216 réponses à ce sujet

[Getorex]

Lucas-Shepard wrote...

As I said, a case of bad translation. I even tried to clarify myself.

I obviously meant interactions with the squad, as in you had more to with them. The Crew missions from ME1 felt really half-assed to me.

I missed banter too. Haven't they got that in for ME3 by the way?

I know what you mean in your postings.  Frankly, it would be great to have the main story as well written and laid out as ME 1 but with crew interactions in line with what was available in ME 2.  You end up with a very very big game, however, because you would be near literally combining ME 1 and 2 together into one mega game with all the best of both.  Don't see that happening.

I would like more background banter as per ME 1, though there was SOME good (and often funny) banter in ME2 (thinking Garrus' riff on what are good places to fight during a mission on Tuchanka, for instance).

[tonnactus]

Getorex wrote...

Lucas-Shepard wrote...

As I said, a case of bad translation. I even tried to clarify myself.

I obviously meant interactions with the squad, as in you had more to with them. The Crew missions from ME1 felt really half-assed to me.

I missed banter too. Haven't they got that in for ME3 by the way?

I know what you mean in your postings.  Frankly, it would be great to have the main story as well written and laid out as ME 1 but with crew interactions in line with what was available in ME 2.  You end up with a very very big game, however, because you would be near literally combining ME 1 and 2 together into one mega game with all the best of both.  Don't see that happening.

It already happened with the first Dragon Age...

[Getorex]

tonnactus wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Lucas-Shepard wrote...

As I said, a case of bad translation. I even tried to clarify myself.

I obviously meant interactions with the squad, as in you had more to with them. The Crew missions from ME1 felt really half-assed to me.

I missed banter too. Haven't they got that in for ME3 by the way?

I know what you mean in your postings.  Frankly, it would be great to have the main story as well written and laid out as ME 1 but with crew interactions in line with what was available in ME 2.  You end up with a very very big game, however, because you would be near literally combining ME 1 and 2 together into one mega game with all the best of both.  Don't see that happening.

It already happened with the first Dragon Age...

Ugh.  Sorry, can't do it.  Don't do Dungeons and Dragons, swords and sorcery, maidens, "thee" and "thou".  Just can't do it so there's no way I'll ever be able to compare.  I'll stick with DE:HR vs ME for comparisons. 

[AlanC9]

tonnactus wrote...
Squad interactions means not only one specific squadmember and shepardt.In fact,were was absolutly no teambuilding in Mass Effect 2. No real comments about shepardt decisions(except the one at the end). Next to zero banter.

How come you're misspelling Shepard?

[Lucas-Shepard]

Getorex wrote...


I know what you mean in your postings.  Frankly, it would be great to have the main story as well written and laid out as ME 1 but with crew interactions in line with what was available in ME 2.  You end up with a very very big game, however, because you would be near literally combining ME 1 and 2 together into one mega game with all the best of both.  Don't see that happening.

I would like more background banter as per ME 1, though there was SOME good (and often funny) banter in ME2 (thinking Garrus' riff on what are good places to fight during a mission on Tuchanka, for instance).

Yes, it would indeed be awesome, but as you say it's very unlikely. I would have loved the loyality mission structure in addition to what was already in ME1.

[AlanC9]

Getorex wrote...
Ugh.  Sorry, can't do it.  Don't do Dungeons and Dragons, swords and sorcery, maidens, "thee" and "thou".  Just can't do it so there's no way I'll ever be able to compare.  I'll stick with DE:HR vs ME for comparisons.  

No "thee"s and "thou"s in DAO, and I'm pretty sure there aren't any maidens. (Unless Anora counts). Three or four dragons and plenty of swords and sorcery, though.

[Matt VT Schlo]

I did not have an issue with the dialogue in ME2; the issue for me, however, was the pacing. ME2 was a series of indendepent little missions sprinkled with the rare 'main story arc'

Just awful pacing.

[Getorex]

AlanC9 wrote...

Getorex wrote...
Ugh.  Sorry, can't do it.  Don't do Dungeons and Dragons, swords and sorcery, maidens, "thee" and "thou".  Just can't do it so there's no way I'll ever be able to compare.  I'll stick with DE:HR vs ME for comparisons.  

No "thee"s and "thou"s in DAO, and I'm pretty sure there aren't any maidens. (Unless Anora counts). Three or four dragons and plenty of swords and sorcery, though.

Good to know but...I cannot mentally picture a swords and sorcery game or movie without heavy-handed "thee's" and "thou's" and maidens and knights with sticks up their butts, etc, coming to mind.  Can't do it. Or even worse, swords and sorcery stuff with anachronistic modernist language in it.  It's all Conan the Barbarian, dressed up Mortal Combat, etc, to me.  Can't deal.

[tmp7704]

Getorex wrote...

Good to know but...I cannot mentally picture a swords and sorcery game or movie without heavy-handed "thee's" and "thou's" and maidens and knights with sticks up their butts, etc, coming to mind.  Can't do it. Or even worse, swords and sorcery stuff with anachronistic modernist language in it.  It's all Conan the Barbarian, dressed up Mortal Combat, etc, to me.  Can't deal.

Well, you could then always just play DA and see with your own eyes that it's possible to do it in the way you can't imagine, and thus force your brain to accept it, and expand its horizons a little. Instead of allowing it to keep you trapped in such mental limitation...

[AlanC9]

Well, if you can't handle all that "thee" and "thou" stuff, and you also don't want anachronistic modernist language... doesn't leave a huge space for the writers, does it? But hey, not every genre's meant for every single gamer.

I think DAO tends towards modernism, FWIW.

Edit: actually, depends on the character. Morrigan's a lot more traditional fantasy than Alistair, who sometimes sounds like he wandered in from a Buffy episode. See for yourself.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 février 2012 - 09:05 .

[Getorex]

tmp7704 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Good to know but...I cannot mentally picture a swords and sorcery game or movie without heavy-handed "thee's" and "thou's" and maidens and knights with sticks up their butts, etc, coming to mind.  Can't do it. Or even worse, swords and sorcery stuff with anachronistic modernist language in it.  It's all Conan the Barbarian, dressed up Mortal Combat, etc, to me.  Can't deal.

Well, you could then always just play DA and see with your own eyes that it's possible to do it in the way you can't imagine, and thus force your brain to accept it, and expand its horizons a little. Instead of allowing it to keep you trapped in such mental limitation...

Just not my thing.  Can't and wont do swords and sorcery.  Give me contemporary time frame or future (sci-fi).  Don't like fantasy.  That's just me so don't take it personally or anything that your taste SUCKS. :innocent:

[Corvus Metus]

You're missing a lot of great content by ignoring fantasy - and I'm not just referring to video games (although Baldur's Gate II is still the best damn game ever) in my opinion. To each his own, at the end of the day.

[Soverign 666]

Ugh i get off at night and were back to bashing how the main story was weak and such. We were making such good progress so Ill go over this again.

ME1 served as the intro to the trilogy and thus was focused on plot development. ME2 is a bridge to bring us from the intro to the finale and is focused on character development. The collecters are simply a plot device used to bring all the characters together. You spend more time on loyaltly missions than fighting the collecters and this iS INTENTIONAL. Come on guys these are professional writers and it really pisses me off to see people say things like comparing the writers to junior high school students.Where is your masterpiece work

I really enjoyed the disscussionwe were having last night about the writing it was specific and respecteful not ME's writing sucks these writers are terrible! Im sorry if i come off as angry but this constant baseless negetivity from these so called "fans" is very frustrating.

[Getorex]

Corvus Metus wrote...

You're missing a lot of great content by ignoring fantasy - and I'm not just referring to video games (although Baldur's Gate II is still the best damn game ever) in my opinion. To each his own, at the end of the day.

Oh no you DIDN'T say that.  The original Deus Ex is THE best video game ever created.  End of story.  

Baldur's Gate II...more sword and sorcery meh bleh.  All sword and sorcery is the same - it is all just rehashing the original board RPG "Dungeons and Dragons". All you can do is rehash the same stuff again and again and again and again with better graphics. There are no new sword and sorcery stories, only do-overs. 
 

[Getorex]

Soverign 666 wrote...

Ugh i get off at night and were back to bashing how the main story was weak and such. We were making such good progress so Ill go over this again.

ME1 served as the intro to the trilogy and thus was focused on plot development. ME2 is a bridge to bring us from the intro to the finale and is focused on character development. The collecters are simply a plot device used to bring all the characters together. You spend more time on loyaltly missions than fighting the collecters and this iS INTENTIONAL. Come on guys these are professional writers and it really pisses me off to see people say things like comparing the writers to junior high school students.Where is your masterpiece work

I really enjoyed the disscussionwe were having last night about the writing it was specific and respecteful not ME's writing sucks these writers are terrible! Im sorry if i come off as angry but this constant baseless negetivity from these so called "fans" is very frustrating.

True enough.  There is simply no pleasing some people.  Ever.  EVER. 

Another thought...if ya'll are so great at storytelling and game creation then make your own!  Everyone is a critic who can do it better: armchair generals critiquing actual real world war fighting, readers of novels, players of games...they, the player, can ALWAYS do better than the actual coders and writers but they just don't want to, I suppose.

Sure, there are things to criticize but c'mon!  Nobody's making you buy and play the game.  Go back to the old great ascii games and text-based dungeons that were so great.<_<

[Gruzmog]

Soverign 666 wrote...

Ugh i get off at night and were back to bashing how the main story was weak and such. We were making such good progress so Ill go over this again.

ME1 served as the intro to the trilogy and thus was focused on plot development. ME2 is a bridge to bring us from the intro to the finale and is focused on character development. The collecters are simply a plot device used to bring all the characters together. You spend more time on loyaltly missions than fighting the collecters and this iS INTENTIONAL. Come on guys these are professional writers and it really pisses me off to see people say things like comparing the writers to junior high school students.Where is your masterpiece work

I really enjoyed the disscussionwe were having last night about the writing it was specific and respecteful not ME's writing sucks these writers are terrible! Im sorry if i come off as angry but this constant baseless negetivity from these so called "fans" is very frustrating.

Wait you mean to say internet forums are not for gall spewing, flaming and unfounded critisism? I am shocked!
:innocent:

On a more serious note I only picked up ME1 and ME2 two months ago and now have 2 characters played trough both games. First off I loved em both. The story in ME1 was great the story in ME2 was nice and I loved the different locations, but there was one thing that kinda bugs me. You are pushed into this sense of urgency with the thousands of colonists are being kidnapped, hurry and safe them. After recruiting the first few squad members and horizon you pretty much know what to do for preparation to follow them.... but you have to work on you're team first... while thousands of people are being taken... you know what to do... but your though guy has daddy isues and can't function....

Laying it on a little thick here, but you catch my drift. The background story's would be cool if this sense of urgency wasn''t gnawing in the back of you're mind. Had the illusive man be less all knowing and atleast some of the background missions been interwoven with vital intel on how to proceed at all, I would have been 99% satisfied (can't have a 100 now can we? )'Just scouting star systems based on intell or rumurs would have been more fun then aswell. No knowledge about the reaper IFF would make a reaper artifact (not the arrival one) in some mine far more interesting as it might give you clues instead of being a waste of time you could be spending safing colonies.

So to end the negative rant , I enjoyed ME2 alot, i will play it alot more. but storywise it could have been a bit better as far as I am concerned.

Modifié par Gruzmog, 21 février 2012 - 11:26 .

[Getorex]

I'm not sure what, if anything, Bioware gets from these forums and critiques, perhaps not much because there are always heavy-duty critics here who never are happy with the story or the graphics or the gameplay no matter what.  A lot of it boils down to "Hey Bioware, why does your game suck?!", "Why did you make it sucky?", "Can you please make the game less sucky?" , "What's with all the suck?"

Here's how I judge a game as being good or not (in this case concerning ME 1 and 2):

1. Did I enjoy playing it? Yes, I did and so did my family members who I got into playing ME.
2. Did I play and replay about a bazillion times? Yes. So did my family members.
3. Did I care about the characters? Did I get immersed so far into the game/story that I cared about the characters and their actions? Yes.
4. Did I get so immersed that I would find hours had passed while playing without knowing it? Yes.
5. Did I think about the game/story to some extent when I wasn't playing? Thinking through scenarios, outcomes? Yes.

So...that makes it good game.

That's it. The game is good.

Modifié par Getorex, 22 février 2012 - 12:13 .

[SirCrimz]

Lead Writer Drew Karpyshyn said he wrote the first half of ME2 and let someone else take over afterwards, so maybe that had something to do with our disconnect with the story.

[AkiKishi]

Shepard ! I thought you were dead.
I got better.

Everyone is remarkably blase about your being risen from the dead. The implications are staggering but in ME2 its barely worth a mention.

[StartOrange]

I liked pretty much all writing in ME 2 except for the dialogue during Samaras loyalty mission when you talked to Morinth in the bar. That whole thing felt unnatural and just on rails.

Aside from that I have no complaints. TIM is one of the best characters ever imo.

[AkiKishi]

Getorex wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

You're missing a lot of great content by ignoring fantasy - and I'm not just referring to video games (although Baldur's Gate II is still the best damn game ever) in my opinion. To each his own, at the end of the day.

Oh no you DIDN'T say that.  The original Deus Ex is THE best video game ever created.  End of story.  

Baldur's Gate II...more sword and sorcery meh bleh.  All sword and sorcery is the same - it is all just rehashing the original board RPG "Dungeons and Dragons". All you can do is rehash the same stuff again and again and again and again with better graphics. There are no new sword and sorcery stories, only do-overs. 
 

That's a remarkably simplistic view given that ME is a rehash of various Sci Fi plots that have come before. Reapers -Shadows from B5. Geth - Cylons from Galactica etc.

[SirEtchwart]

My only real issue I had with Mass Effect 2 was "Oh, you're fighting the Collectors."


Two hours later...

"Nope, never mind, fight every mercenary in the universe instead, because LAWL PLOT"

[Getorex]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

You're missing a lot of great content by ignoring fantasy - and I'm not just referring to video games (although Baldur's Gate II is still the best damn game ever) in my opinion. To each his own, at the end of the day.

Oh no you DIDN'T say that.  The original Deus Ex is THE best video game ever created.  End of story.  

Baldur's Gate II...more sword and sorcery meh bleh.  All sword and sorcery is the same - it is all just rehashing the original board RPG "Dungeons and Dragons". All you can do is rehash the same stuff again and again and again and again with better graphics. There are no new sword and sorcery stories, only do-overs. 
 

That's a remarkably simplistic view given that ME is a rehash of various Sci Fi plots that have come before. Reapers -Shadows from B5. Geth - Cylons from Galactica etc.

Actually, at least Geth (machine intelligence) and Reapers fall within speculative science (look up the term "The Great Silence".  It refers to the faiure, thus far, for Seti to pick up anything, the fact that there are no ETs or evidence of ETs anywhere in any form.  The Great Silence has a handful of possible reasons, not sci-fi or fantasy reasons, and one of them is roughly Reaper-like.  It is also much more likely that machine intelligence will be what would be found "out there" than biologicals (thus Geth are vastly more likely than Turians, etc).  There is zero chance for sorcery, wizards, dragons, etc.  So at least the stories are in the ballpark of reason. 

Also, check out the hard sci-fi of Greg Bear, Gregory Benford, Stephen Baxter.  Maybe some Charles Stross. 

[Getorex]

SirEtchwart wrote...

My only real issue I had with Mass Effect 2 was "Oh, you're fighting the Collectors."


Two hours later...

"Nope, never mind, fight every mercenary in the universe instead, because LAWL PLOT"

Well, the story couldn't allow you to simply jump right through Omega relay.  You actually do need to hang around and collect some tech to have a chance.  Now having to win personal loyalties from various people who are otherwise totally f*cked if they DON'T play along to the end (the Reapers don't give a fig whether or not you are concerned about them, they will still get to you in the end). Still, I welcomed and enjoyed the interpersonal story play.  Plus in the overall history of the galaxy and all, the fact that the Protheans still exist (to an extent) and the exact shape of their continued existence is fairly important.  Kinda like the importance of discovering that the Mass Relays, the Citadel, etc, were not actually Prothean tech as all people had been taught and believed, but was ALL found tech even by the Protheans (and whoever preceded the Protheans, and who preceded them, etc).  Not trivial information.  Being the first to successfully get to the galactic core, discover what was there (millenia worth of spacecraft dating back to AT LEAST the time of the Protheans) and then getting back.  Not trivial.  Not shattering but not trivial (akin to what might be found in the antarctic lake that the Russians recently drilled through miles and millenia worth of ice to get to.  Important, interesting, but wont change the value of euros or yuan to dollars, wont start or prevent a war, etc).

[Corvus Metus]

Getorex wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

You're missing a lot of great content by ignoring fantasy - and I'm not just referring to video games (although Baldur's Gate II is still the best damn game ever) in my opinion. To each his own, at the end of the day.

Oh no you DIDN'T say that.  The original Deus Ex is THE best video game ever created.  End of story.  

Baldur's Gate II...more sword and sorcery meh bleh.  All sword and sorcery is the same - it is all just rehashing the original board RPG "Dungeons and Dragons". All you can do is rehash the same stuff again and again and again and again with better graphics. There are no new sword and sorcery stories, only do-overs. 
 

Except fantasy is just as a varied genre as science fiction.  Lord of the Rings, Song of Ice and Fire, Witcher, Sandman, and Book of Magic (the later two being comics) all fall under the umbrella of fantasy.  Likewise 1984, Warhammer 40,000, Starship Troopers, Battlestar Galatica, and Firefly and all sci-fi . 

Furthermore, if originality is important - that means Twilight must be fantastic since the series take on vampires is actually unique.  However, its also awful.  Better to have a cliqued story that knows how to handle its material (like Mass Effect - although I'd argue that the series is heroic fantasy with a sci-fi paint job) rather than try to come up with something new - and have it be dull.