1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Azaradi123]

Edit: Post removed, back on topic.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 22 février 2012 - 04:33 .

[giantMIDGET427]

I heard about what happened to Jennifer today on a gamespot article and I was beyond disgusted with the gaming community that until that I was proud to be part of. I cant believe that happened and I wish there was some way to make up for all the abuse those people did to her. I would love to have an option that allows me to skip the combat and focus more on the story or the narrative. I think she is brilliance and games should start doing that.

[Imported_beer]

Azaradi123 wrote...


Again, it is hypocritical to support an employee against "bullying" when that employee and other senior staff have also engaged in bullying during the same incident.  

Not really.

I think when a person thinks a couple of insults on twitter is as bad of months of sustained harrassment, including death threats, and threatening calls made to their house, I would doubt the rationality of such arguments.

You actually claimed that she should have engaged in a productive dialogue with someone who told her to kill herself.

I also refuted each one of your "meets the definition" claims, complete with legal precedent so I am sad they were deleted. But when someone can claim death threats and a snarky retaliation are the very same thing, the prospects of a rational discussion just went downhill. And so, I am glad they did delete them. No point discussing this with someone whose very concepts of equality are so...different from mine.


See, I was ON TOPIC!

Modifié par Imported_beer, 22 février 2012 - 04:40 .

[BellaStrega]

thatguy212 wrote...
I was bullied all the time, i was the guy that would get basket balls thrown at my head when i wasn't looking, it sucks sure but i didn't let it get to me, and these are people on the internet that are insulting them, who cares what some losers like them think? stooping to their level just makes Aaryn Flynn and bioware look bad

No, it doesn't. I've been in a position similar to Flynn's in the past and I didn't buy this argument then. It's self-serving and reeks of "how dare they not kowtow to abusive crap?"

Some people have a really twisted and entitled attitude about how they're allowed to treat others, and seem to have a similarly entitled attitude that they're allowed to dish out abuse but never ever ever be called out on it because ~professionalism~.

Flynn's definitely not lowered himself to their level. It would take serious work for him to actually sink that low.

[Lux]

Pretty good article on the subject at hand: The Dangers of Gamer Entitlement.

That level of verbal bullying would get to anyone's raw nerve. Best wishes to Ms. Hepler who had the "gall" to think differently.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I was one of the first people who stumbled across the trouble on Twitter. Suffice to say, it quite literally made me sick in the stomach.

I'm glad to see BioWare is well aware. The amount of personal insults directed at Jennifer was nothing short of overwhelming.

[Yuoaman]

Glad to see you guys supporting your employees, it was ridiculous what happened.

[Imported_beer]

BellaStrega wrote...
No, it doesn't. I've been in a position similar to Flynn's in the past and I didn't buy this argument then. It's self-serving and reeks of "how dare they not kowtow to abusive crap?"

Some people have a really twisted and entitled attitude about how they're allowed to treat others, and seem to have a similarly entitled attitude that they're allowed to dish out abuse but never ever ever be called out on it because ~professionalism~.

Flynn's definitely not lowered himself to their level. It would take serious work for him to actually sink that low.

Well said. There is also the post made earlier by someone else that silence often means acceptance.

Jennifer kept quiet for months. Did it stop? No. She retaliated. Did it stop? No.

The fallacy that trolls need to be fed to thrive is a fallacy. Most manage to exist just fine whether ignored or not, out of sheer spite.

Modifié par Imported_beer, 22 février 2012 - 04:37 .

[Enduance XXVII]

People are actually defending her and Flynn's statements. My word.

[BellaStrega]

Azaradi123 wrote...

Why is it only bullying when fans do it?

Instead of responding to criticism in a productive manner to open dialogue and maybe change minds- BioWare employee Hepler insulted critical fans by calling them unemployed virgins. That is bullying.

Those fans weren't being critical, productive, nor was their commentary inviting open dialogue. Did you perhaps read what they were writing?

If you did not, perhaps you should. If you did, then you're just being disingenuous here.

Instead of responding to criticism in a productive manner to open dialogue and maybe change minds- BioWare employee Flynn told a critical fan to perform a sexual act on himself. That is bullying.

He didn't respond to criticism. You and anyone else can read the ~criticism~ in question. Said person's tweeting included such critical gems as " I have both and still think you're a terrible writer. I'd be happier if you got replaced by Stephenie Meyer."

I certainly hope the $1000 donated came out of these two employees' paychecks. They are just as guilty as the fans. Set the example- fans have nothing to lose by voicing their opinions. But your company's reputation is tarnished by being brazenly hypocritical for allowing your own employees to bully fans while complaining about the inverse.

Actually, I am heartened by the fact that the statement that started this thread was made, and I am glad that Bioware doesn't simply sit back and passively tolerate bullying and harassment directed at their employees.

What is sad is how many people focus almost exclusively on how Bioware employees behaved in response to extreme provocation.

[syllogi]

http://en.wikipedia..../Victim_blaming

For those who need to educate themselves before posting.

[Imported_beer]

Enduance XXVII wrote...

People are actually defending her and Flynn's statements. My word.

So you are another of those folks who  think that a couple of insults is as bad/ even worse than months of death threats and calling someone at their house?

Nice to know.

There is a difference between defending, and claiming those two are not at the same "level" of nasty. But hey, your word, dude. Your Word.

[BellaStrega]

Enduance XXVII wrote...

People are actually defending her and Flynn's statements. My word.

I've been in a nearly identical (but not nearly as high profile) situation, and having been on the receiving end of fannish harassment over perceived injustices because a game wasn't designed according to their personal wishes, I have nothing but sympathy for both Jennifer's and Aaryn's responses after months of provocative and hostile bullying commentary.

[Enduance XXVII]

BellaStrega wrote...

Enduance XXVII wrote...

People are actually defending her and Flynn's statements. My word.

I've been in a nearly identical (but not nearly as high profile) situation, and having been on the receiving end of fannish harassment over perceived injustices because a game wasn't designed according to their personal wishes, I have nothing but sympathy for both Jennifer's and Aaryn's responses after months of provocative and hostile bullying commentary.

Why can't they just ignore it. Gabe, Kotick, etc. have had insults thrown at them all the time. I don't see them lashing out over trolls

[subtlyiskey]

Everybody seems to have their own unique opinion on this matter. No one party is to blame. Don't forget that both parties have felt pain. Obviously we can stand to learn something from this. For instance, I feel like this is a chance for Bioware to reconnect with the online community. Let's start by addressing fans concerns. Instances of company/community bonding have proven to work quite well. Now is the perfect opportunity to do so. Everyone should try to include themselves in the process. ________________________________________________________

[wangxiuming]

Merkar wrote...

Pretty good article on the subject at hand: The Dangers of Gamer Entitlement.

That level of verbal bullying would get to anyone's raw nerve. Best wishes to Ms. Hepler who had the "gall" to think differently.

Great article, and awesome to see Bioware stands by its employees.

[BellaStrega]

Enduance XXVII wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...

Enduance XXVII wrote...

People are actually defending her and Flynn's statements. My word.

I've been in a nearly identical (but not nearly as high profile) situation, and having been on the receiving end of fannish harassment over perceived injustices because a game wasn't designed according to their personal wishes, I have nothing but sympathy for both Jennifer's and Aaryn's responses after months of provocative and hostile bullying commentary.

Why can't they just ignore it. Gabe, Kotick, etc. have had insults thrown at them all the time. I don't see them lashing out over trolls

Why should they ignore it?

Why aren't you ignoring them? Why are you so focused on their behavior in making a handful of negative comments in response to months of bullying? Why are you so focused on how the target of bullying reacts instead of the bullying itself? 

[Morroian]

Enduance XXVII wrote...

Why can't they just ignore it. Gabe, Kotick, etc. have had insults thrown at them all the time. I don't see them lashing out over trolls

The attacks haven't just been online. Has Gabe Newell had people harrass him in public?

[AtreiyaN7]

ScottishMartialArts wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I've repeatedly pointed out that it wasn't a great idea, but I also recognize that they're only human. And I don't think that saying <bleep> off to someone is an ad hominem or much of a personal attack - it's an angry emotional response and one that certainly seems warranted given the threats made against Hepler. Like I basically said, I don't care how unprofessional it was, in a similar situation, I'd be telling those people to <bleep> off.

See? We're in agreement that tough talk is sometimes necessary.

Dear God, we're not and never will be. There's a difference between defending someone against bullying and people who are bullies. I knew I should have avoided this thread, but I had to satisfy my curiosity after dinner.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 22 février 2012 - 05:22 .

[Enduance XXVII]

BellaStrega wrote...

Why should they ignore it?

Why aren't you ignoring them? Why are you so focused on their behavior in making a handful of negative comments in response to months of bullying? Why are you so focused on how the target of bullying reacts instead of the bullying itself? 

Because when you work at a company, you are held to a higher standard.

[Morroian]

subtlyiskey wrote...

Everybody seems to have their own unique opinion on this matter. No one party is to blame. Don't forget that both parties have felt pain.

What pain have the harrassing parties felt? The pain of disliking a Bioware game? ......... My heart bleeds. 

[Xanatos Chimera]

I said this earlier, and I'll say it again: Jennifer's sardonic snark on Twitter was restrained compared to what was being dished out. Her comment and its implied reference to a common stereotype was pretty funny as well. Polemics in 140 characters or less.

I have done the same as Aaryn Flynn did when a friend was being harassed. When one has engaged in character assassination and psychological abuse, one has no leg to stand on to complain or claim bullying when told "whatever, bleeping moron". That is not bullying. That's blowing your lid because you're watching a colleague or friend be mercilessly attacked.

One should not engage in trolling if one cannot deal with return-fire snark and epithets.

The original comments do not warrant the blatant lies of the doctored screenshot that was posted. Jennifer's idea is not new to games either as both Master of Orion 2 and Heroes of Might & Magic III both provide the option of auto-resolving combat, and allowing the player to focus on unit-building, diplomacy, espionage and resource gathering as they wish.

Some sources:
Found on the Wayback Machine: the 2nd-4th pages of the original interview: http://web.archive.o...hepler?page=0,2

This article also gives the relevant quotes as they originally appeared (they jive with the Wayback Machine pages I found): http://www.themarysu...y-is-all-about/

Modifié par Xanatos Chimera, 22 février 2012 - 05:02 .

[BellaStrega]

Enduance XXVII wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...

Why should they ignore it?

Why aren't you ignoring them? Why are you so focused on their behavior in making a handful of negative comments in response to months of bullying? Why are you so focused on how the target of bullying reacts instead of the bullying itself? 

Because when you work at a company, you are held to a higher standard.

This is a disingenuous assertion. The responses are nowhere near the same level of vitriol as the attacks themselves. I already explained why the "professionalism" argument is rubbish in an earlier post, either on page 40 or 41. Go back and read it.

[Raveneer]

We're human. We make mistakes. I've loved Bioware's games since Baldur's Gate and continue to love them. The gang up north has my respect. I am glad to see the company doing their best to support someone who's been hurt. Jennifer, my hat's off to you and yours.

[Anarya]

Enduance XXVII wrote...

People are actually defending her and Flynn's statements. My word.

And other people are using them as justification for the abuse being hurled at Hepler and Bioware. Stop victim blaming. 

I think both those tweets were ill-advised but it's irrelevant. It does not make the bullying ok, justified or deserved.