1790 réponses à ce sujet

[Eire Icon]

Itkovian wrote...

Cutting content originally meant to be covered by the price of the box is dishonest, certainly.

Developing extra content specifically to sell it at an extra charge is perfectly honest.

The latter is what is going on with these "day one" DLCs, as has been explained numerous time. If they weren't going to get extra money out of it (or otherwise encouraged new game purchases, like the Cerberus Network in ME2), then they would not be making that content at all.

That's how it works for all DLC. If a game is complete wihtout its DLC (which it absolutely is), they wouldn't spend the time and effort to make that DLC if they did not expect a return from it.

Itkovian

Spot on. And thats about the long and short of it. If you want the content you pay for it, if not don't

[chengthao]

Eire Icon wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Cutting content originally meant to be covered by the price of the box is dishonest, certainly.

Developing extra content specifically to sell it at an extra charge is perfectly honest.

The latter is what is going on with these "day one" DLCs, as has been explained numerous time. If they weren't going to get extra money out of it (or otherwise encouraged new game purchases, like the Cerberus Network in ME2), then they would not be making that content at all.

That's how it works for all DLC. If a game is complete wihtout its DLC (which it absolutely is), they wouldn't spend the time and effort to make that DLC if they did not expect a return from it.

Itkovian

Spot on. And thats about the long and short of it. If you want the content you pay for it, if not don't

right . . . . so b/c they said it then it must be true . . . . b/c we know companies never lie

[Lawliet89]

The Prothean squad member artwork is in the mass effect artbook. So I am really sceptical if you say this content was not cut from the game.

[Janus198]

What do you think will we get also a weapon of prothean origin?
Like the flamethrower or Locust in the Zaeed and Kasumi DLCs.

[Vieuxcruex]

Personally, I'm getting annoyed they are releasing this as day one DLC myself. Namely because they should leave it for a month or two so that CE owners like myself can simply Lord it over you guys, just so you'd actually have something to be arguing about. I mean really, you guys are claiming its something already on the disc and all that, despite it being a 600MB+ download, rather then everyone's favourite 108kb DL code that unlocks already existent code.

How can bioware win, I mean seriously. They make it CE only, then you complain regulars don't have a chance. They release it delayed, you claim they are simply trying to force you to buy the CE, or accept an inferior product, and that they are being idiots for not sharring. They decide to release it at the same time as everyone else, just to ensure you can play with him from the begining, and yet you still complain.

If I was bioware, I'd simply stick him for the guys who supported them the most by getting the CE. Same amount of Rage either way, and that way those who'd got him would appreciate him far more.

[obie191970]

Lawliet89 wrote...

The Prothean squad member artwork is in the mass effect artbook. So I am really sceptical if you say this content was not cut from the game.

Are you suggesting they don't do artwork for DLC?

[rob593]

Before reading this post please understand that it is FULL of rhetorical questions and "food for thought" it is designed to make some people stop and think and not to prompt debate. If you disagree you do not have to tell me, likewise if you agree you do not have to respond.

Take a moment to contemplate this thread, the things discussed within it and the many differing opinions presented.

Now think back a while to a time when Collectors editions where marketed to collectors because they were worth collecting, they offered art books, little models, posters, area maps, etc. They were actual tangible things that could be hung on a wall or placed on a mantle and then when your friends came around you could say "look, I OWN this"

You played the exact same game as your friend yet you own more, because you are a collector. You chose to give money to a developer who you thought deserved it, because they created a superior product and you appreciate that.

Can any of you honestly say Bioware have earnt your money when you buy the CE or Day 1 DLC?

No, and why? Because you haven't seen the product yet, what exactly are you buying if you sit down and think about it? The answer? Hype, you are buying Hype, you are not showing appreciation for a superior product, you haven't even played the product yet, so how can you?

You are paying for the illusion Bioware have created, equal parts the latest trailer and your imagining of how good it "could" be.

Why are you people so eager to throw your money around? I understand that hype is powerful, you see a trailer you want the product, but how far are you willing to go, how much will you spend for the promise of a good game, and more importantly how many times are you going to let the developers exploit that?

I am not fervently against DLC, i have heard many rationalizations from both the developers and the customers as to why it can be a good thing, yet I have only ever bought 3 or 4 items of DLC in my life, simply because I have only ever experienced 1 product that is truely worthy of it, and yet, I haven't really missed out on anything.

So the next time you see a trailer or are told about a new bit of DLC, really think to yourself about your motives for wanting it. Is it "because it looks cool" or "because everyone else has it and I don't want to miss out" or in my opinion as it should be "because the developers made something worthy of my money"

As for the developers releasing Day 1 DLC, why do you do it? Why do you willingly newter your own product for some of it's intended audience? Do you simply not care about the product as you used to? Do you not take pride in your work, have no integrity? Please help me to understand, if you make a video game, do you not make it to the best of your ability then make sure as many people as possible see that final product in all it's glory? This is my problem with the games industry today, it's not that they make more money (almost ridiculous so) it's that they no longer earn it through skill and passion, instead they earn it through underhanded marketing strategies, flashy trailers, hype and promises of what could be, and not what is.

So did bioware sell there souls to EA? I say no, they sold there hearts.

If you look at the developer/customer relationship, as it is now, isn't it backwards? Shouldn't the customer be determining what is worthy of there money and how much it is worth? When did this change and did it change for the better?

Thanks for reading.

[Lawliet89]

obie191970 wrote...

Lawliet89 wrote...

The Prothean squad member artwork is in the mass effect artbook. So I am really sceptical if you say this content was not cut from the game.

Are you suggesting they don't do artwork for DLC?

I'm saying that this was probably conceptualised a long time ago and you cannot rule out the possibility that it was done at around the time the game was developed.

Look, I'm not pretending to conclude anything. Just my speculation.

Modifié par Lawliet89, 22 février 2012 - 03:29 .

[xentar]

That's like cutting out Legion from ME2 and making him/it "bonus content". That's excluded content for sure (from the main game, from initial development, whatever you like more), but as long as they keep calling it such I will accept this as the reality of modern games. Maybe soon DLC is all we will be getting, and full games will be a thing of the past.

Itkovian wrote...
Cutting content originally meant to be covered by the price of the box is dishonest, certainly.

Developing extra content specifically to sell it at an extra charge is perfectly honest.

So, if they decide to sell the first half of the game as "the main part" and the second one, including the endings as "bonus day one DLC", you'll be OK with this, as long as they state it was meant to be this way from the beginning?

Modifié par xentar, 22 février 2012 - 03:36 .

[Selor Kiith]

The PLC wrote...

I think us regular edition owners pretty much needs to realize that this is actually just CE content, made available to the public. The alternative would be that we wouldn't be able to get it at all, and that would suck even worse. Again, I do not think that such a huge thing like an entire character should be day-1 DLC (Seriously, I don't support this in ANY way! Bioware/EA is taking a nasty steamy ****** on the majority of their customers with this crap!), but don't forget that it comes 'free' with the CE of the game. it sucks ass, but the alternative would be even worse.

Do you really think they actually made it only for the CE and decided afterwards they would release it for everyone on Day One?

If they kept it CE only they would at least be consistent and it would be far less aggravating then the cr** they pull of now...

[Vieuxcruex]

Lawliet89 wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Lawliet89 wrote...

The Prothean squad member artwork is in the mass effect artbook. So I am really sceptical if you say this content was not cut from the game.

Are you suggesting they don't do artwork for DLC?

I'm saying that this was probably conceptualised a long time ago and you cannot rule out the possibility that it was done at around the time the game was developed.

Look, I'm not pretending to conclude anything. Just my speculation.

Just because it was conceptualised a while ago, doesn't mean it was designed in development. They might have realised 'hey, we have these talented dudes running around, and they don't have crap to do now that their job is finished. Lets look through the intresting ideas book and see if we can't use some of that. to add onto the CE.

Two Weeks Later

'Hey cool, this is actually rather awesome. I know this is meant to be CE only and everything, and we've already printed out the codes and crap, but why don't we allow those other dudes to give it a try once more. Now, we already have the Alliance network replacing the Cerebus network stuff, so why don't we just see if Microsoft will let those other dues have a shot at playing it.

[Amaranthy]

Eire Icon wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Cutting content originally meant to be covered by the price of the box is dishonest, certainly.

Developing extra content specifically to sell it at an extra charge is perfectly honest.

The latter is what is going on with these "day one" DLCs, as has been explained numerous time. If they weren't going to get extra money out of it (or otherwise encouraged new game purchases, like the Cerberus Network in ME2), then they would not be making that content at all.

That's how it works for all DLC. If a game is complete wihtout its DLC (which it absolutely is), they wouldn't spend the time and effort to make that DLC if they did not expect a return from it.

Itkovian

Spot on. And thats about the long and short of it. If you want the content you pay for it, if not don't

Where did you get the information that: "
The latter is what is going on with these "day one" DLCs". Don't tell me, "Bioware told us so!" So what? It's a common thing to LIE in marketing. It's even normal.

This seems like the option of releasing an important DLC, which many of ME fans want, as "day one DLC". EA/Bioware knows it's going to sell, so why include it in the game if you can make it a DLC and milk the crap out of it.

I am not saying this was a bad move on EA/Bioware, I congratulate them for making this smart choice, since we all know this DLC will sell a lot. But don't believe everything that companies tell you.

[jmood88]

Vieuxcruex wrote...

Personally, I'm getting annoyed they are releasing this as day one DLC myself. Namely because they should leave it for a month or two so that CE owners like myself can simply Lord it over you guys, just so you'd actually have something to be arguing about. I mean really, you guys are claiming its something already on the disc and all that, despite it being a 600MB+ download, rather then everyone's favourite 108kb DL code that unlocks already existent code.

How can bioware win, I mean seriously. They make it CE only, then you complain regulars don't have a chance. They release it delayed, you claim they are simply trying to force you to buy the CE, or accept an inferior product, and that they are being idiots for not sharring. They decide to release it at the same time as everyone else, just to ensure you can play with him from the begining, and yet you still complain.

If I was bioware, I'd simply stick him for the guys who supported them the most by getting the CE. Same amount of Rage either way, and that way those who'd got him would appreciate him far more.

I like the way you think.

I'm actually a little surprised that I haven't seen "they just made it a big file to make it look like it's worthwhile" comments yet.

Modifié par jmood88, 22 février 2012 - 03:42 .

[Vault08]

Actually, it kind of makes sense if you think about it. The Protheans were turned into collectors, the prothean comes with the Collector's edition free....

[Daywalker315]

rob593 wrote...

Can any of you honestly say Bioware have earnt your money when you buy the CE or Day 1 DLC?

No, and why? Because you haven't seen the product yet, what exactly are you buying if you sit down and think about it? The answer? Hype, you are buying Hype, you are not showing appreciation for a superior product, you haven't even played the product yet, so how can you?

You are paying for the illusion Bioware have created, equal parts the latest trailer and your imagining of how good it "could" be.

The rest of your post has some points I agree with and some I don't. However, this part is just silly. No offense, but give me a break. I have the CE pre-ordered and will buy every relevant DLC released after launch, happily. Not because of an illusion or hype but simply because I have faith in the team that created Mass Effect 1 and 2. Not to mention having played the SP and the insanely fun and addictive MP portion of the demo. THAT is why they earned my money. Two of my favorite games and a demo leading up to the release earned my money and I'm guessing several hundred thousand other pre-orderers would agree with me.

[Eire Icon]

chengthao wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Cutting content originally meant to be covered by the price of the box is dishonest, certainly.

Developing extra content specifically to sell it at an extra charge is perfectly honest.

The latter is what is going on with these "day one" DLCs, as has been explained numerous time. If they weren't going to get extra money out of it (or otherwise encouraged new game purchases, like the Cerberus Network in ME2), then they would not be making that content at all.

That's how it works for all DLC. If a game is complete wihtout its DLC (which it absolutely is), they wouldn't spend the time and effort to make that DLC if they did not expect a return from it.

Itkovian

Spot on. And thats about the long and short of it. If you want the content you pay for it, if not don't

right . . . . so b/c they said it then it must be true . . . . b/c we know companies never lie

Its their product, they can charge what they want for it. If people think its not worth $10 then they shouldn't pay it. If people aren't buying the DLC they will stop making it.

I suspect however that the DLC will be a huge success because most of the ME fans will pay the money

[LinksOcarina]

Lawliet89 wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Lawliet89 wrote...

The Prothean squad member artwork is in the mass effect artbook. So I am really sceptical if you say this content was not cut from the game.

Are you suggesting they don't do artwork for DLC?

I'm saying that this was probably conceptualised a long time ago and you cannot rule out the possibility that it was done at around the time the game was developed.

Look, I'm not pretending to conclude anything. Just my speculation.

that may be true, but the thing is based on the track record of what Bioware has done in the past four console releases, it seems like a trend based on completion and how integral characters fit into the storyline.

I said this earlier, but we all know Shale was re-designed at the last minute because she was originally cut from Dragon Age: Origins, and was made as an incentive for Day one buys beause she was offered free to new purchases. They did the same thing with Zaeed for the Cerberus Network, and it is obvious that he was an extra character because he didn't have any dialogue tree, just talking points and his loyalty mission.

After this point they changed the model because people complained about it. So now they made it available only available via a day one DLC buy, or through a special editon. I personaly don't like this way of doing things, but people **** so they change policy, not for the better though. Oh and Sebastian fits the bill as well of an extra character, he was the only archer user and an extra rogue, and it felt like he was either planned for the main game but was not completed in time for launch, or was a planned extra character because of his integration into the games mechanics.

So yeah, the Prothean is probably something that was planned. But I know people cite the script as evidence, but what people need to realize is that scripts go through re-writes and draft changes all the time. Mostly in pre-production, sometimes during the actual development. So they may have had this idea of a Prothean for a while, it doesn't mean it was in the game originally, it just means they wanted to put it in somewhere.

In the end the only way to find out is by playing the game, so  I reiterate what I said before. If you don't want the DLC, you don't have to buy it. Those who bought the collectors edition chose to do so, those who missed out now have a chance to get one of the main selling points in the collectors edition, and will pay $10 less because they are getting one thing over five things. It's just busniess because its one of the few ways developers and publishers make money now a days. 

[Selor Kiith]

The PLC wrote...

So you rather not be able to get it at all?!

I, for myself alone, yes.

See, it is probably just me, but if they kept it CE only they at least showed some integrity.
Now one of the selling points of the CE is just avaiable for everyone and I think there are enough people that actually bought the CE just for the DLCs and they should be even more pi**ed off by this.

It is either: Do it right or don't do it at all!

While, as written in this thread, find the Idea of simply cutting content and pasting it, relabeled and with a pricetag onto the market is by far the most hateable decision in this industry, this would at least have made sense and followed some form of logic and actually rewarded Loyal Fans instead of discarding anything for a few bucks more...

[Darth Death]

Amaranthy wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Cutting content originally meant to be covered by the price of the box is dishonest, certainly.

Developing extra content specifically to sell it at an extra charge is perfectly honest.

The latter is what is going on with these "day one" DLCs, as has been explained numerous time. If they weren't going to get extra money out of it (or otherwise encouraged new game purchases, like the Cerberus Network in ME2), then they would not be making that content at all.

That's how it works for all DLC. If a game is complete wihtout its DLC (which it absolutely is), they wouldn't spend the time and effort to make that DLC if they did not expect a return from it.

Itkovian

Spot on. And thats about the long and short of it. If you want the content you pay for it, if not don't

Where did you get the information that: "
The latter is what is going on with these "day one" DLCs". Don't tell me, "Bioware told us so!" So what? It's a common thing to LIE in marketing. It's even normal.

This seems like the option of releasing an important DLC, which many of ME fans want, as "day one DLC". EA/Bioware knows it's going to sell, so why include it in the game if you can make it a DLC and milk the crap out of it.

I am not saying this was a bad move on EA/Bioware, I congratulate them for making this smart choice, since we all know this DLC will sell a lot. But don't believe everything that companies tell you.

And many people do unfortunately, but yeah I agree. 

[CROAT_56]

Prothy's armor is sick I want it.

[Daywalker315]

jmood88 wrote...

Vieuxcruex wrote...

Personally, I'm getting annoyed they are releasing this as day one DLC myself. Namely because they should leave it for a month or two so that CE owners like myself can simply Lord it over you guys, just so you'd actually have something to be arguing about. I mean really, you guys are claiming its something already on the disc and all that, despite it being a 600MB+ download, rather then everyone's favourite 108kb DL code that unlocks already existent code.

How can bioware win, I mean seriously. They make it CE only, then you complain regulars don't have a chance. They release it delayed, you claim they are simply trying to force you to buy the CE, or accept an inferior product, and that they are being idiots for not sharring. They decide to release it at the same time as everyone else, just to ensure you can play with him from the begining, and yet you still complain.

If I was bioware, I'd simply stick him for the guys who supported them the most by getting the CE. Same amount of Rage either way, and that way those who'd got him would appreciate him far more.

I like the way you think.

I'm actually a little surprised that I haven't seen "they just made it a big file to make it look like it's worthwhile" comments yet.

I agree with both of you. And let's consider this; ME2 was already on two discs. Now they add MP and a game that is, according to BW founders, longer than ME2 (certainly much more dialogue, 40k lines vs. 26k-ish). 628 MB or whatever it was can be significant. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if SP was on two discs and MP on a third but IF they did cram it all onto two discs for 360, they might not have even had room for the 600MB+ this DLC contains.

Granted, that does not inherently justify it not being a free download for new game buyers but I have no problem with this DLC or any DLC that is reasonably priced. If you think this is bad, try paying $10 for gun skins for Gears 3. I think BW is angellic compared to Epic regarding DLC.

I personally doubt Prothy will be so integral to plot that it is a necessity to have. And please stop with all the "I paid $60 I should get a complete game" talk. This is optional for people who want to dive deeper into the lore and history and have an extra squad mate to boot. If you're unable to complete the SP story because you don't have this squad mate, then we can talk about not having a complete game.

And yes, I pre-ordered the CE back in July and am now even happier I did. However, if I didn't, I'd still pay the $10 happily because I like extra squaddies and dialogue. Example, Kasumi was my favorite squaddie in ME2 due to her Rapid Shadow Strike and Flashbang Grenade. Her loyalty mission was fun and different and her little comments about the crew once on Normandy are entertaining. Well worth my money.

[drak4806.2]

I still say that they should have had a batarian as the bonus squadmate then people wouldn't have cared so much.