203 réponses à ce sujet

[Stokie Stallion]

Quarians come across has little girls, everytime you saw them i naction in mass effect 2 they were getting beat. the geth just boss around the place. Simple choice really. Quarians because someone has to save them weak little Starstarstarstarstar

[Mhorhe83]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I don't blame modern Quarians just as I don't blame modern Geth. For the Quarians part none of them were alive during the war, and for the Geth they have evolved and changed over time, and from my experience with Legion don't really seem to be hostile.

No matter who is at fault, I'm going to make peace. 300 years of hate is long enough.

That I agree with. If peace is in my power (and it should, my Shep's as blue as they come, all loyalty missions done) I will achieve it.

If not though.. mind you, peace with the quarians is in my mind the first step on defusing what is really the galaxy's biggest threat baring the Reapers.

[Inverness Moon]

I have to wonder about the religious alignment of those that say Geth are just machines and that makes it okay to kill them, etc.

Or perhaps, it's more like some people want to think they're different and/or better than (non-organic) machines like the geth because of their own ignorance when it comes to how their bodies and brains work.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 23 février 2012 - 08:01 .

[Mykel54]

Inverness Moon wrote...

I have to wonder about the religious alignment of those that say Geth are just machines and that makes it okay to kill them, etc.

Or perhaps, it's more like some people want to think they're different and/or better than (non-organic) machines like the geth because of their own ignorance when it comes to how their bodies and brains work.

Machines are not people, no matter how smart they are. Animals are not people (that´s why we kill them to get meat, fur etc.), no matter how cute they look. So only humans (and mass effect aliens) gets the human treatment.

In the case of the geth, not only are they machines, but they´re rogue machines that almost wiped their creators. They need to be put down asap or brought back under the control of their masters. Ideally they should go back to their owners, as that is the purpose of their existence.

[Mhorhe83]

Inverness Moon wrote...
I have to wonder about the religious alignment of those that say Geth are just machines and that makes it okay to kill them, etc.
Or perhaps, it's more like some people want to think they're different and/or better than (non-organic) machines like the geth because of their own ignorance when it comes to how their bodies and brains work.

What does religious alignment have to with anything? As for the whole "the human body is a machine", that's not what makes us human. What makes as human is what, for a lack of a better word, I'd describe as a soul.

Sure, emotions are the result of the complex interaction between the nervous and endocrine systems , chucked in with effects from internal and external stimuli. The point is we have them. And so do the other organic sentients. They love, they hate, etc, the whole gamut.

The Geth don't. That makes them unique. That makes them dangerous.

And to top that, they seem remarkably easy to sway into butchering organics. The Geth as a whole started by almost dragging the Quarians into a collective grave. After that, it's unclear if it was the true Geth or the heretics that massacred any tiptoe into their territoy - which is irrelevant. It only took one small strike team to rewrite the Heretics.

Even without considering the precedent of Sovereign - or simply considering that what the Reapers do is hard enough not to be easily emulated by other races - the Geth are a dormant threat of enormous proportions.

Not to mention that, finally, you only have Legion's word about what the "True Geth" are up to behind the Veil. In fact, he has some precedent of withholding information from Shep - even if it was just a possibility.

Modifié par Mhorhe83, 23 février 2012 - 09:21 .

[CommanderCoffee]

Mhorhe83 wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...
I have to wonder about the religious alignment of those that say Geth are just machines and that makes it okay to kill them, etc.
Or perhaps, it's more like some people want to think they're different and/or better than (non-organic) machines like the geth because of their own ignorance when it comes to how their bodies and brains work.

What does religious alignment have to with anything? As for the whole "the human body is a machine", that's not what makes us human. What makes as human is what, for a lack of a better word, I'd describe as a soul.

Sure, emotions are the result of the complex interaction between the nervous and endocrine systems , chucked in with effects from internal and external stimuli. The point is we have them. And so do the other organic sentients. They love, they hate, etc, the whole gamut.

The Geth don't. That makes them unique. That makes them dangerous.

They have no need for resource competition. They don't die, they simply beam to safety. No skin, replaced by tech. No heart, replaced by tech. No soul, replaced by tech!

Geth are dangerous, even with good intentions. They don't have the same drive as organics. While this should make them harmless, they have never bothered to interact. The ones that have have been violent. Legion seems to be the exception.

Like I said earlier, still going with Quarians. They have culture, Geth don't have any culture - it's all calculative. 

[Ryzaki]

Eh going with the Geth.

In terms of usefulness against the Reapers the Geth have the Quarians beat.

Plus the Quarians hold the idiot ball a little too often for my tastes.

That and the bonus of seeing Tali throw herself off a cliff.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2012 - 09:36 .

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Eh going with the Geth.

In terms of usefulness against the Reapers the Geth have the Quarians beat.

I looked at the War Assets list, and they seemed to be worth equal amounts, actually.

Having both, is, of course, also better than either singularly.

Which frankly as far as I'm concerned makes no sense. The Geth have vast resources (for soldiers anyway) and ALL of them are combat ready [the mobile platforms] (or can easily be made combat ready) [the geth programs in the...whatever thing] meanwhile the Quarians have a severely lower population, can easily get sick, and all of their people aren't combat ready. It's obviously just a gameplay mechanic to not not punish someone for choosing a certain side in that scenario.

Obviously but frankly I rather not have my Shepard have peace between them. (maybe Guardian will but that's it).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2012 - 09:42 .

[DiebytheSword]

I intend to end their war and point them both at the reapers.

[Mhorhe83]

Ryzaki wrote...
Which frankly as far as I'm concerned makes no sense. The Geth have nearly unlimited resources (for soldiers anyway) and ALL of them are combat ready (or can easily be made combat ready) meanwhile the Quarians have a severely lower population, can easily get sick, and all of their people aren't combat ready.

Naval wise Geth never struck me as particularly impressive, except for their numbers. Even with what was probably a Super-Reaper at their head, it only took the Alliance 5th fleet (and whatever dregs of the Citadel fleet that were left, Destiny Ascension was no longer firing..) to tear them a new one AND destroy Sovereign. I'm aware that those were the Heretics and thus not the numbers on the scale of the True Geth - but that's my point.

Geth navy seems to be all about number and swarm tactics. While the Quarians got Gustave gun mounted liveships.  Not to mention highly capable crews (nonstop flying has to do that) and a probably very capable military component (or else someone or something would have made them extinct by now).

For ground troops though, not even a contest.

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Then why *snip*

Spoilers below:

Because they were using a super weapon to scramble the Geth's targeting systems. It wasn't a numbers attribute. Numbers do squat if you can't see where to aim or where your enemies are coming from.

Said tech wouldn't work on the Reapers making them pretty much below average soldiers and since the Geth are as tech savvy (if not more so) then they are...

Mhorhe83 wrote...
Naval wise Geth never struck me as particularly impressive, except for their numbers. Even with what was probably a Super-Reaper at their head, it only took the Alliance 5th fleet (and whatever dregs of the Citadel fleet that were left, Destiny Ascension was no longer firing..) to tear them a new one AND destroy Sovereign. I'm aware that those were the Heretics and thus not the numbers on the scale of the True Geth - but that's my point.

Geth navy seems to be all about number and swarm tactics. While the Quarians got Gustave gun mounted liveships.  Not to mention highly capable crews (nonstop flying has to do that) and a probably very capable military component (or else someone or something would have made them extinct by now).

For ground troops though, not even a contest.

ME3 says they are. Especially after a certain plot point where they get a massive upgrade.

Not to mention most of the Quarian ships are old and barely hanging on. They're nothing impressive and Shep's "best fleet" statement made me headdesk. They have a lot of ships but most of them are for living and not meant for war and combat. Slapping a canon on a bus does not a fatal weapon make.

The geth were machines created for war.

Plus...with the Reapers you kind of need swarm tactics. That's what the Reapers are using. Droves and droves of troops. Numbers and skill are kind of good defenses. (Shep and Co can handle the specialty bits).

We have the STG for infiltration.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2012 - 09:55 .

[izmirtheastarach]

You only gain access to all those fleets after the issue is settled. So you still have 50,000 ships that no longer have a purpose.

[Ryzaki]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

You only gain access to all those fleets after the issue is settled. So you still have 50,000 ships that no longer have a purpose.

Uh...aren't they kind of destroyed if you side with one or the other? (the side you didn't side with).

[izmirtheastarach]

Ryzaki wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

You only gain access to all those fleets after the issue is settled. So you still have 50,000 ships that no longer have a purpose.

Uh...aren't they kind of destroyed if you side with one or the other? (the side you didn't side with).

Of course. lol. I meant if you side with the Quarians.

[The Tesla Effect]

So if I destroy the Geth base in ME2, could I have the Geth and the Quarians make peace and get both for the war?

[izmirtheastarach]

The Tesla Effect wrote...

So if I destroy the Geth base in ME2, could I have the Geth and the Quarians make peace and get both for the war?

Yes. It will actually be easier for you then those that rewrote the Heretics.

[xtorma]

Mykel54 wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

I have to wonder about the religious alignment of those that say Geth are just machines and that makes it okay to kill them, etc.

Or perhaps, it's more like some people want to think they're different and/or better than (non-organic) machines like the geth because of their own ignorance when it comes to how their bodies and brains work.

Machines are not people, no matter how smart they are. Animals are not people (that´s why we kill them to get meat, fur etc.), no matter how cute they look. So only humans (and mass effect aliens) gets the human treatment.

In the case of the geth, not only are they machines, but they´re rogue machines that almost wiped their creators. They need to be put down asap or brought back under the control of their masters. Ideally they should go back to their owners, as that is the purpose of their existence.

the geth were slated for extiction by the quarians. Any sentient being would have fought for survival. The quarians did not mean for the geth to become self aware, but it happened. you can not condemn a sentient being to extenction, just because you are afraid. there were options. there were worlds the quarians could not colonize, that could have been given to the geth.

bottom line...the quarians were pissed that they lost thier slaves, no different than the south during the civil war in the US.

Screw the quarians, they are nothing but glorified slave traders.

[Mhorhe83]

Ryzaki wrote...

ME3 says they are. Especially after a certain plot point where they get a massive upgrade.

I didn't read the leaks nor do I intend to I'm going solely on ME1+ME2 knowledge.

Ryzaki wrote...
Not to mention most of the Quarian ships are old and barely hanging on. They're nothing impressive and Shep's "best fleet" statement made me headdesk. They have a lot of ships but most of them are for living and not meant for war and combat. Slapping a canon on a bus does not a fatal weapon make.

You'd be surprised what a little improvisation can turn up. The French used taxis to ferry some of their troops and turned the tide at Marne. Soviet Marshall Tuhacevski - one of the Red Army leaders that invaded Poland in the 20s - proposed to arm Soviet automobiles and caterpillars and use them in lieu of actual tanks (which mostly no one had). A cannon on a bus is better than no mobile cannon.

Quarians are master engineers - if anyone can take a gun and a liveship and come up with a super-mass accelerator, it's them. However, the fact they got by in a galaxy where no one seems to like them or help them in any meaningful way, with an enemy like the Geth at their back.. not to mention that it's more than likely that the initial evacuations of the Quarian system had a very significant military component - to keep the Geth at bay.

Ryzaki wrote...
The geth were machines created for war.

Not quite. The Geth weren't solely created for war.

Ryzaki wrote...
Plus...with the Reapers you kind of need swarm tactics. That's what the Reapers are using. Droves and droves of troops. Numbers and skill are kind of good defenses. (Shep and Co can handle the specialty bits).

I'd rather say that with Reapers you'd need really, REALLY Big Guns. At the Citadel the Alliance Fleet had real trouble penetrating Sovereign's hide.

I'm not saying swarm tactics are bad at all. I'm just saying that between the two, I'd take Big Guns first any day in this case.

For ground troops, yeah, like I said, there's no contest between Quarians and Geth.

Ryzaki wrote...We have the STG for infiltration.

The STG can't be everywhere at once.

[Mhorhe83]

xtorma wrote...

the geth were slated for extiction by the quarians. Any sentient being would have fought for survival. The quarians did not mean for the geth to become self aware, but it happened. you can not condemn a sentient being to extenction, just because you are afraid. there were options. there were worlds the quarians could not colonize, that could have been given to the geth.

bottom line...the quarians were pissed that they lost thier slaves, no different than the south during the civil war in the US.

Screw the quarians, they are nothing but glorified slave traders.

*sigh* the same argument, over and over again. ALL the quarians are glorified slave traders? You know for sure that every grandma, every kid, every infant, every liberal, EVERYONE, was just rooting for the Geth to be rewritten?

Because that's who the Geth killed. Not the Geth Heretics, the "True Geth". They killed every grandma, every kid, every infant, every liberal, every Quarian they could find. A fraction of their population survived.

The Quarians don't have group consensus.. but the Geth do. Not every Quarian wanted the Geth dead - you've got a big percentage that weren't even aware of anything beyond "mamma" and "pappa" - but ALL the Geth wanted the Quarians dead.

If the Quarians were genocidal for rewritting faulty software - from their point of view - how do you call that then?

edit: also, there's a gulf of distance between owning a sentient being and owning a piece of machinery that suddenly sprouts sentience. Like I keep saying - if a nuclear warhead armed drone would radio back and ask if it has a soul, how would you think the High Command would take it? How safe would YOU feel?

Modifié par Mhorhe83, 23 février 2012 - 11:14 .

[Inverness Moon]

Mhorhe83 wrote...

What does religious alignment have to with anything? As for the whole "the human body is a machine", that's not what makes us human. What makes as human is what, for a lack of a better word, I'd describe as a soul.

That's my point. People, normally religious people, invent concepts like the soul in order to make themselves feel special compared to other creatures.

[Mhorhe83]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Mhorhe83 wrote...

What does religious alignment have to with anything? As for the whole "the human body is a machine", that's not what makes us human. What makes as human is what, for a lack of a better word, I'd describe as a soul.

That's my point. People, normally religious people, invent concepts like the soul in order to make themselves feel special compared to other creatures.

Please don't put my words out of context. Literally 1 line below what you quoted I describe emotions as down to earth as you possibly can. Not to mention that even in the text you quoted I used "for lack of a better word". Also, good job ignoring both the point I made and pretty much everything else I said

[SirCrimz]

My first option would be peace between the Quarians and the Geth.

If it came down to it, I will side with the Quarians. They are a race that values family and community immensely (if you read the Mass Effect: Ascension book you would know what I'm talking about). I don't believe they were wrong in destroying a creation that had the potential to endanger their family and friends. Say the Quarians had let the Geth progress in awareness, that is an immensely huge risk and very naive choice.

Why? Because there would always be the potential that the Geth would gain a preemptive strike on their family and friends. I don't think anyone was/is willing to take that risk with an unknown sentient machines (which I might add has never been created prior).

Modifié par SirCrimz, 23 février 2012 - 11:21 .

[Tobitto]

I will side with the quarians for moral reasons, but i will keep a save where i side with the Geth because theres a VERY SPECIAL thing that happens if you side with them and i NEED to see it.