1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Siona]

Andhaira wrote...

Siona wrote...
Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Well all criticism that was directed at Bioware with the release of DA2 was simply ignored and the low user scores attributed to it were treated as "4chan trolling", people tend to get angry, and it so happened that Hepler was an easy target this time.

So pretty much you think it's okay to make someone a scapegoat and then treat them like crap because some fanboys are upset over a video game.

[Dirtyjuice]

MissOuJ wrote...

Siona wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Hepler is just bad at writing, bad at handling random internet comments and is also apparently bad at taking criticism.

Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Exactly. You'd think it's not a very complicated and/or difficult concept to grasp...

You also missed that I said she's bad at handling random internet comments.

Being salty over strangers on the internet is a sign of psychological and self-esteem issues.

[Siona]

Pinkflu wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Actually no, there are plenty of great female writers that are praised well for their endeavors, including the writer for the Legacy of Kain series.

Yes, I've no doubt. But I'm sorry - I don't see how this is a counter to any point I've made. Could you elaborate, please?

There's a few women writers out there amid the hundreds of guys out there, gosh, sexis is over!!1!

[achris9]

 I just looked up what all happened and am completely appalled by how people have been acting.  Bioware is by far my favorite developer in the gaming industry and that is mostly due to the supereme stories that they are able to tell through their games.  Dragon Age: Origins was probably the game that so deeply pulled me into video games and made me the gamer I am today.  I'm so glad that Bioware has officially supported their writer and hope she gets through this tough time and continues to be a part of one of the greatest video game developing studios in the industry.

[John Epler]

Dirtyjuice wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Siona wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Hepler is just bad at writing, bad at handling random internet comments and is also apparently bad at taking criticism.

Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Exactly. You'd think it's not a very complicated and/or difficult concept to grasp...

You also missed that I said she's bad at handling random internet comments.

Being salty over strangers on the internet is a sign of psychological and self-esteem issues.

And another tangent that we're going to shut down right now.

[JigabooJones]

Siona wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

CG50 wrote...

Arnagath wrote...

I actually agree with her, the battles in dragon age 2 are so terrible (because of spawns and the unability to talk your way through) so I think it would be welcome to skip them. They are by far the worst part of the game. Dragon Age fights where not allot better (the tactical element from Baldurs Gate is gone).

Either make battles interesting or make them shorter/let us skip them. 

 If they take the gameplay out of the game, it's not really a game then. It's more like an interactive movie (which might actually happen in the future who knows?). I think ME3 tried to address it by have the story mode though (which i'm against but people have their play styles). 

And what people don't understand is that story mode is only easier combat. It doesn't skip combat (from what I saw when I tested it at least). I'd imagine it's similar to "Tell Me A Story" in Deus Ex: HR. And hey, do you know that you can skip combat and car chase scenes in LA Noire after 2 failed attempts? 

Seriously! Red Dead Redemption does something similar, and I have yet to see people scream and moan about it.

Because Red Dead Redemption is a far lighter game, it doesn't have a story as heavy and bloated as Dragon Age 2 or TOR.

[Yankee23]

What began as a positive show of support from a company to an employee that has been subjected to inappropriate, unacceptable and disgusting behavior from a group of "fans" has spiraled into the toilet, much like the rest of the BSN boards lately.

Keep it up BSN members, we wouldn't want anyone to think that respect, maturity or basic human decency has any place on these boards.

[Arnagath]

Esquin wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Arnagath wrote...

I actually agree with her, the battles in dragon age 2 are so terrible (because of spawns and the unability to talk your way through) so I think it would be welcome to skip them. They are by far the worst part of the game. Dragon Age fights where not allot better (the tactical element from Baldurs Gate is gone).

Either make battles interesting or make them shorter/let us skip them.

That's because gameplay was wholly divorced from the plot. Dragon Age II was built more like an MMORPG than an RPG. You did your fetch quest, turned it in and got treated to a little scene.

The thing is that it was her opinions of game play that caused the DA2 battles to be so terrible. She wanted to make combat as meaningless as possible for those who don't enjoy it. It was her choices and feelings that made the game's gameplay so separate from the story.

No, she is a writer. She had nothing to do with gameplay. She played the game and said: "this is terrible, I want to skip it". another way to solve it would be "this is terrible, lets fix it". both work. I would personally see the latter, however if they can't be bothered to fix the problems...

the problem boils down to allot of different things, casual gaming, wide fanbase ect. As working part time and studying computer science I completely understand the people that just want a bit of action for a few mins per day. The easy way to accomodate for these people is to dumb down the game. However this does not have to be the case. I am in several projects right now where we do game development that caters for a wider audience. Everything is built from the ground up to be modular. On a much lower scale but still not difficult on a larger project if you plan for it.

[Andhaira]

Siona wrote...

Andhaira wrote...

Siona wrote...
Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Well all criticism that was directed at Bioware with the release of DA2 was simply ignored and the low user scores attributed to it were treated as "4chan trolling", people tend to get angry, and it so happened that Hepler was an easy target this time.

So pretty much you think it's okay to make someone a scapegoat and then treat them like crap because some fanboys are upset over a video game.

Don't put words in my mouth. Where do you see me saying that what happened these past couple of days was ok?

What I'm saying is that Bioware's stance on ignoring most negative feedback in this past year would ultimately explode somewhere, and it so happened to be towards Hepler.

[Merci357]

Dirtyjuice wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Siona wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Hepler is just bad at writing, bad at handling random internet comments and is also apparently bad at taking criticism.

Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Exactly. You'd think it's not a very complicated and/or difficult concept to grasp...

You also missed that I said she's bad at handling random internet comments.

Being salty over strangers on the internet is a sign of psychological and self-esteem issues.

Said comments directed at her are also a sign of psychological issues, just to mention it.

[Briiel]

Yankee23 wrote...

What began as a positive show of support from a company to an employee that has been subjected to inappropriate, unacceptable and disgusting behavior from a group of "fans" has spiraled into the toilet, much like the rest of the BSN boards lately.

Keep it up BSN members, we wouldn't want anyone to think that respect, maturity or basic human decency has any place on these boards.

seconded <3

[Jelefant]

JohnEpler wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jelefant wrote...

The fact that it's a criminal offense by itself is not what causes hilarity. It's the fact that Mrs H.H. actually starts a scandal on the internet instead of just quitting her job at bioware

Why should she quit her job over the opinions of a few pinheads with a bloated sense of self-entitlement?

Well, why should she NOT quit her job over the opinions of a horde of buffoons with a bloated sense of situational awareness? Not everyone is cut out for every job, we saw it here and we saw it many times before. Of course, bioware's CEO will say anything he needs to in order to keep what little illusion of integrity this company has since it sold out to EA

This would be an entirely inappropriate thread for this kind of sidebar. So let's cut it out, shall we?

How is it inappropriate? That's exactly what this thread is about. Just because I'm stating unpopular opinions doesn't mean they're not worth their weight. I WILL cut it out now though, apparently not bending over for the EA overlords results in not being allowed to play your own games here.

Modifié par Jelefant, 21 février 2012 - 11:44 .

[Passionaticus]

Siona wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

CG50 wrote...

Arnagath wrote...

I actually agree with her, the battles in dragon age 2 are so terrible (because of spawns and the unability to talk your way through) so I think it would be welcome to skip them. They are by far the worst part of the game. Dragon Age fights where not allot better (the tactical element from Baldurs Gate is gone).

Either make battles interesting or make them shorter/let us skip them. 

 If they take the gameplay out of the game, it's not really a game then. It's more like an interactive movie (which might actually happen in the future who knows?). I think ME3 tried to address it by have the story mode though (which i'm against but people have their play styles). 

And what people don't understand is that story mode is only easier combat. It doesn't skip combat (from what I saw when I tested it at least). I'd imagine it's similar to "Tell Me A Story" in Deus Ex: HR. And hey, do you know that you can skip combat and car chase scenes in LA Noire after 2 failed attempts? 

Seriously! Red Dead Redemption does something similar, and I have yet to see people scream and moan about it.

Maybe thats because RDR has a fanbase that derived from GTA, third person driving+shooting game? While Bioware fanbase comes from a hardcore, smart, best-evar RPGs, that gone downhill.

Modifié par Passionaticus, 21 février 2012 - 11:44 .

[Pinkflu]

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Pinkflu wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Actually no, there are plenty of great female writers that are praised well for their endeavors, including the writer for the Legacy of Kain series.

Yes, I've no doubt. But I'm sorry - I don't see how this is a counter to any point I've made. Could you elaborate, please?

You're saying she's being attacked for being a woman, when she is clearly not.

She's being attacked for being a poor writer, as well as not liking video games while working for a video game company. And then she bragged about being a woman working for a video game company while not liking video games.

What I'm saying is that her being a woman was an influencing factor. She is being attacked by people who believe she is a poor writer, that's true. But I'm also saying that those attacks have been as disgusting as they were due in no small part to her being a woman.

This is not refuted by the existence of women in the gaming industry who are widely approved of. All it means is that when women fall foul of whatever unspoken rules the gaming community have constructed, they are persecuted for it to a greater degree than a man in the same position would be.

[Dirtyjuice]

Merci357 wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Siona wrote...

Dirtyjuice wrote...

Hepler is just bad at writing, bad at handling random internet comments and is also apparently bad at taking criticism.

Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Exactly. You'd think it's not a very complicated and/or difficult concept to grasp...

You also missed that I said she's bad at handling random internet comments.

Being salty over strangers on the internet is a sign of psychological and self-esteem issues.

Said comments directed at her are also a sign of psychological issues, just to mention it.

Which is why the situation was handled poorly by Bioware and should have just been ignored.

Mike Ross doesn't burst into tears whenever people call him a fraud.

[Siona]

JigabooJones wrote...

Siona wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

CG50 wrote...

Arnagath wrote...

I actually agree with her, the battles in dragon age 2 are so terrible (because of spawns and the unability to talk your way through) so I think it would be welcome to skip them. They are by far the worst part of the game. Dragon Age fights where not allot better (the tactical element from Baldurs Gate is gone).

Either make battles interesting or make them shorter/let us skip them. 

 If they take the gameplay out of the game, it's not really a game then. It's more like an interactive movie (which might actually happen in the future who knows?). I think ME3 tried to address it by have the story mode though (which i'm against but people have their play styles). 

And what people don't understand is that story mode is only easier combat. It doesn't skip combat (from what I saw when I tested it at least). I'd imagine it's similar to "Tell Me A Story" in Deus Ex: HR. And hey, do you know that you can skip combat and car chase scenes in LA Noire after 2 failed attempts? 

Seriously! Red Dead Redemption does something similar, and I have yet to see people scream and moan about it.

Because Red Dead Redemption is a far lighter game, it doesn't have a story as heavy and bloated as Dragon Age 2 or TOR.

Meaning what, that the latter are RPG games, which might attract RPG players who might look forward more to that element rather than combat?

Shocking.

[JigabooJones]

Edit: Post removed

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 21 février 2012 - 11:50 .

[Seething Hate]

Edit: Post removed

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 21 février 2012 - 11:50 .

[conorrory]

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

Siona wrote...

conorrory wrote...

While I agree that these kind of unprecendented attacks on any individual are unwaranted and unfair, and Its good to see a company support their employee's I would ask Bioware to remind their employee's from a buisness and company representation point of view to conduct themselves in a polite and orderly manner without lowering themselves to the levels of harsh critics or indeed abusive commentors.

This is true in any line of work where you are a public face for any company.

While I respect the fact the your employee's rightfully defended themselves from these unwaranted attacks by organised groups such as reddit, the language used in defence was less than elequent and not befitting of a public persona.

"Rather than defend the person who was called at her own house about how she was cancer and should miscarry and just die, I'm going to instead attack how she wasn't NICE to defend herself!"

Are you being serious with this right now?

I'll just say it: if this had been a guy doing this, I'd bet everyone would be kissing his ass to high heaven and praising him for being such a badass. But, nope, a woman does it and suddenly she's ~unprofessional~ for not bowing down to assmunches.

I never attacked her I support the fact that she should not be victimised, however working in pr myself I found comments from some bioware staff to be unprofessional, I was more so citing quotes made by one Aaryn Flynn.

why do you have to bring sex into this argument when I never even touched upon it in any shape or form in my original post?

Because a good portion of this IS based in sexism -- when multiple people are getting off on using slurs that focused on her being female, they're the ones bringing sexism into it.

And let's be frank, when men lash out against their attackers, they're almost always held up as being brawny and brave. But a woman does the same thing, suddenly she's a **** who talks to much. 

I do not hold pre-conceptions of anyone I do not know, be they male or female.
If you want to talk specifics of a singular bioware employee involved in this disgraceful incident sexist insults were involved and are in no way shape or form condoneable, however again I would like to re-iterate that when in a place of public representation(i.e. including your job title and employer on your account you are seen to be representitive of the company in the eyes of the public).

I apreciate your defence however I would like to point out that you appear to have pre-conceptions of your own.
For arguments sake why hasn't the same level of support been voiced for Mr Stanley Woo who is the victim of racist abuse by what is likely the same subset of people?

So you grew up in a cultural bubble and don't have any form of social effect at all, good for you, hun.

Also, Hepler wasn't even on a place of public representation like the one you say where her job title or employer was mentioned on her account. It was her personal twitter account. Hers, not Bioware's. So your argument kind of falls flat.

I can assure you I have not grown up in a cultural bubble, I chose not to allow the pre-concpetions of others to affect my outlook on life and I am sorry that you are unable to accept the outlooks of others.

I will not be dragged into a pointless argument with someone who has allready formed their own iron clad opion of the situation.

And again to re-iterate that i did not cite Ms Jenifer Helper in my argument and am in a state of bemusement as to why you keep dragging it back there. I cited another employee representing themselves as a Studio GM.

I hope you have a good evening and wish you many constructive conversations in the future,

Best Regards

[jontepwn]

I feel ashamed that this ever happened. I hope she's okay and continue doing what she loves.

[MissOuJ]

People! Listen up! Comments such as

I find her writing lacklustre and think she has no concept of pacing or

I really didn't enjoy Anders' story arc, and found his dialogue melodramatic

are criticism, and voice an opinnion of somekind. There are not harrassment - even if I personally find them to be completely false. Note complete lack of offending language and references to Ms. Hepler's person, family, and physical appearence.

Edited to remove quotation from a post by Onlythingharderthanherarteriesareipbans, which has been (thanfully) deleted already. Suffice to say, it was horrible, full of unneccessary hurtful language, and met no criteria for legitimate critism.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 21 février 2012 - 11:53 .

[Siona]

Andhaira wrote...

Siona wrote...

Andhaira wrote...

Siona wrote...
Calling someone cancer, telling them to miscarry, and calling them fat     /=/   criticism of any sort.

Well all criticism that was directed at Bioware with the release of DA2 was simply ignored and the low user scores attributed to it were treated as "4chan trolling", people tend to get angry, and it so happened that Hepler was an easy target this time.

So pretty much you think it's okay to make someone a scapegoat and then treat them like crap because some fanboys are upset over a video game.

Don't put words in my mouth. Where do you see me saying that what happened these past couple of days was ok?

What I'm saying is that Bioware's stance on ignoring most negative feedback in this past year would ultimately explode somewhere, and it so happened to be towards Hepler.

You're pretty much defending it, I fail to see how we're supposed to read your words any other way?

[Bladefist_01]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Bladefist_01 wrote...

I'm very against bullying, but every seems to have forgotten this all started out with criticisms made to Ms. Hepler to which she replied "At least I have (female genitals) and a job in the games industry, and they wil get neither." Are we going to get any form of apology for this statement? Because quite honestly I was offended by such a statement.

People don't generally respond well to death threats and people calling their career a hackjob. It was unprofessional, but it was understandable.

 'Unproffesional' is the understatement of the year, it was downright childish. And much of the criticism was in fact criticism, there were a few using less than proper language (I saw no death threats, mind you) but the real assault did not start until she provoked them.

 This whole situation is reminiscant of a primary school playground war, and then this is pushed even further by another employee getting involved in matters that he should not have been involved in. Yes, she should not have been "bullied" but I honestly want to see this addressed. I can tell you I have no intention to order another Bioware product knowing that they endorse this behavior, and I'm sure others will feel the same.

[Siona]

Briiel wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

What began as a positive show of support from a company to an employee that has been subjected to inappropriate, unacceptable and disgusting behavior from a group of "fans" has spiraled into the toilet, much like the rest of the BSN boards lately.

Keep it up BSN members, we wouldn't want anyone to think that respect, maturity or basic human decency has any place on these boards.

seconded <3

Let's face it, this is BSN, where good comments go to die. Everyone was expecting this.