46 réponses à ce sujet

[kleindropper]

I must research this further but it seems to me that what goes in must come out. Wouldn't your gun be full of empty clips if they weren't ejected?

[HighFlyingDwarf]

William Adama wrote...

Am I being picky? I don't think so. Playing an RPG is akin to reading a novel.

This isn't an RPG anymore, it's a Turd Person Shooter. Sorry!

kleindropper wrote...

I must research this further but it seems to me that what goes in must come out. Wouldn't your gun be full of empty clips if they weren't ejected?

 

From the impression I have it's a single clip with reloadable heatsinks, the point is though that the complete clip is now being reloaded, thus the issue with regards to lore and the lack of explanation to the change.

[Hyrist]

*Chuckle*

Conrad Verner. That's all I have to say.

[Hyrist]

- And yet still he is a total dunce.

Living proof that intelligent people often do dumb things. Like complain incessantly on the internet.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Hyrist wrote...

Like complain incessantly on the internet.

:innocent:

[Chuck Fandango]

I want to ask the OP a serious question.

When was the last time you got laid?

Believe me, this kind of stuff wont help at all!

[Sgt Stryker]

Maybe someone on the animation team missed the memo that a thermal clip is NOT a single heat sink, and acted accordingly? Man, they really need a Codex guru guy who fact-checks everything.

[Corvus Metus]

When it comes to "soft" science fiction, which Mass Effect certainly is, the rule of cool always beats out lore.

Take the Warhammer 40,000 universe for example. In most fluff, the infamous bolter is semi-automatic weapon that fires mini-rockets. Sometimes its even described as not having recoil.

In video games and art, the bolter is portrayed as am automatic weapon that rocks like hell when its fired. Why? Because a charging Astrates firing off a round is not nearly as bad-ass as one running forward firing a fully automatic gun with one hand.

[Sgt Stryker]

Corvus Metus wrote...

When it comes to "soft" science fiction, which Mass Effect certainly is, the rule of cool always beats out lore.

Who says it's impossible to have Rule of Cool and lore consistency? Sure, it might take a bit of work and creative thinking, but I think it can be done. 

Also, to all the people saying this isn't a big deal, let me ask you this. Suppose that you're watching a Star Wars movie and a jedi pulls out a lightsaber. When he activates it, it makes a sound like a conventional sword coming out of a sheath. Wouldn't you have a problem with that? The thermal clip issue here is practically the same thing.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 23 février 2012 - 12:29 .

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Biotic gameplay violates lore, too.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Yep. And it has been doing so since ME1. Mass Effect has never been all that consistent. It's not that serious.

[Fatso8686]

Yeah it's really not a big deal. Like someone said, they made a codec about it, so that changes the law! I kind of like having to reload, it's better than the stupid overheating guns.

I'm pretty sure the codec in ME1 said that the guns use metal and shave off bullets as you fire. Well doesn't that metal ever run out? The thermal clip theory actually makes more sense to me.

[William Adama]

Chuck Fandango wrote...

I want to ask the OP a serious question.

When was the last time you got laid?

Believe me, this kind of stuff wont help at all!

Hahaha! That's actually a good question...

Ya I know it's just a game and I'm not going to get all pissy about something like this, I just wanted to let Bioware know that there was a miscommunication between the writters and animators... again.

Hey, we all make mistakes and all we can do is learn from them! I did this to help them become a better developer because there are some people out there (like me) who notice things like this.

[Sgt Stryker]

Fatso8686 wrote...

Yeah it's really not a big deal. Like someone said, they made a codec about it, so that changes the law! I kind of like having to reload, it's better than the stupid overheating guns.

I'm pretty sure the codec in ME1 said that the guns use metal and shave off bullets as you fire. Well doesn't that metal ever run out? The thermal clip theory actually makes more sense to me.

Of course it would run out. That just wasn't modeled in the gameplay. That being said, I would have had no problem at all with a counter that starts at ~4000 and counts down by one every time you fire a shot.

[Praetor Knight]

kleindropper wrote...

I must research this further but it seems to me that what goes in must come out. Wouldn't your gun be full of empty clips if they weren't ejected?

Well I have some free time to share some research I've done me-self...


For starters, I figure the best designs we can can compare ME universe weapons are to multistage, multi-turn coilguns. So waste heat from impedance is gonna be a limiting factor. The gun ain't gonna melt on you with the materials we've gleaned that they are made of (Ceramics and the precious metals that we mine in ME2), but it will stop firing if its too hot.

So before Thermal Clips came around, small arms needed to be fired slowly to manage that waste heat, or vented if overheated [Codex]. This implies that ME universe small arms/ weapons are designed to absorb heat to an extent as they are fired, and then release the heat when idle.

In ME1 we could get our hands on Heat Sinks, which are an after-market mod to ME weapons I figure, that seemed to allow for the guns to operate at higher temperatures, increase heat absorption and dissipation to improve small arms' rate of fire [wiki]. But with limits, if overheated you'd still have to wait for the weapon to cool down and your back to square one.

So, thanks to the Geth, lore-wise, there came the ability to go through multiple Heat Sinks in Combat than to wait for a single one to cool down enough to keep firing.

But one question I have is, how do Thermal Clips work exactly?  From how they seem to work in ME2 and ME3, I figure the best we can say is that they function like a speedloader, refilling weapons with heat sinks.

Since one clip can top off several weapons, and pickups provide variable returns per clip pickup, it's a plausible theory that seems to fit available evidence.

The confusion relating to the ejected cylinders that glow orange, and seem to be a different shape than the Thermal Clips that are picked up, as brought up in this thread is another area where this sort of speculation get interesting.



Also, s'more related trivia, there are some references in-game to Lithium being used, which is stated to be an integral part in heat sinks for hand-held weapons. I wondered how it could be used, knowing how it is pure, but I figure it could be used as a Lithium Oxide.

In this form, it could be used as a Thermal barrier coating, since a lot of waste heat is made, knowing if your gun is too stressed by heat related material fatigue would come in very handy to extend the life of weapons' components and allow for less failures in Combat. And since we know ME1 weapons had to vent once overheated (with that awesome iconic sound, IHMO), it's plausible and fits what is observed in the trilogy so far.

One last bit of trivia: When a cylinder (I assume a spent heat sink) is ejected from the equipped weapon, it been shown to glow orange. To be that color, the cylinder would most likely need to be above at least 730 °C (1,350 °F),  and we know they can ignite flammable material from Zaeed's LM.



And here's some in-game stuff that gave me some ideas on how to think about this stuff.

Also shotguns and SMG's get upgrades that increase their Thermal Capacity.

From the Wiki: Shotgun Upgrades / Submachine Gun Upgrades

More efficient heat-sink materials improve the absorption and dissipation of heat. Allows for smaller, easier-to-carry heat sinks.

[WhiteKnyght]

William Adama wrote...

Hi again everyone.

I've been watching gameplay footage for ME3 from the local community and have noticed yet another inconsistency with the ME lore.

As all of you may have noticed, the player in-game reload animation has been altered. Now we see the thermal clip being inserted into the weapon which pushes out the old one. This is especially obvious when reloading the sniper rifle.

This is a huge lore mistake.

ME2 established that when we reload our weapons, all that is being ejected is the spent HEAT sink, not the entire thermal clip. This is what the animation portrayed whenever we reloaded our gun in ME2. We would **** the gun which would eject the spent heat sink that was carried within the thermal clip.

NOW in ME3 the player actually replaces the entire thermal clip after every reload.

This needs to be fixed or maybe Bioware has created another change to the thermal clip system that will be explained in the codex.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Example of the reload concept in-game for ME2: www.youtube.com/watch

"Shepard: Remember the good old days when you could just slap omni-gel on everything?

Liara: That security update made a lot of people unhappy."

As time goes by, tech updates happpen. Hence why guns went from cooldown periods to reloading clips.

And given at least six months happens between ME2 and ME3, they could change how Thermal clips work.

[Corvus Metus]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

When it comes to "soft" science fiction, which Mass Effect certainly is, the rule of cool always beats out lore.

Who says it's impossible to have Rule of Cool and lore consistency? Sure, it might take a bit of work and creative thinking, but I think it can be done. 

Also, to all the people saying this isn't a big deal, let me ask you this. Suppose that you're watching a Star Wars movie and a jedi pulls out a lightsaber. When he activates it, it makes a sound like a conventional sword coming out of a sheath. Wouldn't you have a problem with that? The thermal clip issue here is practically the same thing.

Rule of Cool and lore consistency can go hand it hand, but  if I have to sacrifice one, I'd pick lore.  While that isn't an excuse to toss away universe matertial at a whim, something as minor as how gun is loaded, especially considering that ME weapons have changed every game so far.

[gethspy]

oh teh noes, now fresh heat sinks have to be inserted instead of popping in from hammerspace. Mass effect is ruined forever!

/forum

Modifié par gethspy, 23 février 2012 - 04:02 .

[CerberusSoldier]

Op it makes for better game play and that is what counts

[William Adama]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

I must research this further but it seems to me that what goes in must come out. Wouldn't your gun be full of empty clips if they weren't ejected?

Well I have some free time to share some research I've done me-self...


For starters, I figure the best designs we can can compare ME universe weapons are to multistage, multi-turn coilguns. So waste heat from impedance is gonna be a limiting factor. The gun ain't gonna melt on you with the materials we've gleaned that they are made of (Ceramics and the precious metals that we mine in ME2), but it will stop firing if its too hot.

So before Thermal Clips came around, small arms needed to be fired slowly to manage that waste heat, or vented if overheated [Codex]. This implies that ME universe small arms/ weapons are designed to absorb heat to an extent as they are fired, and then release the heat when idle.

In ME1 we could get our hands on Heat Sinks, which are an after-market mod to ME weapons I figure, that seemed to allow for the guns to operate at higher temperatures, increase heat absorption and dissipation to improve small arms' rate of fire [wiki]. But with limits, if overheated you'd still have to wait for the weapon to cool down and your back to square one.

So, thanks to the Geth, lore-wise, there came the ability to go through multiple Heat Sinks in Combat than to wait for a single one to cool down enough to keep firing.

But one question I have is, how do Thermal Clips work exactly?  From how they seem to work in ME2 and ME3, I figure the best we can say is that they function like a speedloader, refilling weapons with heat sinks.

Since one clip can top off several weapons, and pickups provide variable returns per clip pickup, it's a plausible theory that seems to fit available evidence.

The confusion relating to the ejected cylinders that glow orange, and seem to be a different shape than the Thermal Clips that are picked up, as brought up in this thread is another area where this sort of speculation get interesting.



Also, s'more related trivia, there are some references in-game to Lithium being used, which is stated to be an integral part in heat sinks for hand-held weapons. I wondered how it could be used, knowing how it is pure, but I figure it could be used as a Lithium Oxide.

In this form, it could be used as a Thermal barrier coating, since a lot of waste heat is made, knowing if your gun is too stressed by heat related material fatigue would come in very handy to extend the life of weapons' components and allow for less failures in Combat. And since we know ME1 weapons had to vent once overheated (with that awesome iconic sound, IHMO), it's plausible and fits what is observed in the trilogy so far.

One last bit of trivia: When a cylinder (I assume a spent heat sink) is ejected from the equipped weapon, it been shown to glow orange. To be that color, the cylinder would most likely need to be above at least 730 °C (1,350 °F),  and we know they can ignite flammable material from Zaeed's LM.



And here's some in-game stuff that gave me some ideas on how to think about this stuff.

Also shotguns and SMG's get upgrades that increase their Thermal Capacity.

From the Wiki: Shotgun Upgrades / Submachine Gun Upgrades

More efficient heat-sink materials improve the absorption and dissipation of heat. Allows for smaller, easier-to-carry heat sinks.

Ok so I went back and watched reload animations of ME2 weapons to get this cleared up. Thermal clips are actually being switched in the 2nd game by Shepard. It's just that the thermal clip model is smaller when it is ejected vs ME3.

Long story short, thermal clip sizes have gone up since the last game so I assume this was due to increased heat absorption for higher caliber bullet firing. Bigger bullets = more heat and thus require bigger sinks.

I never noticed that Shepard was exchanging thermal clips after firing the clips capacity. The codex does say that a trained soldier can exchange clips in under 1 second so maybe Shep is that quick!

Shepard puts in thermal clip which pushes out old one. Same concept as the 2nd game just bigger sinks.

Solved. Now I can play the game without being distracted by this.

[SXOSXO]

mauro2222 wrote...

The lore died after ME1, sadly.

/agreed