1876 réponses à ce sujet

[Dessalines]

Cantina wrote...



In my opinion, what JH said seemed rather sexist and I am
not exactly happy with how she wrote areas of DA2. Regardless of my opinions,
it does not give anyone a reason to lash personal attacks on someone. That to
me is rather childish. Make your opinion but doing so in a manner that has
repercussions of those opinions means you took it to far. No one should be
bullied no matter how much you disagree with them.  

How do you know which section which writers wrote?

[slashthedragon]

Dessalines wrote...

Cantina wrote...



In my opinion, what JH said seemed rather sexist and I am
not exactly happy with how she wrote areas of DA2. Regardless of my opinions,
it does not give anyone a reason to lash personal attacks on someone. That to
me is rather childish. Make your opinion but doing so in a manner that has
repercussions of those opinions means you took it to far. No one should be
bullied no matter how much you disagree with them.  

How do you know which section which writers wrote?

It's been said who wrote which characters.

[Maria Caliban]

slashthedragon wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

I am just concerned about the perpetuation of a stereotype and if JH still feels this way, how will it affect her work, if it does?

How do you think it will affect her work?

It is always a possibility that one's beliefs/opinions/etc. can color one's work.  If one thinks women are 'x' and 'x' and
then has to write a female character or a female romance, it may influence the writing of such.  I'm not saying it *will* happen, but I'm just curious.  (that's what English major/sociology minor does to you!)

You dodged the question.

That said, there are five women writing for Dragon Age. If Jennifer perpetuates a stereotype, I suspect one of the others might notice and comment on it. And, in my opinion, David shows more understanding of gender issues in fiction than the majority of fantasy writers.

Dessalines wrote...

How do you know which section which writers wrote?

They've told us.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 16 avril 2012 - 09:32 .

[Zkyire]

slashthedragon wrote...

MagmaShishio wrote...

It is a shame people gave her and still do give her a hard time. While the way she fought back was not exactly mature I can't really blame her. Wanting to lash out at those that are cruel to you is a natural reaction. I know from experience. Do not let the bullies keep you down Jennifer. There are people who truly appreciate your work. Press forward champion of Bioware.

I just wish JH would retract her statements about women...

Why would she retract them?

It doesn't change the fact that she said what she said.

It doesn't change the fact that she believes what she believes.

Saying anything to the contrary would mean nothing other than to make you feel less offended, but she wouldn't actually mean any of it, rendering it pointless.

And yes, this whole thing really is making something out of nothing.

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

Thank you for all the Dwarves!!!

[rolson00]

DaBigDragon wrote...

I saw that post on Reddit when that was going on. Could not believe how far people took that. No-one bothered to check the source obviously.

Disgusting.

or the Date,  that interview was what, four to six years ago?

[cindercatz]

First I've seen about this.. I'll just put my two cents in then.

Ok, firstly, it's horrible to be attacked for something you didn't do, period. Slandering someone on the internet is bad karma. Trying to hurt someone who has done you and yours no harm and no insult, who has done nothing to damage anything you care about, is never justified period. Her reaction is perfectly cool with me. If somebody comes at you with bs about bs, junk that's not your fault and that you're not responsible for instigating, go right back at 'em, hard as you like. They asked for it.

Second, I'm not sure which parts she wrote or whatever, but DA:O and KoTOR are two of my favorite games, and the writing in DA2 was actually excellent. What was lacking was choice/consequence, customization, an evolving or moving setting (static environments and repeating dungeons, etc.), and general player agency. The writing was fine. So DA2's failings are not her fault. Also, just saying she's not big on actually playing games says nothing about her ability to write for them or in any way do her job. She's been around a while and worked on at least two of the best games ever made, so I would think her ability to understand and contribute to the medium is obvious.

Lastly, I agree with her 'skip combat' idea. I might not use it much, but there are games where it's an optiion and one in particular where I have and do use it, because of repetitive monotony. If I'm enjoying the other aspects and features of a game, but can't stand some aspect of it, being able to skip through that aspect is a good thing. In the DA and ME games, for example, you can automize level ups, stat management, etc., but I love that stuff, so I never do. If I could have automated the actual combat in DA2 on the other hand, you can bet I would have, at least before they patched in the auto-attack feature on X-Box. I'm right with her there. That's a good idea.

Ok, last thing is directly to Ms. Hepler if this gets to her somehow:
I'm sorry you had to go through this. I know it's been a while, but something like this can sting for a long time, I know. I hope you're feeling better, and I hope you remain enthusiastic to keep striving onward and upward making the games people like me love to play. I'm very much looking forward to Dragon Age 3 and all your future contributions! Be well. :-) Thanks.

[steven20011]

I still support Bioware.
But all the comments that people make should have arguments with them.
These were just stupit threats of angry people who don't get the science behind the games.

Hope you'll be at Bioware for many years Jennifer!

[Theodoret]

I liked the writing on DA2 - I thought it was some of the best writing on a CRPG since Planescape:Torment. Its rare to encounter a computer game with the OMG factor that the very best novels and films provide.

I hope things have settled down for Ms. Hepler, it must have been extremely distressing to be at the receiving end of that sort of treatment. I hope it doesn't discourage her from continuing to produce high quality work.

Unfortunately not everyone in this world is nice - particularly when they can hide behind a shield of anonymity. The downside to social media is that it allows that sort of person to communicate their nastiness widely and rapidly.

EA and Bioware, particularly through your writers, have made increasingly more progressive, inclusive, and sophisticated games. Clearly that's not to everyone's taste but it is the future. These angry voices are just the crickets in the field - noisy clamorous insects. Illegitimi non carborundum.

[Lamepro]

People were trolling Ms.Hepler and not giving out any good reason for slandering her.I know what she said in her Interview it doesn't effect me at all.

[stobie]

I *just* heard about this, and it's absolutely sickening. (and I'm trying to make a donation to BullyingCanada - which btw, is an odd name & sounds like your southern neighbor is out to get you - but it won't let me do an online donation... grrr)

I've adored the writing in Dragon Age & I both envy & admire Ms Hepler for her work in gaming. I put the story first, too, & I completely get her point. (and despite being female, I've main-tanked raids, so stuff the Angry Birds/Farmville slams.) She's created memorable characters & I cannot believe our culture has supported such overt & sociopathic behavior as has been evidenced in this awful, vile incident.

[wsandista]

BullyingCanada sounds funny
It was a stupid thing to do though, even though I thought DA2 was awful and a huge let down from DAO. There is plenty to attack in the game itself, you don't have to get personal.

[slashthedragon]

wsandista wrote...

BullyingCanada sounds funny
It was a stupid thing to do though, even though I thought DA2 was awful and a huge let down from DAO. There is plenty to attack in the game itself, you don't have to get personal.

I don't believe they were initially attacking her for her work in DA2 (maybe later they did?); it was that she said she really didn't play video games, thought there should be a way to skip battles, made a generalization about female players and then made some nasty remarks via twitter (but the other people did start the rudeness first).

[Samzo77]

This response is one of the reasons I appreciate Bioware.

[Karlone123]

Plain idiotic people attacking a person for having a different liking on games. She loves to write rather than play mindless action games. I prefer to play games with strong story aspects rather than combat aspects, I never play Call of Duty or Halo because it feels to me it has more combat aspects. I have seen people state they hate a game lacking a combat system and that opinion is as valid as Ms Hepler's opinion. But it's just not right to attack another's opinion because it conflicts with yours.

I apologize to Ms Hepler for any discomfort she has felt from these threats, know that there are gamers who love and appreciate her work and I do hope she continues to write.

[Chocobofangirl]

Maker, I remember this. Part of what keeps me away from the less friendly parts of the Dragon Age community, which is sadly rather vocal sometimes on BSN. The stuff that's been credited to Hepler is my favourite parts of both DA:O and 2, and frankly, I like to use the instant kill switch when I play Origins all the time. Great work, and I can't wait to find out what part you work on in the next DA property!

[slashthedragon]

Karlone123 wrote...

Plain idiotic people attacking a person for having a different liking on games. She loves to write rather than play mindless action games. I prefer to play games with strong story aspects rather than combat aspects, I never play Call of Duty or Halo because it feels to me it has more combat aspects. I have seen people state they hate a game lacking a combat system and that opinion is as valid as Ms Hepler's opinion. But it's just not right to attack another's opinion because it conflicts with yours.

I apologize to Ms Hepler for any discomfort she has felt from these threats, know that there are gamers who love and appreciate her work and I do hope she continues to write.

I completely agree that people were indeed idiots.  However, the anger about her not liking to play games came from the fact that YOU DO NOT SAY THIS IF YOU WORK IN A VG STUDIO.  Also, people may deny it, but you can't be *just* a writer for these games with out having know each aspect of the game -- combat included.  Oh, and she was a bit mysogonist with her comments about women players.

[Ariella]

slashthedragon wrote...

I completely agree that people were indeed idiots.  However, the anger about her not liking to play games came from the fact that YOU DO NOT SAY THIS IF YOU WORK IN A VG STUDIO.  Also, people may deny it, but you can't be *just* a writer for these games with out having know each aspect of the game -- combat included.  Oh, and she was a bit mysogonist with her comments about women players.

Going backwards... mysoginistic? What quote is this? If it's the one where she's talking about having female plumbing and a job at a world class gaming studio? I fail to see how that shows hatered of women, nor have I ever seen that kind of attitude in her work, and in fact I truly enjoyed the romance she wrote for Anders.

Second, the fact that she says she doesn't like playing games... so what? She has the right to say that, and feel it, and it has nothing to do with her WORK on the games. So she doesn't play them, biug deal. I doubt you'll find in any contract that love of playing games is a prerequisite. It's no worse that Terry Brooks' comment that he became a writer because it paid more than being a lawyer....

Getting upset because a Bioware employee has said she doesn't game in her off hours is just silly, and immature.

[Ninja Stan]

slashthedragon wrote...
However, the anger about her not liking to play games came from the fact that YOU DO NOT SAY THIS IF YOU WORK IN A VG STUDIO.  Also, people may deny it, but you can't be *just* a writer for these games with out having know each aspect of the game -- combat included.  Oh, and she was a bit mysogonist with her comments about women players.

I can deny it, and I do.

Writers would have very little to do with how the combat in the game is developed, just as combat designers don't necessarily need to know anything about the story in order to develop a combat system. Ms. Hepler is entitled to state her own opinion, especially when she is asked for it, and she offered it up solely as an opinion on what she does and does not like to play, and why. It matters not a whit whether she is a game developer or a game reviewer or a professional videogame player. If you are doing your job well, and your bosses are happy with the work you do, what's the problem?

People are making way more of this than they should be, and focusing on the wrong parts of it. Harassment of a developer is unacceptable whether you agree with someone's opinion or not. Jennifer was in no way "asking for it" with her comments or her actions, and there is no justification for invading someone's privacy or security because you disagree with what she said about videogames. That kind of behaviour is juvenile and stupid.

[Realmzmaster]

slashthedragon wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

Plain idiotic people attacking a person for having a different liking on games. She loves to write rather than play mindless action games. I prefer to play games with strong story aspects rather than combat aspects, I never play Call of Duty or Halo because it feels to me it has more combat aspects. I have seen people state they hate a game lacking a combat system and that opinion is as valid as Ms Hepler's opinion. But it's just not right to attack another's opinion because it conflicts with yours.

I apologize to Ms Hepler for any discomfort she has felt from these threats, know that there are gamers who love and appreciate her work and I do hope she continues to write.

I completely agree that people were indeed idiots.  However, the anger about her not liking to play games came from the fact that YOU DO NOT SAY THIS IF YOU WORK IN A VG STUDIO.  Also, people may deny it, but you can't be *just* a writer for these games with out having know each aspect of the game -- combat included.  Oh, and she was a bit mysogonist with her comments about women players.

What? Ms. Hepler's task is to write the story and dialogue. She has nothing to do with nor need to know anything about the combat. She has no input regarding the combat. She is entitled to her opinion. That does not change no matter where or for who she works. If she is doing her job and doing it well that is the only consideration an employer has to worry about. Yes you can be a writer and not need to know every aspect of the game. Programmers do not need to know every aspect of the story to program the game.

It is a team effort. Each member of the team is proficient in their area. Ms. Hepler's personal opinions do not represent Bioware. She was speaking as an individual. Bioware/EA has a PR department that represents the company's interests

[Ariella]

Realmzmaster wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

Plain idiotic people attacking a person for having a different liking on games. She loves to write rather than play mindless action games. I prefer to play games with strong story aspects rather than combat aspects, I never play Call of Duty or Halo because it feels to me it has more combat aspects. I have seen people state they hate a game lacking a combat system and that opinion is as valid as Ms Hepler's opinion. But it's just not right to attack another's opinion because it conflicts with yours.

I apologize to Ms Hepler for any discomfort she has felt from these threats, know that there are gamers who love and appreciate her work and I do hope she continues to write.

I completely agree that people were indeed idiots.  However, the anger about her not liking to play games came from the fact that YOU DO NOT SAY THIS IF YOU WORK IN A VG STUDIO.  Also, people may deny it, but you can't be *just* a writer for these games with out having know each aspect of the game -- combat included.  Oh, and she was a bit mysogonist with her comments about women players.

What? Ms. Hepler's task is to write the story and dialogue. She has nothing to do with nor need to know anything about the combat. She has no input regarding the combat. She is entitled to her opinion. That does not change no matter where or for who she works. If she is doing her job and doing it well that is the only consideration an employer has to worry about. Yes you can be a writer and not need to know every aspect of the game. Programmers do not need to know every aspect of the story to program the game.

It is a team effort. Each member of the team is proficient in their area. Ms. Hepler's personal opinions do not represent Bioware. She was speaking as an individual. Bioware/EA has a PR department that represents the company's interests

Amen, and if it may be pointed out, as long as she enjoys what she's doing, it doesn't matter if she goes home at night and does something else. And as I said before, I've found very little fault (a few things I'd done differently, but nothing major) with what she's written, especially with taking over Anders from Dave Gaider. Heck, I didn't even realize David wasn't writing Anders, until after I started playing and it was pointed out that he'd been handed over to Jennifer. I found the transition pretty seemless.

There's a difference between disagreeing in an adult fashion with her opinions, and whining about percieved flaws and blaming them on someone in a juvenille fashion, Slash.  It really amazes me you're even continuing this line, especially since you seem to be trolling for an apology from Ms. Hepler about her opinions. Something that isn't going to happen. Jen Hepler is most likely going to be with Bioware longer than you'll be on these boards, Slash... I suggest letting it go.

Edit: BTW, Realmz, well said, if I didn't make that clear.

Modifié par Ariella, 12 juin 2012 - 07:16 .

[slashthedragon]

First, I cannot imagine working as a writer for video games and NOT being privy to all the other parts. To do things separately is unbelievable to me.
Second, misogyny can be subtle and can be done by a woman. I will always be irked by her comments concerning motherhood and women gamers.
Third, Anders is one of the most complained about characters in DA2. Who wrote him again?
Finally, I'll make no more remarks here. And while I support BW and the no bully process, and am against idiots gamers who can't make a civil argument, I still feel that both sides need to be shown.

[EricHVela]

I just found out about this.

I am just some random person on the Internet that is wholly disappointed by all of that.

I think that a writer should bring their own style to the story, especially when the story consists of different writers handling different things, such as specific characters or events. A person's beliefs can affect their writing, but it is not necessarily a bad thing (and not necessarily a good thing, either). In this case, I think that the more variety of viewpoints inflates the story with different characters that are actually different and story events that aren't copies of other story events.

As for the ancient tidbit that was used to start this mess: The suggestion to be able to skip gameplay is not a new one, and it's not something that games never do. There are several games that let players skip sections of gameplay that prove too tough for a player.

Off the top of my head: L.A. Noire is a recent addition to such games. It will go as far as to suggest the player skip that section if the player fails to get past it after several tries. (I haven't seen it do that, but the loading hints says it will.)

Another that comes to mind: The Elder Scrolls series. Fast travel avoids all encounters between the start and the destination. If that's not skipping gameplay, I don't know what is.

Like Realmzmaster at al. have stated: Teams have their own job to do. Since when does the VA know how to implement the combat strategy? Isn't that the same as the writers not needing to know that characters can pause the game to choose a power? Does the writer need to know that player choices are in the form of a wheel, a numbered list or a series of sneezes? There are interactions between teams. There has to be, but they don't micromanage each other. A writer that focuses on the writing makes sense as does a combat designer focusing on combat.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 12 juin 2012 - 07:49 .

[Lamepro]

Ninja Stan wrote...

People are making way more of this than they should be, and focusing on the wrong parts of it. Harassment of a developer is unacceptable whether you agree with someone's opinion or not. Jennifer was in no way "asking for it" with her comments or her actions, and there is no justification for invading someone's privacy or security because you disagree with what she said about videogames. That kind of behaviour is juvenile and stupid.

You have your 4chan users and trolls that tend to do this out of being Juvenile and Insane.Everyone is so focus on the fact she doesn't play video games so the ****** what she is a writer. Its funny Robert A. Kotick the CEO of Activision Blizzard doesn't play Video game because he is a Buisness man.

[Firky]

slashthedragon wrote...
Second, misogyny can be subtle and can be done by a woman. I will always be irked by her comments concerning motherhood and women gamers.

As a mum to two small children, I skipped rather a lot of dialogue in DA2. (I'm a combat junkie, at heart.) But the escape key allows you to skip dialogue, especially just quest giving stuff on multiple playthroughs. There isn't an option for skipping combat, for the busy mum (or dad, btw), who is so inclined to do so, in DA2. (Many games do have auto-combat or auto-resolve.)

I never interpreted that at misogynistic. I was like, "Tell me about it." (Life is kinda busy at times. I miss the days when I could literally play games all weekend. My husband isn't a gamer, but he misses the days he could wander around art galleries, coffee in hand.)

Regardless, even if she had said something really dumb (which I really don't believe that was), bullying her, like what people did, is so far into the realms of worse, that it's irrelevant.

Modifié par Firky, 13 juin 2012 - 10:13 .