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Vanguard Nova/Charge Pnt Distribution


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#26
Guest_Luc0s_*

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RainyDayLover wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I think "half blast" is pretty much a must take. Allows you spam Nova with a lot more security.


I disagree...

Chances are, if you're playing a Vanguard...."security" isn't exactly on top of the list of priorities when you're face to face with a Phantom or an Atlas.


Indeed, and if you pick every power cooldown bonus available and only run with pistols and SMGs, you can just spam Charge and Nova one after another non-stop. Just Charge in, use Nova as soon as your cooldown is almost over (which should only take 2 or 3 seconds) and then right after Nova, use Charge again to replenish your shields. Rince and repeat, it's as easy as that.

#27
Hiero Glyph

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I find it interesting that so many suggest using Half Blast when it reduces your damage by 40%. On anything above Bronze the enemies will survive more than a single combo requiring more time where you are potentially exposed.

#28
RainyDayLover

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Wulfram wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I think "half blast" is pretty much a must take. Allows you spam Nova with a lot more security.


I disagree...

Chances are, if you're playing a Vanguard...."security" isn't exactly on top of the list of priorities when you're face to face with a Phantom or an Atlas.


The "security" of knowing you'll have your shield up is what allows me to play more aggressively.  And you can always just Nova twice if the situation calls for it, with the bonus of probably being able to charge again as soon as you've done so.


Wait...can you use the second Nova instantly after performing the first one? (argh, they should've let you reset the power allocation in the demo) Or do you have to wait for a cooldown in between the two uses?

#29
Pedro Costa

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RainyDayLover wrote...
Wait...can you use the second Nova instantly after performing the first one? (argh, they should've let you reset the power allocation in the demo) Or do you have to wait for a cooldown in between the two uses?

You can use the second Nova instantly after the first, after all, the only thing Nova depends upon to be fired is wether you still have any barrier left or not.

And yes, I too, would've liked to have the chance to respec in the demo, would love to try more health/shield bonus and the 50% barrier consumption of Nova.

edit: argh, grammar

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 21 février 2012 - 02:37 .


#30
Shadow of Terror

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A Vanguard on gold


Frickin awesome...

#31
Jonathan Shepard

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Yeah, I'm ashamed to say I took the 25% chance for no cooldown. Wanted to re-spec afterwards... but, oh well. I'm still able to decimate on silver.

#32
Simbacca

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Charge Rank 4 Radius
Charge Rank 6 Barrier

Nova Rank 4 Radius
Nova Rank 5 Half Blasts
Nova Rank 6 Piercing

#33
bennyjammin79

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Charge

Rank 4 - Radius.
Rank 5 - Power Synergy
Rank 6 - Barrier

Nova

Rank 4 - Radius
Rank 5 - Half Blast
Rank 6 - Pierce

Assault Mastery

Rank 4 - Damage & Capacity
Rank 5 - Power Damage
Rank 6 - Weapon Weight

Fitness

Rank 4 - Melee Damage
Rank 5 - Martial Artist
Rank 6 - Melee Synergy

#34
magnuskn

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Shadow of Terror wrote...

A Vanguard on gold


Frickin awesome...


Alright, that video alone pretty much decided me to go for Half Blast when the full game comes out.

a.) You can use a shotty and have Charge ready immediately after two Novas.

b.) Did I mention that you have Charge ready after two Novas?

Exactly what I was looking for. I'll be rolling with a Shotgun and without Shockwave when the full game hits.

Modifié par magnuskn, 21 février 2012 - 07:51 .


#35
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Hiero Glyph wrote...

I find it interesting that so many suggest using Half Blast when it reduces your damage by 40%. On anything above Bronze the enemies will survive more than a single combo requiring more time where you are potentially exposed.


I agree. I prefer the a stronger single Nova over 2 weaker Nova's. If you run with only a pistol and an SMG and got all the power-cooldown upgrades, your Charge will cool down so fast that after 1 Nova you're already able to Charge again.

#36
SushiSquid

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Charge: Radius, Power Synergy, Barrier
You take Radius because it helps stagger more things before the Nova, but also because it increases total damage output dramaticaly. Power Synergy makes Charge and Nova way stronger. Barrier helps greatly if something goes wrong after a Charge, but also doubles damage output from Nova (because Nova's listed damage and force are multiplied by your barrier percentage).

Shockwave: Ignore this power.
You never need this power. It would eat into Charge's cooldown to use and it takes important points better spent on passives.

Nova:
Force & Damage, Power Recharge, Pierce
Nova's range is already good, so boost its damage. Half Blast is terrible, greatly weakening the power. It's better to drop the cooldown so you can Charge that much sooner. Tenths of a second matter on this class, and Power Recharge drops Charge's cooldown from 3.08 to 2.31 while active. That's very impressive, and you can drop it even lower with armor mods. Finally, Pierce is a crucial power to take because normally barriers, shields, and armor give a Vanguard trouble. It's critical to get this damage boost against them.

Alliance Training: Damage and Capacity, Power Damage, Weapon Damage
You need good weight capacity so cooldowns are as low as possible, good power damage because almost all you use are powers, and good weapon damage for the rare times when you need your pistol.

Fitness: Durability, Shield Recharge, Fitness Expert
Get as high of health and shields as you can. You can't imagine how useful this is on Gold when something goes wrong during a Charge-Nova string.


As a Vanguard, your lifeblood is your cooldown, so use only a pistol (they do far better damage than SMGs). Carnifiex is best, but I use Phalanx because I don't have that.

In battle, you want to Charge and Nova nearly everything. Wait a half second after Charge before using Nova so that Charge is immediately ready as soon as it finishes. Charge will constantly restore barrier to full power, and you're invincible during the animations for both Charge and Nova (you can be staggered out of them but missiles and stuff, but you won't take damage). Because you're sitting in such close range, this invincibility period and recharging barrier are the only thing keeping you alive. Your entire method of both offense and defense relies on making sure to never stop using Charge and Nova. Once you start, you can't leave the area until you die or everything else does.

And then you've got the two synergy bonuses. Getting 25% cooldown reduction and +25% power force/damage for 15 seconds means you must immediately go find something else to kill as soon as combat ends or you're penalized for it. You are simply never allowed to stop fighting.

I use this on Silver and Gold and it's great. Only three enemies ever necessitate using your weapon. Against Guardians, you Charge to stagger, then pump rounds into their heads. On turrets, you hide behind cover and shoot them, then Charge-Nova when they're weakened. On Atlus mechs, a missile is best, but you can still use the pistol with allied help. Charge-Nova does kill them incredibly quickly, but you need to make sure to move around them in a circle while doing it. If you don't, they'll grab you mid-animation and kill you instantly.

Modifié par SushiSquid, 21 février 2012 - 09:05 .


#37
count_4

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magnuskn wrote...
a.) You can use a shotty and have Charge ready immediately after two Novas.


When you chose the 25% cooldown with Nova + Shoutgun weight mod and alliance maxed out, you have full  Nova, still instant Charge afterwards and are less exposed to enemy fire with reduced barrier.

Modifié par count_4, 21 février 2012 - 09:06 .


#38
SushiSquid

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Why would a Vanguard be using a shotgun? That increases the cooldown too much. You absolutely cannot afford to miss any cooldown reduction on this class. Fractions of a second are the difference between wiping the floor with everything in sight and being dropped to the floor.

#39
magnuskn

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From the linked video ( which was on gold difficulty ), Half Blast is actually great. I have all the cooldown reduction talents and even with only a pistol, you still got 1 1/2 seconds after a Nova where your Charge is on cooldown.

Half Blast takes care of that and I have yet to see that you get actual damage mid-Nova. I'll definitely go this way when the full game is out. Also, you can take a shotgun and still will have Charge on cooldown after the two Novas.

#40
magnuskn

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count_4 wrote...

magnuskn wrote...
a.) You can use a shotty and have Charge ready immediately after two Novas.


When you chose the 25% cooldown with Nova + Shoutgun weight mod and alliance maxed out, you have full  Nova, still instant Charge afterwards and are less exposed to enemy fire with reduced barrier.


That's factually incorrect. I got all of this ( although I don't have a shotgun weight reduction mod... that one must be rare. I got the bayonet and the 15% damage buff mods in my shotgun ) and the cooldown after a Nova still is 1.5 seconds or something thereabouts. With a pistol as my only weapon ( so 200% CD reduction ), with the shotgun it is longer

Modifié par magnuskn, 21 février 2012 - 09:13 .


#41
SushiSquid

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You must have done something wrong. Charge's cooldown is 2.31 if you've recently used Nova, and that's even if you don't use an armor mod for cooldowns. The cooldown on Charge starts immediately, so you're already cooling down while you start the animation, fly to the target, hit the target, and recover. Wait maybe a quarter second, activate Nova, and as it finishes you'll have Charge again. No need for a second Nova, especially when Half Blast means your twin Novas will be weaker than my one.

#42
Peer of the Empire

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Nova is dubious, but good for stomping growing turrets

Charge and Fitness must be maxed

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 21 février 2012 - 09:35 .


#43
count_4

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magnuskn wrote...
 I have yet to see that you get actual damage mid-Nova.

Then you haven't tried Nova'ing a Phantom that's right in front of you. I did and next thing I know I was killed in mid-animation by her katana.
Was entirely my fault, though. I was stupid enough to charge a Phantom that was standing right in the corner of a room after all...

For the cooldown related stuff, see SushiSquid.

Modifié par count_4, 21 février 2012 - 09:41 .


#44
magnuskn

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Well, let's see. I got:

Charge:
Level 4 - Radius
Level 5 - Power Synergy
Level 6 - Barrier

Nova:
Level 4 - Force&Damage
Level 5 - Power Recharge
Level 6 - Sustain ( Yes, I know, I'm beating up myself over it :-/ )

Alliance Training:
Level 4 - Damage & Capacity
Level 5 - Power Damage
Level 6 - Weapon Weight

That's all the CD reduction talents there are and if I use only a pistol, I still have a 3.08 seconds recharge, before using Nova. 3.85 seconds with a shotgun and pistol, 3.47 seconds with only a shotgun.

And that still means that I got the 1.5 seconds after using Nova, with only a shotgun. Hey, I am not theorycrafting here, that's what I've observed from my 50+ games. And if you take a look at the linked video, you'll see that Half Blast means that you don't have a CD at all after using two chained Novas.

Since MP has very few time limits ( there is plenty of time to achieve the objectives, IMO ), I think I will try out going with Half Blast in the full game. It looks pretty rad.

#45
magnuskn

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count_4 wrote...

magnuskn wrote...
 I have yet to see that you get actual damage mid-Nova.

Then you haven't tried Nova'ing a Phantom that's right in front of you. I did and next thing I know I was killed in mid-animation by her katana.
Was entirely my fault, though. I was stupid enough to charge a Phantom that was standing right in the corner of a room after all...

For the cooldown related stuff, see SushiSquid.


Happened to me, too... but only from Phantoms so far. I've heard that Atlas can also kill you mid-nova with their melee, but that's about it. Everything else does nothing.

#46
SushiSquid

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Yes, a Phantom absolutely can hit you while using Nova. As I said though, you're invincible so you don't take damage, but the stagger still ends the animation and opens you up to damage again. Phantoms are still easy to kill though. Charge, immediately Nova while it's staggered, then roll backward. I think you need to do this like three times on Gold.

Atlus's melee will kill you, but you can Charge-Nova in circles around him. They turn really slowly.

Modifié par SushiSquid, 21 février 2012 - 09:46 .


#47
count_4

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The minimal CD to get for Charge is 2.31 seconds (right after Nova). If the enemy isn't too close you'll probably use up to a second for Charge itself + one for Nova. Means you have 0.31 seconds left of the cooldown when you're done.

#48
magnuskn

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No, that is not the case. I don't have an idea where you get that number from. Maybe with one of those random and rare one-shot items you can add to a mission, but not regularly. Minimal cooldown with only a pistol and 200% recharge is 3.08 seconds.

#49
SushiSquid

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Right, but 3.08 x 0.75 = 2.31. We're using Nova for the synergy bonus.

#50
magnuskn

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Either that's not working correctly for me or there is something else, but I swear to you, my Charge is not on cooldown directly after using Nova, while using my stated power evolutions and only a pistol. For at least one second. Which gets you killed on the higher difficulty levels.