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[SeminoleFarms]

Leafs43 wrote...

 The people that hated DA2 were the ones that couldn't reprise their homosexual pillow biting slave elf.

Heh heh heh! Or rather, those who liked DA2 were the people who thoroughly enjoy having homoerotica shoved down their, er, throat .... can I say that?

After the homoerotic B&D thing saving the Assassin in DA:Origins, I chuckled, uninstalled, and lost total interest in the franchise.

I mean really, I just want to play a game. I don't want to be schooled in alternative lifestyle appreciation. Seriously.

Modifié par SeminoleFarms, 20 février 2012 - 09:11 .

[John Locke N7]

uh oh, time to leave

[AtreiyaN7]

I liked DA2 even though it had a number of flaws like recycled maps (yes, that was a big one). As for how ME3 will be received, who knows? According to the constant <expletive deleted> on these forums, ME3 is going to be an abomination and the herald of the End Times (of RPGs). But I don't really hold the BSN or the opinions of various people here in high esteem, so I'm just getting the game and judging for myself as per usual. As for how the DA2 team will feel - happy that their company had success? If ME3 turns out to be a success that is.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

SeminoleFarms wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

 The people that hated DA2 were the ones that couldn't reprise their homosexual pillow biting slave elf.

Heh heh heh! Or rather, those who liked DA2 were the people who thoroughly enjoy having homoerotica shoved down their, er, throat .... can I say that?

After the homoerotic B&D thing saving the Assassin in DA:Origins, I chuckled, uninstalled, and lost total interest in the franchise.

I mean really, I just want to play a game. I don't want to be schooled in alternative lifestyle appreciation. Seriously.

Coulda just killed him. Seriously, what's the problem? You didn't even have to bring him along with you.

[Julia343]

Story was good. Character development good. Where it fell down was: it was marketed as a direct sequel to DA:O when it was not -- the only relation to the original story was Flemeth; design of the elves changed dramatically; and last but not least -- the over used recycled dungeons/caves/whatever.

If they'd taken another six months in designing the areas and not hyped it as a direct sequel but rather as a story taking place in another area of that world and had none of the actions of the first game relating to it, then it might not have been so disappointing.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Amusingly, all the reasons people hated DA2 up to and including the demo, were NOT the reasons that DA2 is mostly cited for being terrible for. If ME3 raises the ire of the fanbase, I'm wagering it'll be for entirely different reasons than have been emphasized. But they'll still go, "Look! The demo foretold all of this!"

[Raltar]

eye basher wrote...

Why i liked DA2 more than origins.

This.  Less generic fantasy is always a good thing.  DAO is a great game, of course and DA2 wasn't without faults, but DA2 was the better game overall.  So, no.  I don't feel sorry for DA2 at all/

[SeminoleFarms]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Coulda just killed him. Seriously, what's the problem? You didn't even have to bring him along with you.

I don't want to kill gays, I don't want to be gay. I don't much care about gay when I'm playing a game. I just want to play a game. When I'm playing DA I want to cast spells and swing swords because of [I'm the chosen one fighting the ancient threat X] like every other RPG lol!

And since these discussions can never go anywhere but downhill, this is my last comment on this subject roflmao!

[Carfax]

SeminoleFarms wrote...

After the homoerotic B&D thing saving the Assassin in DA:Origins, I chuckled, uninstalled, and lost total interest in the franchise.

I mean really, I just want to play a game. I don't want to be schooled in alternative lifestyle appreciation. Seriously.

My sentiments exactly.  Bioware goes out of it's way to push homosexuality/bisexuality in their games to a ridiculous degree.

ALL Bioware games now feature homosexual/bisexual characters of some sort, despite the fact that people like them are a very small minority within the greater human population..

Like one infamous poster said, there are more people with foot fetishes than there are gay/bisexual people, yet gays are pandered to more than any other minority in Bioware games.

I don't mind gay characters, because gays are a part of the World.  But when EVERY game has gay/bisexual characters, then It's like they're pushing an agenda or something.. 

For instance, there's now talk that Ashley and Kaidan will be available for S/S in ME3, among a whole bunch of other characters 

While I don't agree with that spoof post that some idiots did against Jennifer Hepler, I can't help but agree that Bioware should be mocked due to their pro gay agenda.

Modifié par Carfax, 20 février 2012 - 09:34 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

SeminoleFarms wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Coulda just killed him. Seriously, what's the problem? You didn't even have to bring him along with you.

I don't want to kill gays, I don't want to be gay. I don't much care about gay when I'm playing a game. I just want to play a game. When I'm playing DA I want to cast spells and swing swords because of [I'm the chosen one fighting the ancient threat X] like every other RPG lol!

And since these discussions can never go anywhere but downhill, this is my last comment on this subject roflmao!

Yeah, roflmao yourself, moron.

[RazorrX]

ME3 is a continuation of ME. They have tweaked the combat, etc. but kept the core what it has always been - an action RPG. Sure you can say that there is less and less RPG in the game, but we do not know for sure that is true, the demo was massively scaled down (I hope) and we will not be seeing too much of the Shep Auto conversation that shows up in the demo. Even if it does move that way though - in the end it is an Action RPG and not a full on true RPG - so it is still true to the core of the other 2 games.

DA2 was a major move away from what DA:O was. DA:O was a traditional RPG where DA2 changed into an Action RPG. That alone caused many to hate it. Then you add the other issues that ran rampant throughout the game (reusing areas, choices/sides making zero difference in the end game, etc.) and it is obvious why it got the flack it did.

Modifié par RazorrX, 20 février 2012 - 09:32 .

[Ziggeh]

Carfax wrote...

I don't mind gay characters, because gays are a part of the World.  But when EVERY game has gay/bisexual characters, then It's like they're pushing an agenda or something.. 

Almost as if they're presenting it as normal.

The fiends.

[Wrathra]

Lucas-Shepard wrote...

No. They made their bed, now they've got to sleep in it.

[JaegerBane]

John Locke N7 wrote...

its pretty damn ironic.

ME2 was praised even though it was CRAP for dumbing down the gameplay. I think they realized that concern with DA2, and even though they wanted to make it more 'cinematic' like ME2 they took time with the gameplay.

DA2 had some poor and stupid deisgn choices in it just like ME2, but the combat was beautiful.

I think if DA2 came out first it would have gotten the same scores as ME2, and ME2 would have gotten the same scores as DA2

Oh god, I just love these people who think their opinions somehow eclipse all of metacritic and, well, the majority of critical judgement. Its fine simply disliking a game, but to claim a 96% game is 'totally crap' is a bit like claiming the world is flat.

steamcamel wrote...
That
being said, it should have had more time in the oven. They royally
screwed the pooch when they decided to reuse the areas, something which
one of the lead designers later said he regrets. I also didn't care for
the totally confusing qunari-subplot and the jump in time. It totally
disconnected me from the story to the point where I didn't care anymore.
And the combat system sucked balls because of enemies appearing out of
thin air. It was incredibly frustrating and it rendered tactical
gameplay irrelevant.

I think the biggest issue is that it needed a massive fan backlash for the lead designer to actually believe it was a bad idea. Its a bit like saying they 'regretted' walking off that cliff and smashing themselves on the ground below, it was obvious it was a bad idea from the get go and should never have made it beyond the initial design.

I agree about the story and jumps, they were a horrible idea - it almost felt like the developers were *trying* to disconnect the player from the game. Hell, the initial ferelden section was like a tutorial as to how not to open an RPG to the player.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 20 février 2012 - 09:38 .

[AlexXIV]

I do feel sorry for the devs and the game and the franchise. But basically they ruined it themselves. Had they not pushed release and did it like ME3 and released it half a year later, more polished, it could easily have beaten Skyrim. But alas they thought it was good enough when they released it which the majority of their costumers disagreed with.

[Mx_CN3]

DA2's problems were:
1) Reused maps
2) Enemies spawning in waves out of nowhere
3) Glitches
4) It wasn't DA:O

#1 bothered me a little, but at least the same areas usually had different enemy compositions, so at least the fights usually played out differently.

#2 is not a big deal to me, enemies have to spawn somewhere. Maybe if they spawned a little farther away so we didn't see them appear, it would have been fine.

#3 is laughable; I only had a single glitch that made the game horrendous (the one where attacks would slow to a crawl), and I could fix it because I bought on PC. Console users got screwed because of something that was not BioWare's fault (autoattack file left out, or something like that). Also, I find it absolutely hilarious that people can say that glitches killed DA2, when a game like Skyrim had probably orders of magnitude more bugs, and more game-breaking bugs, yet people sort of just laugh, shake their heads and say "oh, that's just silly Bethesda. Everything is fine."

#4 doesn't bother me because I didn't like DA:O's gameplay, and I also do not like playing the same game twice. DA:O already had one expansion, we didn't need more of the same. It was, admittedly, quite a jarring change, but I had way more fun in 10 minutes of fighting in DA2 than in the entirety of DA:O.

And yes, I do feel sorry for almost any dev that actually puts work into a game they think people will like, and it gets trashed by "fans." Most people don't realize how much game developers actually WORK. BioWare, especially, is known for having some truly brutal hours on its employees, and then to have one of their games reviled because they tried something different, and then called lazy... well I do feel sorry for them, they deserve much better fans than they have.

Not saying that it's okay if devs make a crappy game, as some are just genuinely lazy or trying to milk a cash cow. I'm just giving BioWare the benefit of the doubt here.

Like some people said, they did roughly the same thing from ME1 -> ME2 as DA:O -> DA2. For whatever reason, people think that less numbers = "dumbing down," even if the game actually becomes significantly more difficult, because let's face it, it was stupidly easy to abuse the hell out of the number systems in DA:O and ME1 to the point that the game was laughably easy. That's dumb gameplay if I've ever seen it.

Modifié par Mx_CN3, 20 février 2012 - 10:26 .

[AkiKishi]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

DA2's problems were:
1) Reused maps
2) Enemies spawning in waves out of nowhere
3) Glitches
4) It wasn't DA:O

#1 bothered me a little, but at least the same areas usually had different enemy compositions, so at least the fights usually played out differently.

#2 is not a big deal to me, enemies have to spawn somewhere. Maybe if they spawned a little farther away so we didn't see them appear, it would have been fine.

#3 is laughable; I only had a single glitch that made the game horrendous (the one where attacks would slow to a crawl), and I could fix it because I bought on PC. Console users got screwed because of something that was not BioWare's fault (autoattack file left out, or something like that). Also, I find it absolutely hilarious that people can say that glitches killed DA2, when a game like Skyrim had probably orders of magnitude more bugs, and more game-breaking bugs, yet people sort of just laugh, shake their heads and say "oh, that's just silly Bethesda. Everything is fine."

#4 doesn't bother me because I didn't like DA:O's gameplay, and I also do not like playing the same game twice. DA:O already had one expansion, we didn't need more of the same. It was, admittedly, quite a jarring change, but I had way more fun in 10 minutes of fighting in DA2 than in the entirety of DA:O.

And yes, I do feel sorry for almost any dev that actually puts work into a game they think people will like, and it gets trashed by "fans." Most people don't realize how much game developers actually WORK. BioWare, especially, is known for having some truly brutal hours on its employees, and then to have one of their games reviled because they tried something different, and then called lazy... well I do feel sorry for them, they deserve much better fans than they have.

Not saying that it's okay if devs make a crappy game, as some are just genuinely lazy or trying to milk a cash cow. I'm just giving BioWare the benefit of the doubt here.

Like some people said, they did roughly the same thing from ME1 -> ME2 as DA:O -> DA2. For whatever reason, people think that less numbers = "dumbing down," even if the game actually becomes significantly more difficult, because let's face it, it was stupidly easy to abuse the hell out of the number systems in DA:O and ME1 to the point that the game was laughably easy. That's dumb gameplay if I've ever seen it.

The key difference between ME2 and DA2 was in quality. As much as people may have wanted to hate ME2 the quality was good so they had very little ammunition that did not come down to A is better than B because I said so.

DA2 left so many bullets lying around you could shoot it full of holes until it was Swiss Cheese and no one could really argue against it only say that XXXX did not matter to them.

[JaegerBane]

Mx_CN3 wrote...
BioWare, especially, is known for having some truly brutal hours on its employees, and then to have one of their games reviled because they tried something different, and then called lazy... well I do feel sorry for them, they deserve much better fans than they have.

*yawn*, I'm so tired of this old canard coming up. People didn't dislike DA2 'because they tried to do something different'. They disliked it because it was unfinished and cut corners on the very things they knew full well were going to be bad ideas to skimp on.

I mean, seriously, the whole reused environment thing was one of the biggest complaints all the way back in ME1, there was no excuse for the devs bashing out a few maps and then trying to set a 40+ hour game on a few hour's material.

DA2 was not a bad game in the truest sense of the word, yes... but it was no ME2.

[Malanek]

I do feel a little bit sorry for them. Some of the criticism was way over the top and unconstructive mixed in with a huge amount of trolling. But saying that DA2 did have quite a few problems. It was sort of like one step forward, two steps sideways and a step back. It wasn't a great game but I did enjoy it the first time through and felt the DLC was a huge improvement.

[Mx_CN3]

JaegerBane wrote...

*yawn*, I'm so tired of this old canard coming up. People didn't dislike DA2 'because they tried to do something different'. They disliked it because it was unfinished and cut corners on the very things they knew full well were going to be bad ideas to skimp on.

I mean, seriously, the whole reused environment thing was one of the biggest complaints all the way back in ME1, there was no excuse for the devs bashing out a few maps and then trying to set a 40+ hour game on a few hour's material.

DA2 was not a bad game in the truest sense of the word, yes... but it was no ME2.

Reused environments screams "too little development time," not "lazy devs."  My post was mostly directed towards the people that refuse to see the fact that DA2 had some very solid foundations.

[Weskerr]

I'm in the minority that thought DA2 was a very good game. But yeah, this thread will be locked. It has nothing to do with ME3.

[RSX Titan]

DA2 was flat out terrible and Bioware should be ashamed it carries their brand.

[crimzontearz]

never played DA2

it lacks NG+

[BounceDK]

ME3 will sell well, but I bet it's going to be as horrible if not worse than DAII.

[RSX Titan]

There is no way ME3 will be as bad as DA2. People may not like the direction Bioware went in with ME but the DA series suffers from lack of identity and a far inferior dev team in my opinion. ME3 will be a great game regardless.