Aller au contenu

Photo

Cerberus Enemy Balance


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
13 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Gnarlesee

Gnarlesee
  • Members
  • 178 messages
Hi everyone and Bioware.

I would like to say it is a fantastic game, only held down by its networkning problems, and when they are fixed this game is gonna be even more awesome.

Now i would like to explain why the balance on enemies is good, and not overpowered like some make it out to be.
(allthough i am gonna make a few remarks, English aint my first language, so be gentle)

Assault Trooper:
These are the baseline tier units you will find. They have average damage coupled with medium agressiveness.
They dont have any defensive shields which actually makes them unique for cerberus. That they dont have shields is actually a good balancing points because they can actually burst quite strong unless you play lower difficulties.
They are satisfying to fight and kill especially because you dont have to strip them for something, this also means all classes have a good chance of fighting these.
These can throw grenades to punish positioning/awarenes

Centurion:

Some have argued they are strong, and they are if you let them into shotgun range. They shields allow them to be a bulkier type of the Assault trooper and they make a fine enemy. These enemies will however not give you any troubles if you have any barrier remover, and serve good as a higher tier Assault trooper.
These can throw grenades to punish positioning/awarenes

Guardians:

These enemies are geniously designed to pressure turtlers and in some cases force teamplay. Flanking, good aim, special weapons or stasis bubble is some of the ways to deal with him. They are not really that huge a threat if you have the tools, but they still force more tactical play than the other mentioned soldiers, and have good synergy with Nemesis.

Nemesis:

Love them or hate them, these types will at all times try to avoid close combat and will try fire at max range. These enemies serve as cerberus shieldbreakers & Cover support. They will generally never kill you, but they will try make you much more suspectible to follow up-attacks or forcing you to use more time in cover, and less time fighting back if you get it. This is here the Cerberus army begins to form a synergy. Having regular solders mixed with pressure fighers, covered by long range support.

Combat Engineers:

Ohh yes, combat engineers. They have one of the single most powerfull abilities in ME3. A turret capable of even tearing apart a krogan or sentinel.
These turrets have 1 very special role, and that is area control. They use turrets to force opponents to avoid turrets, thereby  either trapping people or catching them by surprise.
After placing a turret they will either be very agressive and join the pressure, or they will defend their turret with their omni tool.
to make sure they get the job done, they have an incredible strong shield, and they lay down turrets instantly (even though it does not seem so)

Now the cerberus have the following fighting style.

Assault and heavy assault troopers in the front line, who is backed up by Nemesis and combat engineers cover fire/areal deny. Under this support the Guardians will try to root out the pinned down enemies and force them down/out of their hiding.
Quite a style. But they have a weakness. Their long ranges are suspectible to barrier strip and burst, and guardians can easily be killed, thereby making it frail.

To make up for that they have:

Phantoms:

We all know and love them. The Biotic super warriors, the N7 of Cerberus if you will. These highly trained super soldiers will do what all the other troops lack. They have enough health and barrier to survive normal fire, Equipped with built-in guns in their hands capable of killing you in 3-4 very fast and well timed shots while running. When they reach melee they will either stunlock you or outright kill you, making you dead for the round, with no way of coming back that round.
Besides their barrier they have resistance to CC chains (about 4 times i think is maximum number i think) and they can activate a deflecting barrier making them invincible for a short time.
They can even attain a strong infiltrator cloak, making them even more deadly.
Sounds OP right? Well here is why are not.

They are made to kill players on higher difficulties, trying to close the distance with cloak/heavy gunfire. Then trying to stun/kill players in melee range. It is their job, and if they were not there, the game would be severely trivialized.
They are in a few words: Noob killers.   They rely on players not paying attention to their surroundings, and the pressure the rest of the cerberus troops provide them. They also take advantage of wrong squad setups.

To deal with them effectively you will need stasis, barrier removals, or heavy gunfire(prefferably snipers)
A common scenario is killing the first phantoms with stasis snipe, and overloading barriers and following up with concentrated fire/warp/inceneration
This way you can kill alot of phantoms very easily. But if you let them sneak up onto you, and your team members does not have interupts (shockwave, stasis and similar) they will try go for a 1 shot of the player.

They are well balanced in damage and health, a strong tier unit that takes awareness and teamwork to kill effectively, and deadly if handled wrong. Just as a high tier unit should be. They provide the strong ranged/moving forward slowly style that cerberus rely on. Pinning opponents down, and taking them out.

Atlas: 

Ohh good ol Atlas. These are first and foremost the tanks of the Cerberus army. They are here to take time to kill and not letting you run around freely. While they are slow, when pinned down by the cerberus army, they will have all the time they need to slowly pressure you like a guardian and firing while moving. They are the super version of guardian. Slowly and tanky pressuring pinned down opponents.
They make sure to provide the cover and pressure needed to distract players from noticing flanking phantoms.
They can be taken down effectively by using Cobras at the right time, overload/drain spam follow up by snipers or just concentrated gunfire.They can also be distracted by a drone to buy time.

Summary of the Cerberus army:

The Cerberus Army synergizes well in the way they fight. They will first hunt you, then pin you down, followed up by securing the area/area denial. When that is done, they will try finish you off/root you out with grenades and melee/ranged type enemies.
I find this a very cool art of war, and while not unique in thought, it is uniquely put out into a game so well.

None of the enemies are overpowered, they are tiered, and difficulty suggests how much HP/damage and how many "tier" points are allowed to be spend in a wave (i pressume).
They are satisfying to fight against, and give a fine challenge on gold. DIfficulties are nicely put out in the way they rely on your squad setups. Fx:

Bronze: You can set up any squad and you will do fine with an average play.

Silver: Low/medium required squad setup. You can be punished for lack of awareness and removals by a decent amount. With average/fine positioning this mode should not prove too difficult a task (assuming your team are not lvl 1 vanguards charging randomly into turrets)

Gold: You are expected to have removals and control. You are also expected to have a fair amount of damage to deal with Atlas/Phantom health pools.
This mode is the first mode i would personally say that using equipment is surely a good advice. It is not a must have, but some upgrades can prove to be the thing that makes or breaks. (fx armor piercing vs guardians and atlas) You are also in this mode punished severely for bad position and lack of awareness. If you dont pay attention to phantom/turret trapping enemies, then you will probably fail the mission.

Conclusion:

The Cerberus army is a versatile and satisfying opponent to face. Good players will find themselves rewarded for their decisions, and good leadership can lead your team to victory. Just like a real squad.
Poor decisions, bad positioning and awareness will not allow you to complete hard difficulties, and that is how it should be. No enemies are unbalanced if you play as you are supposed to. It does not mean you cant be flexible, but you have to make the right choices.

And making right choices is what Mass Effect is all about.

Thank you for reading this long post. Looking forward to the Reapers next!

Modifié par Gnarlesee, 22 février 2012 - 12:08 .


#2
UK Wildcat

UK Wildcat
  • Members
  • 723 messages
Demo is balanced mostly. No idea how the real game will be balanced for the complete multiplayer experience. No way of determining if Cerberus will be balanced against the full range of classes and abilities.

#3
frozngecko

frozngecko
  • Members
  • 594 messages
nice guide! The title is a little misleading, but I agree wholeheartedly. The balance is great, and the enemies are extremely fierce and tactical...like they think they can survive after meeting me and a good squad. Poor sods...

#4
Gnarlesee

Gnarlesee
  • Members
  • 178 messages

UK Wildcat wrote...

Demo is balanced mostly. No idea how the real game will be balanced for the complete multiplayer experience. No way of determining if Cerberus will be balanced against the full range of classes and abilities.


Very true. Right now Asari bubble stasis and widow damage on Atlas is a good example of an overtuned abilities, but compared to what most games in their demo phase look like, i would say it is a great succes.

While you are true in the fact we have not seen all classes, we still have a preview of their abilities though.

The only thing there is no other than bioware who knows, is how all the different weapons will play out in when maxed to lvl 10. But that is stuff for the future. Im excited :)

#5
sirjimmus86

sirjimmus86
  • Members
  • 585 messages
Atlas is a great enemy to have slowly plodding towards you. The other troops tend to cluster around it, ideal for spamming it with warp/throw to create biotic explosions. I feel sad now when someone decides to blow it up with cobras, especially when its on the other side of the map and its the last enemy.

Just thinking, as a team we should have 8 missile launchers, which is easily enough for bronze, and maybe silver, but definitely can't rely on them for taking out the Atlas spam in gold

#6
Chaoswind

Chaoswind
  • Members
  • 2 228 messages
Quarian engineer seems useless, but let's be honest they are probably going to be tier 1 pick when facing Geths.

#7
Gnarlesee

Gnarlesee
  • Members
  • 178 messages

Chaoswind wrote...

Quarian engineer seems useless, but let's be honest they are probably going to be tier 1 pick when facing Geths.


I just finished gold with one. They are definetely not high tier, but useless is a hard term. Their damage on armor is fine, and their turret is a fine distraction. A human engineer does the job better vs Cerberus though.

Quarian engineer is more a reaper fighter i guess. So tiers are based on a specifick enemy right now (cerberus) but there are at least 2 enemies, keep that in mind.
(i wont disagree she looks like the worst engineer on the table though, unless cryo freeze proves very effective vs other enemies we have not seen yet)

Modifié par Gnarlesee, 22 février 2012 - 12:32 .


#8
Tangster

Tangster
  • Members
  • 3 303 messages

sirjimmus86 wrote...

Atlas is a great enemy to have slowly plodding towards you. The other troops tend to cluster around it, ideal for spamming it with warp/throw to create biotic explosions. I feel sad now when someone decides to blow it up with cobras, especially when its on the other side of the map and its the last enemy.

Just thinking, as a team we should have 8 missile launchers, which is easily enough for bronze, and maybe silver, but definitely can't rely on them for taking out the Atlas spam in gold


8 cobra's aren't enough for silver if that's all you use. You'll be dry by extraction, save them for wave 10 and 11.

Gnarlesee wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

Quarian engineer seems useless, but let's be honest they are probably going to be tier 1 pick when facing Geths.


I just finished gold with one. They are definetely not high tier, but useless is a hard term. Their damage on armor is fine, and their turret is a fine distraction. A human engineer does the job better vs Cerberus though.

Quarian engineer is more a reaper fighter i guess. So tiers are based on a specifick enemy right now (cerberus) but there are at least 2 enemies, keep that in mind.

 

Equally capable against Cerberus. Solo'ed silver with mine.

Modifié par Tangster, 22 février 2012 - 12:32 .


#9
Gnarlesee

Gnarlesee
  • Members
  • 178 messages

Tangster wrote...

sirjimmus86 wrote...

Atlas is a great enemy to have slowly plodding towards you. The other troops tend to cluster around it, ideal for spamming it with warp/throw to create biotic explosions. I feel sad now when someone decides to blow it up with cobras, especially when its on the other side of the map and its the last enemy.

Just thinking, as a team we should have 8 missile launchers, which is easily enough for bronze, and maybe silver, but definitely can't rely on them for taking out the Atlas spam in gold


8 cobra's aren't enough for silver if that's all you use. You'll be dry by extraction, save them for wave 10 and 11.


Depends on the luck i think. Sometimes they are only few, while some (fx assasination missions) you could get unlucky and get alot.

You are expected to kill a few normally though. And with proper setups they can be killed in medium range within 15 seconds.

#10
Raxxman

Raxxman
  • Members
  • 759 messages
the only thing with Phantoms is I don't really understand why they seem to be immune to half the classes CC yet totally destroyed by others.

Per example, the soliders concussive shot seems to do nothing to them unless they've lost their barriers. cryo blast/incinerate don't slow them down, shockwave even with the knockup evolution seems to be ineffective while the barrier is up, as is singularity. Yet falcon punch works unless they (very rarely) stop you with a one shot melee, and stasis turns them from feared enemy to 'free kill here'.

#11
Gnarlesee

Gnarlesee
  • Members
  • 178 messages

Tangster wrote...


 

Equally capable against Cerberus. Solo'ed silver with mine.


The word equally is actually what i disagree with.
Cerberus relies first and foremost on shields and barriers. Overload is a good way to deal with that.
And the drone is much more flexible than quarian turret. The freeze sucks points from better talents for now in my opinion.

Im not saying it is a rubbish class. But humans are better vs cerberus based on their removal and distraction abilities.

Just like you can do alot of stuff with a drell vanguard, or a human solder. But they dont really bring something better than asari adepts, salarian infiltrators, human vanguards etc.

Modifié par Gnarlesee, 22 février 2012 - 12:39 .


#12
Gnarlesee

Gnarlesee
  • Members
  • 178 messages

Raxxman wrote...

the only thing with Phantoms is I don't really understand why they seem to be immune to half the classes CC yet totally destroyed by others.

Per example, the soliders concussive shot seems to do nothing to them unless they've lost their barriers. cryo blast/incinerate don't slow them down, shockwave even with the knockup evolution seems to be ineffective while the barrier is up, as is singularity. Yet falcon punch works unless they (very rarely) stop you with a one shot melee, and stasis turns them from feared enemy to 'free kill here'.


Stasis working on barriers is indeed strong. It got a tremendous buff from ME2, and it will probably be tuned down abit.

After 4 CC´s (around that) that phantom gets immune to others. And they can deflect any ability if they raise their hand and make a barrier summoning animation from it, even stasis.

#13
Tangster

Tangster
  • Members
  • 3 303 messages

Gnarlesee wrote...
Stasis working on barriers is indeed strong. It got a tremendous buff from ME2, and it will probably be tuned down abit.

After 4 CC´s (around that) that phantom gets immune to others. And they can deflect any ability if they raise their hand and make a barrier summoning animation from it, even stasis.


Seriously annoying that. Blocks all biotic and tech powers and a widow to the face only drops it's barriers on gold.

#14
Gnarlesee

Gnarlesee
  • Members
  • 178 messages
bamp