1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Ricky Alvarez]

I'm sure this has been said a hundred times before, but I'm going to say it again, because if this were happening to me, I know I'd feel a lot better with numbers on my side: This has little to do with Jennifer Hepler.  All of this is a direct reaction to Dragon Age 2, and to a much lesser degree, the recent Mass Effect novel and what we know about Mass Effect 3.

BioWare has passionate fans, and the dev team should be proud of that.  Your fans are passionate in both their love and their hatred.  You have fans who love your games, and you have fans who were wildly disappointed by Dragon Age 2--and the reason they were disappointed is because Dragon Age: Origins was so incredible.  I think you'll agree that it's better to have passionate fans who are disappointed than to not have fans--for your games to simply go ignored instead of criticized.

Jennifer Hepler is the unfortunate recipient of this passionate hatred for Dragon Age 2 and other recent company decisions.  The sensible among us, of course, know that she is part of the BioWare team, and that no one person is responsible for any BioWare project.  They're all team efforts.  Hepler is simply an easy target, especially because of (false and out-of-context) rumors that have been spread about her--more out of ignorance than of malice.

Jennifer, if you're reading this, just hold on and ignore comments that aren't constructive.  You and I both know that all of this is going to instantly blow over when the next incredible BioWare game (hopefully Mass Effect 3) comes out.  "They"--a bunch of teenage boys--are, at the end of the day, just disappointed with Dragon Age 2, are looking for an outlet, and are participating in all of this silliness because they're bored and waiting for the next BioWare game.

[Rorschachinstein]

For whatever the 4chan and Reddit groups were doing, I'm trying to look at this from their point of view. Only maybe 15% of the people were actually trolls. The rest were DA:O loyalists, and Hardcore PC gamers.

[Ricky Alvarez]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 26 février 2012 - 06:08 .

[Realmzmaster]

The point is that those gamers who want an outlet are being down right rude, and disrespectful to those who do not agree with their point of view. A lot of times threads get lock is because participants are ignoring common civility to each other and start resorting to childish behavior with a feeling of entitlement. Constructive criticism is appreciated by the developers. Destructive criticism is not.

It boils down to respect. If you want respect to have to be willing to give it. That means accepting that other people may have an opinion different from yours and are just as passionate about their opinion.

I have been on these forums for a while and I have seen the viciousness thrown at Mike Laidlaw and other members of the team. It is unacceptable behavior. I do not care how pissed off you are about DragonAge 2 or any other Bioware game it does not give anyone the right to denigrate, name call or insult anyone else.
Bioware has a right to police its forums and to ban or chastise anyone who cannot act with civility and play by the rules. I do not care if you are 3 or 103, the terms of using this forum are posted. I applaud Bioware for having the guts to say what is and is not appropriate. If other forums do not that is a shame on them. I am a hardcore PC RPG player, and I know the difference between civil and uncivil. Maybe it is time for those other players who attacked Ms. Hepler to grow up. And I willing to bet that those attackers are not just teenage boys as some of you have suggested. If they are then they need to be set straight on what is and is not acceptable. There is not defense for this type of ignorance or malice. IMHO

[AstraDrakkar]

I just popped in to see if there was any recent news on a DA2 DLC or DA3 and see that this is still a hot topic with the readers, so i'll add my 2 cents.

Realmzmaster wrote...

The point is that those gamers who want an outlet are being down right rude, and disrespectful to those who do not agree with their point of view. A lot of times threads get lock is because participants are ignoring common civility to each other and start resorting to childish behavior with a feeling of entitlement. 

The internet is a reflection of how the real world operates these days. It is very sad and needs to change.

Modifié par AstraDrakkar, 26 février 2012 - 06:29 .

[magnuskn]

Just wanted to post my support of Ms. Hepler. Bullying is bad, on the internet and in the real world.

Modifié par magnuskn, 26 février 2012 - 08:35 .

[Jeff Driscoll]

I can only repeat what's been posted here so much already. An extreme example of trolling gone ape that resulted in significant real world pain, and a fine example of 'not respecting someone's work' equaling 'not respecting someone'. I play a lot of games akin to BioWare's style, and I've developed over time a sense that they are a reasonable and decent lot, which is only further reinforced by their response to this immaturity and hate. All too often managers would rather see a problem just disappear than confront it head on, in a mature fashion. Regardless of whether I can respect her work, and my disdain for the amount of my time her writing has monopolized because I can't put the game down, I can say that the effort must be extreme no matter the gender and no matter the experience involved. I certainly can respect that, can respect the skill required, and ultimately respect a group of people that come together with mutual respect. Plus, I really like the stuff they make. I just can't find the rage within myself that I see so often on the forums. I have enjoyed the Mass Effect and Dragon Age games immensely, and never thought the writing was particularly deficient in any way, including her contributions. Not many people get the chance to contribute to millions' of people's happiness, but based on the figures available, JH is certainly part of that club. Millions. Of people.

Thank you BioWare for standing up when it counted. Thank you, JH, for the writing. I think you can easily see its appreciated by so very many.

J

[SkittlesKat96]

A lot of the Jennifer Hepler hate came from a bunch of angry people from 4chan (/v/) who really have nothing better to do lol.

I try to think that the majority of people on the BSN don't act the way those people are acting...

[Skyblade012]

I definitely appreciate both Jennifer's work, and her position. I myself have been frustrated to no end by the amount of hand-eye coordination required by most games. It was actually part of what first turned me to RPGs, back in the good old days when they were almost all turn based and didn't require hand-eye coordination.

Thanks for standing up for your employees, BioWare. From what I've seen attributed to her, Hepler's work is golden, and I'm glad you stand with her. Too many companies would have left their employees alone to take the brunt of these assaults, or not have sided with their employees at all (publicly). So yay to you.

Modifié par Skyblade012, 26 février 2012 - 05:04 .

[wickedwizzard01]

I just popped in to see if there was any news on DA2 DLC or DA3
And then I reAd this

All i want to ad is this:
I do not care how dissappointed you are with DA2
Yess it did not live up to the awesomeness of DA:Origins
But attacking BW employees and threatening them at home or at work
Is unacceptable and can not be tolerated
Because the creation of a game is a team efford and not of a single person

[Elhanan]

I support both Jennifer Helper and Bioware in the handling of this matter. Nice to see some team loyalty in business for a change.

As for her work; outstanding, and she deserves to show it with pride. And from this fan: Thank you!

Personally, I hope EA bans the accounts of the offenders. Nuke 'em from orbit; only way to be sure!

[slimgrin]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 02:56 .

[Silfren]

slimgrin wrote...

Sorry but this kind of response doesn't help matters:

 "I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either."



I mean what the hell...It's not professional, and puts her near the same level of the trolls attacking her. Also, I have to say, everytime a Bioware rep comments on their games, the industry, or the nature of RPG's, it sounds like a canned PR response, usually downplaying what many gamers love about the genre, and justifying their blatant shift in targeting a new demographic. I'd rather not listen to what Bioware has to say anymore.

It wasn't meant to be professional.  It was a personal comment she made to a friend.

No, it does not put her near the same level as her abusers.  These were not mere trolls out for their jollies who decided to leave a smattering of personal insults.  It was a full-fledged campaign that went on for months, and included not only personal insults and sexist slurs, but also actual threats against both Hepler and her children.  What these people did was to engage in stalking, harrassment, and threads of bodily harm.  All of which is illegal.

There is absolutely no comparison between the many months' worth of emotional abuse and criminal threats made against Hepler, and her one retort toward them. 

[casadechrisso]

slimgrin wrote...

Sorry but this kind of response doesn't help matters:

 "I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either."



I mean what the hell...It's not professional, and puts her near the same level of the trolls attacking her. Also, I have to say, everytime a Bioware rep comments on their games, the industry, or the nature of RPG's, it sounds like a canned PR response, usually downplaying what many gamers love about the genre, and justifying their blatant shift in targeting a new demographic. I'd rather not listen to what Bioware has to say anymore.

That's nowhere near all the things she heard before and after. Also, I'd be jealous...

Seriously, I won't repeat all the things that were said to her, but it was all from sexism, racism, death wishes and thje lowest insults imaginable... what she said there about vaginas and game industry is on a total different level.

[slimgrin]

Silfren wrote...

It wasn't meant to be professional.  It was a personal comment she made to a friend. 

I'm not on Twitter so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't everyone see what you Tweet?

[casadechrisso]

Maybe she wasn't even aware, given that the account was just new. But even if, the people that comment was directed at threw the most sickening insults at her before and deserved a much harsher reply - Aaron Flynn's reply was more than deserved. I repeat, there's no excuse for what was said to her in the first place, and after such disgusting insults you expect a person to stay professional, as if game devs were some sort of robots?

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't have a problem with the fact she threw back insults, rather the fact she called EVERYONE who disliked her writing a homophobe and sexist.

[Megaton_Hope]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 02:58 .

[casadechrisso]

Wow, just wow... go on blaming the victim, but maybe read the twitter messages too and look how those things came up that you throw back at her now. I don't see any point in arguing about this anymore, the fact alone that people don't see the line there sickens me enough. Have fun.

[Silfren]

slimgrin wrote...

Silfren wrote...

It wasn't meant to be professional.  It was a personal comment she made to a friend.

There are some jobs, and some
circumstances, that warrant this sort of always-on intense scrutiny of
what a person says.  High-level politicians, for instance.  But that ain't Hepler.  Cut the woman a break for
responding in a human way to all the abuse she was being put through.

I'm not on Twitter so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't everyone see what you Tweet?

Neverthless, it was not an official statement from Hepler from her position as a Bioware employee.  Even so, I personally don't scrutinize what just anyone says in order to determine whether they're always professional, all the time.  I figure everyone deserves the opportunity to go off-the-clock, as it were, on occasion.  Also, I do take into account when someone's finally lashing out in self-defense against months' worth of concerted abuse, so I don't really feel the need to go "ZOMG UNPROFESSIONAL!" when something like this happens. 

There are some jobs, and some circumstances, that warrant this sort of always-on intense scrutiny of what a person says.  High-level politicians, for instance.  But that ain't Hepler.  Cut the woman a break for responding in a human way to all the abuse she was being put through.

It was a comment made to a friend after MOTNHS OF ABUSE.  Why are you ignoring or minimizing what she was put through, and making it out that her single response, made not to her abusers, but as a remark to a friend, is equal to the criminal behavior of the men who were stalking and threatening her?

Even if her comment was unprofessional, it is hardly the more important detail of this whole affair.  Drawing attention to it again and again and again only serves to suggest that it is either equal to, or worse, more important, than the rest of the story.  The most important thing to focus on here is that she was harrassmend and threatened for months on end.  This included receiving calls to her home phone, which all but guarantees that people had tracked down her address and were prepared to use it in their assault.

Modifié par Silfren, 26 février 2012 - 07:15 .

[Megaton_Hope]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 02:59 .

[casadechrisso]

Her statements in that 6 year old interview? Of course justified... what's wrong about sharing the personal opinion that combat can be tiresome and a skip-button could be implemented? Does that really deserve that much hate? I would've loved a skip button in DA2 because combat was horribly annoying in that game. Bioware is about stories, many people enjoy the games for the stories and why not give THOSE FEW an option? You can still shoot up whatever you want. But if you're looking for good gombat, Bioware was never the best adress for that.

So no, the interview was harmless, there is nothing wrong with it. I might not agree, but it was about an OPTION. Sheesh...

[Silfren]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:00 .

[alex90c]

i can't believe 2 pages worth of posts in this thread are purely moderator interactions. seriously, can people not attack bioware staff just for one thread?

ONE THREAD?

*mumbles to himself*

[Costin_Razvan]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:01 .