should be an option to exchange unlocks, at least with friends on Origin? This may help alleviate the issue somewhat and prevent the awkward situation of buddy A (who wants to play a Turian) unlocking a Krogan whereas buddy B (who wants to play a Krogan) unlocks a Turian.

I don't understand the people who dislike this sort of stuff being an option for others, given that they themselves would not have to avail of it and their precious randomness would not be threatened. But I suppose it gets easy to advocate the status quo when one isn't affected by its drawbacks as much.

@ NekOoNinja: *tips imaginary hat*

Modifié par Lynata, 21 février 2012 - 01:37 .

[darkblade]

I still completely hate the system, Its LP2 all over again.

But because i like the game im just going to grin and bear it.

[MythicLegands]

The store system is awful and i can't understand why people would actually like it.

Modifié par MythicLegands, 21 février 2012 - 04:22 .

[N172]

casedawgz wrote...

I said this a while back. I have NEVER, EVER, in 5 years of playing Mass Effect games, played an engineer. If I could have picked the unlocks I would earn, I would have picked a turian soldier and never looked back. However, my starter kit contained a quarian engineer. "What the hell," says I, why not give it a try? [...] Randomizing the unlocks encourages players to experiment with all facets of the game; weapons, classes, builds, et cetera. Someone who spends time with all of these different random unlocks will probably be a better player than someone who gets their krogan soldier in the starter kit and never touches anything else.

1. Most ppl dont get a class-unlock in their starter kit, so your case is rare anyway

2. I've never finished a sentinel playthrough (only did the first half of the cerberus station in ME2) and got a turian sentinel AFTER the asari adept (my favourite), he started at level 4 and now he is 12

3. Playing different classes is already encouraged by that N7-rating

4. They might successfully experiment or they will just suck because they want to play an alien but only got a class that does not suit their playstyle

5. Since you have a human unlocked for each class players will just stick with them if they get an unlock they dont want

In your case it resulted in you playing engineer, but most people might
a. Play every class they unlock or going for Level 20 in all 6 anyway
b. Stick with a human of their prefered class until they get one of the aliens
c. Loose interest due to frudstration

[Sharkey1337]

Totally agree with the OP, it just makes the game that more addicting in anxiously awaiting what I get in each pack.

[Dangerfoot]

I've got the same 5 Pokemon cards at least 20 times, so forgive me if this hardly seems fun. You can only have so many Ratatas in your deck before you stop trying.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I rather like the unlock system myself.

[QuarkZ26]

Lynata wrote...

Okay, I'll bite ...

I think the "problem" is people, being humans, have both different preferences (gameplay style) as well as different levels of patience. So, it's nice that the current system is working for you - and I mean that in all honesty! - but it should be understandable why not everyone agrees.

Quite a lot of people, at least amongst my roleplaying friends, began planning what class/species to play long before the demo was out, so understandably there was some disappointment when we found out that at least initially not all of us would have the privilege to play what they had wanted.

This is where the concept of class/species unlocks makes its first "mistake", unavoidable by design - by presenting a core selection of viable characters, those who planned on playing a human character will, depending on their choice of gender, start out with their expectations already fulfilled, whilst all others are shoehorned into a separate group of people who have to "grind" before being allowed to join the first. And sure, you might pick up interesting weapons and mods while you do this, but ultimately the character you are leveling has a good chance of being discarded and forgotten the moment you are unlocking that which you really wanted to play.

I guess the fear I have is that, in the full game, I may start to lose interest in MP before being allowed to create the character I had in mind. And whilst this may sound like a lame excuse, work doesn't leave me with as much spare time as I like, further limiting my ability to attain that which I seek to finally fill the role I intended when playing with my friends or in a pick-up-group.

The psychological trick of randomizing rewards to provide additional incentive, I think, never quite worked for me. I'm the kind of person not having played a single of those TCGs, and who went onto e-bay for aimed purchases of collectible miniatures taken out of random packs. By now, I have also unlocked the basic class/species combo I wanted to play in the demo, but instead of the surge of positive emotion that many of you seem to get, I was more like "finally, now I can start playing for real". And I don't expect this to change in the full game either, I'm only worried that it will take an even longer time to get to this point, not to mention unlock the customization options. Yes, I'm a pessimist when it comes to that sort of stuff.

I realize there was an announcement about unlocks coming quicker in the full game, but I also realize that another announcement mentioned at least twice as much stuff coming down the pipe, so that I am left with a feeling that it will kinda even itself out, just leaving me with more unlocks for stuff I don't need/use.

I also realize that the core purpose of the multiplayer part is to have fun in the actual game, but let's face it, for roleplayers in particular, a part of this fun comes from their connection to the character. But what connection is there, you may ask, to a character that only serves to "grind" the class that one actually wishes to play?
Plus, if the devs really thought this way we'd not have random unlocks in the first place. It is intentionally meant as a timesink, and one that - for me - feels unnecessary, perhaps even obstructive.In the end, I will have fun either way, I'm just pointing out which way I would have more fun.

Personally, I'd actually agree about the system being enjoyable if it were limited to weapons and other equipment, but by incorporating class/species options it just oversteps a certain line by attempting to dictate a player's character away from an option that he is simultaneously teased with as being "available, but locked".
This is likely reinforced by my long-standing wish for a pen&paper game or even an MMO set in the Mass Effect universe, as I am one of those crazy people who like coming up with fictional characters - and whilst the former two products have yet to be created, I came to see ME3's multiplayer portion as a first step; some quick and dirty fun I can enjoy playing as the Asari Commando I had in mind. 

So, for those who are left puzzled as to the why's, this is one user's opinion. There will be many others, because there are many other people playing this game, and they all have their own hopes, expectations and, when it comes to the store packs, "breaking points".

If the majority of players turns out to prefer this unlock system to a more open selection - which is entirely possible, given the popularity of the aforementioned TCGs and their effect on the population - then that's simply one bitter pill I'll have to swallow. But I do not think I will have the "change of heart" mentioned by the OP.

[edit] Basically, this

Totally agree. That is all.

[spirosz]

I just unlocked the Viper sniper and went "Holy ****!!!!!!!!!!!" ... now all I need is a Drell Adept, haha.

[Des0lace]

I like the unlock system. It makes playing addicting.

I wish though that the cosmetic upgrades you get when you unlock a character you already were better. I'd rather have REAL armor apperance changes instead of just adding a colored stripe to your armor's paint.

[QuarkZ26]

Lynata wrote...

MrAnthonyDraft wrote...
It is fun, though, people who are used to getting what they want will not like this system because they are a lot more close minded then people who like randomly generated items.

Whoah there... By the same approach I could claim that people who prefer this randomness for the combination of incentive, hope and finally satisfaction these packs provide are easily manipulated by cheap psychological tricks designed to keep young kids hooked to a product.

Or maybe we should not try to come up with thinly veiled insults designed to belittle dissenting minds and just accept differing preferences as differing preferences. After all, they always say there is no accounting for taste.

Personally, if you want to blame something for my scepticism towards random unlocks, then blame my experience with dice. Many years of pen&paper have cultivated a strong superstition that Fortuna seems to have it out for me. Plus, I'm an avid roleplayer and as such place great value on player input and customization, basically anything that allows me to enhance a character's bonds to the expectations created by my creativity. Things such as class, species and gender are the bare minimum here.

How would you feel if ME1 would force you to complete the campaign as a male Soldier first before allowing you to pick another class/gender? If you got lucky and actually ended up unlocking one, that is. You may claim it's not the same as multiplayer is not about story. I say that story is everywhere you want it to be! 

Xaijin wrote...
Quite frankly there should be a mix of both.

A "mix of both" sounds like a neat idea, too. A "free" character selection at start would ensure everyone being equal in terms of a starting character, at least. Additional unlocks at level 20 are something to think about, too, although I can see that for some the "fun" of minmaxing barely started to go full throttle here, so allowing players to choose a weapon might be considered too easy. Another class, however...? Might tempt people to start a new character instead of continueing with the old one.

Someone else also mentioned the ability to simply purchase any kind of character for a huge sum of credits (100k was given as suggestion, I believe), which is something I'd prefer to the current situation as well. At least it would guarantee me the one true character I had in mind all along after just 1-2 evenings of playing, at the cost of foregoing any other unlocks.

Another idea that springs to mind ... Pokemon and all the other games used as an example here are also about trading cards, no? If that is so, perhaps there should be an option to exchange unlocks, at least with friends on Origin? This may help alleviate the issue somewhat and prevent the awkward situation of buddy A (who wants to play a Turian) unlocking a Krogan whereas buddy B (who wants to play a Krogan) unlocks a Turian.

I don't understand the people who dislike this sort of stuff being an option for others, given that they themselves would not have to avail of it and their precious randomness would not be threatened. But I suppose it gets easy to advocate the status quo when one isn't affected by its drawbacks as much.

@ NekOoNinja: *tips imaginary hat*

I like you, i don't have to type long stuff because you do it all for me.

[SlottsMachine]

I still hope there is a standard unlocking system in addition to the mystery packs though.

[goofyomnivore]

I wish you could resell things back you didn't want for like 500 credits or something.

[SlottsMachine]

^

Or that.

[Walker White]

My only complaint is this: if it is going to be a CCG, I wish we could trade.

[Eragondragonrider]

The system is designed for OCD people that need to have everything, plus its just like crack for the MMO players so it will stay around. Think of it has a challenge and get every class to lvl 20 like I did then pick your favorite class and master it, to where you can play it with out a problem while being distract with Smex.

[SlottsMachine]

Walker White wrote...

My only complaint is this: if it is going to be a CCG, I wish we could trade.

Good ideas all over the place.

[AlphaJarmel]

 Looking forward to retail where it's going to be even harder to get classes as there will be more things to dilute it.

I do enjoy watching the self justification in this thread though.

[Joe_8998]

 

staindgrey wrote...

Okay, quick topic to see if anyone feels the same.

I, like many, many others, hated the random unlocking system. I wanted to play the different races, and I wanted to do it now. Or at the very least, I wanted an unlocking system that gave me a clear objective, like "hit level 15, get a turian", or something.

But now, I've gotten about 35hrs into the demo. And I have three races, every weapon past v.IV, and I'm itching to unlock more. I tried to put that in perspective after I finally got my quarian.

See, when I unlocked that quarian in a veteran pack, I actually bursted out like a little kid over it. It wasn't a, "Finally, jeez..." It was more of a "OH! OH! OHHHH! **** YEAH! I got my quarian! Yes!" About 30hrs in. In Gears, a somewhat similar multiplayer/unlocking experience, I never had that reaction. Sure, it took until level.75 to unlock the best Carmine, and it took until lvl.100 to get the sweet golden omen skin, but it became more of a chore checklist than anything.

I checked on my Xbox Rewards site to see how much I've played Gears, and I'm nearly up to 500hrs, almost entirely in multiplayer. Judging by how much my friends and I are digging ME3's MP demo, I think it's safe to say I'll be going into the triple digits in hours playing. If that's so, then shouldn't I be glad that my race unlocks are few and far between? Maybe Bioware's smarter than I am. If I unlock all of them quickly, I'll gravitate to one or two races more, ignore the others, and burn out more quickly. But if I just keep buying packs, I'll play what I unlock when I unlock it. And if I keep up a 3-chars-every-30-hrs routine, then I'll have everything unlocked after a substantial amount of time playing. Isn't that kind of what I want to begin with?

Take my turian sentinel for example. He was my second unlock. I don't really like turians; if I had to pick with race I'd want to unlock last, it'd be turians. But because he was brand new, I dropped my other characters and just played him right away. Didn't like him at first, but that new character smell wouldn't go away. Now I've learned how to better utilize his powers and slower status, and while he's still not my *favorite*, I'm pretty damn good with him.

All this said, it would still be nice if race unlocks/upgrades happened a tad more frequently in the main game; I'm still just wanting a purple asari, dammit. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

If you like the system the way it is, that is fine. That is your opinion. But to fail to acknowledge that the system isn't flawed, or to say that it is 'good' the way it is, is pretty stubborn. Even if you enjoy spending all the time in the world amassing credits and playing the slots, surely you can understand why that approach to gameplay is massively unsatisfying to someone who watched the multiplayer trailer and couldn't wait to play a Krogan, only to find out that it could literally require dozens of hours of time invested to be able to do that.

When we play Mass Effect, we aren't taking a class in critical thinking, or participating in a Theology debate. It is totally unimportant for us to "play the game from a different perspective" or "try classes we would not have played". Certainly if a player played the multiplayer with the same class and weapons constantly, they would eventually try a new class of their own accord? I sure as hell would. If anything, this system restricts our freedom, it certainly doesn't encourage it. So, why is it being forced on us, again?

To use your example with Gears, if you want to devote over 1000 hours to a single game, that is your perogative. But that is simply not something I am capable of. Even when I still went to high school, or when I was in college, I didn't have that kind of time to devote to a game. And honestly, I shouldn't have to do that to get to experience all the weapons and classes! If your psychological makeup is such that you are happier to randomly unlock your desired Quarian after 100 booster packs than to purchase it directly with credits, that is okay. But to many of us, that certainly sounds like a frustrating endeavor, and a cheap trick to artificially inflate our total play time.

There is no real reason for the game to play like this. Let me put it this way, if Bioware was to employ a conventional store instead of the booster pack style they have right now, you could still have the thrill of opening a booster pack of items.

All you would have to do is this: Open the store and close your eyes while scrolling through the items. Then press Enter and open your eyes. Congratulations , you just randomly selected an item! Now buy that item, and do that five more times to finish the "booster pack". Instead of buying items the boring way, you can enjoy it the way you want, with all the randomness you desire. See, now we both get what we want. That is fair, right?

[Jokerjake7]

People's main concerns are about the lack of new aliens right?
I wish you just started with em all and just unlocked weapons and stuff ( i do like the current system but you hsould be able to play as what you want) but veteran packs are for uncommon items right? which are the silver items while aliens are gold which would probably mean rare items so you are lucky to get them in a vet pack while the humans are blue (i.e. common) which explains why humans are more prominent in the demo and obviusly there will be a pack which gaurentees a rare item (making it easier to unlock characters as characters would probably be many of the rare items). I think they should do what EA did with Ultimate Team and allow players to sell things they don't want to other players,people can buy what they want and if you didn't want it you didn't waste credits

[MrAnthonyDraft]

Lynata wrote...

MrAnthonyDraft wrote...
It is fun, though, people who are used to getting what they want will not like this system because they are a lot more close minded then people who like randomly generated items.

Whoah there... By the same approach I could claim that people who prefer this randomness for the combination of incentive, hope and finally satisfaction these packs provide are easily manipulated by cheap psychological tricks designed to keep young kids hooked to a product.

Or maybe we should not try to come up with thinly veiled insults designed to belittle dissenting minds and just accept differing preferences as differing preferences. After all, they always say there is no accounting for taste.

Yeah, I kind of went overboard with my statment. Or I used term close minded people wrong. Anyway, I'm sorry for what I've said. But, I still believe the random unlocks for weapon/mods/class is a great idea.

Also, what other people have said. Since it s going to be like the card collecting games, they should implement trading feature. And this is where they went a bit stupid and didn't release ME3 on Steam, since it has that feature xD