1876 réponses à ce sujet

[seraphymon]

Sagacious Rage wrote...
You seem to be operating under the assumption that this was started by Hepler. Reddit has been seething for months. They swarmed her on Twitter, among other places. They called her home and threatened her children.

She made one comment. 

She did nothing to deserve this treatment. There was nothing she could have done to deserve this treatment. And I hope you never find yourself at the recieving end of this kind of behavior, only to find some jerkwad sitting in judgment of your one comment in defense of yourself, as if that justified everything that happened to you.

You're blaming the victim. The people at fault are the ones who chose to intimidate, harass, and stalk her. The end.

I never said she started, and your right , she didnt deserve those types of attacks and or threats, however imo it was the wrong type of comment to make, in addtion to what she has said.

I have been on the recieving end of such bullying, alot more than her go through it. Almost everyone at some point, and while the people who attack are at fault, adding fuel is also to blame, so yes i do blame the victim partially. Shes not as innocent in all this as people make her out to be.

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote... 
Whether or not you agree with how Hepler conducted herself, ask yourself this. And answer it honestly.

How, exactly, would you have reacted if you had been phoned at home (not work), been insulted, threatened with death, had your children threatened with death, and had abuse hurled at you from faceless cowards?

"Please stop"?

If you can remain calm and professional even after weeks of having your loved ones threatened, good for you. But why are you wagging your finger at Hepler for finally snapping? Yes, it threw fuel on the fire, but there's only so much goading the average person can take. Not everyone is as stoic as you are saying Hepler should have been. Saying she brought it on herself isn't going to help anything. :/ Let it go.

It all really depends on the situation now doesn't it? I in her shoes, i would ignore anything online, as far what happens in my home, that is my personal buisness how i handle it, just like it would be hers. but doing anything in public, in a posisiont such as hers i feels must be conducted in a better matter. If snapped like her i woulda apologized for lowering myself to that lvl in just a tiny bit. But i would think  this is something  people in those posistion would have to be ready for able to deal with, because its gonna happen sooner or later, with people attacking you like this, sad but its true. We all hope its never to this extent, but it happens.

what she brought on by her comments she did bring on herself, thats just how it is, yes it all leads up to the chain of people who started attacking, but when you do something to add fuel, then you are partially to blame simple as that, for what comes next. Its the consequences. Suprisingly im not the one trying to convince others or throw it in peoples faces. I merly statewd my opinion on this, its you and other who cant seem to let my opinion or others that share it go.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Good to see the good Doctor taking a public stand against this and showing support for an employee. What went on is not ok on any level. Targeting one person like that, even going so far as to calling her at her home, is repulsive and it makes me sick. Hopefully she can come back stronger from this.

[esper]

Kurtulan_Sama wrote...
[inappropriate quote removed]

That one sentence you said undermines your starting statement and everything else you said.
As for the rest of it. She is not in charge of da2 or da:o, if you don't think that the story is branching enough you should complain to Gaider and Laidlaw as they are headwriter and creative designer and thus responsible. Jennifer writes scenrios or companions whose ending proberly is pre-determined.
 
And no matter what you think of da2 and LOTR and Twillight and stats check and what have you. Jennifer NEVER had it coming. The victims of bullying NEVER had it coming and the ones who says so are more often than not the bullies so watch what you are saying for it is coming off horrible wrong.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 25 février 2012 - 08:16 .

[TomY90]

sorry to hear about what happened to Jennifer no matter what nobody does not deserve should poor treatment, especially considering Jennifer did not have anything to do with what she was accused of by people.

I wish her the best and hope this will be the end of such behaviour and is a very good cause to donate to.

I hope this does not put Jennifer off from continuing to work with Bioware, if that is the case then Bioware and its fans will lose someone great.

[casadechrisso]

I think I've read most of this story (articles, twitter msges) and I can only say there's no "two sides" and this whole story disgusts me. I'm by far no Biodrone, I call DA2 mediocre at best, I'm no fan of the writing in it or whatever, and there's a lot about Bioware's latest games to criticize which I usually do. I don't even know who wrote what parts in DA2 or ME2, there's a lot I might have a word on too.

But this kind of personal attacks is just so low and cheap, I don't know how anyone can even attempt to find an excuse for it. While I joined the DA2 "hate" crowd loudly back then, I would've never taken part in the personal attacks on Mike Laidlaw, which was already what I considered the lowest kind of attacks - and that was "only" about firing him. But surprise surprise, apparently it can always get worse, especially if the subject is a woman. The name calling, the sexist remarks, the death wishes, and a small attempt of her to reply in kind gets blown so totally out of proportion you really have to wonder how sick this world is. Shame on you who took part in that, you also make it almost impossible to criticize Bioware in a civilized manner anymore because any thinking person doesn't want to be associated with such a lynchmob.

And all the best to Jennifer, hope she'll get over it. Remember it's only mindless kids who enjoy the anonymity of the internet, and they're smaller in numbers than it seems, just loud.

Modifié par casadechrisso, 25 février 2012 - 08:21 .

[Stanley Woo]

Off-topic discussions and some inappropriate comments removed. This is not a thread for individuals to get on soapboxes, or for extended debate on sociopolitical issues. This is also not a thread to criticize the direction of BioWare games or let us know what you think of Anders or same-sex relationships in games.

This thread was created to show our support for our friend and colleague, Jennifer Hepler, so let's try to keep it somewhat on topic, please. Thank you.

[Corvus Black]

while i don't like helper or her works (especially i hate what she's done to anders), these attacks are quite low. best defence against these kinds of attacks however are ignoring them. i am speaking from experience.

[AmstradHero]

I apparently managed to miss this issue, and had to do some reading to find out what had gone on. I'd like to throw my support behind BioWare and Jennifer Hepler.

I must confess that my long term admiration of BioWare has been significantly dampened by design decisions in recent titles, but regardless of my opinion of some of this work, there is absolutely no excuse for the utterly disgusting behavior of these people and the tirade of abuse directed at Jennifer. I have no qualms with people analyzing, dissecting, or criticizing games on particular aspects of their design and execution - but that should not turn into personal attacks or threats against people. That is simply not on.

I commend BioWare for standing up to provide much needed support for their employee, and I hope that Jennifer continues her hard work.

I cannot guarantee that I will always wholeheartedly agree with her writing choices, but those are her choices to make, and if I disagree/disapprove, then it is my duty (as it is of every gamer) to address issues with the work, not with the person.

[Silfren]

seraphymon wrote...


This whole thread was voicing bioware support on JH. But just as much as you can or should support someone you should also take resposibility for their actions, Wether they agree with her philosiphy or not is one thing, or taking her side for the attacks. But when she attacks back, does that mean she should be in support of it? for lowering herself to the attackers lvl? to say that she can do what she wants and bioware will support? It doesnt matter if  her response was to her attackers, and it doesnt matter if it was something like twitter, its on the interenet, and almost no different than if she were to say such a thing on here. People constantly attack developers here, yet you dont really see insulting back because bioware in addition to thick skin, they carry themselves in a proffesional manner, and if they cant they dont respond at all.  I dont support that attacks, but its more dissapointing to see them coming from  JH, regardless of who it was against

When the people abusing someone are engaging in behavior that is legally classified as stalking and harrassment--and make no mistake, that's exactly what they were doing--and filling your space with gendered slurs, threatening physical harm, and even calling someone's personal phone...responding to it all with a comment suggesting that they are jealous virgins is NOT stopping to their level.

One retort that calls a person's virginity into question is NOT equal with criminal behavior.

Once again, this was NOT a matter of a few people attacking Hepler's viewpoint.  It was many months' worth of stalking, harrassment, and criminally liable threats against her person.  NOT the same thing at all as what you're implying.

[Silfren]

Corvus Black wrote...

while i don't like helper or her works (especially i hate what she's done to anders), these attacks are quite low. best defence against these kinds of attacks however are ignoring them. i am speaking from experience.

No, the best defense against this sh*t is sending a clear message that it won't be tolerated.  You DO NOT accomplish that by ignoring it, but by speaking out against it, and by taking legal action.  These miscreants broke the law, and are criminally liable.  

Also speaking from personal experience here: ignoring bullies doesn't stop them, it just fuels them on.  If they can't get a reaction by taunting or insulting you, then by God they'll beat it out of you if they must*.  Again, personal experience.  Ignoring a bully doesn't do anything but create a culture of silence that lets them get away with their behavior.


*Or, they'll find someone else to abuse.  This is the great fallacy of "just ignore them and they'll leave you alone."  Maybe they'll leave you alone.  Maybe.  But if they do, it doesn't mean the bullying has stopped, it just means they've gone in search of another target.  Ignoring bullies doesn't stop them.  Taking punitive action against them does.

Modifié par Silfren, 25 février 2012 - 10:09 .

[Corvus Black]

by ignoring them, i did not mean not taking any action againts the people responsible. i meant not engaging any conversation with them.

[esper]

Speaking for personal experience ignoring them don't make you feel better. Buillies don't give up, you see, not if they can get more to join in their bulliying. And if you keep letting them hit you without talking back you will break inwardly and risk much more damining mentally scars. We the lashing out mechanism for a reason, you know. It is a ventil and all things considered I think that it speaks voloumes of Jennifer that she did not react worse.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

seraphymon wrote...

what she brought on by her comments she did bring on herself, thats just how it is, yes it all leads up to the chain of people who started attacking, but when you do something to add fuel, then you are partially to blame simple as that, for what comes next. Its the consequences. Suprisingly im not the one trying to convince others or throw it in peoples faces. I merly statewd my opinion on this, its you and other who cant seem to let my opinion or others that share it go.

I think Hepler is well aware of what her response provoked.

People are angry at you and people like you because it doesn't need to be reiterated.

The last thing a victim of any sort of abuse needs to be told is that it's their fault for making it worse. There's a moment for truth, and a moment for bloody well being sensitive to the needs of a person who's suffered enough.

[Realmzmaster]

Silence would not help in this situation. It simply allows the bullies to think they can get away with it. The way to combat bullies is the way most of the posters in this thread are doing by showing support for the abused and not allowing any statements against the abused to go unchallenged.

Ms. Hepler made one comment after months of abuse. I am surprised that she did not lash back long time ago. She has shown far more restraint than a lot of people.

These bullies cross way over the line when they called her home and threatened her family. Some of the comments in this thread are actually blaming the victim? You have got to be kidding me! That stuff about suffering in silence is crap.

People have to stand up to this kind of treatment against anyone and let it be known it will not be tolerated.
I guess Ron White is correct with his tag line: You can't fix stupid! The people who attacked Ms. Hepler are the lowest of the low. Nobody can justify the attacks on Ms. Hepler.

If you want to criticize DA2 or Bioware as a company that is fair game. If you want to criticize Mike Laidlaw for how DA2 turn out that is fair game. Nobody has the right to insult, harass or threaten anyone over a video game or anything else.

As far as Ms Hepler statement adding fuel to the fire it does not matter when you already have a bonfire of hate for some of the dumbest reasons possible.

Some people on the Internet need a reality check.

[Silfren]

seraphymon wrote...

what she brought on by her comments she did bring on herself, thats just how it is, yes it all leads up to the chain of people who started attacking, but when you do something to add fuel, then you are partially to blame simple as that, for what comes next. Its the consequences. Suprisingly im not the one trying to convince others or throw it in peoples faces. I merly statewd my opinion on this, its you and other who cant seem to let my opinion or others that share it go.

No.  She didn't bring ANYTHING on herself.  Yes, this IS victim-blaming.  It assumes that her abusers have no agency and aren't responsible for the choice they made to engage in verbal abuse and threats.  

No victims are EVER to blame for what someone does to them.  This applies to people who forget to lock a door, walk in dimliy lit areas, or who respond to people making threats against them.

Criminal activity doesn't happen because victims create opportunities.  It happens because criminals choose to victimize people.

Also, if you express an opinion here, you can't expect people NOT to respond to it.  If you don't want an opinion challenged, I recommend not sharing it in a public forum where comments are enabled.

Modifié par Silfren, 26 février 2012 - 12:16 .

[Silfren]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

what she brought on by her comments she did bring on herself, thats just how it is, yes it all leads up to the chain of people who started attacking, but when you do something to add fuel, then you are partially to blame simple as that, for what comes next. Its the consequences. Suprisingly im not the one trying to convince others or throw it in peoples faces. I merly statewd my opinion on this, its you and other who cant seem to let my opinion or others that share it go.

I think Hepler is well aware of what her response provoked.

People are angry at you and people like you because it doesn't need to be reiterated.

The last thing a victim of any sort of abuse needs to be told is that it's their fault for making it worse. There's a moment for truth, and a moment for bloody well being sensitive to the needs of a person who's suffered enough.

I'm willing to bet, also, that Hepler probably didn't expect anything she said to have an impact on the campaign against her one way or the other.  I'm not too clear on the timeline of what happened when, but I do know it went on for months.  I rather doubt that Hepler made her remarks while the attack was winding down, and thought to re-invigorate the flames.  

She may well wish she hadn't said anything, at this point, but when you've been subjected to a concerted personal attack for as long as she was, I suspect that when you finally do lash out, you're probably figuring it's going to continue to rage regardless of what you say, and whether you say anything at all.

[Ponendus]

I hope Ms Hepler knows that she has lots of support out there. I for one am a big fan of her storylines. There is no excuse for personal attacks and bullying behaviour, many of us who are gamers and geeks should know that of all people.

I am going to donate in support too, bullying never has a place. Some people truly suck.

[seraphymon]

Silfren wrote...
When the people abusing someone are engaging in behavior that is legally classified as stalking and harrassment--and make no mistake, that's exactly what they were doing--and filling your space with gendered slurs, threatening physical harm, and even calling someone's personal phone...responding to it all with a comment suggesting that they are jealous virgins is NOT stopping to their level.

One retort that calls a person's virginity into question is NOT equal with criminal behavior.

Once again, this was NOT a matter of a few people attacking Hepler's viewpoint. It was many months' worth of stalking, harrassment, and criminally liable threats against her person. NOT the same thing at all as what you're implying.

it doesnt matter if you find it justifiable of what she did, nor does it matter if it was on the same grounds as those who maliciously threated or stalked her. it still going down that lvl even the smallest bit and thats all it takes. It just takes that tiny spark of fighting fire with fire. Again this sorta of thing is something you have to expect at times with internet involvement. Someones words or actions are always gonna ****** someone off ine one way or another. We always hope it never comes to this, but realisticly that goes against some of humans cruel nature.

[inappropriate comments removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 26 février 2012 - 03:17 .

[Klepz]

So happy to see so much support for Ms. Hepler. She has worked on some of my favorite parts of the Dragon Age games. She has all my best thoughts, and I'll be making my small contribution to Bullying Canada in support of her.

[Silfren]

[increasingly off-topic and combative comments removed]

Edit: An illustrative point on Hepler's utter lack of responsibility or guilt in this situation: if Hepler were at all guilty of provoking these attacks, then it stands to reason that her abusers would not be criminally liable.  The fact of the matter is, however, that they are.  What was done to her is legally classified as stalking and harrassment, both of which are illegal and punishable under the law.  Making rape and death threats is also illegal and punishable by law.  Were Hepler in any way to blame for bringing these things upon herself, then there would be no criminal liability on the part of her abusers.  But Hepler is as blameless legally as she is personally. 

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 26 février 2012 - 03:18 .

[Stanley Woo]

Silfren, seraphymon, please take your argument to private or to a different forum. It is becoming increasingly heated, off-topic, and unproductive.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Silfren wrote...

I'm willing to bet, also, that Hepler probably didn't expect anything she said to have an impact on the campaign against her one way or the other.  I'm not too clear on the timeline of what happened when, but I do know it went on for months.  I rather doubt that Hepler made her remarks while the attack was winding down, and thought to re-invigorate the flames.  

She may well wish she hadn't said anything, at this point, but when you've been subjected to a concerted personal attack for as long as she was, I suspect that when you finally do lash out, you're probably figuring it's going to continue to rage regardless of what you say, and whether you say anything at all.

Yes. As someone who's been on the receiving side of her fair share of bullying,  I agree.

seraphymon wrote...

Myabe, but shes not a child either. So acting like shes entirely 100% innoncent or the way she handled everything was appropriate i feel is kinda bad too. I merly stated my view on things, much like others have done the same, in support or in the same posistion of me, even if i was completely wrong, people  cant seem to let it go.

I rather think you missed my point. Possibly deliberately, in which case I can easily let a troll go.

[seraphymon]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 26 février 2012 - 04:12 .

[seraphymon]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I rather think you missed my point. Possibly deliberately, in which case I can easily let a troll go.

funny because im not trolling. I never intended to post more than just the first post of what i said in here.