1876 réponses à ce sujet

[EuthanizeJenniferHamburgerHelper]

[I've got all the time in the world.]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 21 février 2012 - 11:28 .

[FoxyB]

smirtington wrote...

The jealousy comment was definitely the spark that burned the barn down. I don't think it would of blown up as it did without that tweet.

Maybe not. But unprofessional as it was, there is no way she deserved any of the harassment, before or after it.

[wildannie]

Jelefant wrote...

Christ, some people just can't understand jokes when they're shoved in their faces.

You've not got a very good sense of humour if you think that death threats are funny.

it's not a joke is psychological abuse.

Modifié par wildannie, 21 février 2012 - 11:24 .

[Blacklash93]

Merilsell wrote...

While I'm in no way a fan of her writing

Can I ask why?

I'm a little ignorant of the criticisms of her work, other than DA2 Anders (which I strongly disagree with).

[Siona]

conorrory wrote...

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

While I agree that these kind of unprecendented attacks on any individual are unwaranted and unfair, and Its good to see a company support their employee's I would ask Bioware to remind their employee's from a buisness and company representation point of view to conduct themselves in a polite and orderly manner without lowering themselves to the levels of harsh critics or indeed abusive commentors.

This is true in any line of work where you are a public face for any company.

While I respect the fact the your employee's rightfully defended themselves from these unwaranted attacks by organised groups such as reddit, the language used in defence was less than elequent and not befitting of a public persona.

"Rather than defend the person who was called at her own house about how she was cancer and should miscarry and just die, I'm going to instead attack how she wasn't NICE to defend herself!"

Are you being serious with this right now?

I'll just say it: if this had been a guy doing this, I'd bet everyone would be kissing his ass to high heaven and praising him for being such a badass. But, nope, a woman does it and suddenly she's ~unprofessional~ for not bowing down to assmunches.

I never attacked her I support the fact that she should not be victimised, however working in pr myself I found comments from some bioware staff to be unprofessional, I was more so citing quotes made by one Aaryn Flynn.

why do you have to bring sex into this argument when I never even touched upon it in any shape or form in my original post?

Because a good portion of this IS based in sexism -- when multiple people are getting off on using slurs that focused on her being female, they're the ones bringing sexism into it.

And let's be frank, when men lash out against their attackers, they're almost always held up as being brawny and brave. But a woman does the same thing, suddenly she's a **** who talks to much. 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

JexyG wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

In a nutshell, someone took an interview/forum post of hers from ages ago (over a year?) and doctored it to include things she'd never said, then used it to fuel a hate campaign. But you can find more with a basic google search if you want the whole sordid story.

That's ridiculous.  What is wrong with people? 

Some of them enjoy dishing out harassment. Others do it for the attention they get. A few are following the crowd and don't know any better. The worst breed believe they're entitled to what they do and have a right to treat others poorly.

Fortunately there are plenty of other people willing to support their victims. Hepler has good colleagues, fans who care about her, and even those who don't like her writing have deplored some of what's been said/done to her. Not everyone has that kind of support.

[Bladefist_01]

I'm very against bullying, but every seems to have forgotten this all started out with criticisms made to Ms. Hepler to which she replied "At least I have (female genitals) and a job in the games industry, and they wil get neither." Are we going to get any form of apology for this statement? Because quite honestly I was offended by such a statement.

[Kami102]

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense.

Uh, yeah, they are within most parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S. What country do you live in that they're not?

This.

If somebody leaves you a death threat over the telephone, you have every right to report it to the police where they can take action against the person.

The person may think it was harmless and funny, but death threats are something police do not take lightly.

[Aeowyn]

CG50 wrote...

Arnagath wrote...

I actually agree with her, the battles in dragon age 2 are so terrible (because of spawns and the unability to talk your way through) so I think it would be welcome to skip them. They are by far the worst part of the game. Dragon Age fights where not allot better (the tactical element from Baldurs Gate is gone).

Either make battles interesting or make them shorter/let us skip them. 

 If they take the gameplay out of the game, it's not really a game then. It's more like an interactive movie (which might actually happen in the future who knows?). I think ME3 tried to address it by have the story mode though (which i'm against but people have their play styles). 

And what people don't understand is that story mode is only easier combat. It doesn't skip combat (from what I saw when I tested it at least). I'd imagine it's similar to "Tell Me A Story" in Deus Ex: HR. And hey, do you know that you can skip combat and car chase scenes in LA Noire after 2 failed attempts? 

[Andhaira]

Aeowyn wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

I would like to interject for a moment. What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense. I can understand murdering her child or blowing up her car as "sort of going too far", but please don't put labels on things you don't understand. Christ, some people just can't understand jokes when they're shoved in their faces.
I'm not saying she deserved it, but I'm DEFINITELY not saying she DIDN'T deserved it either

You're joking, right? Since when it death thread phone calls ever "innocent pranks"? There's nothing "innocent" about it. 

If even the law does not consider that a federal offense then eh... how could you?

[Jelefant]

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense.

Uh, yeah, they are within most parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S. What country do you live in that they're not?

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

[Dirtyjuice]

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

While I agree that these kind of unprecendented attacks on any individual are unwaranted and unfair, and Its good to see a company support their employee's I would ask Bioware to remind their employee's from a buisness and company representation point of view to conduct themselves in a polite and orderly manner without lowering themselves to the levels of harsh critics or indeed abusive commentors.

This is true in any line of work where you are a public face for any company.

While I respect the fact the your employee's rightfully defended themselves from these unwaranted attacks by organised groups such as reddit, the language used in defence was less than elequent and not befitting of a public persona.

"Rather than defend the person who was called at her own house about how she was cancer and should miscarry and just die, I'm going to instead attack how she wasn't NICE to defend herself!"

Are you being serious with this right now?

I'll just say it: if this had been a guy doing this, I'd bet everyone would be kissing his ass to high heaven and praising him for being such a badass. But, nope, a woman does it and suddenly she's ~unprofessional~ for not bowing down to assmunches.

I never attacked her I support the fact that she should not be victimised, however working in pr myself I found comments from some bioware staff to be unprofessional, I was more so citing quotes made by one Aaryn Flynn.

why do you have to bring sex into this argument when I never even touched upon it in any shape or form in my original post?

Because a good portion of this IS based in sexism -- when multiple people are getting off on using slurs that focused on her being female, they're the ones bringing sexism into it.

And let's be frank, when men lash out against their attackers, they're almost always held up as being brawny and brave. But a woman does the same thing, suddenly she's a **** who talks to much. 

Really, she should have ignored it and not put her own gender into the equation. Getting salty over internet comments is pretty weak.

[MissOuJ]

OrkMan491 wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

The way Jennifer Hepler has been treated by so called "fans" and certain individuals of the gaming community has been inexcusable, disgusting and utterly lacking in basic human decency. And I'm disappointed to see it on BSN as well.

But I'm very glad BioWare has publicly given its support, and am pleased to see there still are companies that care for their employees well-being.

My best wishes to Hepler, and all the people who've taken initiative in challenging the culture of internet harassment - particularly when it is directed at women who can't do his job properly and a lot people angry about it. You people rock!

Fixed

No.

In my opinnion, Hepler is a very good writer. Jennifer has writen awesome stuff, like most of the Dwarf culture/origins stories in DAO, which are one of my favourite parts of the game.

But this conversation isn't about that, not by a long shot. If it was, people whouldn't use gendered insults, harass her and people who've defended her on Twitter (see here) - all because of quotes which have been taken out of context to begin with.

If I remember correctly, the full quotes specified she has poor hand-eye-coordination and limited time to use for gaming, so she said she'd like to be able to skip combat if it got too challenging and made it impossible for her to finish the story she was otherwise enjoying. She didn't at any point say she wanted BioWare to make combat universally easier/for them to make visual novels/anything else. She advocated for making games more accessible for people who enjoy interactive experiences but don't enjoy intensive combat that much/don't have time to replay a difficult encounter over and over and over again. How utterly horrible of her.

Also, personally, I'd be more worried if one of the Senior Writers had said "God I hate writing, I wish I was one of the Lead Gameplay Designers instead".

There are legitimate ways of air greavances. You think Dwarven Commoner origin wasn't up to your standards? Did you think Sebastian's dialogue wasn't up to parr with, say Merrill's? If this is the case, there are ways to communicate this to other likeminded individuals without using insults, bullying tactics or engaging in the sort of horrible behaviour some gamers have engaged in. And that's what this conversation is about.

[Siona]

Jelefant wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense.

Uh, yeah, they are within most parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S. What country do you live in that they're not?

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

I couldn't give less of a rat's fart if it's a criminal offense or not, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

[JigabooJones]

I agree that the harassment was pretty heavy-handed. Most of it was just fat talk and no real intention, but we've really got to look at the weight of the real criticisms that were among them. By the looks of it, people seem to think her writing in DA2 and TOR is bloated and lacking in quality, but I'm sure in time Hepler will learn to trim the fat and improve.

[Merci357]

Jelefant wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense.

Uh, yeah, they are within most parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S. What country do you live in that they're not?

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

And a criminal offense is something to laugh at?

[thats1evildude]

Esquin wrote...

The thing is that it was her opinions of game play that caused the DA2 battles to be so terrible. She wanted to make combat as meaningless as possible for those who don't enjoy it. It was her choices and feelings that made the game's gameplay so separate from the story.

Even if the combat in DA2 was universally disliked (and it's not, I happen to like it just fine), that doesn't make any sense. How do you make a game better by making one part of it really bad?

[Aeowyn]

Andhaira wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

I would like to interject for a moment. What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense. I can understand murdering her child or blowing up her car as "sort of going too far", but please don't put labels on things you don't understand. Christ, some people just can't understand jokes when they're shoved in their faces.
I'm not saying she deserved it, but I'm DEFINITELY not saying she DIDN'T deserved it either

You're joking, right? Since when it death thread phone calls ever "innocent pranks"? There's nothing "innocent" about it. 

If even the law does not consider that a federal offense then eh... how could you?

Edit: Criminal offense is okay now?

Modifié par Aeowyn, 21 février 2012 - 11:27 .

[smirtington]

Siona wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

I would like to interject for a moment. What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense. I can understand murdering her child or blowing up her car as "sort of going too far", but please don't put labels on things you don't understand. Christ, some people just can't understand jokes when they're shoved in their faces.
I'm not saying she deserved it, but I'm DEFINITELY not saying she DIDN'T deserved it either

I don't know what world you're living in where calling a stranger's house to tell them to die isn't construed as hurtful and wrong.

wtf is this post I cannot even

Did someone actually call her house? Because all I've heard is hear-say about it.

[Noviere]

Esquin wrote...

The thing is that it was her opinions of game play that caused the DA2 battles to be so terrible. She wanted to make combat as meaningless as possible for those who don't enjoy it. It was her choices and feelings that made the game's gameplay so separate from the story.

It was?! Weird. I thought Jennifer Hepler was just a writer, and had nothing to do with the design of the actual gameplay/combat mechanics.

Modifié par Noviere, 21 février 2012 - 11:27 .

[Blacklash93]

Bladefist_01 wrote...

I'm very against bullying, but every seems to have forgotten this all started out with criticisms made to Ms. Hepler to which she replied "At least I have (female genitals) and a job in the games industry, and they wil get neither." Are we going to get any form of apology for this statement? Because quite honestly I was offended by such a statement.

People don't generally respond well to death threats and people calling their career a hackjob. It was unprofessional, but it was understandable.

[Pinkflu]

OrkMan491 wrote...

Here is a question for you: do you think if that interview wouldn't happen, then Hepler would be still "victimized by sexism"? Clearly not, but by your logic, you are saying that her bad performance has nothing to do with this whole case.

Actually, I would believe that. I believe that all people are victimized by sexism in a patriarchal society.

You appear to have misunderstood my argument. While I can't possibly have an opinion on her performance, as I've not played the games she's written for, I have stated dissastisfaction with her work as a factor in her treatment in previous posts. I'm arguing that sexism was another influencing factor in the BS she's been subjected to.

[Andhaira]

Siona wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense.

Uh, yeah, they are within most parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S. What country do you live in that they're not?

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

I couldn't give less of a rat's fart if it's a criminal offense or not, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

So what next? Are you gonna go outside and go vigilante on whomever does something you don't consider to be "right"?

What you promote is pure anarchy with that line of thinking.

Modifié par Andhaira, 21 février 2012 - 11:28 .

[Siona]

Andhaira wrote...

Siona wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense.

Uh, yeah, they are within most parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S. What country do you live in that they're not?

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

I couldn't give less of a rat's fart if it's a criminal offense or not, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

So what next? Are you gonna go outside and go vigilante on whomever does something you don't consider to be "right"?

What you promote is pure anarchy with that line of thinking.

Way to jump from Point A to point Q. 

[Dirtyjuice]

Aeowyn wrote...

Andhaira wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

I would like to interject for a moment. What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense. I can understand murdering her child or blowing up her car as "sort of going too far", but please don't put labels on things you don't understand. Christ, some people just can't understand jokes when they're shoved in their faces.
I'm not saying she deserved it, but I'm DEFINITELY not saying she DIDN'T deserved it either

You're joking, right? Since when it death thread phone calls ever "innocent pranks"? There's nothing "innocent" about it. 

If even the law does not consider that a federal offense then eh... how could you?

Edit: Criminal offense is okay now?

Its not an offense on the federal level unless it involves national security. Each state has their own laws regarding threats.