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[Enduance XXVII]

She said I have a vagina and you're just just jealous is pretty sexist

[Enduance XXVII]

BellaStrega wrote...

Jennifer Hepler didn't have a twitter rant, and calling a bunch of guys virgins is hardly sexist.

Like I said earlier, what she tweeted was incredibly mild compared to what she was responding to. Are you really that oversensitive and thin-skinned that her tweet causes you so much pain?

Yes because if a guy said it he would be fired on the spot

[Thourq]

Wow.. I didn't even know this occurred until I went to gamespot just today. Its sad and it sure is disgusting to see people behave that way and treat people so immaturely. I'm not sure exactly who Jennifer Hepler wrote in DA:O or DA2, but I do hope she still continues to write for Bioware because I love all the characters from the Dragon Age series.

(If his is a double post, I apologize, my internet isn't being very good to me right now =/)

[Thomas Andresen]

Enduance XXVII wrote...

She said I have a vagina and you're just just jealous is pretty sexist

Why even mention this? First off, it was a retort, not a rant. Second, while it may have been sexist, it pales against what has been used against her. Yes, it was certainly not the best retort, but it's the kind of thing that most mature people would shrug at, then move on.

[shaneho78]

Adding my unequivocal support for Jennifer. Glad that Bioware is taking a stand against self-entitled bullies emboldened by anonymity, numerical strength and cowardly groupthink. Why is it that some cannot engage more or less dispassionately in a reasoned and non-personal fashion?

Additionally, I find the option of skipping combat actually useful in several ways:

1) A non-gamer family member or friend can experience the story without the hassle of learning combat
2) A gamer who has already completed the game can explore different dialogue/story options more conveniently or check out a specific party banter that they might have missed.
3) Convenient for youtube users to record and upload specific cutscenes.

P.s Can't wait to play ME3.

[element eater]

this is all pretty sickening I don't approve of it at all including Jennifers retort, but given the circumstances you can hardly blame her. Good work Bioware for making a stand on this

good luck with the charity appeal i hope u make some money, I would donate but personaly id rather give money to an international or british charity 

Edit: that sounds alot harsher then its meant to but i hope people understand what i mean

Modifié par element eater, 23 février 2012 - 01:43 .

[Silfren]

That anyone feels the need to even mention Jennifer's retort--as has been said, it was hardly a rant--is mind-boggling.  Even her supporters have to go out of their way to point out how they just don't approve of it.

The insistence on the moral equivocating there is astounding.  Why on earth does anyone, especially people who are calling out the abuse itself, feel that lashing out against your abusers is exactly as bad? 

It isn't as though Hepler launched a counter-assault and responded with the same level and degree of harrassment and stalking and threats.  She made a single comment.  And given that she was lobbed with an excessive amount of gender-based insults, threatened with rape, and targeted as only women ever get targeted, it's hardly surprising that her retort would involve "oh they're just jealous I'm a girl." 

When all of your attackers are making the fact that you're a female part of their campaign to terrorize and humiliate and control--and make no mistake, that's precisely what the campaign was meant to do, it wasn't "just" childish jerks being immature--then it's a pretty natural comeback to point to their obsession with your gender as being a personal problem on their behalf. 

But really.  The attack on Hepler included not only gendered insults, but suggestions that she kill herself, and threats of physical harm, including death and rape.  Rape.  It escalated until she was being called at her home, and I can all but guarantee that if people had gone that far, then some of them had almost certainly tracked down her actual location.  This isn't mere schoolyard-level taunting.  It's legally classified as harrassment, stalking, and threatening behavior.  Against all that, people are actually trying to equivalize Hepler's one response as equally bad, equally sexist, and going on to talk about how unprofessional it was?

The pearl-clutching going on here about one woman's manners in the face of criminal activity, it's just..wow.

Modifié par Silfren, 23 février 2012 - 03:40 .

[Silfren]

ScottishMartialArts wrote...

It's a pretty big leap to go from "You know, I can see how people would be disappointed by this game" to "GET THE ROPE! IT'S TIME FOR A LYNCHING." I haven't made that jump although you seem to want to argue that I have.

Sure it is, but that's not actually what you're doing.  You're going, "Well, it was wrong of them to attack Hepler like that, but given how disappointing the game was, I can totally see why people would be upset."

By saying that you ARE stating that Bioware, and Hepler by extension, are at fault, at least partially, for her attack.  You're going at it in a roundabout way, but you're doing it nevertheless.  Because your whole shtick seems to be that this would not have happened had Bioware not created an atmosphere of extreme disappointment among its fans.  

"This wouldn't have happened if Bioware had made an awesome game."  You can't say that and NOT have the implication be that Hepler being singled out for attack was all Bioware's fault.

Modifié par Silfren, 23 février 2012 - 03:53 .

[Silfren]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Enduance XXVII wrote...

She said I have a vagina and you're just just jealous is pretty sexist

Why even mention this? First off, it was a retort, not a rant. Second, while it may have been sexist, it pales against what has been used against her. Yes, it was certainly not the best retort, but it's the kind of thing that most mature people would shrug at, then move on.

Never mind that Hepler has a life and a job and kids to take care of, which assuredly limits how much time she can devote to responding to her abusers...and Twitter is not exactly the ideal place for writing inspired Shakespearean insult material.

[Huntress]

[thanks, but technically a violation of Rule #2]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 24 février 2012 - 01:09 .

[Lady Orc]

There can be no justification at all for this sort of abominable behavior. It doesn't matter if you think DA2 is the worst game ever made (I don't), or Hepler the worst writer who ever lived (I don't), this is serious harassment, and it was sickening to read the kind of garbage these people have spewed at their chosen victim.

Also, I find it completely baffling that anybody would get so enraged about the idea that a singleplayer game might possibly contain an *optional* feature they don't like, that they'd act out like this over it, resorting to stalking, death threats, and rape threats, along with numerous personal insults. For that matter, even if it wasn't optional, even if the suggestion had actually been to remove all combat from all video games Bioware ever make in the future, how can anybody possibly think it justifies personal harassment? If you feel that way, then I think you have far worse problems than Bioware's developmental decisions.

[Eyeofanger]

 How pathetic can you get. Threatening someone. Outrageous

[Eyeofanger]

Lady Orc wrote...

There can be no justification at all for this sort of abominable behavior. It doesn't matter if you think DA2 is the worst game ever made (I don't), or Hepler the worst writer who ever lived (I don't), this is serious harassment, and it was sickening to read the kind of garbage these people have spewed at their chosen victim.

Also, I find it completely baffling that anybody would get so enraged about the idea that a singleplayer game might possibly contain an *optional* feature they don't like, that they'd act out like this over it, resorting to stalking, death threats, and rape threats, along with numerous personal insults. For that matter, even if it wasn't optional, even if the suggestion had actually been to remove all combat from all video games Bioware ever make in the future, how can anybody possibly think it justifies personal harassment? If you feel that way, then I think you have far worse problems than Bioware's developmental decisions.

did they stalked her over a game. That is so wrong. It's just a game. 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Silfren wrote...

By saying that you ARE stating that Bioware, and Hepler by extension, are at fault, at least partially, for her attack. 

Then I'm saying they're partially at fault. It doesn't mean I think what happened was justified. Justice depends upon commensurability. The just response to disappointment with Dragon Age II would be to not purchase Bioware's next game, and post why you're disappointed on the forums. What happened was completely incommensurate with any conceivable wrong ever done by Bioware or Hepler, and therefore cannot possibly be justified. That does not however mean there can't be a kernal of legitimate disappointment with Bioware's latest games.

What you're suggesting is that I'm not allowed to express dislike for Bioware's direction or their writing because that would be "blaming the victim". That isn't right. Consider for example, the aftermath of 9/11. Wouldn't the world be a bit better of a place, if the US had slowed down a bit and considered WHY that might have happened to them? Probably would've saved us at least one war. What you're suggesting is that serious reflection on why something bad happens to someone is a no-no because that might lead to the uncomfortable realization that the situation isn't black and white. Granted in the situation with Ms. Hepler, it's 99% black and white -- reddit and /v/ were way, way, way out of line -- but that doesn't mean there isn't room for a little gray either.

[PinkShoes]

Some people are just disgusting. Its horrible that some immature idiots did something like that.

[panamakira]

I said it in other places and I'll say it again here. I hope she didn't take any of that to heart. There are stupid and ignorant people with the power to type malice on a keyboard and post it online. I support her and I'm happy Bioware is behind her~

[Russalka]

People can disagree if they do it civilly. I liked and disliked her characters, and look forward to doing the same in the future Dragon Age games.

I still can't see how she feeling not particularly fond of combat has stopped her from adding so much to the Dragon Age world and the storylines we have experienced.

[Silfren]

ScottishMartialArts wrote...

Silfren wrote...

By saying that you ARE stating that Bioware, and Hepler by extension, are at fault, at least partially, for her attack. 

Then I'm saying they're partially at fault. It doesn't mean I think what happened was justified. Justice depends upon commensurability. The just response to disappointment with Dragon Age II would be to not purchase Bioware's next game, and post why you're disappointed on the forums. What happened was completely incommensurate with any conceivable wrong ever done by Bioware or Hepler, and therefore cannot possibly be justified. That does not however mean there can't be a kernal of legitimate disappointment with Bioware's latest games.

No.  The disappointment over the game is completely irrelevant.  There are quite a lot of Bioware fans who were extremely disappointed in DA2 and Bioware.  I'm friends with several.  But they are all completely innocent of having engaged in vicious attacks against Hepler or anyone else related to Bioware, because they are capable of understanding that disliking a game does not give a person the right to stalk, harrass, or threaten anyone. 

You are conflating the disappointment with the game with the attacks.  This is the problem.  You keep linking the two as if they are inseparable.  With you, it's always "the attacks were wrong, but the disappointment that led them to the attack is totally genuine and justified!" 

What you're missing is that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that this would not have happened even if DA2 had been a far more superior game than it turned out to be, and there had been no fan backlash at all.  Hepler's remark about optionally skippable combat is nothing more than her personal opinion.  I think it's quite reasonable to conclude that she would have held that opinion, and expressed it, even had DA2 come out and been universally well received.  In other words, this didn't happen because of disappointment with Bioware.  It happened because a group of jerks read something they didn't like.  You seem to think that had the game been well received, there would have been no assault on Hepler for her opinion about skippable combat.  I disagree completely.  The backlash, from what I have seen, seems to have been sparked off by that initial statement.

ScottishMartialArts wrote...

What you're suggesting is that I'm not allowed to express dislike for Bioware's direction or their writing because that would be "blaming the victim".

Cutting the rest of your statment because the first sentence is the important one.  NO, I am patently NOT saying that you are not permitted to express dislike of Bioware's direction or their writing.  Not once have I said that disliking anything Bioware did with DA2 amounts to blaming the victim.  This is a blatant twisting of my words.  Not a simple misinterpretation, but outright twisting.  

What I did say, just to make it perfectly clear, is that blaming the direction that Bioware took with DA2 and the resultant disappointment from some of the fanbase, FOR THE ATTACK ON HEPLER, is victim-blaming.  That is what I said.  In those words, with no room for the interpretation you pasted on to them.

Modifié par Silfren, 23 février 2012 - 07:08 .

[thats1evildude]

As a further note, I want to point out that the purpose of this thread is to offer condolences/show support for Hepler, not to debate DA2's supposed inadequacies.

[Silfren]

thats1evildude wrote...

As a further note, I want to point out that the purpose of this thread is to offer condolences/show support for Hepler, not to debate DA2's supposed inadequacies.

Ah, but see, according to ScottishMartialArts, this is the "official Hepler thread" so debating the "larger issue" is totally relevant.

[Drowsy0106]

Glad to see Bioware looking out for its employee's, this is truly a disturbing matter and a sad one at that.

[MoogleNut]

Adding my support to Jennifer Hepler and to Bioware.
There is NO excuse for bullying and abuse, glad to see so many taking a stand

[thegoldfinch]

@Silfren - You are great and everything you said is great.

I hope she's doing okay. There is absolutely no excuse for the barrage of hateful, disgusting, and sexist abuse she was hit with. There is absolutely no excuse to call someone's personal home phone and leave horrible messages just because you did not like a game they worked on. How much juvenile self entitlement do you have to have to believe that this behavior is justified?

[Teddie Sage]

I loathed Sebastian and this is probably the only thing I hated from Dragon Age II. But I gotta give Hepler some credits for making so many believable characters and situations in the franchise. I don't agree with people saying that she's the worst writer ever or that she's a cancer to the gaming industry. She is beforehand, a writer. And writers are artists who paint worlds with words, letters and paragraphs. You would never understand how she must feel reading all those hateful death threats and insults. She probably had a harder life than most of those haters, yet she stays strong on her feet. I say, leave this lady alone and let bygones be bygones.

Edit: I messed up my paragraph. Yikes. I need to rework my English skills.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 23 février 2012 - 08:47 .

[Silfren]

pixieface wrote...

@Silfren - You are great and everything you said is great.

I hope she's doing okay. There is absolutely no excuse for the barrage of hateful, disgusting, and sexist abuse she was hit with. There is absolutely no excuse to call someone's personal home phone and leave horrible messages just because you did not like a game they worked on. How much juvenile self entitlement do you have to have to believe that this behavior is justified?

Not all that much, I'm afraid.