1876 réponses à ce sujet

[ForteSJGR]

Life is too short to hate and be cynical. I'm glad Bioware supports their own employees like this.

Modifié par ForteSJGR, 22 février 2012 - 12:33 .

[Hyrist]

This isn't the first and most certainly isn't the last time I'll see crud like this.

Harassing anyone to that degree should never be appropriate in the least bit of sense. And to see this sort of behavior not only makes me agree with the Destructoid article, but also makes me question all these so called freedoms we cherish so much.

What's the point in totally free speech when you see what people do with it? BSN is no exception when you see all the rampant hate that gets expressed on any perceived flaw, actual or fictional.

Not that I'm suggesting we should suddenly give our freedoms away. But it might be time we start cracking down on these sort of actions, even the milder ones, a whole lot harder than we have. Both from a moderation and from a social standpoint.

Modifié par Hyrist, 22 février 2012 - 12:34 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Melca36 wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

Consumers have every right to complain about how they are being served. They got angry because they were provoked, not to mention another Bioware employee "fed the trolls" by starting to tell them to "F*ck off" and etc.
Miss Hepler is just an example of how Bioware's writing is starting to show signs of getting worse and worse, they should really address this problem.

Considering you just registered...you really have no credibility at all.

This. Also, the Flynn comment (I assume that's what CP was referring to) was directed at one person who rightfully deserved to be told to f--- off as far as I'm concerned.

[smirtington]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

smirtington wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
It's a private web forum wherein we have certain rules people agree to when they post here. Don't like them? Don't post here!

If you think this is unfair, well, such is life. I suggest you write your local political representative.

Same could be said about posting inflammatory remarks on twitter, an actual open forum for discussion. If you can't take the heat, don't go into the kitchen.

Have you ever heard of common human decency? The fact that people are oblivious, hateful and think they can say anything they want doesn't make it okay just because the policies on sites/forums/Twitter may allow it to go on. And if you think it's okay, well, I don't want you on my team if there's ever an actual zombie apocalypse (I keep hoping one happens in the forums, more and more with each day that passes here ).

Of which neither side showed, if you post something inflammatory expect to get inflammatory remarks back in spades. It's pretty simple.

Modifié par smirtington, 22 février 2012 - 12:35 .

[Bladefist_01]

JohnEpler wrote...

Bladefist_01 wrote...

Fenton wrote...

I'm glad Bioware is supporting thier employees. Having critisim is alright. Being an total jerk by using personal attacks and worse isn't alright. Those attacks that I've read was disgusting and uncalled for. Jennifier we have your support the fans of Bioware, your work and thier games we are supporting you.

You are completely right.

Were you one of the people originally attacking Jennifer? No? Then it's not directed at you.

If you were? Well, my sympathies are nonexistent. Either way, I've already addressed the whole position of 'WELL SHE DESERVED IT', and how it's not one that will continue in this thread.

No, it was not directed at me, it was directed to those giving honest criticism to her work, THEN the hate spewed "trolling" began.

Modifié par Bladefist_01, 22 février 2012 - 12:34 .

[Blacklash93]

Didn't Hepler also write the main plot of Legacy?

I believe somone said the writer who made it was on maternity leave and she's the only one who fits the bill.

[Melca36]

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

Consumers have every right to complain about how they are being served. They got angry because they were provoked, not to mention another Bioware employee "fed the trolls" by starting to tell them to "F*ck off" and etc.
Miss Hepler is just an example of how Bioware's writing is starting to show signs of getting worse and worse, they should really address this problem.

Learn the diffrence between complaning and insulting a person.

I didn't insult her intelligence, her weight or anything. The point is, she really needs to think about what is important in her work. And thats knowing what she is working for. She didn't deserve all the comments about her weight, but the complaints about the writing are pretty clear imho. They are targetting her when they should be intelligently complaining to the entire writing department.

And perhaps you should learn to take everything she said verbatum.

[John Epler]

A Fusing Shade wrote...

I feel that I must point out that, during this argument, as I have observed, people have tried  to discuss and comment on her work in a respectful fashion - though not always agree with it - and it has been editted, censored or removed. They were polite, made no attacks towards any member of Bioware but, simply stated their criticisms of Bioware, it's recent workings and other choices yet, vanished completely. 

I am moved to ask what you would define as "respectful fashion" as I am under the impression it simply means 'So long as it is possitive words along the lines of "This is the best game ever!"'

Though I am an old fan of Bioware I have seen how some employees have reacted towards the futile and childish actions of some anonymous users and I cannot think that it is a good representation of Bioware nor professional in anyway. I think a problem arises when both sides, both the agressors and Bioware itself, lower themselves to flinging mud and insults.

I mean no ill will in my statements, I am merely curious.

You'll have to show me the posts in question - I think we've been fairly good about leaving any non-vitirolic posts intact, but I'd be lying if I said that, in the heat of the moment, we might overreact.

However! There are a few good examples early on about taking issue with the statements made without attacking Jennifer as a person. And the latter is unacceptable.

[Sarrawei]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

Consumers have every right to complain about how they are being served. They got angry because they were provoked, not to mention another Bioware employee "fed the trolls" by starting to tell them to "F*ck off" and etc.
Miss Hepler is just an example of how Bioware's writing is starting to show signs of getting worse and worse, they should really address this problem.

Considering you just registered...you really have no credibility at all.

This. Also, the Flynn comment (I assume that's what CP was referring to) was directed at one person who rightfully deserved to be told to f--- off as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly. Helper has no obligation to take abuse from instigators.

[cmessaz]

Mr.House wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

Consumers have every right to complain about how they are being served. They got angry because they were provoked, not to mention another Bioware employee "fed the trolls" by starting to tell them to "F*ck off" and etc.
Miss Hepler is just an example of how Bioware's writing is starting to show signs of getting worse and worse, they should really address this problem.

Learn the diffrence between complaning and insulting a person.

I'll always come back to read Mr.House's posts.

I can't believe people are still saying what happened to her was just criticism. It's just trolling at this point. It's just the same butthurt over DA2 that is in other threads leaking into this one. People are using this thread as a reason to exclaim YET AGAIN how much they hated DA2. Nearly a year later . I was so disappointed with how BSN had gotten, and now I'm just disqusted.  Hepler didn't write all of DA2 guys. Even if she had she does NOT deserve to be told to go die. NOBODY does just because you didn't like DA2.

[Quionic7]

[Inanity removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 22 février 2012 - 12:37 .

[John Epler]

Bladefist_01 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Bladefist_01 wrote...

Fenton wrote...

I'm glad Bioware is supporting thier employees. Having critisim is alright. Being an total jerk by using personal attacks and worse isn't alright. Those attacks that I've read was disgusting and uncalled for. Jennifier we have your support the fans of Bioware, your work and thier games we are supporting you.

You are completely right.

Were you one of the people originally attacking Jennifer? No? Then it's not directed at you.

If you were? Well, my sympathies are nonexistent. Either way, I've already addressed the whole position of 'WELL SHE DESERVED IT', and how it's not one that will continue in this thread.

No, it was not directed at me, it was directed to those giving honest criticism to her work, THEN the hate spewed "trolling" began.

No. I'm sorry, but that's not true, and I'm quite certain that you know it. Given that this started as a result of a post referring to her as a cancer, your timeline is only feasible if we ignore causality. And since time travel remains theoretically impossible, that's not going to happen.

[sordurar]

[Inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 22 février 2012 - 12:38 .

[BillsVengenace]

The vile abuse is WRONG obviously.

However;

1) Hepler is not a particularly good writer and criticism is justified, as is a lot of the criticism directed at BioWare these days. It's a shame that because of the abuse BioWare will sweep ALL criticism under the carpet and blame it on trollish behavior and sexism. Sexism is not an issue here. Mary Kirby and other female members of BioWare staff have not been targeted. Hepler was targetted because of her comments which are emblematic of the decline of BioWare and because her work is not up to standard.

2) The abuse is a manifestation of people's angry towards BioWare for the appalling creative and PR decisions made by the company in recent years. It is regrettable that the angry was channeled at a specific person but BioWare have to admit they have a part to play here. You can't start a fire without a spark.

[Sarrawei]

The outrage from the hateful idiot contingent of players over DA2 just goes to show how Bioware should be marketing towards their kindlier, less bile-ridden enthusiasts. There's no reason to pander to regressive thought, when the brutes who subscribe to it won't be satisfied until every video game is World of Gor.

[visual novels]

[Please reacquaint yourself with our Site Rules. They are the same rules YOU agreed to follow and be governed by when you signed up.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 février 2012 - 12:43 .

[ConcernedPeanut]

Sarrawei wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

Consumers have every right to complain about how they are being served. They got angry because they were provoked, not to mention another Bioware employee "fed the trolls" by starting to tell them to "F*ck off" and etc.
Miss Hepler is just an example of how Bioware's writing is starting to show signs of getting worse and worse, they should really address this problem.

Considering you just registered...you really have no credibility at all.

This. Also, the Flynn comment (I assume that's what CP was referring to) was directed at one person who rightfully deserved to be told to f--- off as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly. Helper has no obligation to take abuse from instigators.

I never said she had to - the abuse was horrible. Doesn't mean that we should overlook the change Bioware needs to make in order to write better.
Also whether I made my account today, yesterday or five years ago, I enjoyed Biowares other games and I really don't want to see them fall further because of poor writing. Don't call me a hater because I want to see Bioware evolve into something better.

[AtreiyaN7]

smirtington wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

smirtington wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
It's a private web forum wherein we have certain rules people agree to when they post here. Don't like them? Don't post here!

If you think this is unfair, well, such is life. I suggest you write your local political representative.

Same could be said about posting inflammatory remarks on twitter, an actual open forum for discussion. If you can't take the heat, don't go into the kitchen.

Have you ever heard of common human decency? The fact that people are oblivious, hateful and think they can say anything they want doesn't make it okay just because the policies on sites/forums/Twitter may allow it to go on. And if you think it's okay, well, I don't want you on my team if there's ever an actual zombie apocalypse (I keep hoping one happens in the forums, more and more with each day that passes here ).

Of which neither side showed, if you post something inflammatory expect to get inlfammatory remarks back in spades. It's pretty simple.

Really? Excuse me while I laugh at that particular defense. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Nothing Hepler said ever merited those insulting and horrible comments. If she (rightfully) ended up p---ed off and anyone else (equally rightfully) ended up p---ed off, then I don't blame her or anyone else who may have flamed those morons right back. The people who posted the cancer comment and things like that should have thought first before opening their mouths. At the point where they actually posted their ill-conceived comments, they stopped deserving to be treated with any measure of respect or decency in kind.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 22 février 2012 - 12:41 .

[Andhaira]

JohnEpler wrote...

A Fusing Shade wrote...

I feel that I must point out that, during this argument, as I have observed, people have tried  to discuss and comment on her work in a respectful fashion - though not always agree with it - and it has been editted, censored or removed. They were polite, made no attacks towards any member of Bioware but, simply stated their criticisms of Bioware, it's recent workings and other choices yet, vanished completely. 

I am moved to ask what you would define as "respectful fashion" as I am under the impression it simply means 'So long as it is possitive words along the lines of "This is the best game ever!"'

Though I am an old fan of Bioware I have seen how some employees have reacted towards the futile and childish actions of some anonymous users and I cannot think that it is a good representation of Bioware nor professional in anyway. I think a problem arises when both sides, both the agressors and Bioware itself, lower themselves to flinging mud and insults.

I mean no ill will in my statements, I am merely curious.

You'll have to show me the posts in question.

How can he show you what has been censored/deleted?

[Xewaka]

BillsVengenace wrote...
You can't start a fire without a spark.

You can, with enough friction.

[Sarrawei]

[Do not engage.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 février 2012 - 12:46 .

[RosaAquafire]

BillsVengenace wrote...

The vile abuse is WRONG obviously.

However;

1) Hepler is not a particularly good writer and criticism is justified, as is a lot of the criticism directed at BioWare these days. It's a shame that because of the abuse BioWare will sweep ALL criticism under the carpet and blame it on trollish behavior and sexism. Sexism is not an issue here. Mary Kirby and other female members of BioWare staff have not been targeted. Hepler was targetted because of her comments which are emblematic of the decline of BioWare and because her work is not up to standard.

2) The abuse is a manifestation of people's angry towards BioWare for the appalling creative and PR decisions made by the company in recent years. It is regrettable that the angry was channeled at a specific person but BioWare have to admit they have a part to play here. You can't start a fire without a spark.

So, just to be clear.

There's a restaurant you really used to like. You go there one night and the meal absolutely stinks. You then telephone the chef at his house and tell him that he should kill himself, making sure to also threaten and insult his children.

The chef owes you an apology for cooking a bad meal?

[Blacklash93]

BillsVengenace wrote...

The vile abuse is WRONG obviously.

However;

1) Hepler is not a particularly good writer and criticism is justified, as is a lot of the criticism directed at BioWare these days. It's a shame that because of the abuse BioWare will sweep ALL criticism under the carpet and blame it on trollish behavior and sexism. Sexism is not an issue here. Mary Kirby and other female members of BioWare staff have not been targeted. Hepler was targetted because of her comments which are emblematic of the decline of BioWare and because her work is not up to standard.

Her work's quality is subjective and I absolutely disagree with the sentiment that she is not a good writer. Everything in Orzammar was great and that's really all I need to know about her writing. The Origins she wrote were some of my favorites.

And Hepler has said nothing that coincides with the "decline of Bioware", as you call it. People have simply targeted her because she said something they didn't like and were looking for reasons to hate on her because of it.

2) The abuse is a manifestation of people's angry towards BioWare for the appalling creative and PR decisions made by the company in recent years. It is regrettable that the angry was channeled at a specific person but BioWare have to admit they have a part to play here. You can't start a fire without a spark.

I'd rather let Bioware "fall" then have them listen to whatever point these people are trying to get across. They don't deserve it.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 22 février 2012 - 12:44 .

[Hyrist]

BillsVengenace wrote...

The vile abuse is WRONG obviously.

However;

1) Hepler is not a particularly good writer and criticism is justified, as is a lot of the criticism directed at BioWare these days. It's a shame that because of the abuse BioWare will sweep ALL criticism under the carpet and blame it on trollish behavior and sexism. Sexism is not an issue here. Mary Kirby and other female members of BioWare staff have not been targeted. Hepler was targetted because of her comments which are emblematic of the decline of BioWare and because her work is not up to standard.

2) The abuse is a manifestation of people's angry towards BioWare for the appalling creative and PR decisions made by the company in recent years. It is regrettable that the angry was channeled at a specific person but BioWare have to admit they have a part to play here. You can't start a fire without a spark.

I respectfully disagree on both accounts.

If anything, many players attribute many of the flaws in recent games to listening too much to the vocal minority. And that often many rather scathing threads are left open when the issue has already been addressed in final terms.

The majority of feedback on these boards is often knee-jerk responces and done without consiteration of tact. In sort, they're written very poorly, even if some points are valid. 

Conduct in many internet forms of late has been unacceptably poor in my opinion, and I feel as if the boards are far too lenient in moderation inforcement. Feedback can be received without such childish hatred and poor conduct.