1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Big Papa Gall]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 février 2012 - 03:05 .

[Woofy128]

As if I needed yet another reason to loathe the subhuman filth on 4chan and the other anti-BioWare troll sites. This whole revolting affair, and similar ones perpetrated against BioWare by the same gang of internet delinquents is exactly why I'm ashamed to tell people I play video games. Offering my support to Ms. Hepler and other BW employees targeted in future harassment campaigns, for what that's worth.

[Reptilian Rob]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Throw_Rug wrote...
I do, however, think its sometimes appropriate to voice criticism of the opinions of people who make video games. Otherwise they would not have any opportunity to improve their work or stay in touch with the people they make games for. If all we did was to tell them that they were excellent in every way, nothing would ever get better.

It is absolutely appropriate to voice criticism of game developers. it's one of the reasons we have open forums here in the BioWare Social Network. 

Your coolness rating just went up a thousand fold in my book. 

[BanksHector]

Wow. I just read the story about this, and it is crazy what happen. Jennifer Hepler is awesome!

Modifié par BanksHector, 22 février 2012 - 03:01 .

[A Fusing Shade]

Woofy128 wrote...

As if I needed yet another reason to loathe the subhuman filth on 4chan and the other anti-BioWare troll sites. This whole revolting affair, and similar ones perpetrated against BioWare by the same gang of internet delinquents is exactly why I'm ashamed to tell people I play video games. Offering my support to Ms. Hepler and other BW employees targeted in future harassment campaigns, for what that's worth.

This is a terrible case of "Them VS Us".

[ScottishMartialArts]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

And your post proves what? That you're going to ignore everyone else (me included) who thinks people should behave with a reasonable amount of decorum and rationality when they post? 

Again, you're the one saying people should be ignored, not me.

Regardless, we seem to be talking past each other. My issue was with the general claim that its okay to ignore someone you don't respect, not with the idea that 99% of what was said to Hepler didn't have any value. With regards to the general claim, many people don't respect the other side in politics: does that mean the right is under no obligation to listen to what the left has to say, and vice-versa? It's hard to have a democracy if so. The natural human tendency is to take a dislike to your rhetorical opponent -- for example, I can tell from your tone that you don't like me -- but just because you dislike someone doesn't mean you should stop listening to what they have to say. If you do, you may miss out on a good debate that brings you closer to the truth.

Modifié par ScottishMartialArts, 22 février 2012 - 03:03 .

[Tommy6860]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Her twitter. It got taken down now but the statement was there.

Really? Wow. Now that is clearly unprofessional if she actually said that. There's no excuse for saying that anyone who dislikes her writing is just sexist and homophobic.

Dave of Canada wrote...

The comment is being overblown, it was her saying that the people were attacking her because she has a vagina and she has a job in the game's industry and they'd get neither.

If that's the same comment Costin is referring to, then I remember reading that comment in an article the other day and talked about in this thread about a dozen or so pages ago.

The problem, is that the timeline of the events, has placed what was stated, as from the whole event, competely out of context. Jen clearly made her remark long after the barrage of personal attacks. I am no way defending it, but I can understand it. In the end, I think there may be some regrets from a few of the folks involved in the whole thing.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 22 février 2012 - 03:01 .

[XX55XX]

Ladies and gentlemen, I suggest we put forth our differences and acknowledge that whatever we think of BioWare, regardless of whether they have sold out to EA or casualized their games beyond all recognition as bona fide video games, we cannot allow name calling and verbal threats to become part of our discourse. I think that was what this thread was really about.

[bsphil]

But just what can Bioware do to appease these people?

Stop the censorship of BioWare forums and be more open to discussion with people who happen to not like the game?  That'd go pretty far in terms of smoothing things over.  Censoring whatever you don't want to hear results in turning a distraught fan into an angry former customer.

Seriously.  Be proactive, not reactive.  They need to earnestly want to take in good and bad opinions, and understand that both are valid positions to take.

[Darkon_X]

She has a vagina

[Tommy6860]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

bsphil wrote...

Posting on Twitter is not a reflex.  No matter what, you can take the time to compose yourself.  A GM of a regional Bioware office ought to know better than to post reactively on a public account.  It's just as indefensible. 

You know what I think? I think his response was both human and welcome, even defensible despite it not being the greatest idea. Why? Because it shows loyalty to a fellow company employee and support for her against people who put the worst side of human behavior on public display for everyone to see.

EDIT: And I might have told that tool who made the cancer comment to <bleep> off too if I'd been in Flynn's position.

Your edit gets my response:

In no way is it acceptable. I understand the defensible part, but other words could have been used. While it may have been human and I relate to that, I wouldn't call it welcome. There are better means for a person to have shown support, one of them is not engaging in ad hominem and personal attacks.

[Jymm]

Sometimes I fool myself into thinking the gaming industry and community are maturing. Then something like this incident comes along to remind me that everything moves in fits and starts. Sigh. Kudos to BW for defending their employee. Whatever legit disagreement anyone might have had with Jennifer or Bioware, now nobody sane will want to go near it. So all that rage solves nothing.

I'm crossing my forums now, but maybe the Reapers _should_ wipe us Humans out.

[Bladefist_01]

Woofy128 wrote...

As if I needed yet another reason to loathe the subhuman filth on 4chan and the other anti-BioWare troll sites. This whole revolting affair, and similar ones perpetrated against BioWare by the same gang of internet delinquents is exactly why I'm ashamed to tell people I play video games. Offering my support to Ms. Hepler and other BW employees targeted in future harassment campaigns, for what that's worth.

I heard that Reddit was behind all this, I know 4chan is probably just watching this unfold and laughing. Everyone knows 4chan is too lazy to do anything.

[XX55XX]

Jymm wrote...

Sometimes I fool myself into thinking the gaming industry and community are maturing. Then something like this incident comes along to remind me that everything moves in fits and starts. Sigh. Kudos to BW for defending their employee. Whatever legit disagreement anyone might have had with Jennifer or Bioware, now nobody sane will want to go near it. So all that rage solves nothing.

I'm crossing my forums now, but maybe the Reapers _should_ wipe us Humans out.

People have been trolling since the BBS days of the 1980s, you know? It's not that people are inherently immature, it's because anonymity offers a level of empowerment that encourages people to be immature. 

[Costin_Razvan]

People have throwing insults and trashing each other verbally since the dawn of time. It's nothing new really and most certainly not just exclusive to gaming or the internet.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 février 2012 - 03:10 .

[TooManyFreakingAccts]

This whole misadventure was as stupid and senseless as Jennifer's original tweet.

I do not relish the idea of Jennifer being upset or hurt just the same way I do not relish anyone's misery. Equally I do not relish the idea of BioWare rallying around her or ensuring that she remains there for years to come.  For me, the loss is twofold. 

I wish her best of luck, but now that there is virtually no hope of her leaving BioWare to pursue other projects, I hope that her future efforts are much better than what she has presented thusfar.

Modifié par TooManyFreakingAccts, 22 février 2012 - 03:11 .

[Blastback]

ScottishMartialArts wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

And your post proves what? That you're going to ignore everyone else (me included) who thinks people should behave with a reasonable amount of decorum and rationality when they post? 

Again, you're the one saying people should be ignored, not me.

Regardless, we seem to be talking past each other. My issue was with the general claim that its okay to ignore someone you don't respect, not with the idea that 99% of what was said to Hepler didn't have any value. With regards to the general claim, many people don't respect the other side in politics: does that mean the right is under no obligation to listen to what the left has to say, and vice-versa? It's hard to have a democracy if so. The natural human tendency is to take a dislike to your rhetorical opponent -- for example, I can tell from your tone that you don't like me -- but just because you dislike someone doesn't mean you should stop listening to what they have to say. If you do, you may miss out on a good debate that brings you closer to the truth.

But this is a video game.  There is no reason to not be respectful when offering critisism.  Bioware has alwayes listened to those of us with disenting voices.  Do they come to the conclusions we want, no, not always.  But they are willing to listen to your ideas, as long as you treat them with respect.

[Dynamok]

Apparently reddit got out of hand, terrible way to go. My regards go out to Hepler, I hope she feels better soon.

[TwistedComplex]

Want me to rub your tummy? Need a hug?

ARE THE E-TROLLS GETTIN' YOU DOWN?!?!

[Most Definitely Sane]

I know what I have to say has already been said, but I am going to go ahead and say it anyway.

For Jennifer Hepler:
Love or hate your writing, you do not compare in the least to a single thing that those people called you on Twitter. You are a beautiful human being that is doing what she loves, and you deserve the happiness it gives you. I hope that you see how much people on these forums respect you and support you through all of this.

For Bioware:
You guys can't make everyone happy. We know that. You know that. But you try, always. And that is why your fans love you(besides your skill in making games). You don't get told this enough, but your fans care for all of you. Don't ever doubt that.

I can only hope you all see this post.

Modifié par Most Definitely Sane, 22 février 2012 - 03:13 .

[bsphil]

Woofy128 wrote...

As if I needed yet another reason to loathe the subhuman filth on 4chan and the other anti-BioWare troll sites. This whole revolting affair, and similar ones perpetrated against BioWare by the same gang of internet delinquents is exactly why I'm ashamed to tell people I play video games. Offering my support to Ms. Hepler and other BW employees targeted in future harassment campaigns, for what that's worth.

4chan has disliked BioWare in general for a while now, but this last week or so has largely been a Reddit-fueled issue, starting back with her AMA on /r/gaming.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ScottishMartialArts wrote...

My issue was with the general claim that its okay to ignore someone you don't respect, not with the idea that 99% of what was said to Hepler didn't have any value. With regards to the general claim, many people don't respect the other side in politics: does that mean the right is under no obligation to listen to what the left has to say, and vice-versa? It's hard to have a democracy if so. The natural human tendency is to take a dislike to your rhetorical opponent -- for example, I can tell from your tone that you don't like me -- but just because you dislike someone doesn't mean you should stop listening to what they have to say. If you do, you may miss out on a good debate that brings you closer to the truth.

Not many people are willing to scrape through a pile of monkey poo that's just been thrown in their faces to find those 2 shiny cents hidden within.

If you are, then huzzah. The majority will simply go wash their faces and try to avoid being crapped on again, no matter how many gems of wisdom are hidden in the excrement.

Ignoring someone you don't respect is different from ignoring someone hurling unconstructive abuse at you, especially when the attacker has absolutely no interest in a good debate.

[ToGVita]

Many, many thanks to Chris, John, and Stanley for keeping this thread open and well moderated. I really appreciate the opportunity to support Jennifer, Aaryn and the team at Bioware.

Virtual beers heading in your direction - and apologies they are not real ones!

[AtreiyaN7]

ScottishMartialArts wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

And your post proves what? That you're going to ignore everyone else (me included) who thinks people should behave with a reasonable amount of decorum and rationality when they post? 

Again, you're the one saying people should be ignored, not me.

Regardless, we seem to be talking past each other. My issue was with the general claim that its okay to ignore someone you don't respect, not with the idea that 99% of what was said to Hepler didn't have any value. With regards to the general claim, many people don't respect the other side in politics: does that mean the right is under no obligation to listen to what the left has to say, and vice-versa? It's hard to have a democracy if so. The natural human tendency is to take a dislike to your rhetorical opponent -- for example, I can tell from your tone that you don't like me -- but just because you dislike someone doesn't mean you should stop listening to what they have to say. If you do, you may miss out on a good debate that brings you closer to the truth.

I guess I'm breaking my vow to ignore you. Wrong - I never said that people should be ignored. I said that we are NOT OBLIGATED to listen to them if we don't respect an individual - like in situations where people resort to using hateful speech and bullying others to try to get their points across. They're certainly free to continue posting in that manner if they want, but they shouldn't expect reasonable, sane people to want to devote their time to their rants.

You can keep trying to twist what I say in whichever way you want (and failing at it), but it will change nothing. Having someone's respect isn't something you get by default, No, I don't like you and am fine with flat-out saying that I don't like you. If you want further details, my respect level for you is currently hovering close to zero right now, but I'm not calling you names or going for extremely low blows while challenging you. Now go away and argue with someone else who wants to argue with you. I've got a raid in three hours and would like to take a lengthy break from this unpleasant place - possibly including a shower to wash off the filth I feel covered in.