1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

Megaton_Hope wrote...


Just for the record, what annoys me more than her characterization of "hardcore gamers" as pathetic lowlife virgins

I must've missed something.  If you're referring to the remark Hepler made recently about her attackers being virgins...it wasn't directed at hardcore gamers, but at the people attacking here.  There's a difference, and a huge one.

[Megaton_Hope]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:01 .

[slimgrin]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:02 .

[Megaton_Hope]

[off-topic and increasingly insulting post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:02 .

[casadechrisso]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:03 .

[casadechrisso]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:03 .

[Silfren]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

]If she hadn't subsequently been harassed by internet hooligans, would you feel that what she says above is justified, or does victimization change your system of ethics? Because at the time she made these statements, none of the subsequent harassment had occurred. My understanding is that it's when this material was discovered and shared (in screencapture format) by a Redditor that things blew up into what has happened since.

Yes, I would.  I'm one of those not-so-hardcore gamers.  I love story, and I have devoted an inordinate amount of time to playing Dragon Age...for its story.  I'm no less a fan of the game than you or anyone else who qualifies as a hardcore gamer.  My money's just as good for Bioware as is yours.  But I do hate slogging through combat over and over and over again, when it is not my favorite part of the game.  And from what others have said in this and other threads, I assure you, we're a measurable percentage of Bioware's fans.  Hardcore gamers don't get to keep pretending that there aren't a good many...er...softcore fans who enjoy games just as much as they do, but for entirely different reasons.  

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Probably the best thing for everyone, in the long term, would be for Hepler to make a very public, carefully planned statement clarifying her initial remarks without the word "vagina" in it, for EA/Bioware to continue their unequivocal support, and for everyone to go on with their lives, all forgiven.

This united front business...not so much. Time is of large supply and short demand on the internet; as long as anybody cares it will keep coming up in some form.

Why should Hepler have to clarify?  I think what she said was pretty clear and didn't need much clarification.  Unless you mean the political form of clarification, in which you want her to backtrack and take back everything she said.  But why should she have to do that?  

It should be enough that Hepler was going to annoy some people...but that she was going to strike a chord with others.  I didn't see Hepler say that she spoke for ALL of any one group.  She said that she felt she represented some.  The only one equating that with a blanket whole-sale generalization that Hepler speaks for all women, is you.  

Bioware's unequivocal support is based on the fact that Hepler was unduly harrassed, threatened, and stalked.  Whatever she might have said to make some bottomfeeders feel justified in going after her is irrelevant.  Bioware isn't supporting her because of what she said, but because of the abuse she was subjected to?  Why should they not offer unequivocal support for that?  

[Realmzmaster]

I find it funny that people are saying that Ms. Hepler insulted hardcore gamers. I read her comments there is nothing in it insulting hardcore gamers. Also Ms. Hepler was not speaking for all women. She was speaking about women in her position. Ms. Hepler gave that opinion six years ago.
She tweet her one comment to a friend. If she is like some of the people I know (who just got an account) on Facebook or Twitter they do not know the ends and outs of the system they are using. Ms. Hepler probably meant for her comment to be private since she was sending it to a friend. She may have accidentally broadcast it to the world.
Still to me it does not matter. The comment was spot on give the sexist, rude, denigrating comments made to Ms. Hepler before and after the comment.
Some of the posters are taking one comment made by Ms. Hepler and saying it equals all of the insults and threats hurl at her for months. I think Ms. Hepler comment hit the mark about a lot of her abusers.

I am also tried of this hardcore cRPG gamer stuff. My definition of hardcore cRPG gamer is most definitely not the same as some of you on this forum. If you have read my posts in the different threads you know what I think a hardcore cRPG gamers is. DAO is not hardcore cRPG gaming, neither is Skyrim or Witcher 1 and 2. I am looking at true old school cRPG starting with Wizardry. Good old fashion D & D (or Tunnels and trolls, Runequest, GURPS and Fantasy Trip) mechanics.

I think it is wonderful that other gamers want to play Bioware games for the story. I see nothing wrong with that. It is not like cRPGs before did not have AutoCombat buttons. I knew the button was available I simply choose not to use it. I did not begrudge the designer for putting it in.
I was playing a single player cRPG. How I played did not affect anyone else.
In fact after playing a rather difficult battle and saving the results I would go back to an old save just to see how well AutoCombat in the game worked. (The system analyst likes to see how other programmers work). The AutoCombat did surprising well showing me things I had overlooked.

So having a skip button or AutoCombat button does not bother me. I think people give in to fear. Fear that the game will not be what they want. Well, I do not fear because most cRPGs made now are not what I want. I accept the fact that games evolve and at times radical change is necessary.

Ms. Hepler simply voiced her opinion. She did not and does not deserve the abuse and threats that was heaped on her for months over a video game. I fully support her. I again applaud Bioware/EA for fully supporting their employee not just in word but in deed.

[Megaton_Hope]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:06 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Really?  I'm wary of this, because I've seen a lot of the complaints about Origins and DA2 basically whining that Bioware dared to be inclusive.  I'm very skeptical that Hepler called people homophobes and sexists for JUST disliking her writing.

Couldn't possibly be that too many people frame their dislike within homophobic and sexist assumptions, could it?

It was a twitter message, wish I had screenshotted it really. Obviously it was a response to someone but it was a broad statement, and yes I was offended by that message. Hell before I found out about this mess I didn't even care about Hepler or know she had written Anders in DA2 ( I blamed and still blame Gaider for the bad stuff in the DA2 btw, but that's another discussion ).

I didn't see the Twitter message, but would it be far-fetched to believe her comment wasn't aimed at the people who dislike her writing, but the people who were attacking her due to some of her characters being gay (and let's not forget that the reddit 'screenshots' that set this off were digitally altered to specifically include homosexual content she had no part in purely to stir up those kinds of attacks)?

Edit: (Fixed, thanks mods )

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 27 février 2012 - 01:03 .

[Silfren]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:07 .

[Megaton_Hope]

I was getting a lot of "the only one _____ is you" and "_______ is idiotic" comments, and I felt I was being pretty diplomatic about the whole thing, all things considered. Don't like to draw any generalizations that would include myself.

[seraphymon]

Silfren wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Sorry but this kind of response doesn't help matters:

 "I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either."



I mean what the hell...It's not professional, and puts her near the same level of the trolls attacking her. Also, I have to say, everytime a Bioware rep comments on their games, the industry, or the nature of RPG's, it sounds like a canned PR response, usually downplaying what many gamers love about the genre, and justifying their blatant shift in targeting a new demographic. I'd rather not listen to what Bioware has to say anymore.

It wasn't meant to be professional.  It was a personal comment she made to a friend.

No, it does not put her near the same level as her abusers.  These were not mere trolls out for their jollies who decided to leave a smattering of personal insults.  It was a full-fledged campaign that went on for months, and included not only personal insults and sexist slurs, but also actual threats against both Hepler and her children.  What these people did was to engage in stalking, harrassment, and threads of bodily harm.  All of which is illegal.

There is absolutely no comparison between the many months' worth of emotional abuse and criminal threats made against Hepler, and her one retort toward them. 

peronsal but again on the internet that everyone can see, so it isnt personal now is it? That comment based on its words covers alot of ground so it can be interpreted to many others who are innocent.

again when you have higher expecatations out of someone, it makes what they do alot more dissapointing, you cannot jusge just by a point by point scale on just whats been said. What she said has alot more impact of dissapointment, by lowering herself. There is just no excuse for it.

[Mecha Tengu]

[insulting post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:08 .

[Silfren]

[increasingly heated post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:09 .

[Stanley Woo]

Off-topic, combative, and somewhat insulting posts removed.

Silfren, I'm not going to ask you again to stop arguing around and around with those who disagree with you in this thread.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 03:10 .

[Silfren]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Off-topic, combative, and somewhat insulting posts removed.

Silfren, I'm not going to ask you again to stop arguing around and around with those who disagree with you in this thread.

I fail to see how asking why Hepler's response to her abusers is getting more attention from a lot of people than the abuse itself is combative, or insulting.  Nor was there anything off-topic in the post, unless you've only now decided that the entire discussion about such, which has gone on for pages, is suddenly off-topic.  But I'll comply.

Ah, and now I see that all those pages have now--only now--been removed.  Very well.

Modifié par Silfren, 27 février 2012 - 03:19 .

[Megaton_Hope]

Kind of at a loss as to why so many of my posts were redacted.

[Stanley Woo]

Silfren wrote...

I fail to see how asking why Hepler's response to her abusers is getting more attention from a lot of people than the abuse itself is combative, or insulting.  Nor was there anything off-topic in the post, unless you've only now decided that the entire discussion about such, which has gone on for pages, is suddenly off-topic.  But I'll comply.

Ah, and now I see that all those pages have now--only now--been removed.  Very well.

The "combative and insulting post" comment was separate from the "please stop fighting with people again, Silfren" comment. Sorry for the confusion.

[Mecha Tengu]

Stanley Woo on a rampage tonight

real terror

[Mecha Tengu]

[insulting post removed. Strike 2, Mecha Tengu.]

?

When product designers treat their customers with disdain and wish they were "higher up" it IS an insult to the community and of course there will be public backlash

Modifié par Mecha Tengu, 27 février 2012 - 04:53 .

[Rorschachinstein]

[I don't think so]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2012 - 06:18 .

[Briiel]

Ok , Kudos to Bioware for taking a stand for one of it's employee's . For taking a stand against bullying.

For those of you arguing your cases , Please Just agree to disagree. You guy's could argue this til the cows come home. Once an opinion is made a person is usually hard pressed not to change it. Wise man once told me that opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one and they all stink. Meaning your opinion is yours not someone else's. So stop with all the "I'm right , you're wrong " stuff and address the real situation here. Bullying.

Bullying is never OK. Being hurtful and mean is NOT OK. No matter if it's being directed at Hepler or now the ones that started the attacks. Being hateful isn't a correct response to anyone.Eye for an Eye . Tooth for a Tooth . Is never a correct way to go.
If you want to criticize about a game or don't agree with a person. Take a few deep breaths and calm yourself before you lash out.

For those saying that Bioware doesn't listen.....If they don't where did the forums come from ?? There are so many places you can voice your opinions, that you can't say that "Nobody listens" . They just respond how they see it. (look up above about opinions) They can't respond to every fan or disgruntled fan for every game they make. That would be hard for anyone to do .

Happy Gaming!

[Ajirasan]

These kind of attacks doesn't happen without a reason. I don't blame Jennifer Helper but something is wrong. Bioware started to crumble.

[Elhanan]

Ajirasan wrote...

These kind of attacks doesn't happen without a reason. I don't blame Jennifer Helper but something is wrong. Bioware started to crumble.

Hatred, arrogance, bias, ignorance are all possible reasons for the attack; not good ones evidently. And something is wrong, as these kind of posters are not that uncommon anymore.

But I hold to the hope that we as the Community might see less of this bunch due to EA bans. Perhaps they should have chosen the option to avoid combat....

Modifié par Elhanan, 27 février 2012 - 04:26 .