1790 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Bad King wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I've decided to start a petition on the matter.

Please sign and pass it on to your friends and associates who love Mass Effect and want the content to be shared fairly to everyone.

Yeah, this.

[Mclouvins]

Kuei_Jin wrote...

Calling out TB on not boycotting Deus Ex with their Tong DLC which was retailer preorder pacific, which you could not even get afterwards. A bit hypocritical.

That's sort of the thing, he's trying to cherry pick what is acceptable and what isn't. Weapons are but a character isn't, which is just arbitrary. What if this was a generic human mercenary, sort of like Zaeed, would it be acceptable then?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

rob593 wrote...
You tell me, are you?

I responded to this in one of my other posts.

Again you need to understand the context and the goal of my original post but also bear in mind that you can replace Bioware with any developers name and in this case Mass Effect with any other title, the problem I was attempting to highlinght is not a problem with Bioware or EA or Mass Effect solely but with the industry.

I hear ya man.. But personally, I pre-ordered ME3 before even really hearing what it was about.  I'm sold because of the momentum of the first 2 games... and both were ultimately great (faults and all).

[Chunna]

dangermouseuk78 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I've decided to start a petition on the matter.

Please sign and pass it on to your friends and associates who love Mass Effect and want the content to be shared fairly to everyone.

I'll  sign the petition, even tho im getting the CE. In all the disscusions going on only a handfull of people have even questioned the fact that a Major race with in the Mass effect lore has been cut out to be made as DLC. Without question they already been made before release and should been included Day one.

I mean for Christs sake the the Protheans the people who came close against the reapers the single reason why most races took to the stars and whats Bioware do, They belittle them by making them just a Bit of DLC its completely Bizare.

[P1NG]

You fanboi are incredible, once you tell EA/BIOWARE is OK for them to do this guess what? Your going to see more of the game getting cut and resold to you, to the point you pay basically double for the completed product. You all should be furious over the inherent cash grab this is, if you are complacent, they will simply abuse you further.

[CroGamer002]

Arcian wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, do we have any factual evidence, BESIDES the fact he's a Prothean, that ANYTHING he has to say is relevant to the plot, and not just flavor text like Zaeed and Kasumi.

Even his dialog in the leak is just flavor text, and that's a suspect source.

If you can provide FACTUAL evidence, I'll boycott the game along with the rest of you.

That's not the damn point. The point is that development funding and time was spent making him - funding and time that should reasonably have went into the product being sold.

It's like a baker making a 60 dollar cake and then cutting out a piece and offering it for an additional 10 dollar, meaning you have to spend 70 dollars for a cake that costs 60.

Does that seem like a fair practice to you?

Also, his dialogue audio files are ripped from ME3 Demo.

He's obviuosly cut from game.

[Beefcake9000]

crackseed wrote...

However, given that evidence is starting to indicate that he's in the game regardless of if you purchase this or not, it also undercuts some of the complaining going on since if that is true, everyone will interact with him. Merely that DLC purchasers will get a bit more mileage out of his character.

It would be good to have some clarity from BW on this on exactly what the DLC offers. Because if people are right, and he's in the game regardless - doesn't that actually make this worse? Because if he's in the game anyway what exactly are we being charged for?

A single bonus mission maybe? Or more? Lack of specific info will only spiral this ****storm into oblivion. I still wouldn't agree with it though.

[Blablabla79]

Coldburn wrote...

The thing is that if the prothean character is made properly and is a huge part of the game, as it should be, then this whole dlc thing is unacceptable. If the character itself exists in the game, but the dlc just lets you have him as a squadmate, then I'm sort of ok with it.

In the second case I would be wondering why they charge 800 points for it! So I doubt that that's the case. 

[Marionetten]

Arcian wrote...

I've decided to start a petition on the matter.

Please sign and pass it on to your friends and associates who love Mass Effect and want the content to be shared fairly to everyone.

I'll sign.

Unfortunately I don't have much hope of them getting the message until we close our wallets. After all, Origin remains mandatory.

[bullz3ye]

I watched the video then i read the comments from his fanboys that they will be pirating the game instead, doesnt sound like a boycott to me.

[Mclouvins]

EmeraldJunkie wrote...

For those of you who don't understand why people are angry, let me put it this way.
Imagine if George Lucas edited the Star Wars films, so that no one knew that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalkers father. Then said "Okay, will give you those few minutes of footage, that complete a movie, for a price." It's not just 'Bonus' footage, like deleted scenes, its an integral part of the Star Wars movies.
Now, with Mass Effect, the DLC is the same. We're not asking to make the DLC entirely free, just free to those who've purchased the game new, that's all.
(Thats kind of where my metaphore fails, because thats like "We'll give you the scene when you see it in the theatre, but not on the dvd")
Its a Prothean. They've been apart of the story longer than the Reapers have. It was by about half an hour, but still.

That doesn't really work because the relationship is a major part of the narrative's movement. So far at least the Prothean seems to be novital in his capacity as a squadmate, he's not the key to victory or anything. A better example would be the inclusion of deleted scenes which were completed but only put into the director's cut.

[JaegerBane]

Marionetten wrote...
Obsessed? You're the one tossing hyberbole all over the place.

I really would love to see what on earth you consider hyperbole in my posts. Virtually every sinle thing I've responded to has been quoted verbatim from its source.

That said, change doesn't come from keeping your mouth shut and toeing the corporate line. You have to speak your mind and more importantly, as you say, committ. I believe that TB will committ. I know I will committ. Do I expect anyone else to committ? No, but it sure would be nice if gamers took a stance for once and told publishers that this just isn't acceptable. As consumers and fans it's our responsibility to safeguard this medium. 

I think the basic issue is that, frankly, there are plenty of gamers who simply don't care. At the end of the day, its 10 dollars. The decision doesn't even exist for players who're getting the CE. There are plenty of players who clearly have their issues with it, but you'll tend to find the majority of players will probably either buy it without a second thought or simply say 'What, you want me to pay money for this extra? No chance!' and simply stick with the base game. Either way, the only thing that will have any effect on EA's bottom line is a major boycott - and I'm afraid, given past behaviour, I find it unlikely. You'll probably see poor sales of the DLC, but not the game.

[Wulfram]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Considering that's not how Day 1 DLC is made and there was an entire thread already where the process was explained and thus I know better?

Yes, Day 1 DLC -is- a fair practice.

You mean the thread where Mr Priestly talked a load of meaningless blither.

This is stuff that was written at the same time as the game, by the same people, as part of the game.  We know this, because it's in the leaked script.

[Crackseed]

Thoth_Amon wrote...

crackseed wrote...

Oh please. The demands of AAA games now are so much more massive that studios spend years having to create games and often STILL can't finish everything by their launch window. 

You know, like how Diablo 3 is now 6 years in dev and still aways off from release - why? Because they still have issues that are taking time to stamp down. A company with basically unlimited funds. And when it launches? There will still be issues like balance, bugs and things that fans will scream about.

Third rate? No - Bioware is still first rate, but ironically the way we as customers have started to become more and more demanding about the quality and content of our games has placed even more pressure on the developers, who often have to answer to their publishers on how long they can keep games in dev time.

You reference indie games - that's great. I have plenty of great Indie games that I support, but if you ask me how long I play an Indie game vs a AAA title like ME? Not even comparable. Why? Because that budget and time, despite some of the drawbacks and issues, makes for a far more replayable or sustained experience.

Oh no, those poor devs!  Here's an idea, stop passing the buck onto the consumer and screaming "oh it's so expensive to make games!"  Their business model is obviously ****ed if they can't make their money back.  Dial back the budgets, stop spending $30 million on marketing and full CGI TV ads, stop paying Microsoft $40,000 for an Xbox Live patch, start doing variable pricing with different games, start episodic games, go digital download, stop supporting Gamestop and all the other retailers that cannibalize new sales.  The industry needs a giant reset button and it needs it fast.

Blizzard also puts out incredibly polished games at launch.  They know people will wait because no one remembers if the game is late, they only remember if it was bad.

AAA games don't look like the ME3 demo.  That IS third tier.  That running animation, the water, the black crush, and those textures are third tier work.

So you're basically placing the full blame on the Devs? So if they don't like paying MS, they should stop right. Which means they won't see ME supported on the Xbox. Who loses out? The customers. Because now they have to shift to another system because your idea of "Stop paying all this money for this or that" when that's just how the business is now. Is it fair or cool? No, but you are vilifying the developers w/o accepting that like us, they often have to make difficult choices for the developments of their games mandated by our demands, publisher demands and the realities of the gaming world and hardware that supports it.

I do not excuse every decision made by Bioware. Or any other company. But I at least try to understand the bigger picture before I start insulting a company who has given me quality gaming experiences for years.

Also - oh noes, the demo had some texture/bug issues and a weird running animation. Alert the press and grab your torches! Game devs are out to suck us dry and give us crap products! I think I missed the bit were demos should be indicative of their final product but often are made from earlier code and so do have some oddities compared to the full game. I should call my mother and tell her I'm a total loser because I'm not all that upset about it, even though I took the time to tell Bioware I hope they change up Shep's running animation. I even said if it doesn't get changed, I'll probably notice it less and less since you know, I'm more focused on enjoying the game then nitpicking every tiny detail.

The horror

[BatmanPWNS]

I hate DLC but it was bound to happen. EA will do anything for money.

[JaegerBane]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I hear ya man.. But personally, I pre-ordered ME3 before even really hearing what it was about.  I'm sold because of the momentum of the first 2 games... and both were ultimately great (faults and all).

Same here. I preordered so far in advance, knowing full well the CE price, that none of this is even relevant to me.

[El Ejcovero]

hex23 wrote...

If you have no interest in playing "ME3" I'm not sure why you're here.

 
Bioware sinking to the level of Activision and Ubisoft is a big deal.

hex23 wrote... 
If you have interest in playing "ME3", but are boycotting it, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Trust me, no matter how "righteous" you think your cause is the game will still sell well. So basically you're keeping yourself from playing the game for no reason.

 
Buccaneers are pushed.

hex23 wrote...  
As far as the topic at hand, I don't care about DLC either way. If it interests me, I'll buy it. If it doesn't, I won't. Whether or not it was in the game, or should've been in the game, or whatever....who cares? You guys need to take some of this energy and indignation and channel it into more worthy causes than a video game boycott.

So if you walk in to my grocery store, and you buy sliced bread, but the bag is missing slices, by your reasoning, if you like the bread, you will come back to my store and buy the missing slices, when they should have been there in the first place. Instead of walking in to my manager office and asking the obvious question, WHY ARE ALL THE BREAD BAGS MISSING SLICES?

[Mclouvins]

Beefcake9000 wrote...

crackseed wrote...

However, given that evidence is starting to indicate that he's in the game regardless of if you purchase this or not, it also undercuts some of the complaining going on since if that is true, everyone will interact with him. Merely that DLC purchasers will get a bit more mileage out of his character.

It would be good to have some clarity from BW on this on exactly what the DLC offers. Because if people are right, and he's in the game regardless - doesn't that actually make this worse? Because if he's in the game anyway what exactly are we being charged for?

A single bonus mission maybe? Or more? Lack of specific info will only spiral this ****storm into oblivion. I still wouldn't agree with it though.

If he is he would be an npc and you would be paying for the mission and the ability to take him on the ship/use him in combat. It would be like if you could talk ot Zaeed on Omega but couldn't recruit him and do the mission.

[Crackseed]

Beefcake9000 wrote...

crackseed wrote...

However, given that evidence is starting to indicate that he's in the game regardless of if you purchase this or not, it also undercuts some of the complaining going on since if that is true, everyone will interact with him. Merely that DLC purchasers will get a bit more mileage out of his character.

It would be good to have some clarity from BW on this on exactly what the DLC offers. Because if people are right, and he's in the game regardless - doesn't that actually make this worse? Because if he's in the game anyway what exactly are we being charged for?

A single bonus mission maybe? Or more? Lack of specific info will only spiral this ****storm into oblivion. I still wouldn't agree with it though.

Yeah, some confirmation would be nice. It might help ease some of the tension going on now. They did mention we'll have details this week, so let's hope they confirm that Till then, we're mostly spinning our wheels in the mud here with that particular point.

[Forsythia]

This character should've been included in the main game. Why o why do all BioWare games from the last few years have to be surrounded by this pre-order exclusive items, promotional items, and day one DLC BS. Yes, that's rhetorical, we all know the answer. Sadly.

It makes it really hard to enjoy the months/weeks before release. I'm sure the main game will be awesome, but come on, sometimes I wonder why I should even bother with BioWare's games with all this crap surrounding it. I just want to put down €60,00 and have the full experience. I don't want to have to pay €10,00 extra, pre-order at at least 2 different stores and buy 3274295 promotional items just to have the full game on release. That's madness.

[rumbalumba]

Cobra5 wrote...



Yes.

You are looking at it as a cutoff point, which does not exist in terms of development money. You are also looking at it as the DLC money is paying just for the DLC, which is not the case. The prothean (etc) did not cost any more or less to develop then the rest of the game I'm sure.

See:

1. The price of developing a AAA game is going up, and up, because they are getting larger and larger.
a) Mass Effect 3 is larger then Mass Effect 2, etc
b)This is seen in the industry as a whole by games like Call of Duty and Battlefield, Uncharted, etc. Successive games include more content and the industry as a whole continues this trend.
c) "Larger" or "More content" does not necessarily mean "longer game". More polished or indepth content can take longer to develop, or having more content within the same spane of time (For example, successive Call of Duty games having more guns)

2. The overall consumer base has not increased in proportion to the raising costs
a) Year over year profits are down in almost every publisher
The only publishers continueing to turn a profit or to break even are ones adapting to the industry:

3. The publishers and developers must adpat to this industry in one of three ways:
-Stop increasing the cost of developing a AAA game, resulting in a smaller game content-wise over all (IE Witcher series, which run on smaller budgets)
-Raise the price of the game (IE $70 Call of Duty, Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2...)
-Increase the consumer base (IE Remaking Syndicate and XCom as FPSs)

Bioware went with "Raise the price of the game". You are arguing for "Stop increasing the cost", which would result in a smaller game.

Then as an aside point I would like to say instead of raising the price to $70, they gave the consumer the choice to stay at the old price point, which competitors (CoD, Starcraft) have not.

wait..wut? ME3 is larger but it does not mean it's more expensive. they most likely used the same textures for the ground, buildings, same lighting effect, same everything and only applied graphical tweaks. they already have the engine up and running, so most likely even if it were a larger game it wouldn't have cost Bioware more money to build. they already had the foundation from the last two games, everything already has a code, they do not need to build engines or things. they do not need to invent systems like cover or shooting or enemy AI patterns since they already have those. they just tweak them. and tweaking is a far lesser task than building things.

profits are down because back then they were making $1 million games and selling it for $60. of course profits will go down since now it's a $20 million game and still selling it for $60. but instead of looking at it as past = profit, present = no profit, it's more like past = tons of profit and present = not as much profit but there's still profit. it's not like Bioware or EA is losing money over this game, they will make a profit (and a huge one). the fact is, companies just want to make the profit that they were making 10 years ago, and the only way to do that is by charging the consumers more. we are not the ones stuck in the past, they are!

[aridor1570]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

This is too far.

I'm not buying ME3. They are ripping us off. They are charging full price for an unfinished product, then charging extra for that unfinished content

I'm going to pirate it. 100% content for 0% of the price.

It's high time developers started blaming THEMSELVES for piracy.

You've already said you're not buying the game for other reasons, now you're just trying too hard.

[RiouHotaru]

Mesina2 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, do we have any factual evidence, BESIDES the fact he's a Prothean, that ANYTHING he has to say is relevant to the plot, and not just flavor text like Zaeed and Kasumi.

Even his dialog in the leak is just flavor text, and that's a suspect source.

If you can provide FACTUAL evidence, I'll boycott the game along with the rest of you.

That's not the damn point. The point is that development funding and time was spent making him - funding and time that should reasonably have went into the product being sold.

It's like a baker making a 60 dollar cake and then cutting out a piece and offering it for an additional 10 dollar, meaning you have to spend 70 dollars for a cake that costs 60.

Does that seem like a fair practice to you?

Also, his dialogue audio files are ripped from ME3 Demo.

He's obviuosly cut from game.

Nope, I'll quote from another thread since everyone seems to be forgetting this:

Stanley Woo wrote...

Usually, DLC is developed late in production by either a different team or by some of the original team who may not be needed for the main game anymore. Writers and some designers, for example, are most needed at the start and the middle of production, and less so at the end of a project.

Because it is a bonus and an extra, it has a slightly lower priority than the main game. The main game has to be content-locked and the game sent for certification anywhere between 2-8 weeks before the street date. If a game fails certification, whatever caused it to fail must get fixed, which means the entire thing must be tested again. The game must be certified all over again from the beginning because the game on disc has changed.

During the certification process, some folks can be working on a day 1 patch or moved to other projects (they're certainly not sitting idle). They could also be working to finish the DLC that will be made available on day 1. Because it is downloadable content, there is no physical media to manufacture and distribute, which means the DLC can be finished closer to the street date. It still has to be certified, but the process is much faster because it is a) not on physical media and much, much smaller than a full-sized game. Appearance packs and weapons are compartively smaller and simpler than story and character-based DLC, and people and effort are scheduled accordingly.

So, like a meal order in a kitchen, the team tries to schedule things so that everything is finished in time to come out together.

Kasumi had voice files in ME2 before she was released, as did Liara to tease at LotSB.  It's called placeholders.

[piemanz]

Mclouvins wrote...

Kuei_Jin wrote...

Calling out TB on not boycotting Deus Ex with their Tong DLC which was retailer preorder pacific, which you could not even get afterwards. A bit hypocritical.

That's sort of the thing, he's trying to cherry pick what is acceptable and what isn't. Weapons are but a character isn't, which is just arbitrary. What if this was a generic human mercenary, sort of like Zaeed, would it be acceptable then?

I think he was pretty clear. You could play DE:HR and not really worry too much about the tong mission. But ME3 without a prothean when you know one is available?, a Prothean, the race thats so intergral to the series and has never been seen before. It's a cheap shot from EA/Bioware, because they know that anyone invested in the series will almost definatly want it.

Modifié par piemanz, 22 février 2012 - 07:16 .

[Crackseed]

El Ejcovero wrote...

hex23 wrote...

If you have no interest in playing "ME3" I'm not sure why you're here.

 
Bioware sinking to the level of Activision and Ubisoft is a big deal.

hex23 wrote... 
If you have interest in playing "ME3", but are boycotting it, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Trust me, no matter how "righteous" you think your cause is the game will still sell well. So basically you're keeping yourself from playing the game for no reason.

 
Buccaneers are pushed.

hex23 wrote...  
As far as the topic at hand, I don't care about DLC either way. If it interests me, I'll buy it. If it doesn't, I won't. Whether or not it was in the game, or should've been in the game, or whatever....who cares? You guys need to take some of this energy and indignation and channel it into more worthy causes than a video game boycott.

So if you walk in to my grocery store, and you buy sliced bread, but the bag is missing slices, by your reasoning, if you like the bread, you will come back to my store and buy the missing slices, when they should have been there in the first place. Instead of walking in to my manager office and asking the obvious question, WHY ARE ALL THE BREAD BAGS MISSING SLICES?

Did you just compare game DLC to shopping for food, which is a required part of, you know, living IRL? I think you did. Not a strong point in your argument there.

Games are not necessary to live. So your point should center on something else similar - not a required part of everyone's normal life cycle.