143 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Zanath wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the reapers are still fighting what alliance forces are there, so they're not just steamrolling over us. the idea behind the whole concept is that the alliance as they are stand no chance at winning the war, but they can hold them off while shepard does what he needs to. weren't you paying attention to the subtext durnig anderson's farewell to shepard?

Then I'd wonder why the Reaper are supposedly so powerful if a single planet that has just barely got space technology 30 years ago can hold so many of them off for so long.
Aren't these guys supposed to wipe entire galaxies ?

Again, I'm more and more afraid that Bioware just went for the easy shallow way instead of pursuing the same "realism" we saw in the previous games...

You mean like when Shepard and his team killed Sovereign on foot?

[sorentoft]

Zanath wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the reapers are still fighting what alliance forces are there, so they're not just steamrolling over us. the idea behind the whole concept is that the alliance as they are stand no chance at winning the war, but they can hold them off while shepard does what he needs to. weren't you paying attention to the subtext durnig anderson's farewell to shepard?

Then I'd wonder why the Reaper are supposedly so powerful if a single planet that has just barely got space technology 30 years ago can hold so many of them off for so long.
Aren't these guys supposed to wipe entire galaxies ?

Again, I'm more and more afraid that Bioware just went for the easy shallow way instead of pursuing the same "realism" we saw in the previous games...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare

This is what humanity will do if we get attacked by an alien race today, in reality (which, I might add, is a very real threat).

[StartOrange]

Vigil said that the reapers persisted for centuries. Think of it; to kill all intelligent life on a planet, every bunker etc and be totally thorough... we could be talking about years for every planet here.

Say the reapers spent 500 years on killing the protheans. That could be a year or even more for large planets, aka Feros and a month for smaller settlements (aka 100 000 - 500 000). Remember that Vigil also said they indoctrinated people and used them as spies to root ut survivors. That doesn't sound like a week of siege to me, that is a long time.

They would have the luxury of time since the relays would be deactivated if everything went according to plan.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Shepard and the Humans will fight because it is their homeworld, so long as their is even a slim chance of saving it from total destruction they will do all they can to take it back.

As I said before though, I am most interested to see how Shepard and co manage to persuade some of the other races who may see things much as you have laid out in the OP. Why -should- they fight and die for the Human's homeworld, which looks almost certainly lost?

Because Shepard will help resolve the situation between the Geth and Quarians on Rannoch...

S/He'll help bring Palaven back for the Turians

Resolve the issues between the Salarians and Krogans on Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka respectively...

There will also be a bit about finding the way to defeat them.... by going to some place far off the beaten track and going through some puzzles and possibly losing a squadmate or two if the wrong decision is made... 
They'll then owe Shepard and as such will come help save Earth 


Oh and saving earth will come at a cost but Shepard can survive if they do something... 

Sound familiar 


FOR EARTH! FOR THE ALLIANCE!

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Zanath wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the reapers are still fighting what alliance forces are there, so they're not just steamrolling over us. the idea behind the whole concept is that the alliance as they are stand no chance at winning the war, but they can hold them off while shepard does what he needs to. weren't you paying attention to the subtext durnig anderson's farewell to shepard?

Then I'd wonder why the Reaper are supposedly so powerful if a single planet that has just barely got space technology 30 years ago can hold so many of them off for so long.
Aren't these guys supposed to wipe entire galaxies ?

Again, I'm more and more afraid that Bioware just went for the easy shallow way instead of pursuing the same "realism" we saw in the previous games...

I was thinking of a nice big response but then StartOrange beat me to it.  They're living space ships, they're not Frieza from DBZ.  :-/

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Shepard and the Humans will fight because it is their homeworld, so long as their is even a slim chance of saving it from total destruction they will do all they can to take it back.

As I said before though, I am most interested to see how Shepard and co manage to persuade some of the other races who may see things much as you have laid out in the OP. Why -should- they fight and die for the Human's homeworld, which looks almost certainly lost?

Because Shepard will help resolve the situation between the Geth and Quarians on Rannoch...

S/He'll help bring Palaven back for the Turians

Resolve the issues between the Salarians and Krogans on Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka respectively...

There will also be a bit about finding the way to defeat them.... by going to some place far off the beaten track and going through some puzzles and possibly losing a squadmate or two if the wrong decision is made... 
They'll then owe Shepard and as such will come help save Earth 


Oh and saving earth will come at a cost but Shepard can survive if they do something... 

Sound familiar 


FOR EARTH! FOR THE ALLIANCE!

If you look at the conflicts and the state of the galaxy, saving the council will probably go a long ways towards securing those 3 counsil races.  gaining the support of the asari and turians will probably be the most direct in the game, not featuring any super difficult decisions or anything.    The Salarians are opposed to the krogans and the quarian to the geth.  losing squadmates will probably have a significant impact on success with the krogans or the geth, which are the two races that would probably give you a greater edge in the war.  (theres also the raccni)

I'm really interested to see how these conflicts play out.

[Zanath]

AlexXIV wrote...

You mean like when Shepard and his team killed Sovereign on foot?

Shepard is the hero, he's allowed to stretch the realism.
And anyway, I don't remember Shepard destroying Sovereign with a gun, so your answer is completely bogus.

[Nimrodell]

Skyblade012 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Also there are probably a good amount of people still living there, even after the Reapers basically level everything.

If you carpet bomb an entire planet, it's population is screwed.  They may have survived the attack, but what will they eat?  Crops have been vaporized, so have megamarts.  Where is uncontaminated water?  What will you drink?

No, the planet, and all the humans on it, are screwed.  Unless the entire game takes a matter of weeks, there will be nothing left to save.

Majority doesn't have your cold-head logic. If you were Shepard and go out with such ideas in front of the Alliance soldiers, do you honestly believe they would follow you, anyone who suggests abandoning the Earth? Many of them probably have families down there, wives, kids, parents, friends... someone they know and love. It's selfish I know, and it's easier to hide behind great goals like 'it's our homeworld' or 'we'll show those bastards', but Shepard is actually not alone in that story and even s/he is colonist or a spacer, many from the Alliance aren't. I don't think that 'screw the planet, everything is destroyed anyway' argument would actually be accepted by majority and Shepard would be probably kicked in the butt if not killed by some human.
No one has won the war by mere droppong bombs from the sky - life is incredible and resillient and it finds almost surreal ways to conitnue - that's why Reapers need ground troops in shape of various husks forms but it also means, it'll take long time to actually wipe out the resistence and survivors. People that are left on Earth are fighting for their survival, meaning, they are ready to do just about anything - hide in horrible places, eat horrible things, live in filth and desease, but survive, and there are those on ships who have someone close to them left down there. Yes, I know, it's not rational, not logic, but that's something that is inherent to our species. Maybe if humans become reapers, they would accept that logic... but until you reaperase them, I'm afarid you'll have to settle for saving the Earth (metonymy for humanity that is left behind).

[AlexXIV]

Zanath wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

You mean like when Shepard and his team killed Sovereign on foot?

Shepard is the hero, he's allowed to stretch the realism.
And anyway, I don't remember Shepard destroying Sovereign with a gun, so your answer is completely bogus.

Shep knocks him out so the alliance fleet only needs to shoot him to pieces. Knockout is kinda the same just that he doesn't die from it, but as a result of it.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

 What I am curious about is whether we can choose NOT to help the other races, I forgot to mention going to Thessia in my previous post to help get Asari backing.. though now I think of it, probably because with one of my Shepard's I'd like the option to choose not to go there, namely because that Shepard didn't even go in the Crescent Nebula in ME2
One of the things that irked me a little about DAO was that there was originally an idea where you could completely wipe out any 'aide' from the two factions at the Circle Tower, simply by wiping out the Mages at the top then admitting to being a Blood Mage at the bottom and killing the remaining Templars there.
Then again, I guess it all boils down to the line Shepard can say in ME2 if you killed the alien council and go speak to the 2 Asari waiting to get off the Citadel (2nd quote in my sig)
That is why Earth needs to be taken back because we the only ones who can fix things 

[Zanath]

StartOrange wrote...

Vigil said that the reapers persisted for centuries. Think of it; to kill all intelligent life on a planet, every bunker etc and be totally thorough... we could be talking about years for every planet here.

Say the reapers spent 500 years on killing the protheans. That could be a year or even more for large planets, aka Feros and a month for smaller settlements (aka 100 000 - 500 000). Remember that Vigil also said they indoctrinated people and used them as spies to root ut survivors. That doesn't sound like a week of siege to me, that is a long time.

They would have the luxury of time since the relays would be deactivated if everything went according to plan.

To root out every single last survivor, sure it could take a lot of time.
But destroying armies and population centers, which mean basically 95 % of the population ? Doesn't take a lot of time.

Just like today, you could take years to kill every single person from a country, as small groups could hide in the wilderness, or underground or whatever. But you would only requires minutes to kill 90 % of the population, by bombing the cities.

To sum up : mopping up to have an ENTIRELY CLEAN planet can be long, but it's not the same as "being held off", and it seems that it's the latter which is the case.

[Medhia Nox]

I like to use this as a good reason - my Shepard would be a fan of these movies even a hundred years after their creation.

[StartOrange]

Zanath wrote...

To root out every single last survivor, sure it could take a lot of time.
But destroying armies and population centers, which mean basically 95 % of the population ? Doesn't take a lot of time.

Just like today, you could take years to kill every single person from a country, as small groups could hide in the wilderness, or underground or whatever. But you would only requires minutes to kill 90 % of the population, by bombing the cities.

To sum up : mopping up to have an ENTIRELY CLEAN planet can be long, but it's not the same as "being held off", and it seems that it's the latter which is the case.

We will see, but even if just 5 % survived, it could be enough. I am no biologist, but a few million could be a viable population and take a long time to root out. And it's worth saving.

Let's actually play the game before we drop the hammer shall we? 

Modifié par StartOrange, 21 février 2012 - 11:20 .

[Wulfram]

Coming to Earth out of gratitude would be silly. Shepard needs to give them a reason why it makes strategic sense. And a reason to think they wouldn't all get blown up.

If the Reapers really only wanted to wipe out every human, they could do most of the job from orbit with little problem. I mean, going by the codex a single human dreadnought could theoretically kill 21,600,000,000 people a day with it's main gun alone - though that's probably assuming only urban areas, and they probably don't carry enough ammo.

The only logical explanation is that they need/want Humans to gooify. Of course, even then strategically they'd still be better off to just destroy Earth's infrastructure, dump a few husks to keep everyone busy and then move on to try and force a decisive battle against the other major fleets before messing around with a ground war.

[Medhia Nox]

@Wulfram: Fighting a battle on someone else's planet makes a TON of sense.

[Nizzemancer]

yamomoto wrote...

because its the home-world for the human race. also i think time has a factor in ME3's ending, so say if you take earth back in a week most of the cities will still be standing(with Anderson alive) where as if you take it back a few months later it will be complete ash (with Anderson dead).

Oh god I hope not, I don't play a game to rush through it, if you want to do a speed run you go ahead and do that but leave my playstyle out of it

And the reason we're taking earth back is because Shepards grandmother is on Earth, in a retirementhome, listening to old records of Slim Whitman's Indian Love Call

You get a free Ninja-Smiley if you get the reference.

Modifié par Nizzemancer, 21 février 2012 - 11:44 .

[furryrage59]

You're asking people why they would want to take back their home world? Well, because it's their home world.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Zanath wrote...

StartOrange wrote...

Vigil said that the reapers persisted for centuries. Think of it; to kill all intelligent life on a planet, every bunker etc and be totally thorough... we could be talking about years for every planet here.

Say the reapers spent 500 years on killing the protheans. That could be a year or even more for large planets, aka Feros and a month for smaller settlements (aka 100 000 - 500 000). Remember that Vigil also said they indoctrinated people and used them as spies to root ut survivors. That doesn't sound like a week of siege to me, that is a long time.

They would have the luxury of time since the relays would be deactivated if everything went according to plan.

To root out every single last survivor, sure it could take a lot of time.
But destroying armies and population centers, which mean basically 95 % of the population ? Doesn't take a lot of time.

Just like today, you could take years to kill every single person from a country, as small groups could hide in the wilderness, or underground or whatever. But you would only requires minutes to kill 90 % of the population, by bombing the cities.

To sum up : mopping up to have an ENTIRELY CLEAN planet can be long, but it's not the same as "being held off", and it seems that it's the latter which is the case.

So basically you are admitting that you know nothing of how armies work when being bombed?  do you know what bunkers are?  they're built to withstand heavy attacks.  they also have air support.  a superior force cant always easily wipe out another.  we have far better military technology and surgical air strike capability but we've STILL got troops in the middle east.  the end of ME1 proved that a reaper can be taken down.  a fleet firing at a reaper can still blow it up.

what happens at the start of me3 is surprise occupation.  the fleets are mobilizing during that time.  the reapers tore through the "standard defenses"  fleets that werne't ready for that attack.  The alliance has more fleets out all over the terminus systems and council space.  If the alliance had taken the threat seriously they would have been better ready for a reaper attack on the planet, instead of relatively light defenses.  it wouldn't stop the reapers but it would have given them a fight.  a reaper can still die if you shoot it, its just got really really really good kinetic shielding.  also taking out ground forces from the air is difficult without a nuke.


Here's something: explain to me why the reapers would be able to whipe out an armed force in a week?  tearing through a turian or human fleet that wasn't expecting an attack is one thing, fighting a military force of an entire planet ruled by 3 governments?  I wouldn't be surprised if earth's military numbers in the billions, and thier fleets in the hundreds of millions.  thats still alot of fighting.

in the opening you see a dreadnaught fall, to reaper fire.  it was taking concentrated fire from multiple reapers.  Multiple dreadnaughts would be able to fare better, for instance.  also planets are ****ing big.  like, really really really big.  do you know how big?  super big.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 21 février 2012 - 11:41 .

[Wulfram]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Wulfram: Fighting a battle on someone else's planet makes a TON of sense.

If you've got some sort of chance of winning it, maybe.

But it's not like the reaper ground forces are a threat worth worrying about, really.  Just the reapers themselves.

[OneDrunkMonk]

Overall I believe BioWare (and EA to a lesser or larger extent) felt it needed to give the game enough emotional gravity or at the very least something gamers could easily relate to (Halo, Resistance, Half Life, etc. etc.). Honestly I don't see why BioWare/EA are so concerned. The first game did quite well, there was no need to do the ammo drop/heat sink in the second game. The second game did well too and it was full of alien species and worlds. If you read the forums over the years there was a strong indication that players found that which was alien to them as interesting if not more so than that which was familiar.

Personally I would have felt emotionally engaged whether the Reaper battle happened on Earth or Illium or Omega or in the midst of the Quarian fleet. My hopes for ME3 was that Shepard would travel around the universe helping repel the Reapers, but it looks like most of the action happens on Earth.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Wulfram: Fighting a battle on someone else's planet makes a TON of sense.

Man it totally didnt make sense for us to help out france and britain in world war 2

oh wait


oh wait ****.  this is like, one of those things.  where a thing in a videogame is just like a thing from real life and someone complains about it because they dont know about the world.  woww!  (someone get smudboy on the horn)


sorry if that was harsh but seriously, seriously.  history.  seriously now, history.  the best thing.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 22 février 2012 - 03:24 .

[lukex38]

i just hope there is a another reason too saving earth, not just because well its earth,
i hope there is something else on top of saving earth

[DJBare]

lukex38 wrote...

i just hope there is a another reason too saving earth, not just because well its earth,
i hope there is something else on top of saving earth

I would not expect it, it's symbolism, Earth the cradle of humanity.

[joejoe0099]

In mass effect two, shepard was minding his/her own business, patrolling for geth, keeping it cool and real, you know? When suddenly, a massive bee hive turd with super lasers comes from no where! Then, it goes and blows your ship up! Killing Shepard! and what does shepard do in response? He/she comes back from the dead and blows up not only the turd in space, but it's whole damn space station too.

Now you tell me; What will shepard's response be when humanity's home PLANET is destroyed?

[G3rman]

The reason anyone fights for things not really seen with a strategic value; Earth is seen as a symbol. At first just to humans as their home planet but when Shepard goes around the galaxy and gathers the races together its seen as a symbol too.