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[MegaBadExample]

It's the VS suddenly turning bisexual that annoys me. All the other new love interests I'm fine with, and Liara.

[jellobell]

MegaBadExample wrote...

It's the VS suddenly turning bisexual that annoys me. All the other new love interests I'm fine with, and Liara.

But what if they were always Bi? Perhaps they just figured that Shepard was straight so they didn't broach the subject in ME1. They never explicitly said "Sorry Shepard, I don't swing that way". It just seems like a non-issue to me.

[SolidBeast]

That's because it is a non-issue.
People have this problem with not being able to separate real-world development of the game from the actual in-game universe. What happens during the course of development is irrelevant once you're in the game. In the game, the VS could have always been bi, even if developers decided to implement that at a later time.
If it doesn't contradict established canon, it is not nonsensical. There is no established canon for the VS's sexuality since neither of them ever say they're interested exclusively in the opposite gender.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 23 février 2012 - 02:21 .

[android654]

MegaBadExample wrote...

It's the VS suddenly turning bisexual that annoys me. All the other new love interests I'm fine with, and Liara.

There are a million and one reasons why someone who's interested in someone else doesn't say something at first. I'm sure they can come up with something. Personally I'm happy my femshep can leave Liara for Ashley, like I originally did in ME1.

[MegaBadExample]

jellobell wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

It's the VS suddenly turning bisexual that annoys me. All the other new love interests I'm fine with, and Liara.

But what if they were always Bi? Perhaps they just figured that Shepard was straight so they didn't broach the subject in ME1. They never explicitly said "Sorry Shepard, I don't swing that way". It just seems like a non-issue to me.

They were not bisexual in Mass effect 1. You know why? Because they were never intended to be bisexual in the first place, and Bioware stated that, and also said that it didn’t do justice to the characters. The only reason Shepard has S/S dialogue in ME1 was because it saved time instead of sorting papers.

As for Ashley? Well, I won't go into the fact that it's probably against her religion, the core of who she is. But I bet Bioware won’t even explain Ashley's sudden interest in female Shepard, when she showed no romantic interest in femShep whatsoever, she only showed interest in ManShep.

You might want it, but making Ashley bisexual at the end of the series is character annihilation. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Altering her, for all the new players, simply because she's a part of the game, and her and Kaidan share the same role. Bioware are cheap.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 23 février 2012 - 02:25 .

[Badpie]

Calling them "bi" might not be accurate for in game. I mean we can say that because from our perspective it's just an easier way of saying "available to both male and female players." Someone might be available to both sexes, but likely if your Shepard is a straight male and with Ashley, Ashley in that game/reality is "straight." If someone like Allers happens to be available for both f/f and m/f, unless she says in game "I like both," you can probably assume if you're a female romancing her she likes only women and if you're a male romancing her she likes only men. If it's not specified I suppose you can also make the assumption she likes both.

I suppose what I'm saying is that if a female Shepard romanced Kaidan it's not likely that he's going to suddenly start showing any bisexual tendencies in ME3. Kaidan is straight.

Same for Ashley. If I romance her with a male Shepard, we're not going to get to ME3 and have her say "and oh by the way I forgot to tell you, I like women too." Ashley is straight.

If there was no romance of either of them, which means nothing is really established I'd say then the possibility of gay, lesbian or bi romance is an absolutely plausible, believable option.

[SolidBeast]

MegaBadExample wrote...


They were not bisexual in Mass effect 1. You know why? Because they were never intended to be bisexual in the first place, and Bioware stated that, and also said that it didn’t do justice to the characters. The only reason Shepard has S/S dialogue in ME1 was because it saved time instead of sorting papers.

Read my post on this "because the devs" issue.
Also, don't twist what was said to accomodate your own viewpoint. The developers stated that they decided against making the VS bi because using the exact same lines as the heterosexual ones would feel cheap and wouldn't do justice to those romances, and there weren't enough  resources to make new animations / dialogue to actually implement the s/s romances properly. They never said making the characters bisexual wouldn't do them justice period.

[ADLegend21]

^I think a better question is "are all the LI's Shepardsexual?"

[Badpie]

ADLegend21 wrote...

^I think a better question is "are all the LI's Shepardsexual?"

I mean.... I guess if you put it that way.... Yes.  

[MegaBadExample]

SolidBeast wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...


They were not bisexual in Mass effect 1. You know why? Because they were never intended to be bisexual in the first place, and Bioware stated that, and also said that it didn’t do justice to the characters. The only reason Shepard has S/S dialogue in ME1 was because it saved time instead of sorting papers.

Read my post on this "because the devs" issue.
Also, don't twist what was said to accomodate your own viewpoint. The developers stated that they decided against making the VS bi because using the exact same lines as the heterosexual ones would feel cheap and wouldn't do justice to those romances, and there weren't enough  resources to make new animations / dialogue to actually implement the s/s romances properly. They never said making the characters bisexual wouldn't do them justice period.

Still doesn't change the fact that they weren't bisexual in ME1. Nor were they intended to be.

I bet Bioware are too cheap to even explain why the VS suddenly wants some s/s action with Shepard. Even though the VS showed no interest in the first game. It was green light go for an os Shepard, though, wasn't it?

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 23 février 2012 - 02:35 .

[SolidBeast]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that they weren't bisexual in ME1. Nor were they intended to be.

I bet Bioware are too cheap to even explain why the VS suddenly wants some s/s action with Shepard. Even though the VS showed no interest in the first game. It was green light go for an os Shepard, though, wasn't it?

No, I never said the s/s romances didn't get shafted in ME1 and 2. That's a different story entirely.
The point I'm making is this:

SolidBeast wrote...

That's because it is a non-issue.
People
have this problem with not being able to separate real-world
development of the game from the actual in-game universe. What happens
during the course of development is irrelevant once you're in the game.
In the game, the VS could have always been bi, even if developers
decided to implement that at a later time.
If it doesn't contradict
established canon, it is not nonsensical. There is no established canon
for the VS's sexuality since neither of them ever say they're interested
exclusively in the opposite gender.

The "even though they showed no interest" part is completely irrelevant. People don't show interest for various reasons in real life, and those same reasons could apply to the ME universe. Just because someone doesn't announce they're bisexual / in love with a certain person does not mean they aren't. So, from a development perspective, yes, the VS s/s romances are added now, but from an in-universe point, the VS could have been bi the entire time.

[jlb524]

ADLegend21 wrote...

^I think a better question is "are all the LI's Shepardsexual?"

I prefer this...I hate all this labeling crap.

"Well, Kaidan is gay in my game and straight in yours."

"No no, Kaidan is bisexual."

"Ashley is pansexual and had a crush on Wrex!"

I say...who cares?  If you like the character and they are available for you to romance...then go for it.

I just laugh at how 'anal' people get over properly labeling sexuality.

[Badpie]

jlb524 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

^I think a better question is "are all the LI's Shepardsexual?"

I prefer this...I hate all this labeling crap.

"Well, Kaidan is gay in my game and straight in yours."

"No no, Kaidan is bisexual."

"Ashley is pansexual and had a crush on Wrex!"

I say...who cares?  If you like the character and they are available for you to romance...then go for it.

I just laugh at how 'anal' people get over properly labeling sexuality.

You know we joke, but I really do think "Shepardsexual" is pretty accurate.  And if that's the case and everyone gets to romance who they want, I can't figure out what some people have a problem with.

Modifié par Badpie, 23 février 2012 - 02:45 .

[MegaBadExample]

SolidBeast wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that they weren't bisexual in ME1. Nor were they intended to be.

I bet Bioware are too cheap to even explain why the VS suddenly wants some s/s action with Shepard. Even though the VS showed no interest in the first game. It was green light go for an os Shepard, though, wasn't it?

No, I never said the s/s romances didn't get shafted in ME1 and 2. That's a different story entirely.
The point I'm making is this:

SolidBeast wrote...

That's because it is a non-issue.
People
have this problem with not being able to separate real-world
development of the game from the actual in-game universe. What happens
during the course of development is irrelevant once you're in the game.
In the game, the VS could have always been bi, even if developers
decided to implement that at a later time.
If it doesn't contradict
established canon, it is not nonsensical. There is no established canon
for the VS's sexuality since neither of them ever say they're interested
exclusively in the opposite gender.

The "even though they showed no interest" part is completely irrelevant. People don't show interest for various reasons in real life, and those same reasons could apply to the ME universe. Just because someone doesn't announce they're bisexual / in love with a certain person does not mean they aren't. So, from a development perspective, yes, the VS s/s romances are added now, but from an in-universe point, the VS could have been bi the entire time.

Oh, all right. So basically: "I really don't know why, but I was never attracted to you before, Shepard, but I am now." …………… “Because Bioware made me, because Kaidan died on Virmire, and we're now the same person, say the same things, and like the same things too." Got cha.
Bioware do a half-assed job when it comes to the VS....

[mauro2222]

I love when people cry for realism, and then they whine because a character flirts with them.

[jellobell]

Badpie wrote...

You know we joke, but I really do think "Shepardsexual" is pretty accurate.  And if that's the case and everyone gets to romance who they want, I can't figure out what some people have a problem with.

This. It's even semi-confirmed if you do the Garrus romance, and I doubt that any of the other alien LIs (except perhaps Liara) would want to romance a human of any gender if it wasn't Shepard. From a biological and cultural standpoint a human/alien romance is even more implausible than a s/s human one.

[SolidBeast]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Oh, all right. So basically: "I really don't know why, but I was never attracted to you before, Shepard, but I am now."

Believe it or not, it sometimes works like that in real life, too.
As to the other part, it's a childish exaggeration of viewing the in-game universe from a meta perspective, which I already adressed so I won't repeat myself.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 23 février 2012 - 02:58 .

[mauro2222]

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

Its funny how people put so much emphasis on a small part of the game.

I enjoy it, a lot. DA2 romances made the game 1000% better for me. Anders' kiss -> Me = :O<3:wub:

That moment was so hot that it made me like the game

Modifié par mauro2222, 23 février 2012 - 02:58 .

[Kabraxal]

Badpie wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

^I think a better question is "are all the LI's Shepardsexual?"

I prefer this...I hate all this labeling crap.

"Well, Kaidan is gay in my game and straight in yours."

"No no, Kaidan is bisexual."

"Ashley is pansexual and had a crush on Wrex!"

I say...who cares?  If you like the character and they are available for you to romance...then go for it.

I just laugh at how 'anal' people get over properly labeling sexuality.

You know we joke, but I really do think "Shepardsexual" is pretty accurate.  And if that's the case and everyone gets to romance who they want, I can't figure out what some people have a problem with.

They want everyone to react the way they have it in their heads.  Seeing it with all characters.  Seriously, I see little in ME1 or 2 to really say anyone is straight or bi outside of Kelly.  Hell, until I researched and found out that it wasn't possible in game, I would have sworn Ash was into my femshep.  

And if it isn't forced, who cares?  Bioware isn't forcing you to romance anyone to begin with, let alone romance someone of the same gender...

[Badpie]

jellobell wrote...

Badpie wrote...

You know we joke, but I really do think "Shepardsexual" is pretty accurate.  And if that's the case and everyone gets to romance who they want, I can't figure out what some people have a problem with.

This. It's even semi-confirmed if you do the Garrus romance, and I doubt that any of the other alien LIs (except perhaps Liara) would want to romance a human of any gender if it wasn't Shepard. From a biological and cultural standpoint a human/alien romance is even more implausible than a s/s human one.

This is actually a really good point.  Garrus and Tali clearly never had relationships with humans before and Garrus even says it's weird territory for him, but because they have this established friendship and trust he's willing to give it a go if she is.  Why is that totally plausible but someone like Ashley realizing she has feelings for femshep later on in their friendship isn't?

[d.nichols]

Weren't Kaidan and Ashley initially supposed to be bi in ME1? I don't understand what the big deal is. Let's say you play through as a male Shepard, romanced Ashley. In your particular little universe of Mass Effect, Ashley is for all intents and purposes STRAIGHT in your playthrough. That's what's canon to you. And if she is bi, is having a bi love-interest the end of the world?

Let's say conversely you're femShep. Ashley is now bi... deal with it. I mean you either are or are not gay, so if you aren't it will affect your gameplay experience 0% (Bioware devs already said something about how Anders in DA2 was a mistake, and they won't have anyone but the PC make the first move from now on). If you are a lesbian or a bisexual girl who wants Ashley, and you had to have Ashley since the first game. Congratulations! It just affected someone else's gameplay by a significantly higher margin and possibly made their day. Are ya'll really so selfish that you would deny someone that little bit of happiness they get from getting the LI of their choice, and that the idea that someone else's canon in Mass Effect, could be different from yours.

I romanced Tali, I romanced Liara. Liara is bi (so to speak, although I'm not sure if that's what you'd call it for asari O_O). If Tali is bi or a lesbian in certain playthoughs, then good for the girls who wanted to romance Tali, I'm happy for them. I hope to god that they get that option actually. I'm not going to deny someone that. Tali is straight in my playthrough. She could be different in different playthroughs... you know, sort of like Shepard.

[mauro2222]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Oh, all right. So basically: "I really don't know why, but I was never attracted to you before, Shepard, but I am now." …………… “Because Bioware made me, because Kaidan died on Virmire, and we're now the same person, say the same things, and like the same things too." Got cha.
Bioware do a half-assed job when it comes to the VS....

Haha, funny. That's how two of my friends became the love birds that they are now, one was gay the other is 100% attracted to women, but you know what? love has no limits, he fell in love of his friend who was always for him who was everything he asked for in a lover, and you know why he didn't care? because feeling disgusted by seeing homosexual acts is a learned behaviour. He isn't attracted to males, his... errmm dick gets hard with naked women (so he's still heterosexual), but he loves a man.

Edit: Not a man, his friend.

What a beatiful story.

Modifié par mauro2222, 23 février 2012 - 03:08 .

[FFWarQueen]

YES they are all bi and it will be GLORIOUS!!

*insert evil laugh here*

[MegaBadExample]

SolidBeast wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Oh, all right. So basically: "I really don't know why, but I was never attracted to you before, Shepard, but I am now."

Believe it or not, it sometimes works like that in real life, too.
As to the other part, it's a childish exaggeration of viewing the in-game universe from a meta perspective, which I already adressed so I won't repeat myself.

I'm saying it should be explained in the game. Why didn't the VS make a move before? It was all green lights for an os Shep. Even Kaidan made his interests known to a female Shepard. And Ashley? C'mon, if she had any interest in women she would just say it like it is. Like she did with her religion. She's confident enough to just come out and say it. But no, she never did.

Character reconstruction, is what it is.