1876 réponses à ce sujet

[slashthedragon]

I finally read JH's original interview. Hmmm....can't say I like what she implied about women. It almost came off as though women are usually housewives and mothers. I am neither and don't want to be either.

Modifié par slashthedragon, 29 mars 2012 - 03:29 .

[SummerSolstice]

I have read an article that featured clips of Jennifer interview and such. Those comment said about her were very immature but the comment she said back was immature as well. I don't blame her. Cause well sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. That and well all I have to say is this. Who here hasn't gotten sick of the being sucked into the fade in dragon age origins? Who here hasn't tried the mood skip the fade? I have it. Why is because simply it was a big curve ball that you know have to deal with this and run around traveling back and forth to find and get everything. This bothered me to know end. So I will admit I downloaded the mod. It is nice. Cause I get right back to what I was doing which was killing things and fighting my way back through the tower. This is related to what Jennifer said about a forward button. I'm not really for it. But for something’s in a video game I wish there was. Cause as much as I LOVE killing and ripping things in two. Some parts in a video game are like WTF... Really your making me does this before I can do this and it’s not even fun. I have been playing video games since I was 6 or 7. Whenever the first Nintendo came out.

Now as a gamer I'm not offended by what she suggested. Cause as I have asked before who here hasn't tired or downloaded skip the fade cause they felt it was pointless part to game. Yeah sure there was killing. But, I was like really I have to travel back and forth to get everything!? Pointless.

Modifié par SummerSolstice, 29 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[DBZMagus]

Just a warning to everyone else. Be careful what you say here. I was banned for 3 days for my comment, despite not breaking any of the established rules. I contacted EA and now I can post again, but I'm not sure if that was EA's doing or the ban just expired because I was never notified of any ban until I would try to log into the site. The mods here are very open with the fact that they can and will ban people for any reason or even no reason at all as they see fit, so if you choose to disagree with them keep in mind they may resort to cutting off your mic. The user named Silfren also attacked me via PM and then blocked my account so I could not reply to her messages. Incredibly cowardly tactics.

My post was not meant to defend anyone for immature personal attacks on Hepler. Obviously those people are in the wrong, and if they threatened her she should have contacted the police and made her account private. However, there is some real hypocrisy here. I stand by my assertion that her retorts and those of Flynn were just as immature. You can't fling feces back and still claim the moral high ground. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

Modifié par DBZMagus, 29 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[slashthedragon]

DBZMagus wrote...

Just a warning to everyone else. Be careful what you say here. I was banned for 3 days for my comment, despite not breaking any of the established rules. I contacted EA and now I can post again, but I'm not sure if that was EA's doing or the ban just expired because I was never notified of any ban until I would try to log into the site. The mods here are very open with the fact that they can and will ban people for any reason or even no reason at all as they see fit, so if you choose to disagree with them keep in mind they may resort to cutting off your mic. The user named Silfren also attacked me via PM and then blocked my account so I could not reply to her messages. Incredibly cowardly tactics.

My post was not meant to defend anyone for immature personal attacks on Hepler. Obviously those people are in the wrong, and if they threatened her she should have contacted the police and made her account private. However, there is some real hypocrisy here. I stand by my assertion that her retorts and those of Flynn were just as immature. You can't fling feces back and still claim the moral high ground. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

I would have liked to have seen this discussed in a civil manner.  After reading the interview and comments on other sites, there are many things JH said that I take issue/disagree with. 
There can't now be an intellectual discussion because people decided it was better to act juvenile than respond with valid criticisms in a mature manner.
I don't think the whole discussion should just be ended, especially if BW intends to implement things that JH has suggested, whether it be skipping combat or "making games easier for women because we probably have babies to take care of and houses to clean".  The discussion should just be done in a mature manner devoid of name calling.

Modifié par slashthedragon, 30 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[_Arkayne_]

slashthedragon wrote...

I don't think the whole discussion should just be ended, especially if BW intends to implement things that JH has suggested, whether it be skipping combat or "making games easier for women because we probably have babies to take care of and houses to clean".  The discussion should just be done in a mature manner devoid of name calling.

I agree.I  thought those comments were pretty insulting to female gamers,even if they were not inteded to be.

I can understand people's complaints about the gameplay side of things,as such things being implemented would take gaming in exactly the opposite direction than it should be going,and saying you dislike playing games when many people would kill for you're job is going to anger people.

But regardless it's no excuse for personally attacking somebody and any who did so should be ashamed.Doing so is absolutely deplorable and in no way justified.

But on the other end of things, coming back with immature comments and baiting people won't help you're cause and is likely to just fuel the fire.

just my 2c

[slashthedragon]

_Arkayne_ wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

I don't think the whole discussion should just be ended, especially if BW intends to implement things that JH has suggested, whether it be skipping combat or "making games easier for women because we probably have babies to take care of and houses to clean".  The discussion should just be done in a mature manner devoid of name calling.

I agree.I  thought those comments were pretty insulting to female gamers,even if they were not inteded to be.

I can understand people's complaints about the gameplay side of things,as such things being implemented would take gaming in exactly the opposite direction than it should be going,and saying you dislike playing games when many people would kill for you're job is going to anger people.

But regardless it's no excuse for personally attacking somebody and any who did so should be ashamed.Doing so is absolutely deplorable and in no way justified.

But on the other end of things, coming back with immature comments and baiting people won't help you're cause and is likely to just fuel the fire.

just my 2c

Yes, I agree with you, and I feel there was fault on both sides.
It would have been nice to have a mature discussion, but uncouth people say uncouth things and then misogyny is brought up and makes everything goes topsy turvy.
I would have liked to have had JH discuss her statements with us on these forums.  Block anyone who is an idiot.
I want to know why JH thinks women need a different kind of a game, and if this is going to color her future work as a video game writer.  I also would love to have told to please not perpetuate the stereotype of women as being housewifes and mothers.  Many of us are neither and it is insulting to us.
Also, very bad move to mention not having played video games.  Yes it is the truth but that is not something to say when you write for video games.  I expect a writer to know about games so they know things like how a conversation fits in with the action and how to create dialogue that serves a purpose.
Unfortunately, we'll never get that now...

Modifié par slashthedragon, 05 avril 2012 - 12:26 .

[_Arkayne_]

John Epler wrote...

Coolfaec wrote...

nzall wrote...

I'm sorry, I missed something here (I got here from the BW twitter feed). What exactly was said about miss Hepler that warranted this response?

Yeah, seriously. How do I know this isn't just another publicity stunt?

Let's keep this sort of thing out of the thread, shall we?

What sort of thing, they were asking a genuine question

[thats1evildude]

_Arkayne_ wrote...

What sort of thing, they were asking a genuine question

The idea that any company would "invent" a campaign of harassment for publicity is not only unfeasible, but also extremely vile. Suggesting that they would do something like that is in itself very offensive, especially in a thread dedicated to showing support for the target of that harassment. Have some sense and leave it alone.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 avril 2012 - 02:22 .

[_Arkayne_]

thats1evildude wrote...

_Arkayne_ wrote...

What sort of thing, they were asking a genuine question

The idea that any company would "invent" a campaign of harassment for publicity is not only unfeasible, but also extremely vile. Suggesting that they would do something like that is in itself very offensive, especially in a thread dedicated to showing support for the target of that harassment. Have some sense and leave it alone.

Sorry, i didn't notice the part about thinking it was a publicity stunt.
No offense intended.

[VampOrchid]

I like that this company backs up their people.

These 'weirdos' out there freak me out, wow. And I'm the tattooed, pierced, freaky looking one.

[Ice-Whiz]

A lot of people seem to think that having the option to skip battle would somehow degrade the world of RPG, yet you have to remember there was a time, when you could ONLY be a warrior, and there was ONE button. It was called 'hit' and all monsters looked the same.
The gaming world is moving towards having more options and as long as you can choose whether or not to use them I do not understand that people are so upset about the prospect. If you are scared of options now, you will undoubtedly be one of the old people sitting ranting 'When I was a child...'. After all, I see no one complaining now that there is the option of choosing your gender? Or changing your appearance?
I would not use it, but as a full-time mother myself, I understand not having the time to get far in the storyline because you have to fight every little nuisance there is on the way.
I know some may find it insulting that JH refer to women as housewives, but when you claim it is insulting to be considered a housewife, you at the same time insult every housewife there is, saying it is a negative generalization. Truth is most women at some point in their life have children and on average they spend more time at home with them than men, so to them JH's idea might not be so bad.
And NO, it is NOT the same as a book or a movie, for all you that try desperately to use that as an arguement! For you who skip the long dialogues: why don't YOU just play a game with very limited dialogue? Because Bioware games are known for the choices you make through the game, the romance options, the gender choice and custom appearance, you don't get that in books, movies, or a lot of other games.
The way ME3 had did not take away from the combat but gave something extra for different types of gamers, do people really find that idea so outrageous?

[akashacatbat]

I know I'm late to the thread, but I just gotta say, from one Jennifer to another...

I am so sorry that people think they have the right to treat you like this. It's wrong and disgusting. I, for one, have always been a huge fan of the Dragon Age series. I think all of you do an amazing job creating wonderful characters, which I have spent an embarrassing amount of time with across multiple play-throughs. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK. And screw bullies.

[ozenglish]

As someone who was bullied a giant load during school, sometimes fighting fire with fire is preferable. It is not always the high road, but a bully only knows usually one thing, and sometimes you have to respond in kind. But, as someone who is a face of a corporation, that can be pretty bad press on the company. I personally liked Anders in DA2, not my favourite BioWare character (HK-47 will always have that spot) but a likeable one nonetheless. I think the only critique that can be levelled at this situation was that not legal action was taken (that we know of). Cyber-bullying is punishable and should be dealt with. I would love to see some of these people say stuff like this in a bar.

[slashthedragon]

Ice-Whiz wrote...
 
I know some may find it insulting that JH refer to women as housewives, but when you claim it is insulting to be considered a housewife, you at the same time insult every housewife there is, saying it is a negative generalization. Truth is most women at some point in their life have children and on average they spend more time at home with them than men, so to them JH's idea might not be so bad.

It is not demeaning to women who are housewives.  It is a sexist thing to imply that women are homemakers and mothers.  And when you say 'most women at some point in their life have children' you are perpetuating a stereotype.  More and more women are opting not to have children.  Just look up "child free" on google.
And yes, I think it is horrible that people stoop to name calling.  It ruins the chance for a civilized conversation between JH and us on the forum.  I still hope that is somehow possible in the future.

[MagmaShishio]

It is a shame people gave her and still do give her a hard time. While the way she fought back was not exactly mature I can't really blame her. Wanting to lash out at those that are cruel to you is a natural reaction. I know from experience. Do not let the bullies keep you down Jennifer. There are people who truly appreciate your work. Press forward champion of Bioware.

[Ice-Whiz]

slashthedragon wrote...

Ice-Whiz wrote...
 
I know some may find it insulting that JH refer to women as housewives, but when you claim it is insulting to be considered a housewife, you at the same time insult every housewife there is, saying it is a negative generalization. Truth is most women at some point in their life have children and on average they spend more time at home with them than men, so to them JH's idea might not be so bad.

It is not demeaning to women who are housewives.  It is a sexist thing to imply that women are homemakers and mothers.  And when you say 'most women at some point in their life have children' you are perpetuating a stereotype.  More and more women are opting not to have children.  Just look up "child free" on google.
And yes, I think it is horrible that people stoop to name calling.  It ruins the chance for a civilized conversation between JH and us on the forum.  I still hope that is somehow possible in the future.

So, because 1 in 5 women opt never to have children (leaving 80% to still have them at some point in their life) it is perpetuating a stereotype to say "most women"?
80% percent is still most women and women in general spend more time on chilcare than men.
http://www.bls.gov/n...se/atus.nr0.htm
Yes, more and more women choose not to have children; more and more people also live to be a 100 that does not mean it is wrong to say that most people don't live as long.
The only reason to be upset that someone says that most women become mothers at some point, is because you see it as something negative to be called a mother; yet if the statistics don't fit you why should it be such a big problem? There are a lot of people that don't fit into certain statistics, that doesn't mean that the statistics are wrong, or that it is "perpetuating a stereotype" to refer to them. Otherwise, no one would ever be able to use statistics without being called all sorts of names.
It is unfortunate that JH was not more specific when referring to women, but hardly something to be terribly upset about. It was an opinion, and by no means from someone claiming to be an expert, and it was almost 6 years ago, yet the fuss did not start until recently. She's hardly the first to say something like this, and should not be held accountable for it now, when so much time has past. Otherwise, life would be a constant battle to defend everything you've ever said.

[slashthedragon]

Ice-Whiz wrote...
*snip*

The very real problem is that women who choose to be child free face prejudice and social stigmas.  Attacks on birth control and abortion in many states, the constant bingo-ing about when we are going to have kids, pressure from families and partners to have kids, etc. etc.
That's why I don't think it is a good idea to make a blanket statement about women being mothers.  It reinforces the idea that if you don't have children, there is something wrong with you.
In the article, a few simple words changes would have made this prejudice disappear.  Something like "women tend to, in my opinion, have less time in which to play video games, as they as busy in the workforce or with children or both".

[slashthedragon]

MagmaShishio wrote...

It is a shame people gave her and still do give her a hard time. While the way she fought back was not exactly mature I can't really blame her. Wanting to lash out at those that are cruel to you is a natural reaction. I know from experience. Do not let the bullies keep you down Jennifer. There are people who truly appreciate your work. Press forward champion of Bioware.

I just wish JH would retract her statements about women...

[Ice-Whiz]

slashthedragon wrote...

Ice-Whiz wrote...
*snip*

The very real problem is that women who choose to be child free face prejudice and social stigmas.  Attacks on birth control and abortion in many states, the constant bingo-ing about when we are going to have kids, pressure from families and partners to have kids, etc. etc.
That's why I don't think it is a good idea to make a blanket statement about women being mothers.  It reinforces the idea that if you don't have children, there is something wrong with you.
In the article, a few simple words changes would have made this prejudice disappear.  Something like "women tend to, in my opinion, have less time in which to play video games, as they as busy in the workforce or with children or both".

It was years ago in answer to a question put forth by an interviewer, if you think back, there are probably a few times where you did not formulate the best answer to certain questions yourself, yet would it really help if people told you years afterwards that they would like you to retract it or change the diction? Besides, saying what you suggested would imply that she believes women work harder than men, or that men don't work at all.
If JH should retract the statement, she would receive massive criticism if she only chose to retract part of the statements in the interview, if she changes the answers people would wonder why she would bother to make changes in something so vastly outdated by now. And she would again recieve criticism for changing certain parts but not others.
And most people reading the interview are mature enough to realize that not all women have children and it takes a lot to reinforce the idea that you should have them, if you don't want to, a lot more than a statement from a mother regarding her thoughts on videogaming.
I am sorry that you see such hostility about not being a mother, but I find that whenever someone says 'housewife', it's usually preceeded by the words 'just a', often by other women who see it as a negative term.

[slashthedragon]

Ice-Whiz wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

Ice-Whiz wrote...
*snip*

The very real problem is that women who choose to be child free face prejudice and social stigmas.  Attacks on birth control and abortion in many states, the constant bingo-ing about when we are going to have kids, pressure from families and partners to have kids, etc. etc.
That's why I don't think it is a good idea to make a blanket statement about women being mothers.  It reinforces the idea that if you don't have children, there is something wrong with you.
In the article, a few simple words changes would have made this prejudice disappear.  Something like "women tend to, in my opinion, have less time in which to play video games, as they as busy in the workforce or with children or both".

It was years ago in answer to a question put forth by an interviewer, if you think back, there are probably a few times where you did not formulate the best answer to certain questions yourself, yet would it really help if people told you years afterwards that they would like you to retract it or change the diction? Besides, saying what you suggested would imply that she believes women work harder than men, or that men don't work at all.
If JH should retract the statement, she would receive massive criticism if she only chose to retract part of the statements in the interview, if she changes the answers people would wonder why she would bother to make changes in something so vastly outdated by now. And she would again recieve criticism for changing certain parts but not others.
And most people reading the interview are mature enough to realize that not all women have children and it takes a lot to reinforce the idea that you should have them, if you don't want to, a lot more than a statement from a mother regarding her thoughts on videogaming.
I am sorry that you see such hostility about not being a mother, but I find that whenever someone says 'housewife', it's usually preceeded by the words 'just a', often by other women who see it as a negative term.

In response to the part I bolded, obvious the people were not mature enough, seeing as they called her all kinds of names.
I am just concerned about the perpetuation of a stereotype and if JH still feels this way, how will it affect her work, if it does?
But as you mention, this was in the past, so I'll leave off, unless she gives another interview XD

[Lamepro]

Why do I care what she said?

[Maria Caliban]

slashthedragon wrote...

I am just concerned about the perpetuation of a stereotype and if JH still feels this way, how will it affect her work, if it does?

How do you think it will affect her work?

[Cantina]

In my opinion, what JH said seemed rather sexist and I am
not exactly happy with how she wrote areas of DA2. Regardless of my opinions,
it does not give anyone a reason to lash personal attacks on someone. That to
me is rather childish. Make your opinion but doing so in a manner that has
repercussions of those opinions means you took it to far. No one should be
bullied no matter how much you disagree with them.  

[slashthedragon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

I am just concerned about the perpetuation of a stereotype and if JH still feels this way, how will it affect her work, if it does?

How do you think it will affect her work?

It is always a possibility that one's beliefs/opinions/etc. can color one's work.  If one thinks women are 'x' and 'x' and
then has to write a female character or a female romance, it may influence the writing of such.  I'm not saying it *will* happen, but I'm just curious.  (that's what English major/sociology minor does to you!)

[slashthedragon]

Cantina wrote...



In my opinion, what JH said seemed rather sexist and I am
not exactly happy with how she wrote areas of DA2. Regardless of my opinions,
it does not give anyone a reason to lash personal attacks on someone. That to
me is rather childish. Make your opinion but doing so in a manner that has
repercussions of those opinions means you took it to far. No one should be
bullied no matter how much you disagree with them.  

Very well said.  That's why I had hoed to have had a civil discussion, but then I found
out that rude people had ruined every chance of that.  Hell is other people after all.