1876 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

hallfing wrote...

esper wrote...

As for the first point, by implying that the bullies has a side that bioware should consider you are automatically siding with them (even if you don't mean too which you proberly don't but that is how it is coming off). Basically everything constructive those who bully Jennifer wanted to say was negated the moment they decided to act the way they did. There is not two side to the argument when the one side behave the way those bullies are behaving.

Console gamers would skip features too if they could, believe you me. And we already do; fast travel in Skyrim, skipping dialog in bioware games... and so fort. It would simply be a matter of making the killallhostiles - function which the pc can do to something everybody can acces if they want to.

doesn't matter if they implement those things into console... we are only talking about minority of the people that will skip things in that manner... and as for skipping dialogue ~_~" no that's not skipping it at all when you already know what it is or you don't care enough about the game to want to know what it is, in which case it's skipping the game effectively... see?

Skipping dialog is skipping gameplay. Both thing is skipping the game, but if people want to do so, so what?

[seraphymon]

CarpeOmnios wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

and there is no excuse for Jennifers insult either. This isnt about a point system and whose right or wrong, everyone is to blame in some sort of fashion. justified or not. as for the argument goes it is not one sided. and you cant have your cake and eat it too, like you always want to do stanley. You want to make the best games possible, so inevitably you are going to drawn in fans like these, like it or not. They are customers just like any others.

As for all your skip gameplay points, that is a bit different i feel. Those are common yes, but that is to skip usually when farming stuff, walkthroughs im sorry doesnt count. it isnt to really skip but as a help. Now when i usually skip or see people skip it is only "after" a person has been through it before. such as an mmo or playing through a game or scenario multiple times. Much like skipping cutscenes. When we know what is gonna be said, or when we die iin a fight, and have to suffer through the cutscene again.

The point, you're missing it.

The point is not that Jennifer said something "insulting" (which is BS, by the way, it was nothing compared to what those ****s said to her). The point is she was subjected to a torrent of abuse, not only insults to her writing but personal comments which are completely uncalled for and totally irrelevant. And not only that. There have been people threatening her, threatening her family, telling her they hope she 'commits suicide' and calling her at her home.

There is absolutely nothing that she could say that would ever make that kind of behaviour acceptable. That is utterly reprehensible.

There is NOTHING that justifies it. Nothing. And you saying 'there is no excuse' for what she said, well, frankly that is BS. Absolute BS.

im very aware of the point. but this is all revelant her actions as well as the offedersn. Again people seems to miss the point of her insults all because they judge it on a point by point scale of the intensity of insults. Of course hers is not based on that. That isnt the point. More is expected of her which makes the insult alot more worse than it seems. That doesnt justify what she has recieved that is correct, but that is the reason why, its expected, and when you know its gonna come, then you have to take the consequences for every action, even if you dont deserve it.

theres always 2 sides to it. She even knew she was gonna get people angry when she first said her idea, didnt think it would get that bad, but thats just what happened, and she coulda found better ways to handle it, but she resorted to an insult, however low it maybe, its gonna offend people.

[J4N3_M3]

esper wrote...

Skipping dialog is skipping gameplay. Both thing is skipping the game, but if people want to do so, so what?

the problem is that the majority of people feels other people's business is their own business even when it's not. The concept of live and let live exists in theory only. Sadly. 

[hallfing]

esper wrote...

hallfing wrote...

esper wrote...

As
for the first point, by implying that the bullies has a side that
bioware should consider you are automatically siding with them (even if
you don't mean too which you proberly don't but that is how it is coming
off). Basically everything constructive those who bully Jennifer wanted
to say was negated the moment they decided to act the way they did.
There is not two side to the argument when the one side behave the way
those bullies are behaving.

Console gamers would skip features
too if they could, believe you me. And we already do; fast travel in
Skyrim, skipping dialog in bioware games... and so fort. It would simply
be a matter of making the killallhostiles - function which the pc can
do to something everybody can acces if they want to.

doesn't
matter if they implement those things into console... we are only
talking about minority of the people that will skip things in that
manner... and as for skipping dialogue ~_~" no that's not skipping it at
all when you already know what it is or you don't care enough about the
game to want to know what it is, in which case it's skipping the game
effectively... see?

Skipping dialog is skipping gameplay. Both thing is skipping the game, but if people want to do so, so what?

Point.... missing it.

There is no "so what?" scenario here... if you want to skip stuff then it is your decision to do so and nobody can do anything to change and anybody that tries will not succeed either...

But when you put it out there in an interview you will definitely get feedback regarding your opinions which like I stated earlier was/has been taken too seriously by some people, regardless of which I still have to disagree on skipping stuff BUT I DIDN'T GO AROUND SAYING YOU MUST NOT SKIP IT OR I WILL FIND WHERE YOU LIVE AND MAKE YOU PLAY IT ALL OVER AGAIN...

But from that perspective you're not famous and neither are you responsible for certain elements of a certain game which a bunch of people (probably) more than a bunch disagree and hence the whole arguement....

J4N3_M3 wrote...

esper wrote...

Skipping dialog is skipping gameplay. Both thing is skipping the game, but if people want to do so, so what?

the problem is that the majority of people feels other people's business is their own business even when it's not. The concept of live and let live exists in theory only. Sadly. 

So, accoding to you if you "want to skip things" and you said that openly and I said "OK but I ain't skipping squat" then I've become irrationaly pokey about your business?

How so? please explain

[K_Tabris]

I'm so glad to see Bioware supporting their employee like this. The BSN has always been full of colorful characters that love to WHINE, and their attacks against one of the best writers (imo) has taken a ridiculous turn.

I can't believe some people can be so inhumane and downright evil.

Anyway, I'm just posting to show my support for Ms. Hepler. I guess she wrote Bethany, Anders and much of the dwarven parts of the story. Very well written, enjoyable, (or in the case of Anders, delightfully frustrating) parts of the game. Obviously, an invaluable part of the Dragon Age writing team. I hope things get better for her, and that people stop being such worthless trash about the whole thing.

[errant_knight]

I simply can't believe the way people are behaving. There's no excuse. Just none.

[esper]

@Hafling to avoid pyramid quotes I am just going to talk to you.
She put it in her interview six years ago. Six years late responses frankly doesn't count as Jennifer could have changed her opinion a thousand time in the mean time. Also it was taken out of context and purposely made to look a lot more dramtic than it was.

Aso she is proveavbley not the only one who would like such a feature, hence he popularity of the kill all hostiles for pc (and other large commands which simply skips huge part of the game). Also if you want to respond, respond like Fast Jimmy does in some of the game play thread, now that is a good constructive respond which is useable even if I personally disagree with him/her.

J4N3 was quoting me, not you when I was arguing about what does such a feature hurt if it was implemented? None of us ever said that you was one of the: 'OMG no the mere exsitance of such a feature ruins my game even if I won't use it. That other might use it and enjoy it offends me!' - persons
Believe it or not those people do exist.

[Aargh12]

[soapbox removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 28 février 2012 - 05:27 .

[esper]

Aargh12 wrote...

The ability to skip combat should only based on another skill - through conversations or sneaking,etc. It shouldn't be done with magic button, cause it makes a movie from a video game. And I do understand why gamers decided to throw some trash at Jennifer Hepler. They are very passionate about that kind of thing.
I don't support them, nor do I support Jennifers statement about vagina. That was tottaly unprofessional of her, and the fact that trolls were accusing her didn't justify this.

I do however believe, that Bioware's writing weakend after she joined, but I wouldn't call her cancer. That's just too extreme.

And to all feminists talking BS about straight male gamers stereotype - last time I heard, Deus Ex HR and Uncharted (to name a few) were written by women. I haven't really heard anything about them being "trolled" on the Internet.

Being passionate abput games, does not excuse such a behaviour. There is nothing, and let me repeat: Nothing understandable about it. I am passionate about games, I discuss it civil. What those gamers who threw trash at Jennifer has accompliced is exactly two thing. Shown bioware that their fanbase is indeed immature and in need off adverstisement such as 'awesome bottom' because clearly grown up people don't behave like that and proven about every nerd stereotype you meet out there amongst none gamers.

Calling people cancer is not just too extreme, it is extremely offensive towards the people aimed at and the people who actully have the sickness.

Nobody would threathen a man with miscarrige and very few would target a man's children either or threathen them with rape, and since very few (if none) girls would say such a thing, it is sexistic.

[hallfing]

esper wrote...

@Hafling to avoid pyramid quotes I am just going to talk to you.
She put it in her interview six years ago. Six years late responses frankly doesn't count as Jennifer could have changed her opinion a thousand time in the mean time. Also it was taken out of context and purposely made to look a lot more dramtic than it was.

Aso she is proveavbley not the only one who would like such a feature, hence he popularity of the kill all hostiles for pc (and other large commands which simply skips huge part of the game). Also if you want to respond, respond like Fast Jimmy does in some of the game play thread, now that is a good constructive respond which is useable even if I personally disagree with him/her.

J4N3 was quoting me, not you when I was arguing about what does such a feature hurt if it was implemented? None of us ever said that you was one of the: 'OMG no the mere exsitance of such a feature ruins my game even if I won't use it. That other might use it and enjoy it offends me!' - persons
Believe it or not those people do exist.

I know that the interview is OOOOOLD... but it was brought into light recently again on Kotaku because of the whole Twitter Fiasco and people there started replying to it in a manner that made me curious as to whether there'd be more information on BSN itself so I clicked on the link that was provided there and came to this thread and read some of the posts and knew this was another classic reddit incident... So even though she may or may not have chnaged her opinions, it was an official interview and her opinion was made. I didn't care for it enough when I saw it on Feb 20th but when I saw it today it had a crap ton of flaming replies from kotaku guys and BW fans alike so I just came here to show support for the cause as well while stating that an arguement cannot be one sided NEVER!! so bioware needs to find common ground even with these annoying fans because to be honest TROLLS SPREAD LIKE WILD FIRE...

http://kotaku.com/58...=jenniferhepler

But nonetheless I wanted to give my opinion as well, which I did and I also made it clear I have no hate for the writer as well even though I like David's Anders much more tolerable than DA2 anders lol.

J4N3 may have quoted you but your reply was aimed at me and that in itself made JN43's quote indirectly aimed at me and anyone else you might have replied with that post to...

Modifié par hallfing, 28 février 2012 - 03:20 .

[Silfren]

hallfing wrote...

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY "SKIP" GAMEPLAY!

If that many people actually did feel this way, mods such as "Skip the Fade" or "Less Tedious Fade" wouldn't be half so wildly popular as they are.

Just sayin'.

[esper]

Bioware doens't need to find common ground with people like that. There is not two sides of that coin. What they are doing is wrong. Regardless of what she has and has not said about gameplay.

[hallfing]

esper wrote...

Bioware doens't need to find common ground
with people like that. There is not two sides of that coin. What they
are doing is wrong. Regardless of what she has and has not said about
gameplay.

Bioware doesn't need to find common ground because they hated on her OMG you didn't understand me again... they need to do so because TROLLING EXISTS TO SPREAD IT DOES NOT STOP AND IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T CARE FOR EITHER PARTY... HOW DO YOU THINK THE WHOLE DAY1 DLC GOT BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION EVEN THOUGHT IT WAS A PROMISED PERK FOR CE BUYERS FROM DAY1 IN THE FORM OF EXTRA CHAR AND MISSION??? One leaked post lead to a video on youtube regarding the DLC and that lead to 3 different posts the very next day on 3 diffrent gaming sites that lead to 2 more posts and 4 new posts with excessive whining from the earlier sites and the later ones ~_~" which lead to a forbes article "tis the pinnacle of proportion blowing"

[off-topic comments removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 28 février 2012 - 05:29 .

[Silfren]

seraphymon wrote...

They are customers just like any others.

Ha.  If it were possible to track down and prosecute these "fans" of Bioware who thought it acceptable to stalk, threaten, and harrass her, I'd dearly love to try to see any one of them try to use the "I'm a CUSTOMER!  I HAVE RIGHTS!" excuse, just to see how quickly they'd be laughed down.

[Russalka]

Why would they bother to try to discuss anything with people who are clearly not interested in discussion?

[Raphael diSanto]

[off-topic comments removed]

I love Hepler's work, on both the DA franchise and on TOR. The smuggler story on TOR has some of the funniest, best written dialogue ever, with scenes that are pure Han Solo/Indiana Jones/action adventure. in a way that none of the other class stories are.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 28 février 2012 - 05:30 .

[SoddingMuses]

hallfing wrote...

Silfren wrote...

hallfing wrote...

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY "SKIP" GAMEPLAY!

If that many people actually did feel this way, mods such as "Skip the Fade" or "Less Tedious Fade" wouldn't be half so wildly popular as they are.

Just sayin'.

AND YET I USED NONE OF THEM T_T...  JUST SAYIN.

Neither do I.

Wait...do we get a candy bar or something for this?  Why no we get enjoyment from playing the game.  If someone finds it more fun and enjoyable to watch all the plot of a game a the movie then kudos to them.  I'm pretty sure you will still be able to play the game as intended no matter what you can/can't skip.   

That being sad maybe you should switch threads to talk about that.  This is about Supporting Hepler, not the God Button.  No matter how you twist things the attacks on Jennifer are wrong and should not be tolerated.  All businesses have the right to refuse to deal with abusive customers.  Something that is dying out with all the "the customer is always right" junk that places like to push.  Bioware can't dictate who gets their games sadly but they can refuse to engage the abusers or others that are taking offensive stances about matter.  You can't please every customer and that is something every business has to remember, hence them saying they don't need those customers who would terrorize their workers.

On a side note, hugs to the mods in here for doing a great job and I hope one of them will give Jennifer a hug to let her know not all fans are heartless buggers with abusive attitudes of entitlement.  

[Silfren]

Now, a little more seriously...

seraphymon wrote...

As for all your skip gameplay points, that is a bit different i feel. Those are common yes, but that is to skip usually when farming stuff, walkthroughs im sorry doesnt count. it isnt to really skip but as a help. Now when i usually skip or see people skip it is only "after" a person has been through it before. such as an mmo or playing through a game or scenario multiple times. Much like skipping cutscenes. When we know what is gonna be said, or when we die iin a fight, and have to suffer through the cutscene again.

These all involve speeding things up.  Which is precisely what Hepler was referring to with a fast-forward button.  I can't stand puzzles that involve nothing more than trial-and-error, such as the tile puzzle in the Urn quest in Origins.  Puzzles of that nature are little more than timesinks as far as I'm concerned.  Anything that requires me to take notes in order to keep track is a recipe for migraine-inducing frustration.  Going online for the solution is absolutely a "skip button," or a "fast-forward" button insofar as it can literally reduce the time it takes me to get past the puzzle by several hours. 

The same goes for Walkthroughs.  Not a true skip, perhaps, but many players resort to them to save time and frustration. 

What, exactly, is the difference between hitting a button that skips a cutscene, and hitting a button that skips combat?  Yes, many people only do that when they're already familiar with how a scene goes.  So what?  Why is it okay for people to skip a cutscene they've already seen once or several times, but the idea of skipping combat brings about such umbrage?  Literally the only difference here is that one involves a cutscene, and the other combat.  Why is one okay to skip but not the other?

I wonder why people adamantly against the concept don't already raise holy hell that there's already a "killlallhostiles" cheat feature.

[Littlegemma]

Jennifer is a brave and talented woman and has my support.

Please keep up the good work Bioware.

[Raphael diSanto]

Wait, didn't everyone already rage about the waves of spawning enemies in DA2? Wouldn't those same people want a skip combat button in order to skip them?

[esper]

hallfing wrote...

esper wrote...

Bioware doens't need to find common ground
with people like that. There is not two sides of that coin. What they
are doing is wrong. Regardless of what she has and has not said about
gameplay.

Bioware doesn't need to find common ground because they hated on her OMG you didn't understand me again... they need to do so because TROLLING EXISTS TO SPREAD IT DOES NOT STOP AND IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T CARE FOR EITHER PARTY... HOW DO YOU THINK THE WHOLE DAY1 DLC GOT BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION EVEN THOUGHT IT WAS A PROMISED PERK FOR CE BUYERS FROM DAY1 IN THE FORM OF EXTRA CHAR AND MISSION??? One leaked post lead to a video on youtube regarding the DLC and that lead to 3 different posts the very next day on 3 diffrent gaming sites that lead to 2 more posts and 4 new posts with excessive whining from the earlier sites and the later ones ~_~" which lead to a forbes article "tis the pinnacle of proportion blowing"

Silfren wrote...

hallfing wrote...

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY "SKIP" GAMEPLAY!

If that many people actually did feel this way, mods such as "Skip the Fade" or "Less Tedious Fade" wouldn't be half so wildly popular as they are.

Just sayin'.

AND YET I USED NONE OF THEM T_T...  JUST SAYIN.

Bioware is hated right now, and there is nothing they can do about it. This is just a symptom and bioware reacted the only way they could. You cannot find common ground with internet trolls because they will just find another thing to complain about.


But the only thing that Bioware can do is keep making game and just hope that the sensible of us won't be affected. And if we are, well the ones paying the price is ulitmately us since we won't get the games we enjoy anymore.

[Mecha Tengu]

[disrespectful post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 28 février 2012 - 05:33 .

[hallfing]

esper wrote...

hallfing wrote...

esper wrote...

Bioware doens't need to find common ground
with people like that. There is not two sides of that coin. What they
are doing is wrong. Regardless of what she has and has not said about
gameplay.

Bioware doesn't need to find common ground because they hated on her OMG you didn't understand me again... they need to do so because TROLLING EXISTS TO SPREAD IT DOES NOT STOP AND IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T CARE FOR EITHER PARTY... HOW DO YOU THINK THE WHOLE DAY1 DLC GOT BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION EVEN THOUGHT IT WAS A PROMISED PERK FOR CE BUYERS FROM DAY1 IN THE FORM OF EXTRA CHAR AND MISSION??? One leaked post lead to a video on youtube regarding the DLC and that lead to 3 different posts the very next day on 3 diffrent gaming sites that lead to 2 more posts and 4 new posts with excessive whining from the earlier sites and the later ones ~_~" which lead to a forbes article "tis the pinnacle of proportion blowing"

Silfren wrote...

hallfing wrote...

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY "SKIP" GAMEPLAY!

If that many people actually did feel this way, mods such as "Skip the Fade" or "Less Tedious Fade" wouldn't be half so wildly popular as they are.

Just sayin'.

AND YET I USED NONE OF THEM T_T...  JUST SAYIN.

Bioware is hated right now, and there is nothing they can do about it. This is just a symptom and bioware reacted the only way they could. You cannot find common ground with internet trolls because they will just find another thing to complain about.


But the only thing that Bioware can do is keep making game and just hope that the sensible of us won't be affected. And if we are, well the ones paying the price is ulitmately us since we won't get the games we enjoy anymore.

 I'll agree with you on that, but I hate the whole thing going on with Bioware from the past few days T_T... and I'm sorry If I made it look like I supported the pathetic offenders in any of my posts I didn't come here to annoy others I just want to put my opinion out there

[esper]

@Hafling. Well, after a storm comes a calm. The only thing we can hope is that in another decade or three people realize that the internet is not a place to do everything we want. Movement are beginning to show up.

And I understand your frustration, but bioware simply cannot give into this specific kind of bullying. It would just be wrong and reinforce the ones that act this way that if they behave like that they will get to destroy what the rest of us like.

[Silfren]

hallfing wrote...

esper wrote...

hallfing wrote...

esper wrote...

Bioware doens't need to find common ground
with people like that. There is not two sides of that coin. What they
are doing is wrong. Regardless of what she has and has not said about
gameplay.

Bioware doesn't need to find common ground because they hated on her OMG you didn't understand me again... they need to do so because TROLLING EXISTS TO SPREAD IT DOES NOT STOP AND IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T CARE FOR EITHER PARTY... HOW DO YOU THINK THE WHOLE DAY1 DLC GOT BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION EVEN THOUGHT IT WAS A PROMISED PERK FOR CE BUYERS FROM DAY1 IN THE FORM OF EXTRA CHAR AND MISSION??? One leaked post lead to a video on youtube regarding the DLC and that lead to 3 different posts the very next day on 3 diffrent gaming sites that lead to 2 more posts and 4 new posts with excessive whining from the earlier sites and the later ones ~_~" which lead to a forbes article "tis the pinnacle of proportion blowing"

Silfren wrote...

hallfing wrote...

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY "SKIP" GAMEPLAY!

If that many people actually did feel this way, mods such as "Skip the Fade" or "Less Tedious Fade" wouldn't be half so wildly popular as they are.

Just sayin'.

AND YET I USED NONE OF THEM T_T...  JUST SAYIN.

Bioware is hated right now, and there is nothing they can do about it. This is just a symptom and bioware reacted the only way they could. You cannot find common ground with internet trolls because they will just find another thing to complain about.


But the only thing that Bioware can do is keep making game and just hope that the sensible of us won't be affected. And if we are, well the ones paying the price is ulitmately us since we won't get the games we enjoy anymore.

 I'll agree with you on that, but I hate the whole thing going on with Bioware from the past few days T_T... and I'm sorry If I made it look like I supported the pathetic offenders in any of my posts I didn't come here to annoy others I just want to put my opinion out there

You didn't think that the official Bioware thread for supporing Hepler would be an inappropriate place to bring up finding common ground with her abusers on the basis that they had legitimate gripes?  There are several other available threads for that, I'm fairly sure.