1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Zhijn]

Uh, why are these individuals so angry? From what i can gather she is a writer not a game designer, so she would have nothing to do with any actually gameplay?. Not that it matters anyway since there is no excuse for any of this.

Anyway, dont stop writing. I still like EaWares/yours stories. =)

[bluewolv1970]

I think a consumer has every right to be critical of the quality of any product, but, NEVER has the right to attack someone personally. Unfortunately the internet is an easy medium to spread hate anonymously.

[Aggie Punbot]

Paaaaage 42!

Also: what is so ahrd to understand about decent behavior? Don't be a dick. Simple. Is that so hard?

[Quixal]

Enduance XXVII wrote...
Because when you work at a company, you are held to a higher standard.

As a human being you have to be held to some sort of standard. Or so I would have thought. The treatment Hepler has received over this is not something appropriate to level at the worst person to ever live much less someone who merely dared to have an opinion about a game.

[Saberchic]

I'm truly sorry Jennifer had to go through that awful ordeal. Those bullies' actions were reprehensible. They believe that because there's cyberspace, they can hide behind their computers/phones and say anything they want without experiencing any consequences. I truly hope they get what they deserve.

I also hope that Jennifer realizes that she does have people who support her, and that she doesn't let trash like that get to her. I'm glad Bioware is sticking by her through this, and I just want to send my best wishes her way.

[Niddy']

Zhijn wrote...

Uh, why are these individuals so angry? From what i can gather she is a writer not a game designer, so she would have nothing to do with any actually gameplay?. Not that it matters anyway since there is no excuse for any of this.

Anyway, dont stop writing. I still like EaWares/yours stories. =)

The reason people dislike her is because she is in gaming.  She said herself the thing she dislikes least about video games is actually having to play them.  Someone who works for a video game company should never even think this; I mean, what is the point of being in the industry?

Her ideology has wormed itself into other games like ME3 with the introduction of story mode and action mode; and people don't like this.

[AtreiyaN7]

ScottishMartialArts wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

 Wrong - I never said that people should be ignored. I said that we are NOT OBLIGATED to listen to them if we don't respect an individual - like in situations where people resort to using hateful speech and bullying others to try to get their points across.

You realize that that's a very subtle distinction, and that 99% of the time there will be no difference between the two cases, right? To be honest, I didn't pick up on the distinction until you made it explicit just now, so thank you for saying it clearly.

And if you've taken a dislike to me for debating with you these past few posts, that's certainly your perogative, and, like I said earlier, it's a very human response. I don't think it was entirely necessary though since this whole discussion began when I responded to someone else, and you felt the need to defend them. If anyone should be mad at me, it should probably be the person I originally responded to.

At any rate, enjoy your raid. WoW, TOR, or something else?

Since you are presumably into the whole freedom of speech thing, to the degree that you think people who express their criticism in a hateful manner deserve to be listened to under any circumstances, I guess I'm free to respond to anything I please on the side of being civil when you're criticizing something. And while I don't particularly like you or your arguments, I'm not mad at you. The only people I'm angry with are the irresponsible people who don't think before they speak or write - the ones who think that it's perfectly acceptable to engage in cyberbullying and generally crappy behavior.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 22 février 2012 - 05:23 .

[ChapDev]

So I just found out about all of this happening, So I decided to make an account purely to comment on it, And it's one of the view times I find it difficult to bring thoughts to words but I will try my best.

What the internet can throw out has sometimes disgusted me before but I feel this is a new level of low from people, Personally I enjoy your writing Jennifer and I would say not to take notice of the comments though I know that isn't as easy as it sounds, So instead I would say to take notice of the possitive comments you are recieving here from your fanbase instead and from the people supporting you.

~ Chap.

[Imported_beer]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Paaaaage 42!

Also: what is so ahrd to understand about decent behavior? Don't be a dick. Simple. Is that so hard?

Whoops. Retype.

Apparently, it is.

Here is a quote from an article that talks about the things that were said to her:
Hepler has been called "****," "Jew," "****," and "****." She's been criticized for her gender, her appearance, and
her religion. Attacks on her have referenced  Hitler, bestiality, rape, murder, cannibalism, and
prostitution. 


In addition, people have given her really nasty nicknames told her to kill herself, called her a cancer, called her up at home.

A lot of this has happened for months.

I don't care how much you think Bioware sucks. I don't care how much you think she sucks as a writer. I don't see any justification for such behavior. None. I can't see any justification for adding any "buts" to your categorical rejection of behavior like this. No "this wouldn't happen if Bioware moderated differently". No "this wouldn't happen if she hadn't made a snarky statement" 3 months after this started. No buts.

This is just nasty, nasty, nasty stuff that I cannot imagine anyone "justifying". And many people did. Some did so vehemently. Some did in the "this is wrong, but...BIOWARE!" way. But people have defended this behavior and I never ever thought I'd see people do that.

/I am a nobody. I will never influence anyone. My rant is just to get my rage off my chest. 

Modifié par Imported_beer, 22 février 2012 - 05:30 .

[AtreiyaN7]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Paaaaage 42!

Also: what is so ahrd to understand about decent behavior? Don't be a dick. Simple. Is that so hard?

Apparently, it is hard - kind of like when people in my raid group don't select their roles on those now rare occasions when we queue for the raidfinder. I can see it being extra hard for some people to wrap their heads around the something more complex like the idea of decent behavior.

P.S. All my guildies joke about it when someone's afk and fails to click for the record. Also, I am currently not being 100% serious because I'm tired of it after a zillion pages of seriousness.

[spira mirabilis]

Loong thread. I just wanted to express my happiness about the original post. Keep up the good writing~ The bullying was disgusting, no question.

[schythe1]

Look, I don't expect anyone on this site to agree with me or even say that any point I am about to make is valid but you guys are being very one sided.

No Hepler did not deserve the treatment she got as far as I can tell but don't you dare say that constructive criticism was not given to bioware/EA. For years people have come to various websites such as bioware social and individual game forums run by bioware to discuss what they would like to see in games and what they thought were good or bad decisions in Bioware's games. For example the whole lelianna thing and they were told "We will do as we see fit and you have no say in the matter."

If that were an isolated incident it would be fine but this kind of thing keeps happening, TOR is another example. I played the game for a little while and during my time on the TOR forums I saw many posts and entire threads deleted because they dissagreed with bioware and while I am not denying that there were also posts that were made with the intention of being troll ****fests this does not mean that any and all criticism is trolling and should be removed.

And then this thread, here we have had people put together civilized arguments about how they feel that Bioware is abusing their authority by deleting whole pages of posts and even these posts get taken down which honestly would sound like a bad joke if I had not seen it for myself.

Here is the weirdest part to me; this thread has become nothing but a giant argument that is barely even related to the original topic and when one person mentioned the previous attempts at civility (and subsequently had that comment deleted) the mods deleted the comment but told people to keep talking. This looks like they are saying "you cannot disagree with us but please everyone else keep telling us how right we are and how much of a good thing we are doing"

Many people feel like constructive criticism has failed time and time again and in their anger over being told "your opinion does not matter/ You are too stupid to get it/ you disagree with us so we will delete your comments and possibly ban you from making any more/" they lashed out.

No, Hepler did not deserve this but how long can you belittle and abuse your clients before they get angry and lash out at the nearest scape goat?

[Imported_beer]

schythe1 wrote...

No, Hepler did not deserve this but how long can you belittle and abuse your clients before they get angry and lash out at the nearest scape goat?

I'll repeat what I said earlier.

Imported_beer wrote...


Here is a quote from an article that talks about the things that were said to her:
Hepler has been called "****," "Jew," "****," and "****." She's been criticized for her gender, her appearance, and
her religion. Attacks on her have referenced  Hitler, bestiality, rape, murder, cannibalism, and
prostitution. 


In addition, people have given her really nasty nicknames told her to kill herself, called her a cancer, called her up at home. 

A lot of this has happened for months.

I don't care how much you think Bioware sucks. I don't care how much you think she sucks as a writer. I don't see any justification for such behavior. None. I can't see any justification for adding any "buts" to your categorical rejection of behavior like this. No "this wouldn't happen if Bioware moderated differently". No "this wouldn't happen if she hadn't made a snarky statement" 3 months after this started. No buts.

This is just nasty, nasty, nasty stuff that I cannot imagine anyone "justifying". And many people did. Some did so vehemently. Some did in the "this is wrong, but...BIOWARE!" way. But people have defended this behavior and I never ever thought I'd see people do that.

/I am a nobody. I will never influence anyone. My rant is just to get my rage off my chest. 

[Xanatos Chimera]

Imported_beer wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Paaaaage 42!

Also: what is so ahrd to understand about decent behavior? Don't be a dick. Simple. Is that so hard?

Whoops. Retype.

Apparently, it is.

Here is a quote from an article that talks about the things that were said to her:
Hepler has been called "****," "Jew," "****," and "****." She's been criticized for her gender, her appearance, and
her religion. Attacks on her have referenced  Hitler, bestiality, rape, murder, cannibalism, and
prostitution. 


In addition, people have given her really nasty nicknames told her to kill herself, called her a cancer, called her up at home.

A lot of this has happened for months.

I don't care how much you think Bioware sucks. I don't care how much you think she sucks as a writer. I don't see any justification for such behavior. None. I can't see any justification for adding any "buts" to your categorical rejection of behavior like this. No "this wouldn't happen if Bioware moderated differently". No "this wouldn't happen if she hadn't made a snarky statement" 3 months after this started. No buts.

This is just nasty, nasty, nasty stuff that I cannot imagine anyone "justifying". And many people did. Some did so vehemently. Some did in the "this is wrong, but...BIOWARE!" way. But people have defended this behavior and I never ever thought I'd see people do that.

/I am a nobody. I will never influence anyone. My rant is just to get my rage off my chest. 

FWIW, I agree with you.  Well said.

[schythe1]

Imported_beer wrote...

schythe1 wrote...

No, Hepler did not deserve this but how long can you belittle and abuse your clients before they get angry and lash out at the nearest scape goat?

I'll repeat what I said earlier.

Imported_beer wrote...


Here is a quote from an article that talks about the things that were said to her:
Hepler has been called "****," "Jew," "****," and "****." She's been criticized for her gender, her appearance, and
her religion. Attacks on her have referenced  Hitler, bestiality, rape, murder, cannibalism, and
prostitution. 


In addition, people have given her really nasty nicknames told her to kill herself, called her a cancer, called her up at home. 

A lot of this has happened for months.

I don't care how much you think Bioware sucks. I don't care how much you think she sucks as a writer. I don't see any justification for such behavior. None. I can't see any justification for adding any "buts" to your categorical rejection of behavior like this. No "this wouldn't happen if Bioware moderated differently". No "this wouldn't happen if she hadn't made a snarky statement" 3 months after this started. No buts.

This is just nasty, nasty, nasty stuff that I cannot imagine anyone "justifying". And many people did. Some did so vehemently. Some did in the "this is wrong, but...BIOWARE!" way. But people have defended this behavior and I never ever thought I'd see people do that.

/I am a nobody. I will never influence anyone. My rant is just to get my rage off my chest. 

I am not trying to justify it I am saying that I believe that given the road bioware has been on an outburst was inevitable.   I also feel that the rest of the points in my post still stand.

[Generics]

Instead of responding to criticism in a productive manner to open dialogue and maybe change minds- BioWare employee Hepler insulted critical fans by calling them unemployed virgins. That is bullying.

Instead of responding to criticism in a productive manner to open dialogue and maybe change minds- BioWare employee Flynn told a critical fan to perform a sexual act on himself. That is bullying.

I certainly hope the $1000 donated came out of these two employees' paychecks. They are just as guilty as the fans. Set the example- fans have nothing to lose by voicing their opinions. But your company's reputation is tarnished by being brazenly hypocritical for allowing your own employees to bully fans while complaining about the inverse.

inb4 this is removed and I am banned because I expressed an opposing, rational, non-trolling viewpoint on this subject and you guys just can't handle that. 

[Rinji the Bearded]

Generics wrote...
inb4 this is removed and I am banned because I expressed an opposing, irrational, trolling viewpoint on this subject and you guys just can't handle that. 

Fixed.

schythe1 wrote...
I am not trying to justify it I am saying
that I believe that given the road bioware has been on an outburst was
inevitable.   I also feel that the rest of the points in my post still
stand

No, you can never justify or excuse that kind of behavior.  You're also insinuating that there are Bioware fans who are basically ticking time bombs waiting to go off when things don't go their way.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 22 février 2012 - 05:44 .

[AtreiyaN7]

schythe1 wrote...

*snip* 

I'm just not even bothering to quote that. There's no censorship of dissenting opinions when they've actually been respectfully voiced. There were several that I saw earlier - you don't like Hepler's writing/style? That's certainly fine, but there's no need to throw around namecalling and worse. The only threads that I've seen deleted (when I've actually paid attention to the forums) have had trolling/hateful crap in them, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

As for what happened to Hepler, seriously, don't make excuses. She's not blame, and I don't care how out of sorts fans are about not getting responses they want/communication/whatever from BioWare - everything that happened was uncalled for and there was just no reason for it no matter how upset people are that they didn't like DA2 or the direction that ME2 went in or whatever else their problem is with the company and the games.

[bakagami]

Bladefist_01 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

I'm still waiting for an apology statement by Aaryn Flynn, his comments were very unprofessional, when dealing with people that use childish insults you should never resort to them yourself, it doesn't matter that they were insulting her, everyone knows to just ignore bullies

You were fortunate enough to never have been bullied, have you? It gnaws at your insides until you can't take it anymore. Then you just blow up. 

I was bullied to such a degree it lead to me dropping out of high school. And I too wish to get an apology from Jennifer Hepler and Aaryn Flynn. I found your comment to not only be rude but misinformed and wish for you to retract your statement.

and when do you think those ****hats will apologize for attacking Jennifer Hepler?  I don't see you apologizing for their behavior.  BTW I AM apologizing for them,  they are an embarrasment to any gamer in my opinion.  I personally think that both her & her colleage showed remarkable restraint.  Had I been there I would have been tearing into them with much vigor

[DAYtheELF]

Jennifer Hepler wrote almost all of my favorite parts from DA:O and DA2 (many of which I wasn't even aware were by her until later). She is a fantastic, talented writer whom I respect a lot.

In addition, she is also an awesome person. She has been known to lurk around the Anders fan thread, and has even given advice to people on jobs related to the gaming industry and writing.

I her a lot, and DA could not possibly be the same without her. Thank you BioWare for showing your support, and thank you Jennifer for being you!

[schythe1]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

schythe1 wrote...

*snip* 

I'm just not even bothering to quote that. There's no censorship of dissenting opinions when they've actually been respectfully voiced. There were several that I saw earlier - you don't like Hepler's writing/style? That's certainly fine, but there's no need to throw around namecalling and worse. The only threads that I've seen deleted (when I've actually paid attention to the forums) have had trolling/hateful crap in them, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

As for what happened to Hepler, seriously, don't make excuses. She's not blame, and I don't care how out of sorts fans are about not getting responses they want/communication/whatever from BioWare - everything that happened was uncalled for and there was just no reason for it no matter how upset people are that they didn't like DA2 or the direction that ME2 went in or whatever else their problem is with the company and the games.

I am not making excuses.  What happened was not right and I said that but I also said that something was bound to happen and she was just a convenient target.  

And yes they have been deleting reasonable posts and this is not the first thread they have done that in.  

Again I feel like the rest of my post is valid and you just want to say I am defending peopl ethat abused her.  I have said they were wrong.

All I am syaing is that some kind of situation was inevitable and this is the form it took.  If anything I think she got was a victim between bioware abusing it's fans and the fans abusing them back.

[tigrina]

schythe1 wrote...
Many people feel like constructive criticism has failed time and time again and in their anger over being told "your opinion does not matter/ You are too stupid to get it/ you disagree with us so we will delete your comments and possibly ban you from making any more/" they lashed out.

No, Hepler did not deserve this but how long can you belittle and abuse your clients before they get angry and lash out at the nearest scape goat?

It is simple. They are a company and they make their own products. We don't. We can say we like it or not like it. Even tell them what we like or not. But it is not like they would be able to make something that is universally considered an excellent product if they had infinite time and other resources. So they don't base their decisions on what we tell them. How is that any different with any other product on the market?

Every criticism, if stated in a civil matter, can be made on the forums as far as I've read them.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I really don't see what is so hard about that.

If you are seriously that upset about it, make a petition to BW's people who actually decide stuff.

This whole harassment issue makes no sense to me whatsoever. There is no excuse to single out a person for this kind of behaviour. None.

[Dragoonlordz]

schythe1 wrote...

No, Hepler did not deserve this but how long can you belittle and abuse your clients before they get angry and lash out at the nearest scape goat?

Not even a real issue, don't buy the products, don't support the changes by buying the products is the actual solution to being offended by direction a brand or developer goes in. Show it with either decency and polite response or just don't buy the product at all. Personal attacks have no ground to stand on. She and Bioware did not kill a kitten or cut off your air supply, it's a game, her opinion on a game and she did not run over your dog. There is no excuse.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 février 2012 - 05:47 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Generics wrote...

*snips umpteenth pointless defense of internet jerks*

No, because Hepler's been subjected to this treatment for months and made a snarky comment (not nice, but given what she's dealt with somewhat understandable). The fans weren't voicing their opinions either - they were being flat-out hateful and spiteful based on an interview from six years ago mixed with some comments that weren't even hers. Telling someone to <bleep> off is not bullying btw. Bullying is the kind of harassment that Hepler was subjected to.

[Rinji the Bearded]

schythe1 wrote...

All I am syaing is that some kind of situation was inevitable and this is the form it took.  If anything I think she got was a victim between bioware abusing it's fans and the fans abusing them back.

What fans are you talking about here?  I have never felt abused by Bioware.