1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Dirtyjuice]

[becoming off-topic, and your views on homosexuality are unpopular and incorrect]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 février 2012 - 01:10 .

[WhiteKnyght]

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

Kami102 wrote...

Who says that a writer of a game has to love to play video games?

Ms. Helper is a writer. She has no interaction with how the game itself is designed, she just writes the storyline, the characters, or whatever Bioware wants her to. So why is the community in such a rage when she says that she doesn't like video games? Show me where it says that a writer of a video game absolutely must enjoy playing video games.

Every video game needs a writer. Hypothetically, if J.R.R. Tolkien was still alive, and said he was working as a writer for a story to help shape a Lord of the Rings video game, I'd imagine that the millions of Tolkien's fans would be ecstatic. But then he says that he doesn't like to play video games. So what? I don't think any of Tokien's fans would be outraged if he would say that.

If that's a terrible analogy, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to throw a point out there, as most of the community seems to be enraged that she doesn't like to play video games and that she'd like to skip combat, which makes sense when she says that because she is a writer.

Writers can not like games and still write for them, I fully agree. The point is, Bioware's writing is... well... Getting worse. When I played through the demo of Mass Effect 3 I cringed because they picked killing a child as their way of making the game have depth in its prologue... It's picking off the bottom of the barrel.

I liked the Demo of Mass Effect 3.

The thing with the child really sells the fact that Shepard wont be able to save everyone this time.

The Reapers are ruthless and merciless, and will kill everything that lives with advanced technology. Men, women, children, elderly, the sick, and those who don't die will spend the rest of their lives as indoctrinated husks, genetically altered slaves like the Collectors, or be used as material to create more Reapers.

[AtreiyaN7]

StyxxnStones wrote...

I will whole-hardheartedly agree that the comments and threats directed at Jennifer Hepler were asinine, idiotic, and childish. But remember who you are dealing with, this is the masses of the internet, a majority of these users are underage simpletons anyway. I wouldn't really expect a formal and polite rebuttal from someone who frequents reddit.

Jennifer Hepler, however, is an adult, and works for a professional company. She IS expected to be mature and polite, because not only is she an adult, but also because she represents a very important company. Saying things like "I don't even enjoy video games" while working for a video game company is rather unprofessional. If she were in my employ, I would have been very embarrassed that such things were said by one of my employees. Bringing up your gender as an argument to critics and trolls (even arguing with internet trolls in the first place) is also very unprofessional and childish.

I don't condone the harsh treatment and abuse of her as of late, but neither side is completely in the right.

Saying you don't enjoy playing games while working for a video game company is NOT unprofessional - it's a personal opinion that has no relation to her job performance (writing).

[Blacklash93]

Sarrawei wrote...

When people defend their opinion of a game by citing bugs that don't exist and dialogues that don't happen, you have to think that despite their assertions, there is a different underlying motivator.

DA2 had plenty of problems. It doesn't take some ulterior motivator to see that.

[Bladefist_01]

QuentinCompson wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...
Being a consumer of Biowares games, and a fan of Bioware's previous titles, I have a right to voice my opinion of what I didn't like about the game, and what might'be made it better. It's not that I don't like Bioware, I want to see it become something better and maybe criticism from the fans may provide feedback in a positive way.

I don't have to be a professional to say what I think.

Just because you have the right doesn't mean you should voice it.

Uh, yes, yes it does.

[CG50]

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

QuentinCompson wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...

Writers can not like games and still write for them, I fully agree. The point is, Bioware's writing is... well... Getting worse. When I played through the demo of Mass Effect 3 I cringed because they picked killing a child as their way of making the game have depth in its prologue... It's picking off the bottom of the barrel.

Who are you to say the writing is getting bad?

Are you a professional critic?

No?

Then what gives you authority??? 

Being a consumer of Biowares games, and a fan of Bioware's previous titles, I have a right to voice my opinion of what I didn't like about the game, and what might'be made it better. It's not that I don't like Bioware, I want to see it become something better and maybe criticism from the fans may provide feedback in a positive way.

I don't have to be a professional to say what I think.

 *resist south park respect authoritah quote* 

Seriously though, thats ConcernedPeanut's opinion of the writing and it was expressed as an opinion, not like others who bash or troll. I disagree with the opinion but then again, that's just my opinion. 

It's very opinionated. 

Modifié par CG50, 22 février 2012 - 01:07 .

[Sarrawei]

[Do not engage.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 février 2012 - 01:12 .

[StyxxnStones]

QuentinCompson wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...
Being a consumer of Biowares games, and a fan of Bioware's previous titles, I have a right to voice my opinion of what I didn't like about the game, and what might'be made it better. It's not that I don't like Bioware, I want to see it become something better and maybe criticism from the fans may provide feedback in a positive way.

I don't have to be a professional to say what I think.

Just because you have the right doesn't mean you should voice it.

I have the right to bear arms for self defense, doesn't mean I go walking around in public with a gun rack.

Thoreau would disagree on this point. Everyone should be encouraged to voice their opinion, positive or negative, as that is the essence of individualism and freedom.

[Blacklash93]

[Do not engage.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 février 2012 - 01:12 .

[QuentinCompson]

Bladefist_01 wrote...

QuentinCompson wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...
Being a consumer of Biowares games, and a fan of Bioware's previous titles, I have a right to voice my opinion of what I didn't like about the game, and what might'be made it better. It's not that I don't like Bioware, I want to see it become something better and maybe criticism from the fans may provide feedback in a positive way.

I don't have to be a professional to say what I think.

Just because you have the right doesn't mean you should voice it.

Uh, yes, yes it does.

No no it doesn't.

Listen kid I'm in my school's mock trial program. I scored a 1720 on my PSAT. I know a thing or two about the law. 

[cogsandcurls]

I generally stay away from BSN because there are places for me to discuss the games I love in an atmosphere that's less vitriolic and more tolerant than what I tend to see over here. HOWEVER. I felt compelled to come and post here and say a few things, since this has got so much coverage it's spilled into the fanspaces I do frequent.

First: I personally love Jennifer's work and feel that the Dragon Age world in particular is stronger for it. I might have problems with Anders re: his actions and opinions, but as a character I think he's fantastically written - and the fact that I care so much about his character arc is very evidence of the writing I so enjoyed. (Plus, hooray for dwarves!) So although this week has been dominated by nastiness, know that there are lots of fans out there.

Second: Saddened but not suprised by all the victim-blaming going on in this thread. Not liking somebody's work is one thing. Harassing them and going out of your way to attack them personally because you took against their work is another, and is NEVER OKAY. (Also depressing is the amount of seemingly intentional misinformation being spread regarding falsified posts, Jennifer being blamed for alleged problems with projects she never worked on etc).

Third: Wonderful response, Bioware, the donation in particular is a lovely touch. Thank you for not only supporting valued employees (which I'm sure is a given) but also doing it loudly and publically. It really does make a difference.

[QuentinCompson]

StyxxnStones wrote...

QuentinCompson wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...
Being a consumer of Biowares games, and a fan of Bioware's previous titles, I have a right to voice my opinion of what I didn't like about the game, and what might'be made it better. It's not that I don't like Bioware, I want to see it become something better and maybe criticism from the fans may provide feedback in a positive way.

I don't have to be a professional to say what I think.

Just because you have the right doesn't mean you should voice it.

I have the right to bear arms for self defense, doesn't mean I go walking around in public with a gun rack.

Thoreau would disagree on this point. Everyone should be encouraged to voice their opinion, positive or negative, as that is the essence of individualism and freedom.

Thoreau could disagree all he wants.

Maybe that's why no one reads his works.

[Sarrawei]

[No, seriously, stop it.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 février 2012 - 01:13 .

[didhedie]

[And now it's off-topic.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 février 2012 - 01:14 .

[WhiteKnyght]

ColdRiver wrote...

How does a grown woman get bullied? Grow a back bone Hepler.

Quite easily. All it takes is enough ignorant people, like you. And add in the fact that she's too nice to take it and give it right back.

[StyxxnStones]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

StyxxnStones wrote...

I will whole-hardheartedly agree that the comments and threats directed at Jennifer Hepler were asinine, idiotic, and childish. But remember who you are dealing with, this is the masses of the internet, a majority of these users are underage simpletons anyway. I wouldn't really expect a formal and polite rebuttal from someone who frequents reddit.

Jennifer Hepler, however, is an adult, and works for a professional company. She IS expected to be mature and polite, because not only is she an adult, but also because she represents a very important company. Saying things like "I don't even enjoy video games" while working for a video game company is rather unprofessional. If she were in my employ, I would have been very embarrassed that such things were said by one of my employees. Bringing up your gender as an argument to critics and trolls (even arguing with internet trolls in the first place) is also very unprofessional and childish.

I don't condone the harsh treatment and abuse of her as of late, but neither side is completely in the right.

Saying you don't enjoy playing games while working for a video game company is NOT unprofessional - it's a personal opinion that has no relation to her job performance (writing).

I understand opinions, thank you. But I think you missed a critical point. I don't personally care how she feels about video games, I am glad she has an opinion actually. But she works for a video game company, and public stated her controversial opinion. That is unprofessional. If I worked for a sofa company, I would not state in an interview that I hated couches. I would keep my opinion to myself because I would know that I represent my company and wouldn't want to paint it in a bad light.

What does it say to the public about Bioware if their own employees aren't even video game fans?

[ScottishMartialArts]

Sarrawei wrote...

Just like I've never seen a critique of DA/DA2's romances that didn't boil down to sexism and homophobia,

I donno, the complaints have all generally centered around the idea that the romances in Dragon Age, and in Bioware Games in general, play like bad fan fiction. They simply aren't very romantic.

Look I understand most gamers don't read much outside of genre fiction -- they're too busy playing games -- and therefore don't have a very good frame of reference when it comes to judging writing, but there are some fairly objective criteria on which you can judge a work of fiction. Critics disagree all the time of course, but measures such as narrative economy, the extent to which a story is interested in theme versus plot, richness of imagery, pacing, etc. are at least somewhat objective, and by most of those standards, Bioware's writing falls flat. For example, I've never seen professional writers as reluctant to write with verbs as Karpyshyn and Gaider. Likewise, would it kill Bioware's writers to use dialogue as a vehicle for exposition only sparingly? And could Bioware please stop confusing trite psychological problems for character depth? I'd honestly love to see a Sophoclean hero -- brought down by his own virtue -- in one of Bioware's games for once, rather than the whiny pretty boys with daddy issues that populate their stories.

I could go on, but the point is that there are legitimate criticisms of Bioware's writing that don't rely on sexism or homophobia. But now that Bioware has turned Hepler into a martyr, they've effectively shut down any criticism of their writing practices. It's truly unfortunate.

Modifié par ScottishMartialArts, 22 février 2012 - 01:14 .

[Kozality]

Thank you BioWare for seeing the real issue here: bullying. If you disagree with someone have a statement not an insult.

[StyxxnStones]

QuentinCompson wrote...

StyxxnStones wrote...

QuentinCompson wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...
Being a consumer of Biowares games, and a fan of Bioware's previous titles, I have a right to voice my opinion of what I didn't like about the game, and what might'be made it better. It's not that I don't like Bioware, I want to see it become something better and maybe criticism from the fans may provide feedback in a positive way.

I don't have to be a professional to say what I think.

Just because you have the right doesn't mean you should voice it.

I have the right to bear arms for self defense, doesn't mean I go walking around in public with a gun rack.

Thoreau would disagree on this point. Everyone should be encouraged to voice their opinion, positive or negative, as that is the essence of individualism and freedom.

Thoreau could disagree all he wants.

Maybe that's why no one reads his works.

Ad hominem, but nice try. It doesn't refute the point that voicing one's opinion is important and should be encouraged.

[ConcernedPeanut]

QuentinCompson wrote...

ConcernedPeanut wrote...
Being a consumer of Biowares games, and a fan of Bioware's previous titles, I have a right to voice my opinion of what I didn't like about the game, and what might'be made it better. It's not that I don't like Bioware, I want to see it become something better and maybe criticism from the fans may provide feedback in a positive way.

I don't have to be a professional to say what I think.

Just because you have the right doesn't mean you should voice it.

I have the right to bear arms for self defense, doesn't mean I go walking around in public with a gun rack.

You have every right to dislike my opinion. That fact of the matter is, your simply saying I should not voice it. What I would like you to do, instead of simply telling me to "shut up" but being eloquent about it, you should probably come up with counterpoints and build an argument against me. I could be inclined to agree. Your pretty much creating a bias for yourself as being anti-critisism and "Stop saying bad things about Bioware!"

[Blacklash93]

Ignore Dirtyjuice, people, and let's get back on topic.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 22 février 2012 - 01:12 .

[A Fusing Shade]

Sarrawei wrote...

A Fusing Shade wrote...

Sarrawei wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Sarrawei wrote...
It's interesting how the "decline of Bioware" seems to correlate quite well with Bioware games expending effort and welcoming risk in the attempt to be more inclusive to individuals who are often sidelined by popular media.

That's the same mentality that says "DA2 sucked because all LI's were bi." which is flat-out wrong.

Sorry, I was unclear. I do not believe Bioware is declining at all, I meant my quotes to indicate sarcasm. I mean people keep saying that the games are "worse" when they stop pandering to comfortable, mainstream values. The games are in no way getting worse (except for EA's ridiculous development cycle, which is not under Bioware's power to change). 

Please do not play on the idea that the reason behind people disliking DA2 was due to homophobia. While some may have had an issue with it, I do not think it is fair to say it is a problem with the majority of those whom had any dislike for DA2.

When people defend their opinion of a game by citing bugs that don't exist and dialogues that don't happen, you have to think that despite their assertions, there is a different underlying motivator.

Also it's hilarious to see people talking about how "unrealistic" the demographics are in a fantasy game that takes place in another universe with different races and dragons flying all around the place. Sure, I can accept someone shooting fire out of his hands, but four bisexuals? You're mad! Mad, I tell you!

DA2 was known to have bugs, as does any game. To say that people are making up bugs simply to complain, I cannot comment on as I have yet to see it, personally. Nor can I see how this action relates to homophobia, assuming that is what you meant by "underlying motivator." 

I do not think it fair to dismiss any claims of criticism on a characters sudden or suprising orientation change/reveal as homophobic. It may way very well be that people do not have a problem with homophobia but, have a problem with the method used to include and appeal to wider orientations when it means that a familiar character has a rapid change of heart.

I feel that a lot of users of this forum like to promote the idea of being open-minded and this above those who dislike a Bioware game as, clearly, their complaints are due to their own narrow-minded, mainstream-wired brains! To even say that mainstream audiences are uncomfortable with homophobia, in this day and age, is outrightly incorrect, in my opinion.<3
Almost ironic when they preach about having open arms and minds, yet, refuse to see someone elses points as anything other than an attack at gender or sex.

[Sarrawei]

You know, Bioware really should give supporters the opportunity to put their money where their mouths are. There's a lot more support out there than I think the Bioware staff realizes. A lot of people are just put off by the immensely bitter atmosphere of BSN proper. If you give us the opportunity, you'll see how much we appreciate your work. Heck, make a cake fund so we can give everyone working there a slice of sweet gratitude.

[ScottishMartialArts]

double post my bad

Modifié par ScottishMartialArts, 22 février 2012 - 01:13 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Bladefist_01 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We can (and should be able to) disagree with each other without resorting to childish behaviour.

You cannot seriously be writing this, after this is exactly what your employees have displayed?

I am not stating that Jennifer Hepler was obnoxious, but if someone is obnoxious then it does not give others the right to do the same. But of course you know that. You just like to stir up the place, right?