24 réponses à ce sujet

[Guurzak]

At some point of detail, requests for advice move from a reasonable attempt to understand the game well enough to enjoy it, across the line to evidence of a pathological unwillingness to explore the options the game provides for fear of making the slightest wrong choice.



Tell you what, I'll just play the game for you as a DW rogue and let you know when I'm done, so you can feel good about it.

[Onlyasandwich]

If you're looking to optimize dps early on, I would go for momentum first. Momentum is likely the skill that will have the most effect on the damage you do throughout the game. After that, whatever you feel like you're lacking or want at the time. I like to pump my stealth early so I can get to the level of combat stealth. Lockpicking is not mutually exclusive with this. If you do decide to go for a cunning lethality damage build, I wouldn't bother getting the last rank of lockpicking. So to summarize, for my dual wield rogue build I went for momentum, stealth, then lethality. The biggest point for damage being momentum first, the rest to taste.

[grymstone]

i agree with onlyasandwich momentum first after that you will find yourself bumping into level caps and having to spread your points around a little bit. i made an effort to get lethality at 8 but you could just as easily go after combat stealth and then get lethality at 9 or 10 .



I personally think combat stealth is only really useful in solo game play my current non-solo nightmare play through i don't have any stealth at all and am doing just fine at 17.

[dienon11]

Lemonio wrote...
when i play i don't like thinking about stats and skills, i want to enjoy the story and the gameplay, so i want to figure out my build ahead of time

Nothing wrong with that - I do the same and so do a lot of people

Those who wish enlightenment seek it, those whom don't shall in darkness dwell

I made it a point to bump STR to 20 and DEX to 24 early.  Until Lethality, STR and DEX will be your dmg and early game it's important to put a few points into CON and WIL too.  20 STR may be end-game STR too for the better light armor pieces (not entirely sure)

Like others have said I would push for Momentum ASAP.  The two skills you get on the way are good too for AoE dmg.  As for others, take Dual Weapon Training and Dirty Fighting early on.  Position to get Lethality by level 9 or 10 which means you need to start pumping into CUN a level or two before.

Modifié par dienon11, 25 novembre 2009 - 12:05 .

[Onlyasandwich]

I agree with deinon. You'll be raising strength and dex early anyhow even in a cun build so you can meet item requirements. This will be good to tide you over for attack rating until you can really pump cunning. I didn't drop a single point in con and don't regret it. One reason I like combat stealth is as an emergency hate dump if I'm taking too much heat. A little extra will never hurt, and it may be hard to use all your abilities often in the early game without some investment, but the difference can be easily made up with equipment as you go on. I really love the warden commander's set for this purpose, though I did have to bump strength a little more to wear it.

[dienon11]

Lemonio wrote...

although is it really necessary to raise con and will?
if i need to raise five attributes i will really be stretching myself thing

I'm planning on taking WIL, STR and CON to 20 and then leaving them alone.  Gives me access to best armor, more WIL for momentum and other abilities, and a little better survivability.  I suppose it's flavor though... mabye others would recommend otherwise

[dienon11]

Lemonio wrote...

dex to 20

Nope, Dex to 24 for Momentum

Modifié par dienon11, 25 novembre 2009 - 12:22 .

[Melichai]

Con and Will arent required - Rogue should be backstabbing and either wont need the HP or will need a lot more than what a few extra points in Con will provide. Same for Will - youll be running Momentum sustained, and that pretty much all youll need (Save Dirty Fighting for emergencies like "Oh dear, that Troll just grabbed Alister and is trying to tear his arms off!") so you wont need more Will really.



I dont know if boosting Str early on is really needed - sure it enables some of the best light armour and so on, but you wont get your hands on them until later. Early on I use lots of hostility reducing gear which doesnt have any STR requirements. I'd prioritise Dex first to get at least Momentums minimum requirement, then start boosting Cunning in preparation for Lethality and to help with opening locks. Boost Str to equipment minimums as and when you get access to them.



You can get momentum by level 3 or 4 and lethality by level 8. Stealth isnt really needed in a mixed party as has been pointed out: You'll want it eventually for combat stealth and criticals every 10 seconds but its not needed for success with a backstabbing rogue early on. Momentum plus poison is more than enough for that.



Once youve got Combat Training to level 3 (For Momentum), put one skill point in Poison & Trapmaking so you can use poison and traps: Someone else can be the specialised one who is actually taking it beyond level 1 so they make them. Put the rest into Coercion/Survivalism.

[Hurkaleez]

This link should help anyone interested in maxing their rogue:



http://social.biowar...66/index/223777



Good Luck!

[telephasic]

I'd actually suggest focusing on cunning first, then dexterity



The reason is simple, cunning affects your lockpicking, trap disarming, and coercion. If you put two points into cunning every level you should reach 40 cunning at level 14 or so. This will allow you to pick every lock/disarm every trap with only three ranks of deft hands (saving a valuable talent) and allow you to save putting that final skill point into coercion.



Of course, this will slightly gimp your PC in combat before you get lethality. Once you get lethality, your damage will go higher and higher, although your hit rate will stay rather low. Towards the late game, your damage, hit rate, and defense will begin rising dramatically, as you pump dexterity only.



The beauty of this method however is you'll never fail a persuade check. Locks you can always come back for, but most persuade options are a one-time thing.

[CJohnJones]

I just finished my first playthrough as a cunning rogue. Cunning puts the effect of your rogue abilities through the roof BUT it does not help your base damage with daggers. Assuming you are using the hotfix daggers are all dex. I tried with and without the hotfix though and the difference was only about two points of damage per weapon at 60 cunning.



Here is the real (sad) truth. You want to spend all of your time backstabbing. Dual-weapon abilites have minimal effect on backstabbing other than momentum. Your basic rogue abilities such as backstabbing anyone who is incapacitated, wider backstab range, evasion, and dirty fighting are way, way more important than any of the dual weapon abilities. Riposte stuns, by the way, so it was the only dual weapon ability that I used much.



If I were to have a rogue again, I would get a 32 strength and use a sword and shield.

[Melichai]

If you want a 32 str sword and board character why not just get a Warrior? It will do what you want better, and you can use Lelianna/Zev to pick locks/steal either as part of of your team or in a clean up op after youve cleared an area.

[beauville]

It's all about combat stealth; that's the point of being a rogue to me.

[CJohnJones]

Melichai wrote...

If you want a 32 str sword and board character why not just get a Warrior? It will do what you want better, and you can use Lelianna/Zev to pick locks/steal either as part of of your team or in a clean up op after youve cleared an area.

Since what I want is to stealth, pick, disarm and backstab, no it won't do better. My point was that the basic backstabs do better than the dual-wield talents and that lethality doesn't affect daggers with the fix.

[Discobird]

CJohnJones wrote...

 Assuming you are using the hotfix daggers are all dex. I tried with and without the hotfix though and the difference was only about two points of damage per weapon at 60 cunning.

Did you have lethality?  What was your strength?  Keep in mind that if you have high cunning the hotfix may actually hurt you since before the hotfix daggers were 100% str or cunning instead of splitting with dex.

After the hotfix daggers are half str half dex (or half cun half dex with lethality).  Putting X number of points into cunning will raise your damage the same amount as putting X points into dex (actually, it'll be even higher if you use Exploit Weakness or Tainted Blood). 

Modifié par Discobird, 25 novembre 2009 - 08:35 .

[CJohnJones]

Discobird wrote...

CJohnJones wrote...

 Assuming you are using the hotfix daggers are all dex. I tried with and without the hotfix though and the difference was only about two points of damage per weapon at 60 cunning.

Did you have lethality?  What was your strength?  Keep in mind that if you have high cunning the hotfix may actually hurt you since before the hotfix daggers were 100% str or cunning instead of splitting with dex.

After the hotfix daggers are half str half dex (or half cun half dex with lethality).  Putting X number of points into cunning will raise your damage the same amount as putting X points into dex (actually, it'll be even higher if you use Exploit Weakness or Tainted Blood). 

Strength of 20. yeah,m i was pointing out that cunning is not helpful for a dagger-wielder....except that the rogue talants use it.

[Melichai]

CJohnJones wrote...

Since what I want is to stealth, pick, disarm and backstab, no it won't do better. My point was that the basic backstabs do better than the dual-wield talents and that lethality doesn't affect daggers with the fix.

Clearly you can run your character/team however you wish.



But I disagree that a sword and board rogue not using momentum whilst backstabbing is going to do better than a dual wielding rogue using momentum whilst backstabbing. Maybe I'm wrong, but momentum on = more damage and momentum off = less damage. If you arent dual wielding, then your dual wield talents like Momentum turn off and deactivate.



And you can run a sword and shield warrior - with sword and shield talents that you can use, whilst also stealthing, lockpicking, disarming and backstabbing with one of the rogue character, with each being better at their role than trying to cover both. Its not an either/or decision. You can have both specced out.



And as I see it, Lethality isnt designed to give extra "free" damage: its supposed to allow Rogues to put points into Cunning for Assassin and other Rogue talents whilst not losing out on the damage they would have got if they put it into Strength. They do still lose out on hit bonuses, but damage they get. Especially with assassin talents figuring from Cunning.