143 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

joejoe0099 wrote...

In mass effect two, shepard was minding his/her own business, patrolling for geth, keeping it cool and real, you know? When suddenly, a massive bee hive turd with super lasers comes from no where! Then, it goes and blows your ship up! Killing Shepard! and what does shepard do in response? He/she comes back from the dead and blows up not only the turd in space, but it's whole damn solar system too.

Now you tell me; What will shepard's response be when humanity's home PLANET is destroyed?

slight fix

[Aimi]

G3rman wrote...

The reason anyone fights for things not really seen with a strategic value; Earth is seen as a symbol. At first just to humans as their home planet but when Shepard goes around the galaxy and gathers the races together its seen as a symbol too.

Relevant real-world example: 1261

[Medhia Nox]

@Doctor_Jackstraw: I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not... I was saying that it made sense to fight and win your battle on someone else's turf... and then you "seemed" to say: "Man, are you stupid or what... history is full of times when it was really smart to fight on other people's turf."

Maybe you thought I was being sarcastic... not sure.

[Fenton]

They busted down our home, raided our fridge and left one nasty mess. So to me that's call giving out paybacks. That's why we want our planet back, someone went into our homeworld and basically said we can mess with the human race.

[Medhia Nox]

I'm not sure if anyone has even stated the obvious:

"NOBODY steps on a church in my town!" - Doctor Peter Venkman

[rwilli80]

The main factor if the world is indeed surged then I would say pride and revenge. It would be like someone coming into your house, forcing you out, and burning it down. Wouldn't you want to get them back even after you lost everything?

[Major League]

well, we only see reapers landing in cities. alot of people live in small towns on the country side

[FoxShadowblade]

Major League wrote...

well, we only see reapers landing in cities. alot of people live in small towns on the country side

We also see thousands upon thousands of Reapers entering the atmosphere in the new extended trailer..  It's safe to assume that with the destruction one Reaper could cause, that Earth would be annihiliated within a few hours at the rate BioWare shows.

But we are saving Earth because practicality was thrown out the window the second we started playing a game.

[Xivai]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Xivai wrote...

They want humans, and despite the video showing tons of husks. We have no idea how much time lapsed, it could be when they're fighting that is near the end of the game when they do go back to Earth. If you blow up Earth then there are no more humans sure, but then the Reapers instantly leave and turn their attention on the fleet blowing it up. In one fell swoop you've just lost a planet, a rare resource, and a a large fleet. Now you've got Reapers full of husk slaves heading towards the Citadel.

Um, if you are sending ground troops down and the Reaper fleet is not already eliminated, you are one of the biggest idiots in military tactical history.  Whoever controls orbit controls the planet.  Ground troops cannot fight orbiting ships, and orbiting ships can completely eliminate any ground forces with ease and with no fear of reprisal.  Your landing fleet would be eliminated in a couple of shots by a Reaper.

And if you control the orbit, they you are just as stupid to put your troops in harms way when you don't have to.

Why would you ever want them to be done with it? Give them their chew toy while you assemble the necessary forces to fight them. Then once you beat them, take it back. Worlds that are habitable are really rare. Not to mention the extinction of a species does take a long time, there are always survivors. Survivors your going to need to save unless you really do want every last human turned into a husk making the eventual take back that much worse.

I could go on, but it's a very strategic value. The fact that it's important enough for the Reapers to hit before the CItadel should highlight there's something important there, and thye want it.

What exactly makes you think the world is habitable anymore?  I certainly doesn't look like a habitable world.  A field of sunflowers, a completely non-threatening target containing a single human girl, has been reduced to ash.  Nothing growing, nothing left.  That's for a target that could not have logically been a priorty.  Now imagine what has happened to the cities.

And the sheer amount of bombardment we see in the trailers, previews, and the demo shows that the Earth is basically unihabitable anyway.  So much dust and ash would have been kicked up that the entire planet would have been shunted into a massive ice age due to a major blockage of solar radiation.  It would be pretty much the asteroid strike that killed the dinosaurs all over again.  The damage is done, the ecosystem is fried, and, without it, Earth isn't a garden world anymore.

iakus wrote...

1) 11 billion humans live there, the vast majority of the human species, I assume
2) It's humanity's homeworld
3) I keep all my stuff there

1) Lived, past tense.
2) So?  It's also a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust.  The very air you breathe is a poisonous fume.  Not worth fighting for.
3) Unless you're Earthborn, you've never even been on the planet before the intro.

The majority of the species is on Earth, letting even the survivors die off would be catastrophic and tick humanity one point closer to extinction. After the Reapers are defeated whole alien civilizations will scramble to colonize planets, and humans aren't going to have the man power. They won't even have the manpower to defend themselves.

So while you DO have the ground forces to ensure long term victory then go and do that. Orbital bombardment will surely finish the last of the humans. So the Reapers are gone in orbit, but youre going to need to go on the ground.

Also it would be easy to rig a mass effect field to gather the dust particles. With the advanced fabricatore machines availlable I predict a likely recovery for earth from dust within a a year or two if enough of the rudimentary devicces are constructed. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to, there only simple mass effect field generators that would collect the dust. Done, solved, so much for your theory of destroying the entire planet.

Haters gonna hate.

[Iyan008]

The most pragmatic and ruthless strategy:

-Evacuate all humans we can.
-Wait for all the Reapers
-Destroy the Mass Relee and send him to hell with a super nova.

[4ut0b4hn5child27]

Earth is our Homeworld and also where all the Humans (Us) come from and also the place where the reapers can destroy and harvest first Imagine if we cannot save Earth in the later time The REAPER will be easy enough to move to another human colony to do the same thing as earth adn all human will go Extinction, after that they''l lcontinue to reap every single races.

Ignoring one planet means, We gives the Reapers Huge chance for doing galactic extinction and since Earth will likely heavily guarded as 'harvest garden' as the peasant do.

So Shepard better find Solution to save earth rather than stumble around earth and of course get killed/harves/reaperized .By uniting all race that also have the same problem. Once all problem in the others alien planet solved,

it's the time Shepard rally to attack their fortress which places in our homeworld itself by Conquering or 'TAKE IT BACK' what is ours. This timenot only Earthlings, but all Species around galaxy and in the current time.

Take example that Earth is Embassy's Command Center of citadel community. And Citadel itself is the place where all the races gather together.

Homeworlds destroyed, it means whe already lost 'value' as earthlings. Do you know that little Volus always saying us Earth-Clan and what Volus mock to the Quarian? 'CLANLESS' and that was INSULTING, you want that?

Even some human i think even has short temper being mocked like that. I think all you guys know what kind of races we are.

Wherever colony we stay and buld, all other species will 'STILL' call us "Earthlings". hearing that with our world destroyed, will open the old wound.

So, even our world become a barren rock, as long is not destroyed into pieces like what happened to Bahak System we still can rebuild it even from scrath.

Maybe this is out of topic, think that as TITAN A.E Movie, waht happened to us when our planet get destroyed right in front of our eyes. Sad right ?(Even not all, but still many of them feel that way)

Sorry if this long and very confusing also has a bad english grammar.

[4ut0b4hn5child27]

4ut0b4hn5child27 wrote...

Earth is our Homeworld and also where all the Humans (Us) come from and also the place where the reapers can destroy and harvest first Imagine if we cannot save Earth in the later time The REAPER will be easy enough to move to another human colony to do the same thing as earth adn all human will go Extinction, after that they''l lcontinue to reap every single races.

Ignoring one planet means, We gives the Reapers Huge chance for doing galactic extinction and since Earth will likely heavily guarded as 'harvest garden' as the peasant do.

So Shepard better find Solution to save earth rather than stumble around earth and of course get killed/harves/reaperized .By uniting all race that also have the same problem. Once all problem in the others alien planet solved,

it's the time Shepard rally to attack their fortress which places in our homeworld itself by Conquering or 'TAKE IT BACK' what is ours. This timenot only Earthlings, but all Species around galaxy and in the current time.

Take example that Earth is Embassy's Command Center of citadel community. And Citadel itself is the place where all the races gather together.

Homeworlds destroyed, it means whe already lost 'value' as earthlings. Do you know that little Volus always saying us Earth-Clan and what Volus mock to the Quarian? 'CLANLESS' and that was INSULTING, you want that?

Even some human i think  has a short temper being mocked like that. I think all you guys know what kind of races we are.

Wherever colony we stay , all other species will 'STILL' call us "Earthlings". hearing that with our world destroyed, will open the old wound.

So, even our world become a barren rock, as long is not destroyed into pieces like what happened to Bahak System we still can rebuild it even from scrath.

Maybe this is out of topic, think that as TITAN A.E Movie, waht happened to us when our planet get destroyed right in front of our eyes. Sad right ?(Even not all, but still many of them feel that way)

Sorry if this long and very confusing also has a bad english grammar.

[Zanath]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

So basically you are admitting that you know nothing of how armies work when being bombed?  do you know what bunkers are?  they're built to withstand heavy attacks.  they also have air support.  a superior force cant always easily wipe out another.  we have far better military technology and surgical air strike capability but we've STILL got troops in the middle east.  the end of ME1 proved that a reaper can be taken down.  a fleet firing at a reaper can still blow it up.

I rather see that you admit to have no idea about what you're talking about, and are making downright idiotic comparisons (equating peacekeeping occuptation with today's technology vs bombing for extermination through orbital strikes by advanced alien forces ? Seriously ?)

Thousands of ships that suddendly arrive into orbit, each one able to fire something more powerful than a tactical nuke every couple of minute, and which don't care about environmental damage ? That means about 95 % of humanity eradicated in one hour. Anything else is just dumbing the scenario down to extract cheap emotional response (which fail when you see how forced it is).
Good story is when events follow and are consistent with your premises. What we have here is bad story to make room for shallow show, and it's not a good sign for the game's quality.

[eye basher]

Oh please people wouldn't complain about saving a planet if it was their turian boyfriends homeworld getting bombed and not earth oh and don't even get me started with the whole quarian girlfriend thing.

[Skyblade012]

Xivai wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

Xivai wrote...

They want humans, and despite the video showing tons of husks. We have no idea how much time lapsed, it could be when they're fighting that is near the end of the game when they do go back to Earth. If you blow up Earth then there are no more humans sure, but then the Reapers instantly leave and turn their attention on the fleet blowing it up. In one fell swoop you've just lost a planet, a rare resource, and a a large fleet. Now you've got Reapers full of husk slaves heading towards the Citadel.

Um, if you are sending ground troops down and the Reaper fleet is not already eliminated, you are one of the biggest idiots in military tactical history.  Whoever controls orbit controls the planet.  Ground troops cannot fight orbiting ships, and orbiting ships can completely eliminate any ground forces with ease and with no fear of reprisal.  Your landing fleet would be eliminated in a couple of shots by a Reaper.

And if you control the orbit, they you are just as stupid to put your troops in harms way when you don't have to.

Why would you ever want them to be done with it? Give them their chew toy while you assemble the necessary forces to fight them. Then once you beat them, take it back. Worlds that are habitable are really rare. Not to mention the extinction of a species does take a long time, there are always survivors. Survivors your going to need to save unless you really do want every last human turned into a husk making the eventual take back that much worse.

I could go on, but it's a very strategic value. The fact that it's important enough for the Reapers to hit before the CItadel should highlight there's something important there, and thye want it.

What exactly makes you think the world is habitable anymore?  I certainly doesn't look like a habitable world.  A field of sunflowers, a completely non-threatening target containing a single human girl, has been reduced to ash.  Nothing growing, nothing left.  That's for a target that could not have logically been a priorty.  Now imagine what has happened to the cities.

And the sheer amount of bombardment we see in the trailers, previews, and the demo shows that the Earth is basically unihabitable anyway.  So much dust and ash would have been kicked up that the entire planet would have been shunted into a massive ice age due to a major blockage of solar radiation.  It would be pretty much the asteroid strike that killed the dinosaurs all over again.  The damage is done, the ecosystem is fried, and, without it, Earth isn't a garden world anymore.

iakus wrote...

1) 11 billion humans live there, the vast majority of the human species, I assume
2) It's humanity's homeworld
3) I keep all my stuff there

1) Lived, past tense.
2) So?  It's also a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust.  The very air you breathe is a poisonous fume.  Not worth fighting for.
3) Unless you're Earthborn, you've never even been on the planet before the intro.

The majority of the species is on Earth, letting even the survivors die off would be catastrophic and tick humanity one point closer to extinction. After the Reapers are defeated whole alien civilizations will scramble to colonize planets, and humans aren't going to have the man power. They won't even have the manpower to defend themselves.

 
If you lose more people in retaking the planet than you save via the rescue, then you are being stupid, especially when the entire fate of your race is counting on you.  If we are worried about a limited human population, then throwing thousands of ground troops into a meat grinder is outright stupid.  We know we're going to lose them, both to the husks and other Reaper ground forces, and to indoctrination from Reaper devices on the planet.  We are going to kill off our troops by the millions that way.  "lol, head on assault FTW" is not effective military strategy, especially with limited forces.  Your job is to do the utmost possible to deal out the most damage you can, while saving as many of your forces as possible.

So while you DO have the ground forces to ensure long term victory then go and do that. Orbital bombardment will surely finish the last of the humans. So the Reapers are gone in orbit, but youre going to need to go on the ground.

If Orbital Bombardment will destroy any remaining survivors, then the Reaper's orbital bombardment would have already eliminated them.  QED.

Also it would be easy to rig a mass effect field to gather the dust particles. With the advanced fabricatore machines availlable I predict a likely recovery for earth from dust within a a year or two if enough of the rudimentary devicces are constructed. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to, there only simple mass effect field generators that would collect the dust. Done, solved, so much for your theory of destroying the entire planet.

Haters gonna hate.

Um, wrong.  First off, mass effect generators use gravitational anomalies to work.  Using them on a massive scale in the atmosphere wouldn't just affect dust, it would affect the entire atmosphere.  You'd set up huge pressure differentials, cause major storms, and wouldn't do a lot to clean up anything, just wreck more havoc.

Further, the game itself tells us this won't work.  The reason why the Citadel Conventions explicitly forbid the use of KEWs on garden worlds is because large scale orbital bombardment has a permanent effect on the planet's ecology.  It trashes garden worlds, leaving them unihabitable in a galaxy with limited resources.  In other words, the Citadel races are unable to clean up Earth after what the Reapers have done to it, and a few more airstrikes are not really going to trash it anymore than it already is.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

yamomoto wrote...

because its the home-world for the human race. also i think time has a factor in ME3's ending, so say if you take earth back in a week most of the cities will still be standing(with Anderson alive) where as if you take it back a few months later it will be complete ash (with Anderson dead).

That's a horribly condensed time table considering that, depending on where you are in the galaxy, it will take hours or even days at FTL to even reach a Mass Relay, a week would conceivably pass by time Shepard reaches the Citadel plot-wise.

[crimzontearz]

because there is an ARMY of freaking huskufied things on the ground and killing the reapers might not stop them

[LOLandStuff]

Because kicking ass on foot is badass.

[I_Jedi]

To help out Anderson's insurgency.

[Skyblade012]

crimzontearz wrote...

because there is an ARMY of freaking huskufied things on the ground and killing the reapers might not stop them

That's the point.  Why would you send your ground troops down to get slaughtered by that Army of huskified things when you can just sit safely in orbit, dropping rocks on them until 95% of them are gone, and then send in a cleanup force.

Why would you throw away millions of troops in a battle when you don't have to?

The usual reason for a ground assault rather than tactical bombardment is because you are trying to gain something.  For example, bombing a factory you want to use is not very helpful.  Destroying farms, and other infrastructure is a bad idea.  Also, if you are trying to capture or rescue someone, you need a human touch.  Bombs just won't do it.

The thing is, the Reapers have already bombed the place.  The infrastructure is shot, the farmlands are ash, and the entire place is infested with a Reaper army, Reaper indoctrination devices, and other such problems and traps.

You do not send troops into that sort of a situation.  There is no reason to, you will just get them killed.  A second orbital bombardment makes much more sense.  You will wipe out the majority of the husks, you can hit major Reaper artifacts, and take out trapped areas from orbit, without endangering your soldiers.  Anyone who survived the Reaper's attacks are probably hidden/armored enough to survive yours as well.  They've lived through continual destruction and bombing, what is one more salvo going to do?  You'll kill a few, probably, but not many, and far less than the forces you would lose in a head-on assault.

[MakeMineMako]

I'm not arguing against taking the fight to the Reapers if they are
still on Earth, I'm arguing about the senseless tactics in fighting a
ground war when it is unnecessary.  You are losing troops and men for no
reason.  If you get rid of the Reaper fleet, bomb the planet from orbit
(and if not, sending troops down is a waste).  It's already been
bombed from orbit, it's not really going to hurt it to have it happen
again.  Wipe out as many of the husks and Reaper devices in as safe a
manner as possible, don't just rush troops down there for no reason,
where they will be killed by husks or indoctrinated by Reaper devices.

What is there to gain?



Because of an example of simple, time tested conventional wisdom of warfare: The battle isn't won until the boys with the mud on their boots take the ground and hold it.

[SovereignWillReturn]

Because we want to regrow and repopulate Earth. it's what we do. We want Earth, we want it returned to it's former glory. So no Orbital Bombardment, no nukes, we want the planet back, so we gotta fight tooth and nail for every inch of land. End of story.

[Skyblade012]

Because of an example of simple, time tested conventional wisdom of warfare: The battle isn't won until the boys with the mud on their boots take the ground and hold it.

Yeah, well, here's another one.  Improper use of your tools gets your soldiers killed.

Take the battle of Iwo Jima (which was still prime real-estate at the time, unlike Earth is in-game, because we could use it for airfields).  Against the advice of the advisors and the Marine units actually going into the battle, Admiral Blandy refused the 10 day bombardment period, believing that the enemy had been mostly wiped out by the aerial missions over the past year, and instead allocated only 3 days for pounding that island into the ground (there was also some discussion about validity of keeping ammunition supplies up for a full 10 day period, but, again, not an issue in the ME example.  Let's not get this into an argument about the proper decisions and correct tactics in WW2, I'm just using it as a rough example).  As a result, most of the heavy emplacements were still intact underground, and we lost a lot of good men taking that island.  Sure, we won, but a longer sustained bombardment would have made that victory cost a lot less.

Modifié par Skyblade012, 22 février 2012 - 11:13 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Why didn't the Reapers attack the Citadel first? <----------------- better question.

[J.amber]

just throwing it out there but i'm pretty sure, the one's in power, don't really want mass civilian casualties by friendly fire and there would be billions lost if you had your way, i'm pretty sure the majority of the population of earth is still alive (takes the reapers awhile get things finished to their liking) .. that's not really hard to figure out why .. the generals councilors or w/e is in charge would probably find themself shot by their own people *most probably have family down there with some hope they're still alive*........ when one has rats in their house, they don't burn down their house to get rid of the problem