1790 réponses à ce sujet

[Eain]

Tazzmission wrote...

Eain wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Eain wrote...

For anyone not getting this:

If you allow developers to get away with deciding which pre-release content they sell as a launch title and which gets sold as additional DLC, then you are effectively allowing them to RAISE THE PRICE OF THE FULL GAME.

Don't you people get it? EA would love nothing more than to charge you 80 bucks for a game at launch day, and if they get away with a single piece of 10 bucks launch DLC then next year they'll be getting away with two pieces because they'll just try keep pushing the boundary.

This is business strategy 101. They want to see at which point your brains activate and you realise that you're actually just shelling out way more cash for a full game than you would've done five years ago.

No it's not.  There's absolutely no evidence of this.  Just because a potential for abuse exists doesn't mean it's inevitable.

Except all similar instances throughout gaming history where exactly this has happened. Remember when Bobby Kotick told people that if he could squeeze people for 500 bucks through a 50 dollar purchase he would? And now we have CoD Elite.

Don't think EA is any bloody different.

two diffrent enities dude. quit using cod as a excuse for your argument.

Fine. Final Fantasy XIII-2.

Now good night.

[Draconis6666]

El Ejcovero wrote...


And if you have been reading the opposing sides arguments you will see this is abotu principle and ethical business towards customers, not really about content.

Some of it is yes and THOSE are valid concerns, but there are also alot of people just crying that its cut content because its a prothean and has to be important because of that. I dont have a problem with people arguing against day 1 DLC as a business practice, other than the fact that its basicaly exactly what happens with car sales and no one screams at the car dealer when they buy a car and have to pay extra for options that were built into the car. 

Something as serious as a boycott of a product needs to have serious grounds, if your boycotting against the business practice thats fine, dont boycott because its a prothean and your sure that means its important and they are depriving you of something.

[Tazzmission]

Aargh12 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
No it's not.  There's absolutely no evidence of this.  Just because a potential for abuse exists doesn't mean it's inevitable.

Sure, and companies like Activision or EA won't abuse the system. They already are doing it. And you thank them for it.

are you seriously deaf or blind? all you people ever argue is omg there going the cod right when in fact they havent.

i am starting to question if you ever even played cod now you seem to be mis informed of it

[Daywalker315]

Jimmie Galo wrote...

I just want to play the dlc. Whats with all the drama? >sig

Yay, another calm person! Glad I'm not the only one. The thing wouldn't even fit on the Xbox discs if they wanted it to anyway as they're probably so crammed to fit SP and MP together. If they want to charge $10, that's their prerogative. Some people might not be happy about it but if they're making it optional DLC it's a safe bet it won't be integral to the plot or change the narrative much. They're counting on the response of "but it's a LIVE PROTHEAN" to sell DLC. They're going to capitalize on the "ooooooh" factor and from a business standpoint, I don't blame them one bit.

[Tazzmission]

Eain wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Eain wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Eain wrote...

For anyone not getting this:

If you allow developers to get away with deciding which pre-release content they sell as a launch title and which gets sold as additional DLC, then you are effectively allowing them to RAISE THE PRICE OF THE FULL GAME.

Don't you people get it? EA would love nothing more than to charge you 80 bucks for a game at launch day, and if they get away with a single piece of 10 bucks launch DLC then next year they'll be getting away with two pieces because they'll just try keep pushing the boundary.

This is business strategy 101. They want to see at which point your brains activate and you realise that you're actually just shelling out way more cash for a full game than you would've done five years ago.

No it's not.  There's absolutely no evidence of this.  Just because a potential for abuse exists doesn't mean it's inevitable.

Except all similar instances throughout gaming history where exactly this has happened. Remember when Bobby Kotick told people that if he could squeeze people for 500 bucks through a 50 dollar purchase he would? And now we have CoD Elite.

Don't think EA is any bloody different.

two diffrent enities dude. quit using cod as a excuse for your argument.

Fine. Final Fantasy XIII-2.

Now good night.

your a moron. ff3-2 has nothing to do with mass effect or ea for that matter.


next?

[LinksOcarina]

tsaio wrote...

The PLC wrote...

Unbelievable that some people are actually defending this.. wow.

some people are mentally challenged. please be kind to those less fortunate.

See, I can be entitled to my opinion too, but I won't insult someone with inept bile and a non-sequetor that doesn't push things forward. But since your so insistant on being ignorant to a few things, let me break this down as easy as possible.

1. We knew this was coming based on past business practices by Bioware.

2. Was announced a year ahead of time this would be a DLC character given out for free as well. 

3. Was said to be an exclusive character and mission at the time, but the language changed to bonus character and mission as we go on. BioWare and EA decided to make it available to everyone who didnt get the collectors edition, and it makes sense because they figured people would be upset if it was only available for one group exclusively. 

4. This was a busniess decision, one that a company is allowed to make and one that consumers can complain about as much as they like, but in the end the company is entitled to make them based on the needs of the company. 

5. You have no way of knowing the character will be anything more but an extra, or was a part of the original development of the game. yes he may have been in the script and have concept art, but for all we know this was planned DLC since the get-go. And yes, that doesn't mean it was a part of original production, because production changes as a dev cycle goes on. And on that note,

6. Even if the character had a major role to play, they certainly do not now. You complain about how you want the game to be complete. Well I have a simple solution. Leave the ****ing boards here and don't buy the damn game. In fact, stop buying games in general because 90% of the market today focuses on Downloadable content as a way to help developers and publishers stay alive in a economically harsh enviorment.

Oh yes, no matter what Mass Effect 3 will be a failure financially  because the upwards of 20 million spent on it will likely never be recouped just by fans alone. The series has made over $7 million dollars based on two games. That barely covers the cost of development for all three, salaries for voice actors, mixers, graphic artists doing rendering, creating mechanics in the unreal engine, renting out the unreal engine, advertising, and so forth. Creating DLC gives developers and publishers extra revenue and helps in fixing problems the main game may have had. Day one DLC is often used as incentive for loyalty to customers, yet has a stigma of being things put in the main game and taken out to gouge players for more cash. 

7. News flash, those who are getting the character for free paid $20 bucks to do so, along with art books, soundtracks, other extra bits and so on. They chose to do that knowing full well what was in it. Who the character was or is in regards to the game doesn't friggin matter.

So is it a perfect solution, no. I miss things like the cerberus network where it was free for new purchases, but people can't have nice things by bemoaning that.  Either way Bioware is screwed because no matter what, people will complain it seems, and its just sad at this point. 

One more thing...both of you, go f*ck yourselves. If you are going to act like self-righteous mouth-breathers then why the hell should I treat you with a modicrum of respect anymore. So with that in mind, go away, no one gives a damn about your lack of an argument here. 

But I am also entitled to say such a thing, since you did it I guess.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 22 février 2012 - 10:12 .

[Draconis6666]

wrdnshprd wrote...

was kasumi day 1 dlc?  NO?  thought so.

Thats irrelevant to the argument thoubh since this particular argument is about having critical plot characters be DLC, in that regards it doesnt matter when they are released.

[Williamkane117]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Aargh12 wrote...

The PLC wrote...

Unbelievable that some people are actually defending this.. wow.

And then we're ending with more Horse Armor type DLCs, monthly subscirptions, paying for all DLC up-front and releasing game every year with slightly changed weapons stats and plot*


*Just guess.

yet you pay extra for options in your car, pay the government every month to be able to drive it, pay "subscription fees" in the form of gas and maintinance, buy new ones every 5-10 years that are just upgraded versions of the old ones with new paint jobs and shiny new looks.


This business model is not unique to games and is not a recent thing, yet no one is out boycotting or ranting about automotive sales, or practices, or the costs of maintaining their car, people hardly even complain about gas prices.

That is an absurd comparison. Vastly different industries with vastly different business models. Im not going to argue about that anyway. 
http://en.wikipedia....tio_ad_absurdum 

 Anyway from a moral standpoint I cannot support this, even though I pre ordered the collectors edition. It is unethical to market and sell something that was made before launch that is not on the disc. When someone pays full price for a game they should be able to expect to be able to play the game to the FULLEST. 

The fact that its a living prothean means that it has the potential (not saying that it is) to be a huge part of the story with many interesting and/or key plot points and being an RPG, the story is pretty important to the overall experiance of the game I would think!However thats beside the point ,the fact that it was made before the game launches means everybody should be entitled to it when they pay full price for a new game. 
Just to be clear, I am NOT complaining about the price. If it was post launch DLC, then that would be fine. I would happily pay for it as I am not entitled to it when I buy a new game.

I will most probably boycott which means some lucky guy will be able to get my ME3 CE. Its a true shame as I loved Mass Effect. But I cannot support this. At least I have other games to play.....

[FoxShadowblade]

tsaio wrote...

bioware, when your precious biodrones are quickly becoming the minority on your forums, you know you've got a problem.

One way to turn most fans into drolling, raving, rabies-infested, insult-spewing amoebas is to offer anything you said was "Exclusive" to other fans.

Point and case: Gears 3 Retail Exclusive Characters. Now offered in the DLC as "Limited Edition" versions.
Gears of War Forums: Now full of...previously described undesirables.

Solution: Burn undesireables with fire, or just tell them to grow the hell up. Either way suitable, telling them to grow up more satisfying to ego.

[Tazzmission]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Jimmie Galo wrote...

I just want to play the dlc. Whats with all the drama? >sig

Yay, another calm person! Glad I'm not the only one. The thing wouldn't even fit on the Xbox discs if they wanted it to anyway as they're probably so crammed to fit SP and MP together. If they want to charge $10, that's their prerogative. Some people might not be happy about it but if they're making it optional DLC it's a safe bet it won't be integral to the plot or change the narrative much. They're counting on the response of "but it's a LIVE PROTHEAN" to sell DLC. They're going to capitalize on the "ooooooh" factor and from a business standpoint, I don't blame them one bit.

i was hping for this game to be on 3 discs believe it or not. but 2 is still always good:D

[Eain]

Tazzmission wrote...


your a moron. ff3-2 has nothing to do with mass effect or ea for that matter.


next?

OH MY GOD HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE WORD DEDUCTION.

Holy ****.

[CDRSkyShepard]

N7Infernox wrote...

But what about the people who would pay for a CE, but couldn't get one in time? Or had their pre-order cheated from them? 

I dunno, life isn't always fair? I reserved mine back in June while I was working, and had an $80 chunk set aside after saving up a few paychecks. Now, if you get cheated out of yours, that's just horrid luck, and I'm sorry. But, that doesn't mean that the special DLC character for the CE should be made available to everyone who didn't reserve a copy of the CE.

It seems like when everyone figured out that special CE character was the Prothean, that's when crap hit the fan... Just because he's Prothean doesn't mean you're not gonna be able to save the galaxy without him.

[Chaoz1994]

Draconis6666 wrote...

dangermouseuk78 wrote...


Im not yelling Nor metally challenge thankyou very much, However having read the books, comics and gotten into the world of Mass Effect i cant believe that Living Prothean wouldnt be important to the story. if they are not important i cant  even see why they made the DLC apart from cashing.

Im not against day one DLC im just saying from a story point and how i would expect a Character such as Prothean to be part of it.

Thats Just my Opinion and your very much welcome to yours as well.

Because you have no proof that he adds anything actualy relevant to the plot of the game to make him super important, sure hes a Living Prothean im sure he can tell us alot about the Protheans. The game is not about the Protheans its about the Reapers. Suppose he was put in stasis before the Reapers even arrived,, what useful knowledge would he have then in relation to the Reapers. Hed have none, making him even less useful than Vigil who was a limited VI program. There are plenty of reasons that the simple fact he is a Prothean are not valid enough of a concern to scream for a boycot of the product and insist that he is absolutly crucial to the game.

If you want to boycott a game over day 1 DLC then go for it thats at least a valid concern with logical arguments against it. I have no problem with people who want to boycott for that reason, but boycotting the game because the DLC character is a prothean is not a good reason.

Reading the leaked script he is by no means a minor character. I'm very tempted to boycott this game for this reason, and if it was a lesser game I would not hesitate. Sure, Zaeed was Day one DLC BUT FREE FOR ALL FULL RETAIL COPIES. This is forcing people to pay for non-trivial content that has a genuine impact on the lore and story. I find it disgraceful that we are being milked in this way. Sure, I'll buy DLC after launch, but none of it was anywhere near as important to the story as this guy is.

Look at the mass effect 2 DLC - Shadow Broker explained how liara became the shadow broker, but you will learn that she became the shadow broker in ME3 anyway. Kasumi was just a little adventure somewhere else, as were all the flying tank missions, and Arrival set the stage for ME3, but wasn't that important to the overall story. Nowhere there is anyone as important as this character. I mean, it's like EA said, right, who could we add that the largest number of people would want, and then lets make them pay for it.

[Daywalker315]

obie191970 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


Which has nothing to do with the actual plot of ME 2

It has everything to do with the plot when it's going to effect outcomes in ME3, but this is getting off track, the plain fact of the matter is protheans have been pretty central to the plot in both ME1&ME2 the latter being we learn what happened them, now we find there is a soul survivor of the prothean species, this is not the freaking robotic dog we're talking about, but a race who managed to send a warning message over 50'000 years, a race that sacrificed the last of their kind in order that the message might be delivered.

Apparently the character is already in the game, DLC or not.  Now suppose you get all the pertinent information off of him in stock ME3 and with the DLC you get to to add him as a squad member and he has an extra side mission that is not crucial to the main canon.  I'm obviously guessing here, but it makes sense.

That's my thought too. I personally think you'll run into Prothy at some point in the game whether you have him or not. Any important things to the plot will be settled like that.

Take Liara in ME2. She was there and you got to reunite. She gave some info about how your body was recovered and all that. Then once you got the DLC, you could bring it up to her via dialogue and start the mission. I don't think this will be any different (personal opinion). I think all of the important plot points will be handled by Prothy and if you have the DLC, you'll have the option to convince him to join your squad.

I could be way off base but technically, if it's like that, wouldn't everybody KINDA be blowing this out of proportion?

[Aargh12]

Tazzmission wrote...
are you seriously deaf or blind? all you people ever argue is omg there going the cod right when in fact they havent.

Pk, fine, look at BF3. Look at how ME2 DLC was abused. Look at Oblivion and ridiculous prices for, well, nothing. Look at that train simulator on Steam that has DLCs worth of 1200€, look at how THQ is making DLCs for their games (DOW: Retribution and Space Marine for example).

i am starting to question if you ever even played cod now you seem to be mis informed of it

You missed. I played every single one CoD ever released on major console. Every single one. And I don't really see how the game (the engine for example) or the core gameplay changes between iteration. The main changes are something you could do in a couple of months.

[Mako Zalos]

Maybe the mods should just close this thread, I mean no one is really discussing the reason why it was made, to discuss the issue of it being released early on Xbox Live. Now it's basically a Bioware hate thread, and the name calling has been going on for awhile. Honestly I'm all for people discussing and voicing their opinions, but when it just starts turning into insults it's time to pick up sticks and move the hell on.

[obie191970]

Williamkane117 wrote...

 Anyway from a moral standpoint I cannot support this, even though I pre ordered the collectors edition. It is unethical to market and sell something that was made before launch that is not on the disc. When someone pays full price for a game they should be able to expect to be able to play the game to the FULLEST. 

So when you purchased the CE and it advertised an additional squad member and mission, you assumed that it wasn't really additional and everyone would get it for free?

[RiouHotaru]

We already know from the leak, that the Prothean doesn't offer any plot-critical information. Merely additional backstory perspective and flavor text. Why are we still arguing over a character whose impact on the plot will be minimal, at BEST?

[Tazzmission]

Eain wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...


your a moron. ff3-2 has nothing to do with mass effect or ea for that matter.


next?

OH MY GOD HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE WORD DEDUCTION.

Holy ****.

your running out of excuses there buddy.

face it your argument is just as flawed as your logic and thought pattern


i would really like to see if you yourself would tell the people who finance you no i wont charge for dlc and see what happens because guess what they fund your butt and they can sure as hell kick you to the curb 

[Atakuma]

This is inexcusable, I will not support a company that willfully rips off their customers.

[schnydz]

Draconis6666 wrote...

dangermouseuk78 wrote...


Im not yelling Nor metally challenge thankyou very much, However having read the books, comics and gotten into the world of Mass Effect i cant believe that Living Prothean wouldnt be important to the story. if they are not important i cant  even see why they made the DLC apart from cashing.

Im not against day one DLC im just saying from a story point and how i would expect a Character such as Prothean to be part of it.

Thats Just my Opinion and your very much welcome to yours as well.

Because you have no proof that he adds anything actualy relevant to the plot of the game to make him super important, sure hes a Living Prothean im sure he can tell us alot about the Protheans. The game is not about the Protheans its about the Reapers. Suppose he was put in stasis before the Reapers even arrived,, what useful knowledge would he have then in relation to the Reapers. Hed have none, making him even less useful than Vigil who was a limited VI program. There are plenty of reasons that the simple fact he is a Prothean are not valid enough of a concern to scream for a boycot of the product and insist that he is absolutly crucial to the game.

If you want to boycott a game over day 1 DLC then go for it thats at least a valid concern with logical arguments against it. I have no problem with people who want to boycott for that reason, but boycotting the game because the DLC character is a prothean is not a good reason.

Seriously. The problem is that both arguments (prothean char & consumer rape) are relevant. So when is enough, enough? What is your tipping point? 

[Draconis6666]

Williamkane117 wrote...

That is an absurd comparison. Vastly different industries with vastly different business models. Im not going to argue about that anyway. 

 Anyway from a moral standpoint I cannot support this, even though I pre ordered the collectors edition. It is unethical to market and sell something that was made before launch that is not on the disc. When someone pays full price for a game they should be able to expect to be able to play the game to the FULLEST.

 


Thats the point though your entire argument is that different industries should be held to different ethical and moral standards than others which is a rediculous argument in the first place. If there is no uniformity in ethical and moral standards of business the standards themselves become pointless because they are just arbitrary systems put in place by whoever decides what the standards are to fit their personal desires for that industry. You cannot expect a business that makes games to be held to a different standard in terms of how they market and sell their products than any other industry on an ethical or moral standpoint.

Also thats not Reductio ad Absurdum anyway.

[AngryKrogan777]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

N7Infernox wrote...

But what about the people who would pay for a CE, but couldn't get one in time? Or had their pre-order cheated from them? 

 that doesn't mean that the special DLC character for the CE should be made available to everyone who didn't reserve a copy of the CE.

Go to hell. I'll send you there myself.

[eye basher]

look man i bought my collectors edition in january of 2011 is already paid for and i don't want the prothean his a gimmick character and that's not my thing all i need to know about the protheans is that they dealt with the citadel trap and that there dead.

[dangermouseuk78]

Draconis6666 wrote...

dangermouseuk78 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

tsaio wrote...

The PLC wrote...

Unbelievable that some people are actually defending this.. wow.

some people are mentally challenged. please be kind to those less fortunate.

from what i can see the mentally challenged are the ones who keep yelling that its got to be vital to the story simply because its a prothean not the ones defending what is a widely accepted business practice in multiple other industries that no one rants and complains about.

Im not yelling Nor metally challenge thankyou very much, However having read the books, comics and gotten into the world of Mass Effect i cant believe that Living Prothean wouldnt be important to the story. if they are not important i cant  even see why they made the DLC apart from cashing.

Im not against day one DLC im just saying from a story point and how i would expect a Character such as Prothean to be part of it.

Thats Just my Opinion and your very much welcome to yours as well.

Because for one you have no idea if any information he provides isnt already provided elsewhere, just because he is a living prothean doesnt mean he will provide any important information to the main plot of the Reapers. Suppose he was placed in Stasis before the reapers even arrived, what useful information would he have then? Does it really help to know the daily habits of Protheans? or other trivial information? There are plenty of reasons he might be of little to no help. Its all conjecture without being able to actualy play them and a rediculous reason to scream for a boycott. 

If you want to use Day 1 DLC as a reason then ok sure thats got plenty of valid points, but screaming that because it a prothean its super important and has to be cut content is rediculous.

Never Once said i knew what happens in the DLC, I just said from my experince within the books and other sources how highy the Protheans are regarded and finding a living would be a big thing. He could of been one of the ones that went to Citadel, one of the Scentist Vigil mentions no one knows what happened to them. They could have important Knowledge as they could of been working on something to fight the Reapers.


Anyways as i said its my opinion from reading the books and playing the games, Im only saying how i would expect the Prothean should be and end of the day hopefully the DLC will not have them as some lumbering idiot.

But still in my opinion they deserve to be more than Just DLC.