147 réponses à ce sujet

[darkblade]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Anyone who suggests a nerf to pistols is clearly a idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

Anyone who thinks a sidearm should be the best weapon is a shooter is clearly an idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

^See anyone can talk stupid, i dont even have a degree in Bulls***, im just improvising.

[TexasToast712]

darkblade wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Anyone who suggests a nerf to pistols is clearly a idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

Anyone who thinks a sidearm should be the best weapon is a shooter is clearly an idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

^See anyone can talk stupid, i dont even have a degree in Bulls***, im just improvising.

These are your momma's concealed .22. These are hand cannons. Say it with me, HAND CANNON. M3 predator being the only exception and it is the weakest of them all.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 25 février 2012 - 04:38 .

[Killahead]

TexasToast712 wrote...
These are your momma's concealed .22. These are hand cannons. Say it with me, HAND CANNON. M3 predator being the only exception and it is the weakest of them all.

This is not an argument, it has no relevance.

Pistol defenders need to tell us why this is alright:

Pistols:
- Are effective at all ranges.
- Allow you to have +200% recharge speed.

You can have deadly guns and spam powers.

A shotgun user has a deadly gun, but only at close/medium range, and has a longer recharge time.
A player who chooses to have with him both a shotgun and an assault rifle, making him effective at all ranges, has an even longer recharge time.

But you could just choose the pistol. Which I, and an increasing number of players, do. You should have to sacrifice something. That's balance, and it enforces teamwork.

I would love to use my Asari adept and use my powers if I had a pistol that really didn't take care of business. I would call in the shotgun guy or the Krogan to help me finish the job. Right now, I can be a super soldier with the Asari adept, spamming my powers and killing the enemies off with ease, using any of the pistols. They're all good. That's not cool, it offers no challenge. I like a challenge. I like teamwork.

[TexasToast712]

Killahead wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...
These are your momma's concealed .22. These are hand cannons. Say it with me, HAND CANNON. M3 predator being the only exception and it is the weakest of them all.

This is not an argument, it has no relevance.

Pistol defenders need to tell us why this is alright:

Pistols:
- Are effective at all ranges.
- Allow you to have +200% recharge speed.

You can have deadly guns and spam powers.

A shotgun user has a deadly gun, but only at close/medium range, and has a longer recharge time.
A player who chooses to have with him both a shotgun and an assault rifle, making him effective at all ranges, has an even longer recharge time.

But you could just choose the pistol. Which I, and an increasing number of players, do. You should have to sacrifice something. That's balance, and it enforces teamwork.

I would love to use my Asari adept and use my powers if I had a pistol that really didn't take care of business. I would call in the shotgun guy or the Krogan to help me finish the job. Right now, I can be a super soldier with the Asari adept, spamming my powers and killing the enemies off with ease, using any of the pistols. They're all good. That's not cool, it offers no challenge. I like a challenge. I like teamwork.

- Limited ammo (Problematic when you can't make it to a refill box)
- Inablilty to deal with a rushing horde. (will be more important on reaper enemies.)
- Less chance of staggering enemies (Deals with rushing enemies)
- Less damage than most weapons.

If you think Pistols are too strong damage wise then you are just playing bronze.

This isn't some MLG gametype. Balance isn't of utmost importance in a Coop only game and as things are now it is very balanced.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 25 février 2012 - 04:59 .

[PD ORTA]

Killahead wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...
These are your momma's concealed .22. These are hand cannons. Say it with me, HAND CANNON. M3 predator being the only exception and it is the weakest of them all.

This is not an argument, it has no relevance.

Pistol defenders need to tell us why this is alright:

Pistols:
- Are effective at all ranges.
- Allow you to have +200% recharge speed.

You can have deadly guns and spam powers.

A shotgun user has a deadly gun, but only at close/medium range, and has a longer recharge time.
A player who chooses to have with him both a shotgun and an assault rifle, making him effective at all ranges, has an even longer recharge time.

But you could just choose the pistol. Which I, and an increasing number of players, do. You should have to sacrifice something. That's balance, and it enforces teamwork.

I would love to use my Asari adept and use my powers if I had a pistol that really didn't take care of business. I would call in the shotgun guy or the Krogan to help me finish the job. Right now, I can be a super soldier with the Asari adept, spamming my powers and killing the enemies off with ease, using any of the pistols. They're all good. That's not cool, it offers no challenge. I like a challenge. I like teamwork.

Agreed. Pistols should have a big damage drop at long range.

[TexasToast712]

PD ORTA wrote...

Killahead wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...
These are your momma's concealed .22. These are hand cannons. Say it with me, HAND CANNON. M3 predator being the only exception and it is the weakest of them all.

This is not an argument, it has no relevance.

Pistol defenders need to tell us why this is alright:

Pistols:
- Are effective at all ranges.
- Allow you to have +200% recharge speed.

You can have deadly guns and spam powers.

A shotgun user has a deadly gun, but only at close/medium range, and has a longer recharge time.
A player who chooses to have with him both a shotgun and an assault rifle, making him effective at all ranges, has an even longer recharge time.

But you could just choose the pistol. Which I, and an increasing number of players, do. You should have to sacrifice something. That's balance, and it enforces teamwork.

I would love to use my Asari adept and use my powers if I had a pistol that really didn't take care of business. I would call in the shotgun guy or the Krogan to help me finish the job. Right now, I can be a super soldier with the Asari adept, spamming my powers and killing the enemies off with ease, using any of the pistols. They're all good. That's not cool, it offers no challenge. I like a challenge. I like teamwork.

Agreed. Pistols should have a big damage drop at long range.

No. I don't see why I'm even arguing. Bioware won't listen to these absurd cries anyway. OUT

[PD ORTA]

TexasToast712 wrote...

PD ORTA wrote...

Killahead wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...
These are your momma's concealed .22. These are hand cannons. Say it with me, HAND CANNON. M3 predator being the only exception and it is the weakest of them all.

This is not an argument, it has no relevance.

Pistol defenders need to tell us why this is alright:

Pistols:
- Are effective at all ranges.
- Allow you to have +200% recharge speed.

You can have deadly guns and spam powers.

A shotgun user has a deadly gun, but only at close/medium range, and has a longer recharge time.
A player who chooses to have with him both a shotgun and an assault rifle, making him effective at all ranges, has an even longer recharge time.

But you could just choose the pistol. Which I, and an increasing number of players, do. You should have to sacrifice something. That's balance, and it enforces teamwork.

I would love to use my Asari adept and use my powers if I had a pistol that really didn't take care of business. I would call in the shotgun guy or the Krogan to help me finish the job. Right now, I can be a super soldier with the Asari adept, spamming my powers and killing the enemies off with ease, using any of the pistols. They're all good. That's not cool, it offers no challenge. I like a challenge. I like teamwork.

Agreed. Pistols should have a big damage drop at long range.

No. I don't see why I'm even arguing. Bioware won't listen to these absurd cries anyway. OUT

Maybe they won't but they should. For example a Phalanx or Carnifex with a scope are both superior as sniper rifles compared to a Viper, IMO thats just wrong. Add the low weight on top of that, pistols have no real downside.

Modifié par PD ORTA, 25 février 2012 - 05:09 .

[Adhin]

@ The Claymore needs a damage/accuracy buff to compensate for weight & clip size.

LOL Man with DMG + Choke I can 'snipe' with the Claymore. That **** doesn't need any real boost. That was on rank 1 too. Thing just gets more and more scary with each subsequent unlock. Shotguns a damn beast and well worth its weight.

Hell it'll let you tare apart and atlas almost as easily as a Widow.

[sirjimmus86]

Wait and see how these classes and overpowered/underpowered abilities fare against enemies other than just plain old Cerberus with their mostly 'straightforward' - guns, snipers, grenades, smoke cover + the phantom.

Stasis doesn't work on Atlas, maybe it won't work on the entire Reaper army either. Maybe engineers will come to dominate against them. Maybe pistols won't be powerful enough to hurt them.

Maybe there will be flying enemies or ones that steal your guns or who knows.

Nobody who is making balance suggestions, especially to nerf classes/powers because right now they are the most obvious ones to use to easily beat Cerberus, knows what will be different in the full game, so their idea of balance on this limited exposure demo may end up making them look like fools later on.

[Peer of the Empire]

Buff all shotguns
Buff Revenant

[Navasha]

You will never be able to "balance" classes against one another. Different player skills are far more meaningful in how effective a class is.

[Sabresandiego]

I agree with all of your suggested balance changes. I want to add in a few things.

1. Asari Adepts and Salarian Infiltrators are overpowered

2. Vanguards can exploit a bug to make them invulnerable for short periods by doing nova cancels. This needs to be fixed.

3. Human soldiers feel weak compared to other classes

4. Pistols are the best weapons, and the lightest

5. There needs to be a way to buy items you want without having to get random crap every time.

[D.Kain]

Guys, let's buff other weapons not nurf pistols ok?

I love Carnifex I do, but when I play a soldier and revenant is so weak I start crying. So let's buff revenant and all other weak AR/Shotguns/SR hm? If you just nerf carnifex that doesn't help.

Modifié par D.Kain, 25 février 2012 - 07:36 .

[darkblade]

TexasToast712 wrote...

darkblade wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Anyone who suggests a nerf to pistols is clearly a idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

Anyone who thinks a sidearm should be the best weapon is a shooter is clearly an idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

^See anyone can talk stupid, i dont even have a degree in Bulls***, im just improvising.

These are your momma's concealed .22. These are hand cannons. Say it with me, HAND CANNON. M3 predator being the only exception and it is the weakest of them all.

Well you are gone from the thread but i still need to adress this and why its irrelevent.

They are heavy pistols analogus of a the relation ship to a modern day .357 magnum .45 magnum, and .50 (etc) magnum round firing pistols over over the 9mm and other none magnum. Yes the can do more damage withing about 50m (if youre using a D.eagle). where in lies the problem with mass effect 3s pistols mostly the carnifex. 

That singular gun replaces all pistols, all smgs, and the viper sniper rifle. Id have no problem with it if it couldnt have a scope and had a decent damage drop out range.

The other 2 pistols in the demo are fine.

[Roros5e]

I quickly gravitated to only pistols, and I never ever run out of ammo. Between their accuracy ensuring no shots go to waste and thermal clips being the most common and "fodder" reward, I usually don't have to resupply between every wave.

[darkblade]

sirjimmus86 wrote...

Wait and see how these classes and overpowered/underpowered abilities fare against enemies other than just plain old Cerberus with their mostly 'straightforward' - guns, snipers, grenades, smoke cover + the phantom.

Stasis doesn't work on Atlas, maybe it won't work on the entire Reaper army either. Maybe engineers will come to dominate against them. Maybe pistols won't be powerful enough to hurt them.

Maybe there will be flying enemies or ones that steal your guns or who knows.

Nobody who is making balance suggestions, especially to nerf classes/powers because right now they are the most obvious ones to use to easily beat Cerberus, knows what will be different in the full game, so their idea of balance on this limited exposure demo may end up making them look like fools later on.

I dont agree with this, if ME2 has taught you anything, the enemy only dictates thier tactics and how you defend yourself but thier defenses decide your offense.

At this moment Stasis goes through barrier and shields. Because it ignores 2/3 defenses im using what i see in game to assume that it works on armored enemies assuming they have health under that armor (the only two enemies that stasis cant affect dont have health).

So what i see is that unless there is an entire race with no health, stasis will forever be game changing.

[Elecbender]

We can't use a DEMO which limits selection to decide weapon/class balance.

That's like saying a character is overpowered in a fighting game demo that only features 3 out of 20 characters.

For all we know the Carnifex is the "icing on the cake".

At this point only glitches/exploits should be looked at.

[Kronner]

- Stasis should not work on protected enemies.
- Phantom/Nemesis should be able to see through cloak.
- Charge/Nova spam should not be so effective.It is supposed to be HIGH risk. Well, it is NOT.
- The option to cancel Nova animation should be removed.
- Pistols need to be toned down a bit.
- Heavyweight weapons should be much better than their lightweight counterparts.
- Krogans should regenerate health, but have less shields.
- Overload should not be chain-lightning.
- Spamming powers should not be encouraged. (i.e. weapon weight system needs to be fixed).

Basically, in a matter of hours/days it became apparent that going light and spamming powers is the most effective approach. Nothing else is close. This should be fixed.

Some classes (Human Vanguard, Asari Adept and Salarian Infiltrator) are much more powerful that others.

And yeah, random unlocks SUCK. I spent 680k credits without getting a single gold card. That is ridiculous.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 février 2012 - 08:28 .

[Evercrow]

Carnifex just needs lesser zoom on scope. Maybe different-looking accuracy upgrade,but that's harder to imagine in ME lore(can't see how reflex sights would fit).

Also,don't forget there will be more weapons in full game,with some new powerful ones in each type.Mattock can perform better then a whole load of other weapons too, but I'm waiting before suggesting any changes to it, because i can find a new favorite later.

As for powers-nah,people. Co-op missions supposed to be class-specific. Just like we hand-picked our team in ME2-based on opposition type. And I can already see, how "underpowered" Asari adept will be in match against Husks, compared to tech classes with incineration blast or flamethrower turret.What will you do then, suggest a buff for Asari or nerf for engineers?

Although i agree with Drell Vanguard suggestion - they are too squishy for a close-quarters type fighter.I would've suggested changing them to Sentinel or Adept as alternative,but vanguard better fits the lore. So i want to see them become viable on Gold

[Endplanets]

"Stasis should have to go through shields/barriers before stunning. Too dominant in gold."
I kinda feel the other way around would be better. Make it so that all biotics can be used against shield/barrier/armor enemies; but less effective. Basically every strong enemy has protection and adepts (without stasis) are defenseless.

[Hoki]

 Your suggestion about stasis would ruin it. That used to be the case in ME2.

Fun fact: CC was useless in ME2 because of exactly that.

[TexasToast712]

darkblade wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

darkblade wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Anyone who suggests a nerf to pistols is clearly a idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

Anyone who thinks a sidearm should be the best weapon is a shooter is clearly an idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

^See anyone can talk stupid, i dont even have a degree in Bulls***, im just improvising.

These are your momma's concealed .22. These are hand cannons. Say it with me, HAND CANNON. M3 predator being the only exception and it is the weakest of them all.

Well you are gone from the thread but i still need to adress this and why its irrelevent.

They are heavy pistols analogus of a the relation ship to a modern day .357 magnum .45 magnum, and .50 (etc) magnum round firing pistols over over the 9mm and other none magnum. Yes the can do more damage withing about 50m (if youre using a D.eagle). where in lies the problem with mass effect 3s pistols mostly the carnifex. 

That singular gun replaces all pistols, all smgs, and the viper sniper rifle. Id have no problem with it if it couldnt have a scope and had a decent damage drop out range.

The other 2 pistols in the demo are fine.

Decided to come back.

The Carnifex is balanced.

- Low ammo
- High recoil
- Very inaccurate without a scope
- Slow RoF
- Hard to use up close when you have a scope.

I just think the problem is scopes for pistols. I always thought putting a scope on a pistol is retarded. Besides, if you think the Carnifex is overpowered then you are in for a rude awakening when people unlock other pistols in the full game. Notably the Paladin which is a Carnifex on steroids.

[Core_Commander]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Decided to come back.

The Carnifex is balanced.

- Low ammo
- High recoil
- Very inaccurate without a scope
- Slow RoF
- Hard to use up close when you have a scope.

I just think the problem is scopes for pistols. I always thought putting a scope on a pistol is retarded. Besides, if you think the Carnifex is overpowered then you are in for a rude awakening when people unlock other pistols in the full game. Notably the Paladin which is a Carnifex on steroids.

Balanced against what?

- Ammo: Irrelevant. Always some ammo box around, or the wave ends before you really run dry unless you just camp in one spot, box-less spot for some reason.

- Recoil/RoF: interestingly enough, its damage more than compensates for RoF, and slow RoF in turn makes recoil irrelevant (since you always have time to readjust your aim before it cools down)

- Inaccurate w/o scope: Indeed. Still, no reason not to equip said scope.

- Hard to use up close w/o scope: Pardon? Why would you zoom in, up close? If the enemy is right up in your grill, just shoot, he's naturally "bigger" on your screen and easier to shoot... if he's further away - use the scope and profit from your lightweight sniper rifle. Besides, scope helps accuracy even without zooming.

It kind of seems like you're grasping at straws here. For a weapon so light, it shouldn't be "a better Viper sniper rifle". It basically has no trade-off for its low weight, as long as you're not dumb enough to shoot all your clips without touching an ammo box (and burning through 2 reloads).

Lastly, Paladin being "Carnifex on steroids" isn't an argument for the Carnifex, it's an argument against the Paladin. It may simply mean that one is *very* overpowered, while the other is *still* overpowered for its weight.

Modifié par Core_Commander, 26 février 2012 - 01:59 .

[ReprovedReaper]

Darkov wrote...

Human Sentinel needs.. something.. to make it a worthy alternative to the Turian Sentinel.

that ability to do the very useful doge roll isin't enough? I hate to play as a Turian becuase I can't doge

[_symphony]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Anyone who suggests a nerf to pistols is clearly a idiot with no credibility whatsoever.

pistols should be nerfed.