153 réponses à ce sujet

[Weskerr]

I remember the thread about this that popped up on the DA2 forums. I'll say now what I said then. Who cares? All that matters is the quality of work that they do. Whether or not a writer plays the game he or she writes for is a completely separate issue and irrelevant to gamers' enjoyment of the game.

[Insane 1]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well tbh if someone doesn't like video games, why work for a video game company? She could just write her own books and get rich. If she was good enough. Seriously, she shouldn't have said it. Nobody rages on those who just stfu.

Don't think being a writer is a 1 man army. You work in teams, just as people who write books. They have a team to help put ideas together, correct it, edit, add, take out, etc etc.

Modifié par Insane 1, 20 février 2012 - 11:55 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Someone made a post on RPGCodex which I felt was relevant. FWIW, I don't support any of the personal attacks on Mrs. Hepler but the post does shed some light on why people were angry enough to post such things about her regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

The game industry teaches people that game developers are all geniuses, and that gaming keeps getting better year after year. There are no problems with this vision as long as people are satisfied with the games being released. But when a game comes out that's less than satisfactory, the cracks start to show. This is why people can so vehemently defend Bioware; they're constantly being told by the gaming media, advertising, and other fans that Bioware has great writing and their games are the best rpgs evar. When a game comes out that is definitely not a good RPG, a portion of the fanbase has this illusion shattered for them and they instantly become bitter trolls who can't stand change or don't understand Bioware's "VISION" in the eyes of the faithful.

Hepler is just the unlucky recipient of this pent up anger. Even those who have recently abandoned Bioware probably still love their earlier games (I can sympathize; I really liked BG1 and BG2 but everything they've done since then has paled in comparison). So they look for a target; a scapegoat they can blame for the decline. And then Hepler makes stupid comments about how she hates gameplay, and how anyone who doesn't love her work is either sexist or homophobic, like she's some kind of writing god and all who criticize her are heretics who should be shunned from society if not burned at the stake. I can understand the anger coming from these people.

The problem with all this anger is that Bioware won't understand where it's coming from and just dismiss it as mass trolling, as if thousands of people have nothing better to do than try to hurt their feelings. Good game developers listen to criticism; they recognize that anger has a purpose, and people are only angry because they care about the game in question. The worst reaction from fans is silence - it means they just don't care. But I digress. The devs at Bioware have surrounded themselves with a cult of faithful sycophants and any criticism is dismissed by dozens of loyal posters. Jokes about ding dong bannu aside, the worst part of that forum isn't the overzealous moderation, it's the echo chamber effect where any voice of dissent is shot down by other posters. It's demoralizing to post legitimate criticism only to be called a troll, or have all your carefully thought out points be called wrong for stupid reasons. Why even bother posting criticism when the reaction is universal? Then the disillusioned forum goer will either slip back into the fold, or flee to /v/, the Codex, or other sites where their opinion won't be so universally rejected. The Bioware forum goers probably think they're perfectly reasonable people, too; they are only sticking up for the best rpg developer evar. Bioware can do no wrong, so anyone who tries to criticize them is either mistaken or just a troll. If you think they've made a mistake, just look at all these posts by people who disagree with you!

So basically, the state of things at Bioware are the result of the game industry's masturbatory self-praise and rejection of any meaningful criticism, and Bioware won't learn anything from this because of how sheltered they've made themselves. As their games continue to decline in quality, their audience will grow smaller and their reputation with gamers will suffer. If Bioware wants to save themselves from being assimilated by EA, they need to hire some better writers, hire some community managers to assess criticism from fans, and generally work on restoring their reputation for good RPGs rather than the action/dating sims they're becoming known for. I doubt that'll happen, though.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 20 février 2012 - 11:57 .

[DaringMoosejaw]

I'm not going to feel responsible because a bunch of trolls got a rise out of this girl and now she's freaking out about it. They were a bunch of dicks, but her reactions so far are making it worse. It's a shame, but I had nothing to do with it and 'gamers' as a whole had nothing to do with it.

[Uezurii]

easygame88 wrote...

Funny, but really in my opinion the bits she's written for Dragon Age and Star Wars have been pretty good.

I dont agree with that, she butchered Anders.

[LilyasAvalon]

Uezurii wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Funny, but really in my opinion the bits she's written for Dragon Age and Star Wars have been pretty good.

I dont agree with that, she butchered Anders.

Please don't remind me of that...... My mind likes to think DA2 was just a bad dream.

[Ji99saw]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Raltar wrote...

Way to completely not read anything.  She said she'd rather skip the combat sequences and get to the story.

You're right, I got that wrong. I apologize.

Insane 1 wrote...

You seriously are a complete idiot.

 

Wonderful comeback.

1. Personal insult

2. No counter-argument

I have anthor one, your a moron and next time you shouldn't comment on things you don't understand, and if your keeping track thats 2 personal insults with no counter-argument Troll

[Insane 1]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

EA, your argument falls when you have people doing jobs that they dislike because they need to work. Not every job is going to be one you keep for life, and not every job is going to be something you are 100% vested in.

There's a difference between "100% vested in" and dislike. Even "meh" would be okay.


And, this isn't a case of someone "needing to work" so they hop over to BW. A lot of thought went into her position there, and if she doesn't like playing games, it seems like a bad idea to have her working on them.

And, once again, no one is saying what they're doing is okay. It isn't.

Again, developers, many of them, don't play video games, yet, they still make them because they like what they do, regardless if they actually play or not.

[I_Jedi]

Uezurii wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Funny, but really in my opinion the bits she's written for Dragon Age and Star Wars have been pretty good.

I dont agree with that, she butchered Anders.

But I hear that origins turned out quite well.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

A game story writer writes stories. Not gameplay mechanics or combat scenarios. There's no innate need to like all aspects of the medium.

 

There isn't a "need," no, but if there's a dislike, that dislike will influence that person's job in their area of expertise, which seems like a bad idea.

Unless you insist that everyone love everything about their job, that's kind of the nature of reality, mate. People cope, and carry on, and do what they're better at and enjoy more.

It's hardly unnatural, and insisting on anything else is pretty unreasonable.

Yeah well she can hate everything about her job as long she is doing a good job at it regardless. But saying that in an interview would be a bit like shooting yourself in the foot. However, it was 6 years ago, I am sure she learned that lesson.

And, er, that she never said that she hated everything about her job.

Or even that she hated the gameplay aspect.

So, yeah. I'm sure she learned 'that lesson', on account that she never violated it.

[Dave of Canada]

Her insults are unprofessional and only made it worse, Aaron Flynn's comment is too. Does EA watch their employees? If I said anything like that, I'd get fired.

Edit: Also, while I disagree with what transpired here, it isn't only "trolls". There's a reason behind the anger, this isn't some unprovoked event. They wouldn't be as crazy as they are now if they didn't care about BW at some point or another.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 20 février 2012 - 11:58 .

[Maria Caliban]

People have thrown a hissy fit over that interview on an annual basis for the last four years. I have to wonder why changed this time that it's managed to happen someone other than the forums. Is it just that Jennifer has a twitter address so people could harass her directly?

[Travie]

She wrote some good things: the mage Origin in Dragon Age:Origins.

She wrote some bad things: The romances in DA:2, the horrible anders in DA:2....

All in all she isn't a GREAT writer, but she did do some good work here and there.

[PSUHammer]

This is a perfect example of what the anonymity of the Internet provides us. ANYONE can post messages and spew nonsense and others will pick up on it. There are just some real ugly personalities in this world.

Jesus...they are just games.

[Malanek]

I think it does help if the writers have a basic understanding of how the games they write for work. They need to know how the story will be executed and conveyed to the player. They need to know about pacing and how much story should be put in each cutscene. Also be aware of other ways of telling the story with visual cues etc. Halflife 2 did that very well. But as for the combat, tactics etc the things she said she struggled with, they don't matter too much.

[Dean_the_Young]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Not at all. But, her job sn't just "any" job. She isn't picking up car parts, drilling a hole in them, and placing it on the conveyor belt. She isn't delievering newspapers. Her job is very...eh, what's the word...subjective. Up to her. Dependant on her mods and feelings. Can't think of the proper phrase.

Unrelated to gameplay?

Because if she writes stories for games, her responsibility is the story, and not the gameplay.


Demanding a script writer be proficient and enjoy gameplay is as sensible as insisting that the audio artists be good writers. There's no reason to.

It's silly.

[didymos1120]

Why did we need another topic about this? It's only vaguely ME3-related at best.

[Dean_the_Young]

CrustyBot wrote...

Someone made a post on RPGCodex which I felt was relevant. FWIW, I don't support any of the personal attacks on Mrs. Hepler but the post does shed some light on why people were angry enough to post such things about her regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

I sincerely hope you didn't write that tripe.

[HiddenKING]

Ji99saw wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Raltar wrote...

Way to completely not read anything.  She said she'd rather skip the combat sequences and get to the story.

You're right, I got that wrong. I apologize.

Insane 1 wrote...

You seriously are a complete idiot.

 

Wonderful comeback.

1. Personal insult

2. No counter-argument

I have anthor one, your a moron and next time you shouldn't comment on things you don't understand, and if your keeping track thats 2 personal insults with no counter-argument Troll

He is a moron.

I like when people insult EA. Quick tell him nobody likes him.

[Travie]

Did helper write anything for ME3? I don't dislike her or anything... but I hope not after DA:2.

[AxholeRose]

Yeah ok, so this one Bioware writer has the influence to change the entire style of the games. Riiiight.


Reddit has been in decline for the past few years.

[Arch1eviathan]

she shouldn't have added fuel to the fire like that. She's reprosenting her company and she should've been more profesional about it. That being said her anger is understandable.

[GnusmasTHX]

Nobody likes you EA.

Sorry, I just want to fit in.