1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Siona]

Andhaira wrote...

Siona wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense.

Uh, yeah, they are within most parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S. What country do you live in that they're not?

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

I couldn't give less of a rat's fart if it's a criminal offense or not, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

So what next? Are you gonna go outside and go vigilante on whomever does something you don't consider to be "right"?

What you promote is pure anarchy with that line of thinking.

lol how, because I think it isn't exactly fair to call someone at their private home and tell them they need to die over a damn video game?

[thats1evildude]

Jelefant wrote...

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

I don't follow your point. Making death threats is against the law and a judge may sentence you to fines or possible jail time. I have been present at the sentencing of individuals who made death threats. They're never regarded as "harmless pranks."

Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 février 2012 - 11:31 .

[Andhaira]

Siona wrote...

Way to jump from Point A to point Q. 

What, am I doing something you consider to be "wrong" by your predefined set of standards? Is that how you would deal with somebody that does not share your same line of thinking?

Deflecting my question does not make it go away.

[Jelefant]

Merci357 wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense.

Uh, yeah, they are within most parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S. What country do you live in that they're not?

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

And a criminal offense is something to laugh at?

The fact that it's a criminal offense by itself is not what causes hilarity. It's the fact that Mrs H.H. actually starts a scandal on the internet instead of just quitting her job at bioware

[John Epler]

The precise legal ramifications of people's actions are entirely irrelevant to this thread, so let's end that entire line of discussion now, shall we?

[Dirtyjuice]

Pinkflu wrote...

OrkMan491 wrote...

Here is a question for you: do you think if that interview wouldn't happen, then Hepler would be still "victimized by sexism"? Clearly not, but by your logic, you are saying that her bad performance has nothing to do with this whole case.

Actually, I would believe that. I believe that all people are victimized by sexism in a patriarchal society.

You appear to have misunderstood my argument. While I can't possibly have an opinion on her performance, as I've not played the games she's written for, I have stated dissastisfaction with her work as a factor in her treatment in previous posts. I'm arguing that sexism was another influencing factor in the BS she's been subjected to.

Actually no, there are plenty of great female writers that are praised well for their endeavors, including the writer for the Legacy of Kain series.

Hepler is just bad at writing, bad at handling random internet comments and is also apparently bad at taking criticism.

[Aeowyn]

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Andhaira wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

I would like to interject for a moment. What some people in this thread refer to as "going too far" are obviously just innocent pranks. Death threat phone calls? Seriously? That's not even a federal offense. I can understand murdering her child or blowing up her car as "sort of going too far", but please don't put labels on things you don't understand. Christ, some people just can't understand jokes when they're shoved in their faces.
I'm not saying she deserved it, but I'm DEFINITELY not saying she DIDN'T deserved it either

You're joking, right? Since when it death thread phone calls ever "innocent pranks"? There's nothing "innocent" about it. 

If even the law does not consider that a federal offense then eh... how could you?

Edit: Criminal offense is okay now?

Its not an offense on the federal level unless it involves national security. Each state has their own laws regarding threats.

Yeah, well I don't live in the US and I'd imagine that Jennifer Hepler doesn't either. 

Modifié par Aeowyn, 21 février 2012 - 11:32 .

[Satyricon331]

I'm sorry to hear Jennifer Hepler was the target of such garbage. Good on her for keeping her humor and I'm glad to see BW has her back. She has my support!

[conorrory]

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

While I agree that these kind of unprecendented attacks on any individual are unwaranted and unfair, and Its good to see a company support their employee's I would ask Bioware to remind their employee's from a buisness and company representation point of view to conduct themselves in a polite and orderly manner without lowering themselves to the levels of harsh critics or indeed abusive commentors.

This is true in any line of work where you are a public face for any company.

While I respect the fact the your employee's rightfully defended themselves from these unwaranted attacks by organised groups such as reddit, the language used in defence was less than elequent and not befitting of a public persona.

"Rather than defend the person who was called at her own house about how she was cancer and should miscarry and just die, I'm going to instead attack how she wasn't NICE to defend herself!"

Are you being serious with this right now?

I'll just say it: if this had been a guy doing this, I'd bet everyone would be kissing his ass to high heaven and praising him for being such a badass. But, nope, a woman does it and suddenly she's ~unprofessional~ for not bowing down to assmunches.

I never attacked her I support the fact that she should not be victimised, however working in pr myself I found comments from some bioware staff to be unprofessional, I was more so citing quotes made by one Aaryn Flynn.

why do you have to bring sex into this argument when I never even touched upon it in any shape or form in my original post?

Because a good portion of this IS based in sexism -- when multiple people are getting off on using slurs that focused on her being female, they're the ones bringing sexism into it.

And let's be frank, when men lash out against their attackers, they're almost always held up as being brawny and brave. But a woman does the same thing, suddenly she's a **** who talks to much. 

I do not hold pre-conceptions of anyone I do not know, be they male or female.
If you want to talk specifics of a singular bioware employee involved in this disgraceful incident sexist insults were involved and are in no way shape or form condoneable, however again I would like to re-iterate that when in a place of public representation(i.e. including your job title and employer on your account you are seen to be representitive of the company in the eyes of the public).

I apreciate your defence however I would like to point out that you appear to have pre-conceptions of your own.
For arguments sake why hasn't the same level of support been voiced for Mr Stanley Woo who is the victim of racist abuse by what is likely the same subset of people?

[JigabooJones]

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Pinkflu wrote...

OrkMan491 wrote...

Here is a question for you: do you think if that interview wouldn't happen, then Hepler would be still "victimized by sexism"? Clearly not, but by your logic, you are saying that her bad performance has nothing to do with this whole case.

Actually, I would believe that. I believe that all people are victimized by sexism in a patriarchal society.

You appear to have misunderstood my argument. While I can't possibly have an opinion on her performance, as I've not played the games she's written for, I have stated dissastisfaction with her work as a factor in her treatment in previous posts. I'm arguing that sexism was another influencing factor in the BS she's been subjected to.

Actually no, there are plenty of great female writers that are praised well for their endeavors, including the writer for the Legacy of Kain series.

Hepler is just bad at writing, bad at handling random internet comments and is also apparently bad at taking criticism.

Hey man, that's a pretty inflated statement you've made there.

[Siona]

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Pinkflu wrote...

OrkMan491 wrote...

Here is a question for you: do you think if that interview wouldn't happen, then Hepler would be still "victimized by sexism"? Clearly not, but by your logic, you are saying that her bad performance has nothing to do with this whole case.

Actually, I would believe that. I believe that all people are victimized by sexism in a patriarchal society.

You appear to have misunderstood my argument. While I can't possibly have an opinion on her performance, as I've not played the games she's written for, I have stated dissastisfaction with her work as a factor in her treatment in previous posts. I'm arguing that sexism was another influencing factor in the BS she's been subjected to.

Actually no, there are plenty of great female writers that are praised well for their endeavors, including the writer for the Legacy of Kain series.

Hepler is just bad at writing, bad at handling random internet comments and is also apparently bad at taking criticism.

Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

[thats1evildude]

Jelefant wrote...

The fact that it's a criminal offense by itself is not what causes hilarity. It's the fact that Mrs H.H. actually starts a scandal on the internet instead of just quitting her job at bioware

Why should she quit her job over the opinions of a few pinheads with a bloated sense of self-entitlement?

[R2s Muse]

I'm only going to add my support to Jennifer, and laud Bioware for making an official statement on this. What has happened to her is deplorable and sickening. I heartily thank her for writing some of my favorite characters!

[Dirtyjuice]

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

Uh, no, they are criminal offenses at worst, including Canada and the U.S.

I don't follow your point. Making death threats is against the law and a judge may sentence you to fines or possible jail time. I have been present at the sentencing of individuals who made death threats. They're never regarded as "harmless pranks."

Actually, threats are on a tricky level of lawful. Threats on the internet are not looked at unless it endangers the security of a large amount of people, or is a threat of national security.

However, this threat would be deemed empty and would not be looked at for very long.

[Mahtisonni]

[Inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 21 février 2012 - 11:35 .

[Siona]

conorrory wrote...

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

While I agree that these kind of unprecendented attacks on any individual are unwaranted and unfair, and Its good to see a company support their employee's I would ask Bioware to remind their employee's from a buisness and company representation point of view to conduct themselves in a polite and orderly manner without lowering themselves to the levels of harsh critics or indeed abusive commentors.

This is true in any line of work where you are a public face for any company.

While I respect the fact the your employee's rightfully defended themselves from these unwaranted attacks by organised groups such as reddit, the language used in defence was less than elequent and not befitting of a public persona.

"Rather than defend the person who was called at her own house about how she was cancer and should miscarry and just die, I'm going to instead attack how she wasn't NICE to defend herself!"

Are you being serious with this right now?

I'll just say it: if this had been a guy doing this, I'd bet everyone would be kissing his ass to high heaven and praising him for being such a badass. But, nope, a woman does it and suddenly she's ~unprofessional~ for not bowing down to assmunches.

I never attacked her I support the fact that she should not be victimised, however working in pr myself I found comments from some bioware staff to be unprofessional, I was more so citing quotes made by one Aaryn Flynn.

why do you have to bring sex into this argument when I never even touched upon it in any shape or form in my original post?

Because a good portion of this IS based in sexism -- when multiple people are getting off on using slurs that focused on her being female, they're the ones bringing sexism into it.

And let's be frank, when men lash out against their attackers, they're almost always held up as being brawny and brave. But a woman does the same thing, suddenly she's a **** who talks to much. 

I do not hold pre-conceptions of anyone I do not know, be they male or female.
If you want to talk specifics of a singular bioware employee involved in this disgraceful incident sexist insults were involved and are in no way shape or form condoneable, however again I would like to re-iterate that when in a place of public representation(i.e. including your job title and employer on your account you are seen to be representitive of the company in the eyes of the public).

I apreciate your defence however I would like to point out that you appear to have pre-conceptions of your own.
For arguments sake why hasn't the same level of support been voiced for Mr Stanley Woo who is the victim of racist abuse by what is likely the same subset of people?

So you grew up in a cultural bubble and don't have any form of social effect at all, good for you, hun.

Also, Hepler wasn't even on a place of public representation like the one you say where her job title or employer was mentioned on her account. It was her personal twitter account. Hers, not Bioware's. So your argument kind of falls flat.

[Pinkflu]

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Actually no, there are plenty of great female writers that are praised well for their endeavors, including the writer for the Legacy of Kain series.

Yes, I've no doubt. But I'm sorry - I don't see how this is a counter to any point I've made. Could you elaborate, please?

[MissOuJ]

Siona wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Hepler is just bad at writing, bad at handling random internet comments and is also apparently bad at taking criticism.

Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Exactly. You'd think it's not a very complicated and/or difficult concept to grasp...

[CG50]

Aeowyn wrote...

CG50 wrote...

Arnagath wrote...

I actually agree with her, the battles in dragon age 2 are so terrible (because of spawns and the unability to talk your way through) so I think it would be welcome to skip them. They are by far the worst part of the game. Dragon Age fights where not allot better (the tactical element from Baldurs Gate is gone).

Either make battles interesting or make them shorter/let us skip them. 

 If they take the gameplay out of the game, it's not really a game then. It's more like an interactive movie (which might actually happen in the future who knows?). I think ME3 tried to address it by have the story mode though (which i'm against but people have their play styles). 

And what people don't understand is that story mode is only easier combat. It doesn't skip combat (from what I saw when I tested it at least). I'd imagine it's similar to "Tell Me A Story" in Deus Ex: HR. And hey, do you know that you can skip combat and car chase scenes in LA Noire after 2 failed attempts? 

Skipping combat only works with certain games. If the main gameplay isn't combat like LA Noir (i'm guessing, i've never played it) then it's fine. But with games like ME3 the combat is kind of tied into the story, same with Deus Ex. Easy modes is fine but not skipping gameplay. In my opinion that is.

Modifié par CG50, 21 février 2012 - 11:38 .

[Andhaira]

Siona wrote...
Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Well all criticism that was directed at Bioware with the release of DA2 was simply ignored and the low user scores attributed to it were treated as "4chan trolling", people tend to get angry, and it so happened that Hepler was an easy target this time.

[Jelefant]

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

The fact that it's a criminal offense by itself is not what causes hilarity. It's the fact that Mrs H.H. actually starts a scandal on the internet instead of just quitting her job at bioware

Why should she quit her job over the opinions of a few pinheads with a bloated sense of self-entitlement?

Well, why should she NOT quit her job over the opinions of a horde of buffoons with a bloated sense of situational awareness? Not everyone is cut out for every job, we saw it here and we saw it many times before. Of course, bioware's CEO will say anything he needs to in order to keep what little illusion of integrity this company has since it sold out to EA

[Siona]

Aeowyn wrote...

CG50 wrote...

Arnagath wrote...

I actually agree with her, the battles in dragon age 2 are so terrible (because of spawns and the unability to talk your way through) so I think it would be welcome to skip them. They are by far the worst part of the game. Dragon Age fights where not allot better (the tactical element from Baldurs Gate is gone).

Either make battles interesting or make them shorter/let us skip them. 

 If they take the gameplay out of the game, it's not really a game then. It's more like an interactive movie (which might actually happen in the future who knows?). I think ME3 tried to address it by have the story mode though (which i'm against but people have their play styles). 

And what people don't understand is that story mode is only easier combat. It doesn't skip combat (from what I saw when I tested it at least). I'd imagine it's similar to "Tell Me A Story" in Deus Ex: HR. And hey, do you know that you can skip combat and car chase scenes in LA Noire after 2 failed attempts? 

Seriously! Red Dead Redemption does something similar, and I have yet to see people scream and moan about it.

[Dirtyjuice]

Pinkflu wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Actually no, there are plenty of great female writers that are praised well for their endeavors, including the writer for the Legacy of Kain series.

Yes, I've no doubt. But I'm sorry - I don't see how this is a counter to any point I've made. Could you elaborate, please?

You're saying she's being attacked for being a woman, when she is clearly not.

She's being attacked for being a poor writer, as well as not liking video games while working for a video game company. And then she bragged about being a woman working for a video game company while not liking video games.

[John Epler]

Jelefant wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

The fact that it's a criminal offense by itself is not what causes hilarity. It's the fact that Mrs H.H. actually starts a scandal on the internet instead of just quitting her job at bioware

Why should she quit her job over the opinions of a few pinheads with a bloated sense of self-entitlement?

Well, why should she NOT quit her job over the opinions of a horde of buffoons with a bloated sense of situational awareness? Not everyone is cut out for every job, we saw it here and we saw it many times before. Of course, bioware's CEO will say anything he needs to in order to keep what little illusion of integrity this company has since it sold out to EA

This would be an entirely inappropriate thread for this kind of sidebar. So let's cut it out, shall we?

[Xanatos Chimera]

Vosch wrote...

...

Keep it civil? You mean like when Aaryn Flynn told potential customers with valid criticisms to f*** off and called them idiots? That kind of civil?

Look at the tweet that Aaryn Flynn was responding to.*  That was not a valid criticism of any game it was a personal attack on Jennifer.  The user called her "the cancer that is killing Bileware [sic]".  Aaryn Flynn's response was directed to one specific tweet by one user, not at customers, potential or current, who were raising valid concerns or critiques of BioWare's products.

*The user in question has since protected their account so only followers can view the tweets.