1876 réponses à ce sujet

[AerosmithNirvana]

Which is just silly, eh?

[AerosmithNirvana]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I don't remember any of the removed context of Heplers quote of 2006 changing a goddamn thing. People don't really care about why she thinks that a fast forward button is a good idea, it's just the whole principle of having one at all that made people rage.

Wouldn't it be just as valid to critisize people skipping diaglogue in an RPG? I mean, it's the principle of the thing, after all.

[BellaStrega]

Jahannam wrote...

Ahh Bella..

Didnt you know on the internet men are men, women are men and children are FBI agents?

That's what they keep telling me.

[Christoph1980]

 I just reactivated my account to be able to post here:
I want to express my utter disgust of those people not tolerating an opinion different to their own.
Without becoming too philosophical - its exactly these people which are responsible for the current state of this world and all that is going wrong there.
Apart from that I also fullheartedly agree with Jennifer's statements: As a person who - most probably in strong contrast to these people - has an actual life I am coming home from work in the late evening and I have a girl friend. If then from time to time I play a game on my PC or console I REALLY dont have the energy or time to hone my fighting skills to get past huge combat sections. Instead I want to experience a great storyline, being the hero, making great decisions that have consequences in that virtual world, that I visit for pure entertainment and relaxation.
The fact that Bioware games have always an easy difficulty setting for combat - looking so much forward to the story mode in ME3 - is the VERY REASON I am buying and playing every Bioware game.

So my message to these horrible people - grow up, learn some manners and get a real life!!!

[BellaStrega]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...
I don't remember any of the removed context of Heplers quote of 2006 changing a goddamn thing. People don't really care about her motive for wanting a fast foreward button, to skip the combat and go straight to the cut scenes, it's the  whole principle of having one at all that made people rage. It just totally defies the concept of gameplay and makes games into non-games to try and appeal to people who don't like games.

The fact that people raged at all is ludicrous.

Y'all picked a really stupid molehill to die on.

[Johanna]

I am not able to donate, but I wish to add my unwavering support for Ms. Hepler.

Thank you, BioWare, for looking out for her. It's damned decent of you.

[Darth Krytie]

BellaStrega wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...
I don't remember any of the removed context of Heplers quote of 2006 changing a goddamn thing. People don't really care about her motive for wanting a fast foreward button, to skip the combat and go straight to the cut scenes, it's the  whole principle of having one at all that made people rage. It just totally defies the concept of gameplay and makes games into non-games to try and appeal to people who don't like games.

The fact that people raged at all is ludicrous.

Y'all picked a really stupid molehill to die on.

I heart you for this.

[Jahannam]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I don't remember any of the removed context of Heplers quote of 2006 changing a goddamn thing. People don't really care about why she thinks that a fast forward button is a good idea, it's just the whole principle of having one at all that made people rage.

The more I think about skipping combat as a option the more I like it. After getting hammered at the bar maybe I would like to just say skip it and progress the storyline. I mean sure thats easymode but its not like im competing with a crowd in a single player game. Who really cares how I go through a game? I can skip cutscenes too...who cares? Its only affecting me. Are people going to rage about being a paragon or renagede?

[Reptilian Rob]

BellaStrega wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

There's seems to be a lot of double standards, like the fact that Flynn and Hepler are getting away with calling the fanbase virgins and morons.

Still, not saying who is right or wrong here, I'm just saying you shouldn't call the kettle black when you are the pot.

There's something wrong with one's worldview when they look at a situation that's developed over several months to a year during which a group of people have harassed one person to the point of calling her at her own home, and notice that after all this treatment over a long period of time, she made one snarky comment... and decide that the real problem is that the target of this sustained bullying is in the wrong for responding.

This isn't a double standard. What she said, what Aaryn said, compared to the provocation that they were responding to? No comparison. Not the same ballpark, not the same league or even the same sport.

It is ridiculous that calling out bullies is seen as exactly as bad as engaging in bullying over a period of months.

Unfortunatly you've gotten your facts wrong, Bella. This didn't blow up until March 8th, 2011, when EA rushed what could have been a potentially amazing game, but ended up a flop for the most part.

Hepler was an unintentional casualty of said fallout, and should have just left Reddit and 4chan to wallow in it's own filth. Instead she ignited the fire by saying things like "They are just jealous that I have a job and a Vagina, something they will never have or get." and then Flynn coming around saying that the gamers THEMSELVES were "****ing morons and should go **** themselves."

You see, the double standard here, or as us Literature majors like to call it "The Coleridgeinan Effect" (Kubla Kahn FTW) is that a higher form of corporate power directly insulted their user base. THAT, is what ignited this whole debacle. The ordeal was pretty low key, with mindless TORtanic jokes and DA2 ramblings until Flynn and Hepler joined in on the nuking. It's like physics, when you put more trittium inside a tamper of uranium and plutonium, the larger the output is going to be. The uranium was 4chan, and the plutonium was Reddit. The trittium was Flynn and Hepler, who ignited the whole mass to critical. 

Again, I'm not saying who is wrong or right. But there is a direct reaction to what transpiered, and there is enough blame to go around. The fact that GROWN ASS adults are bickering back and forth is not helping one bit either, or the fact that the gaming press is so one sided and jaded.

No one is right, no one is wrong. Is Reddit and 4chan a bunch of jerks? Most certainly. Did Hepler and Flynn hit the bee hive with a stick? Yes, yes they did.

The best way to go about this (I myself have been in this same situation for things I have written) is to ignor it. Once you do that, it snuffs out the flame. That's how 4chan and Reddit work, that's how they function at a basic level. You guys give them far too much credit for what they do. Reddit is just a place where jerks meet to complain, and 4chan is a board filled with idiots who think they run the world.

And to all those who keep calling this a "cancer", get real. You don't know what cancer is, and you belittle those brave people who are actually fighting cancer of their own. 

There's always two sides to a story, you just have to look past the narrow view to see it.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 22 février 2012 - 10:05 .

[lead341]

As "gaming idealist" I always defended here in Germany the notion that playing demanding games (as for example the RPGs of Bioware) contributes to people´s intellectual and moral standards. Unfortunately, in many cases - as this sad example regarding these absurds attacks shows - this is indeed not always the case.

[AerosmithNirvana]

Insulted? I don't think so. She just (many years ago) expressed which parts she likes better than others. I was unaware that everybody has to love every aspect of every little thing related to their job.

Modifié par AerosmithNirvana, 22 février 2012 - 10:02 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

AerosmithNirvana wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I don't remember any of the removed context of Heplers quote of 2006 changing a goddamn thing. People don't really care about why she thinks that a fast forward button is a good idea, it's just the whole principle of having one at all that made people rage.

Wouldn't it be just as valid to critisize people skipping diaglogue in an RPG? I mean, it's the principle of the thing, after all.

No, it wouldn't because you see gameplay in itself is a form of story telling. There is more to game stories than telling cinematics, and if havinga a fast forward button were to be a standard feature in the future of games what do you think would happen? Would the developers of Dead Space and System SHock 2 bother with including the adio logs? Or how about Valves Half-Life 2 which tells much of its story through the game worlds scenery? And I can name plenty more examples.  If you fast forewarded the gameplay of these games for the cutscenes well you'd be missing most of the context and plot development so you needn't bother.

[Johanna]

MadLaughter wrote...

I wholeheartedly agree that all of the attacks on her were reprehensible, but I also feel that it's fair to say that her quote "I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either." was incredibly unprofessional and somewhat deluded. "They are all just jealous" is the most shallow, vain retort a person could possibly have, even to personal attacks. The people that attacked her are idiots, but her response did not show much humility or insight.

No one should be expected to show humility in response to abuse.
And, my opinion only, her response showed quite a bit of insight indeed!

[AerosmithNirvana]

Cancer: http://dictionary.re...&src=ref&ch=dic

See definition 2 up top, definition 3 under World English, and the final note at the bottom.

[AerosmithNirvana]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

AerosmithNirvana wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I don't remember any of the removed context of Heplers quote of 2006 changing a goddamn thing. People don't really care about why she thinks that a fast forward button is a good idea, it's just the whole principle of having one at all that made people rage.

Wouldn't it be just as valid to critisize people skipping diaglogue in an RPG? I mean, it's the principle of the thing, after all.

No, it wouldn't because you see gameplay in itself is a form of story telling. There is more to game stories than telling cinematics, and if havinga a fast forward button were to be a standard feature in the future of games what do you think would happen? Would the developers of Dead Space and System SHock 2 bother with including the adio logs? Or how about Valves Half-Life 2 which tells much of its story through the game worlds scenery? And I can name plenty more examples.  If you fast forewarded the gameplay of these games for the cutscenes well you'd be missing most of the context and plot development so you needn't bother.

Well, then I recommend you not play the games you don't like and move along and be merry. You say, "no", I say, "yes", and we are both right because it fits for each of us. There should be no "rage" here - period.

[Reptilian Rob]

pants witch wrote...

MadLaughter wrote...

I wholeheartedly agree that all of the attacks on her were reprehensible, but I also feel that it's fair to say that her quote "I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either." was incredibly unprofessional and somewhat deluded. "They are all just jealous" is the most shallow, vain retort a person could possibly have, even to personal attacks. The people that attacked her are idiots, but her response did not show much humility or insight.

No one should be expected to show humility in response to abuse.
And, my opinion only, her response showed quite a bit of insight indeed!

No, her remark was like sticking a blasting cap into a wasp nest. 

And the amount of humility a person has, is directly related to how a person views their own worth. The less you lash out and project against those who defile you, the more you value yourself and the more your silence speaks to your true worth.

[Sagacious Rage]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

AerosmithNirvana wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I don't remember any of the removed context of Heplers quote of 2006 changing a goddamn thing. People don't really care about why she thinks that a fast forward button is a good idea, it's just the whole principle of having one at all that made people rage.

Wouldn't it be just as valid to critisize people skipping diaglogue in an RPG? I mean, it's the principle of the thing, after all.

No, it wouldn't because you see gameplay in itself is a form of story telling. There is more to game stories than telling cinematics, and if havinga a fast forward button were to be a standard feature in the future of games what do you think would happen? Would the developers of Dead Space and System SHock 2 bother with including the adio logs? Or how about Valves Half-Life 2 which tells much of its story through the game worlds scenery? And I can name plenty more examples.  If you fast forewarded the gameplay of these games for the cutscenes well you'd be missing most of the context and plot development so you needn't bother.

There aren't two separate sets of writers for player-directed dialogue and cutscenes. The writers who write the cutscenes also write the dialogue trees that the player gets to choose. You know. One of those gameplay elements that doesn't include combat. 

[tetrisblock4x1]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

There's seems to be a lot of double standards, like the fact that Flynn and Hepler are getting away with calling the fanbase virgins and morons.

Still, not saying who is right or wrong here, I'm just saying you shouldn't call the kettle black when you are the pot.

There's something wrong with one's worldview when they look at a situation that's developed over several months to a year during which a group of people have harassed one person to the point of calling her at her own home, and notice that after all this treatment over a long period of time, she made one snarky comment... and decide that the real problem is that the target of this sustained bullying is in the wrong for responding.

This isn't a double standard. What she said, what Aaryn said, compared to the provocation that they were responding to? No comparison. Not the same ballpark, not the same league or even the same sport.

It is ridiculous that calling out bullies is seen as exactly as bad as engaging in bullying over a period of months.

Unfortunatly you've gotten your facts wrong, Bella. This didn't blow up until March 8th, 2011, when EA rushed what could have been a potentially amazing game, but ended up a flop for the most part.

Hepler was an unintentional casualty of said fallout, and should have just left Reddit and 4chan to wallow in it's own filth. Instead she ignited the fire by saying things like "They are just jealous that I have a job and a Vagina, something they will never have or get." and then Flynn coming around saying that the gamers THEMSELVES were "****ing morons and should go **** themselves."

You see, the double standard here, or as us Literature majors like to call it "The Coleridgeinan Effect" (Kubla Kahn FTW) is that a higher form of corporate power directly insulted their user base. THAT, is what ignited this whole debacle. The ordeal was pretty low key, with mindless TORtanic jokes and DA2 ramblings until Flynn and Hepler joined in on the nuking. It's like physics, when you put more trittium inside a tamper of uranium and plutonium, the larger the output is going to be. The uranium was 4chan, and the plutonium was Reddit. The trittium was Flynn and Hepler, who ignited the whole mass to critical. 

Again, I'm not saying who is wrong or right. But there is a direct reaction to what transpiered, and there is enough blame to go around. The fact that GROWN ASS adults are bickering back and forth is not helping one bit either, or the fact that the gaming press is so one sided and jaded.

No one is right, no one is wrong. Is Reddit and 4chan a bunch of jerks? Most certainly. Did Hepler and Flynn hit the bee hive with a stick? Yes, yes they did.

The best way to go about this (I myself have been in this same situation for things I have written) is to ignor it. Once you do that, it snuffs out the flame. That's how 4chan and Reddit work, that's how they function at a basic level. You guys give them far too much credit for what they do. Reddit is just a place where jerks meet to complain, and 4chan is a board filled with idiots who think they run the world.

And to all those who keep calling this a "cancer", get real. You don't know what cancer is, and you belittle those brave people who are actually fighting cancer of their own. 

There's always two sides to a story, you just have to look past the narrow view to see it.

The tension has been building up for a while now. I believe it was during the DAII debacle when Gaider and the mods started talking down to people for no good reason that people started getting mad.

[Reptilian Rob]

AerosmithNirvana wrote...

Cancer: http://dictionary.re...&src=ref&ch=dic

See definition 2 up top, definition 3 under World English, and the final note at the bottom.

Again, Reddit and 4chan are NOT a cancer.

You give them far too much credit.

[Shazzie]

Ms. Hepler... Jennifer. I don't know if you will read this, but I just want to say that your existence- your job, what you do- make me very happy. That old interview was something I seriously disagreed with, but disagreeing with someone doesn't devalue their worth. You were awesome before I disagreed with you, and you remained awesome after.

As to that 'jealous' quote of yours from Twitter... I'll stand up and say yes. Yes, I am jealous. You're a woman with a job I would dearly, dearly  love to have, and I'm a woman stuck in her house due to just enough disability to make it so. So, yes, I'm jealous, and I'll freely admit it.

And you're still awesome.
Thank you for being so.
~Shannon

[Reptilian Rob]

I'm going to bed, this thread was not needed.

At all.

The support was, not the discussion.

[tetrisblock4x1]

AerosmithNirvana wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

AerosmithNirvana wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I don't remember any of the removed context of Heplers quote of 2006 changing a goddamn thing. People don't really care about why she thinks that a fast forward button is a good idea, it's just the whole principle of having one at all that made people rage.

Wouldn't it be just as valid to critisize people skipping diaglogue in an RPG? I mean, it's the principle of the thing, after all.

No, it wouldn't because you see gameplay in itself is a form of story telling. There is more to game stories than telling cinematics, and if havinga a fast forward button were to be a standard feature in the future of games what do you think would happen? Would the developers of Dead Space and System SHock 2 bother with including the adio logs? Or how about Valves Half-Life 2 which tells much of its story through the game worlds scenery? And I can name plenty more examples.  If you fast forewarded the gameplay of these games for the cutscenes well you'd be missing most of the context and plot development so you needn't bother.

Well, then I recommend you not play the games you don't like and move along and be merry. You say, "no", I say, "yes", and we are both right because it fits for each of us. There should be no "rage" here - period.

I don't even know anyone on this forum, why would I be raging? I just want to know something: surely people on this forum can see why wanting gaming to be a passive cutscene watching experience is a dumb idea? This is afterall a medium which thrives on weaving story with interaction, and the book and movie mediums aren't short of quality or variety.

[AerosmithNirvana]

Okay, I'll give you that. However, people using the word in one way doesn't mean they are disrespecting the people who have the disease.
[That was a response to Reptillian Rob]

Modifié par AerosmithNirvana, 22 février 2012 - 10:13 .

[Jahannam]

Reptilian Rob wrote...
And to all those who keep calling this a "cancer", get real. You don't know what cancer is, and you belittle those brave people who are actually fighting cancer of their own.

The hell I dont man. I live with it every day and the analogy is spot on. The more you let this crap go on the worse it gets. Ignoring it does not make it go away. I hope you dont get it...but if you do go ahead and ignore and and see how that works out for you.

Letting this kinda garbage continue on the internet for years let it spread and became acceptable behavior. Its about damn time people said enough. I applaud Bioware for doing that and others supporting them. Its gotta stop or the communication between the developers and us will stop. Which do you want?

[thelovebat]

I'm just going to leave this here.

http://i.imgur.com/HyF8Z.png

Take it as you will, personally I don't think I would hire anyone who wrote something like that and was their only book but its Bioware's decision.