404 réponses à ce sujet

[Arppis]

ElementL09 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

And that fact in absolutely, positively, irrefutably NO WAY justifies what has happened to her.

I don't care if she bluntly called all gamers fat, useless, pathetic basement dwellers living with their parents. No one deserves this treatment. Period.

Deserves? No, they certainly don't deserve the treatment, but neither do they automatically deserve sympathy. She's getting harassed by a bunch of trolls on the internet. She hasn't been assaulted, she hasn't had her life ruined. I bet there's a least five guys on the staff who's gotten this crap worse than her over a period of years, but nobody gives a **** about them.

A girl committed suicide because of comments on the internet. Don't underestimate the power of a comment on the internet. You may feel like it's just an empty comment but they actually do do measurable damage to human beings.

If she had someone to talk to who would have supported her and told her to ignore what others say (parents? friends?) then I strongly believe she wouldn't commit suicide over comments over the internet. 

People need to just toughen up in general.  Comments over the internet are just comments, what people say to you over the internet isn't what they actually mean or say they can do in real life.

Seriously:  Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.  <--- if that can apply in real life, then why not over the internet.

It is easy to say that.

You propably had your family's support. I doubt this girl had many friends and she propably had tough time at home. Nobody with good social-net and good "mental defences" isn't going to do suicide. People are different and they should treated diffrerently. We don't all have the same background.

You need to realize that before saying that.

[Eain]

A sense of entitlement? Not at all. A sense of regret? Yes. I don't feel like Bioware owes me anything, so I just stay the hell away from anything with Heplers name on it and consider it a shame that a company reknowned for its storytelling is relying on people like her to do it. If you want truly amazing storytellers there's far better picks out there than this yaoi-obsessed hack.

Modifié par Eain, 22 février 2012 - 09:11 .

[Mister Mida]

Rockworm503 wrote...

You know what the real disgusting part about all of it is this is nothing new.
People think because they don't have to use their real names that they can say or do anything.
The mentality is that we're going to complain about every aspect of your game (that silly video on the first page is perfect proof of this) Then we're going make a big deal like our money is the reason their companies still around and then its like half the people were going to pirate it anyway but hey that gives us the entitlement to treat the people who made the game like scum.

Makes you wonder why anyone even bothers making games with that attitude. Must be an industry full of masochists.

Because not everyone in the game industry is an oversensitive wooze who cares what some faceless douche on the internet says in its troll rage.

Now I don't approve of this behaviour, but seriously: once you make a public statement, be ready to get a response on it and called out for making that statement. And on the net everything is possible.

Now I don't know why Hepler doesn't play games, but if she just doesn't like them, then I seriously have to wonder what the hell she is doing in this line of business. Is the best thing she could get, she wasn't good enough for writing a tv series or film? If she wants to create interactive films she should've gone to Quantic Dream or something. I don't know and frankly I don't care. I judge work based on quality, not on motivation of the creator.

And acting like this happens only on the game industry is idiotic. It happens with all media. Last year when Black Sabbath announced their reunion, making a new album and doing a tour, a lot of folks were pretty much nagging about how they'd only ruin the band's legacy with it. And I'm not even gonna mention the Lucas bashers all over the place.

[Rockworm503]

BobSmith101 wrote...


Bioware made it who else would you blame? 

Try parodying this in the same way.

Now it all makes sense.
I don't have to parody Final Fantasy because they pretty much do that for me.  What a joke of a series how can anyone take that crap seriously?

What your doing is comparing gameplay footage to a cutscene.
not only is that unfair but its dishonest.  And parts of your ME3 video had the guy doing things on purpose to make it look bad.  I'm sorry but if you want to cricize the game but be honest don't latch onto the first youtube vidoe you see and think its working.

[ElementL09]

Arppis wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

And that fact in absolutely, positively, irrefutably NO WAY justifies what has happened to her.

I don't care if she bluntly called all gamers fat, useless, pathetic basement dwellers living with their parents. No one deserves this treatment. Period.

Deserves? No, they certainly don't deserve the treatment, but neither do they automatically deserve sympathy. She's getting harassed by a bunch of trolls on the internet. She hasn't been assaulted, she hasn't had her life ruined. I bet there's a least five guys on the staff who's gotten this crap worse than her over a period of years, but nobody gives a **** about them.

A girl committed suicide because of comments on the internet. Don't underestimate the power of a comment on the internet. You may feel like it's just an empty comment but they actually do do measurable damage to human beings.

If she had someone to talk to who would have supported her and told her to ignore what others say (parents? friends?) then I strongly believe she wouldn't commit suicide over comments over the internet. 

People need to just toughen up in general.  Comments over the internet are just comments, what people say to you over the internet isn't what they actually mean or say they can do in real life.

Seriously:  Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.  <--- if that can apply in real life, then why not over the internet.

It is easy to say that.

You propably had your family's support. I doubt this girl had many friends and she propably had tough time at home. Nobody with good social-net and good "mental defences" isn't going to do suicide. People are different and they should treated diffrerently. We don't all have the same background.

You need to realize that before saying that.

I can understand why you say that, but the fact of the matter is that I don't know these people (unless there close friends) who I'm chatting with or commenting over the internet.  I don't know there backgrounds, I don't know how they really feel, I don't know who they are at all.

I know that everyone is different and has a different background, but we don't really know who were talking to over the internet and most likely they don't know either.  Because of this "unknown" people act like jerks for no apparent reason other then to tick people off.  It sucks, but theres a way around the ignorance of others, and thats to just ignore them or even just laugh at them

I know its easier said then done, but people have to realize this.  Is what one person say online really going to effect me in real life?  Is it going to effect how I work or how interact with others?  I say no.  I'm not gonna let some random person annoy me.  I'm going to ignore them.  People shouldn't be worried about comments from what other people say, especially comments from a person you don't know.

Again its sounds easier said then done, but I can't account for every single person on the internet, all I can say is that people online these days need to toughen up a bit and just ignore ridiculous comments.

[Rockworm503]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Has there been one single post in this thread that has ANY relevance to Mass Effect 3...it is an interesting topic but when threads that actually pertain to ME3 get closed it makes you wonder what "end of line, not ME3 related" actually means?

I'm sorry would it be better if there was ANOTHER thread complaing about the demo?

[Arppis]

ElementL09 wrote...

I can understand why you say that, but the fact of the matter is that I don't know these people (unless there close friends) who I'm chatting with or commenting over the internet.  I don't know there backgrounds, I don't know how they really feel, I don't know who they are at all.

I know that everyone is different and has a different background, but we don't really know who were talking to over the internet and most likely they don't know either.  Because of this "unknown" people act like jerks for no apparent reason other then to tick people off.  It sucks, but theres a way around the ignorance of others, and thats to just ignore them or even just laugh at them

I know its easier said then done, but people have to realize this.  Is what one person say online really going to effect me in real life?  Is it going to effect how I work or how interact with others?  I say no.  I'm not gonna let some random person annoy me.  I'm going to ignore them.  People shouldn't be worried about comments from what other people say, especially comments from a person you don't know.

Again its sounds easier said then done, but I can't account for every single person on the internet, all I can say is that people online these days need to toughen up a bit and just ignore ridiculous comments.

As I said, you propably have good mental defenses for this stuff. Be happy to have bit stability in your life.

This person might not have those defenses fully developed. It's not far to have mental breakdown. Suicide attempts are nearly always cry for help, most people who die because of them are elderly folks who are more "determed" to kill themselves, because they basicaly got nothing to look forward to.

But anyhows, I don't think this girl had everything alright in her home. For people who don't get acceptance in real life, they might want to go to internet to seek that. There are a lot of people playing WoW for example, who has that as their last "social safety net". So for some people, internet means a lot.

I know I shouldn't have sounded like I am accusing you of something. I just wanted to give you something to consider and it is not your fault at all if people are acting like douches. What you said is true, because people can't see the person's reactions, they can be more cruel at them.

[AshenSugar]

Uugh. Read the Gamespot pieces and it left a very nasty taste in my mouth. People on the internet can be absolutely despicable.

And what's with that GreaterGreyWolf guy in the comments section? Is he on crack or something?

For what it's worth, I agree with her original statement about skippable combat. I'd never use it myself, but having different gameplay choices within any game can only be a good thing, which is why I also believe that Mass Effect 3's Combat/RP/Story options is a great idea.. even if I'd never use anything but the RP option myself.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 22 février 2012 - 09:56 .

[crazyrabbits]

Personally, I think it's just the era we live in. Where I live (Ontario, Canada), our political theatre often descends into "us vs. you" situations where people crawl out of the woodwork only to insult candidates and people not aligned with their views before crawling back into their hole.

That said, this doesn't entirely surprise me. I've gotten a lot of flack from many people over the years just for expressing an opinion, let alone one (even if it's backed up by logic and facts) that someone doesn't agree with.

As far as this forum goes, I've seen some pretty dire conversations devolve into veiled threats and mudslinging. At the end of the day, Bioware gave their fans massive leeway in expressing their opinions and thoughts, with little restraint. Yet, the way some users carry on around here, you'd think that the moderators are absolute scum who killed their pets. I may disagree with a decision the company takes, but I certainly wouldn't take it to the level others have already done. In the end, they're making games for the fans and for their livelihood. I'm willing to accept compromises if it means the final product is still good.

What happened to Hepler is just unneeded and wrong.

[Arppis]

crazyrabbits wrote...

Personally, I think it's just the era we live in. Where I live (Ontario, Canada), our political theatre often descends into "us vs. you" situations where people crawl out of the woodwork only to insult candidates and people not aligned with their views before crawling back into their hole.

That said, this doesn't entirely surprise me. I've gotten a lot of flack from many people over the years just for expressing an opinion, let alone one (even if it's backed up by logic and facts) that someone doesn't agree with.

As far as this forum goes, I've seen some pretty dire conversations devolve into veiled threats and mudslinging. At the end of the day, Bioware gave their fans massive leeway in expressing their opinions and thoughts, with little restraint. Yet, the way some users carry on around here, you'd think that the moderators are absolute scum who killed their pets. I may disagree with a decision the company takes, but I certainly wouldn't take it to the level others have already done. In the end, they're making games for the fans and for their livelihood. I'm willing to accept compromises if it means the final product is still good.

What happened to Hepler is just unneeded and wrong.

Keep strong man.

[Elios]

thats pretty bs i think there is MASSIVE lack of good dialog in games any more its all combat
hell look at ME2 and 3 compared to ME1 >.> *ducks*
other then the few small things i still like ME1 is best game of the 3

[Lakan Suko]

While I am completely 100% against Jennifer Hepler's idea, why would I all of a sudden, turn my arguement into complete trash by saying these things against her??...

Seriously... You can still go about this in a more intellectual way, and still be very outspoken... While I am also against the article in it completely failing to understand the value us consumers are(I'm not going to lie, the article did pretty much gave that vibe and perhaps pretty much said be happy and subservient with what you get, even if you're spending money on it, which is also very unethical... If its free, the author would be correct, however, we are paying money, its still a 2 way thing, not 1 way), the article is right by pointing out just how bad the fanbase is turning...

What happened, was very unnecessary, and I'll add, very counterproductive to the ones opposing her idea, hurts their side more than hers... But either way, I hope Jennifer Hepler is not too hurt about it... Not everyone is a self-centered, counter productive moron like those who attacked her. Many people these days should really understand the "this is my opinion, and that's your opinion, let's agree to disagree" thing...

Modifié par Lakan Suko, 22 février 2012 - 09:55 .

[Rockworm503]

Mister Mida wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

You know what the real disgusting part about all of it is this is nothing new.
People think because they don't have to use their real names that they can say or do anything.
The mentality is that we're going to complain about every aspect of your game (that silly video on the first page is perfect proof of this) Then we're going make a big deal like our money is the reason their companies still around and then its like half the people were going to pirate it anyway but hey that gives us the entitlement to treat the people who made the game like scum.

Makes you wonder why anyone even bothers making games with that attitude. Must be an industry full of masochists.

Because not everyone in the game industry is an oversensitive wooze who cares what some faceless douche on the internet says in its troll rage.

Now I don't approve of this behaviour, but seriously: once you make a public statement, be ready to get a response on it and called out for making that statement. And on the net everything is possible.

Now I don't know why Hepler doesn't play games, but if she just doesn't like them, then I seriously have to wonder what the hell she is doing in this line of business. Is the best thing she could get, she wasn't good enough for writing a tv series or film? If she wants to create interactive films she should've gone to Quantic Dream or something. I don't know and frankly I don't care. I judge work based on quality, not on motivation of the creator.

And acting like this happens only on the game industry is idiotic. It happens with all media. Last year when Black Sabbath announced their reunion, making a new album and doing a tour, a lot of folks were pretty much nagging about how they'd only ruin the band's legacy with it. And I'm not even gonna mention the Lucas bashers all over the place.

Your missing the point entirely.
She simply said something should be an option.  I though options were good.
And hating games means nothing Hideo Kojima has said numerous times he wishes he was doing movies but his games are loved by many.

[AshenSugar]

I know its easier said then done, but people have to realize this. Is what one person say online really going to effect me in real life? Is it going to effect how I work or how interact with others? I say no. I'm not gonna let some random person annoy me. I'm going to ignore them. People shouldn't be worried about comments from what other people say, especially comments from a person you don't know.

That's not always as easy as it sounds. Siometimes, however strong-willed you might consider yourself to be, and however logical your thought processes occasionally someone will say something that gets through your barriers and genuinelly hurts you.

As a case to point, as an ex-WoW player, I was once fairly active on the World of Warcraft forums (mostly the roleplaying section). I once replied to a post about people who deliberately disrupt RP, stating that I had recently reported someone for in-game griefing. (it was a guiy who stood in the middle of one of my RP sessions, screaming homophobic abuse in ALLCAPS, and so, to my mind deserved to be reported.)

I was then treated to a torrent of pure bile by around six or seven other posters, all of who started out with comments about how I was a 'traitor to my fellow gamers', but soon deteriorated into personal insults.

The usual "u fail at life" "plzz just go kill uself" "everyone hates u" "OMG u pathetic basement nerd" type stuff is easy enough to simply shrug off.. but this one particular guy made some remarks about my father. I can't remember the exact wording (it was around four years agfo after all), but it was something along the lines of "did your daddy not love you enough, or did he love you a bit too much?".

Now, at the time my father (may he RIP) was going through a major health scare. I'd always been very close to him, and so my emotional state, and nerves were pretty shot to hell anyhow. For some reason, this guy's words just totally blasted away my shields, and ripped me apart. It's impossible to explain how or why... it just happened.

Unfortunately I retaliated, and refered to the person as a 'complete bastard'. This earned me a 30-day ban from the forums. As far as I'm aware, no action was taken against the guy making comments about my father, or any of the other people, who were asking me to 'kill myself' etc.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 22 février 2012 - 09:58 .

[CerberusSoldier]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Where are the Moderators when an off topic thread critical of fans (rightly so by the way) is created in the ME3 general discussion thread yet any other off topic thread get the "end of line" not ME3 related - the moderators performance is laughable

   


really you want this closed on what grounds . Oh thats right when Video games's dark and hidden issues come out like this one . many want it shoved back in it s dark hole . This issue needs to be discussed and talked about . its clear the games media is not doing its job big props go to gamespot for doing it .

[CerberusSoldier]

100k wrote...

Didn't Gamespot fire some guy named Jeff for saying that Kane and Lynch was a terrible game?

LOL!

  

That was before Viacom bought them

[Rockworm503]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Where are the Moderators when an off topic thread critical of fans (rightly so by the way) is created in the ME3 general discussion thread yet any other off topic thread get the "end of line" not ME3 related - the moderators performance is laughable

   


really you want this closed on what grounds . Oh thats right when Video games's dark and hidden issues come out like this one . many want it shoved back in it s dark hole . This issue needs to be discussed and talked about . its clear the games media is not doing its job big props go to gamespot for doing it .

Ironic when many people will just dismiss it cause its from gamespot.

Modifié par Rockworm503, 22 février 2012 - 10:15 .

[Kwest253]

anyone who would say these kinds of things about someone for giving players more options is clearly an ****. This is part of what makes me hate the internet. People can say anything they want to to anyone they want to and there are no repercussions for it. I think that is bogus. I am sorry she had to go through that

[Lakan Suko]

AshenSugar wrote...

I know its easier said then done, but people have to realize this. Is what one person say online really going to effect me in real life? Is it going to effect how I work or how interact with others? I say no. I'm not gonna let some random person annoy me. I'm going to ignore them. People shouldn't be worried about comments from what other people say, especially comments from a person you don't know.

That's not always as easy as it sounds. Siometimes, however strong-willed you might consider yourself to be, and however logical your thought processes occasionally someone will say something that gets through your barriers and genuinelly hurts you.

As a case to point, as an ex-WoW player, I was once fairly active on the World of Warcraft forums (mostly the roleplaying section). I once replied to a post about people who deliberately disrupt RP, stating that I had recently reported someone for in-game griefing. (it was a guiy who stood in the middle of one of my RP sessions, screaming homophobic abuse in ALLCAPS, and so, to my mind deserved to be reported.)

I was then treated to a torrent of pure bile by around six or seven other posters, all of who started out with comments about how I was a 'traitor to my fellow gamers', but soon deteriorated into personal insults.

The usual "u fail at life" "plzz just go kill uself" "everyone hates u" "OMG u pathetic basement nerd" type stuff is easy enough to simply shrug off.. but this one particular guy made some remarks about my father. I can't remember the exact wording (it was around four years agfo after all), but it was something along the lines of "did your daddy not love you enough, or did he love you a bit too much?".

Now, at the time my father (may he RIP) was going through a major health scare. I'd always been very close to him, and so my emotional state, and nerves were pretty shot to hell anyhow. For some reason, this guy's words just totally blasted away my shields, and ripped me apart. It's impossible to explain how or why... it just happened.

Unfortunately I retaliated, and refered to the person as a 'complete bastard'. This earned me a 30-day ban from the forums. As far as I'm aware, no action was taken against the guy making comments about my father, or any of the other people, who were asking me to 'kill myself' etc.

Wait, in the official wow forums? No action was taken against the original attackers?... Seriously, did they have some **** moderators?? As a moderator myself on another forum, you know how much it pains me to hear something like that?? I just simply don't understand that, im quite baffled, what should've happened, rather, is they recieve their ban, and at most you would have been told not to take matters in your own hands, but regardless the mods should've understood the current situation... I really hope something was done to those accurately named "bastards"...

[AlexXIV]

AshenSugar wrote...

As a case to point, as an ex-WoW player, I was once fairly active on the World of Warcraft forums (mostly the roleplaying section). I once replied to a post about people who deliberately disrupt RP, stating that I had recently reported someone for in-game griefing. (it was a guiy who stood in the middle of one of my RP sessions, screaming homophobic abuse in ALLCAPS, and so, to my mind deserved to be reported.)

I was then treated to a torrent of pure bile by around six or seven other posters, all of who started out with comments about how I was a 'traitor to my fellow gamers', but soon deteriorated into personal insults.

I never played Wow, but this sounds like the board mods didn't do their job. I'd hand out bans in the dozens. The kind which not only keeps you from posting on the board but also locks you out of the game for two weeks or a month. The problem is that if you let people act like that they they think it is ok. There are people who should take care of this kind behavior in any kind of MMO game or message board. If they don't do it, then people consider it as sort of license to be an ass. One reason why I think the moderation could be harsher even on the BSN. Yes, many people would rage and call the mods and the BSN all kinds of names, but in effect it would get alot more peaceful around here.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 22 février 2012 - 10:13 .

[Crimson_D-bag]

lol, skip the combat??? she deserves a lite ribbing for this. I mean come on we all know women are emotional rocks, i'm sure she took it like a champ.(and by the way there is a game like that, its called go have coffee with your girlfriends!)

[CerberusSoldier]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

android654 wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...
Hepler showed her throat to gain some sympathy and this is what happens. The people attacking her may be douchebags, but she's handled it poorly.

And you're a douche for suggesting that someone is deliberatly being advantageous about being mistreated

Shows what your opinion is worth if all you've got to throw around are insults. She poked the hornets' nest with that snarky little comment of hers by basically calling her attackers a bunch of nerds, that helped nothing.

  


That is even more insulting than what the attackers did are you implying she asked for this . you and your pathetic kind are why the gaming communitiy is full of scum and garbage . No One deserves what she and Jade Raymond went through . and for game media sites to not cover it is even more disgusting . we are all fans of games but lets get one thing clear we do not own or rule the games industry .

[Nathan Redgrave]

TullyMcNasty wrote...

Bioware has the worst fans. Easily.

OH, no. That honor still belongs to Sonic the Hedgehog, by quite a wide margin. Be glad we haven't reached that level of insanity just yet.

[Robhuzz]

While I find it ridiculous people would launch personal attacks on someone for a 6 year old statement (never mind this kind personal attacks) I feel BioWare is definitely also to blame when it comes to the entitlement talked about in the article.

BioWare listens to the fans a whole lot but I feel they went overboard in this and thus it makes 'fans' think they can just spam BioWare with pointless whining in order to get their 'great idea' added to the game. Companies like CDProjekt hardly have this. They listen to fan feedback and take it very seriously but at the end of they day it's them that design the game, not the fans.

BioWare should also learn from this: Listen to constructive feedback and use that, don't pay attention to whiners and such because I feel they're looking into that last group way too much at this moment.

Also I hope those people launching personal attacks on Hepler at least get punished for this. Such behavior cannot and should not be tolerated and it really makes the whole fanbase look bad...

Modifié par Robhuzz, 22 février 2012 - 10:23 .

[Eire Icon]

Good article, disgraceful behaviour