404 réponses à ce sujet

[MakeMineMako]

Pathetic. I guess employees of a game developer can't have opinions, nowadays? And that twelve year old basement dwellers and entitlement infested punks, because she violated some holy f**king dogma amongst some gamers, thinks they have free reign to heap childish insults? Jesus H. Christ, some a*sshats need to get a friggin' life. Goddamnit, they are just GAMES.

While her comeback, and that of Aaryn Flynn, simply added fuel to an already raging inferno of stupidity, I can fully understand and sympathize with them snapping off at the idiots. But sometimes the best way to deal with trolls and Internet Tough Guys, is not to feed them.

[sarcasm]The internet is serious business, durrrrr.....[sarcasm]

Modifié par MakeMineMako, 22 février 2012 - 10:32 .

[CerberusSoldier]

Robhuzz wrote...

While I find it ridiculous people would launch personal attacks on someone for a 6 year old statement (never mind this kind personal attacks) I feel BioWare is definitely also to blame when it comes to the entitlement talked about in the article.

BioWare listens to the fans a whole lot but I feel they went overboard in this and thus it makes 'fans' think they can just spam BioWare with pointless whining in order to get their 'great idea' added to the game. Companies like CDProjekt hardly have this. They listen to fan feedback and take it very seriously but at the end of they day it's them that design the game, not the fans.

BioWare should also learn from this: Listen to constructive feedback and use that, don't pay attention to whiners and such because I feel they're looking into that last group way too much at this moment.

Also I hope those people launching personal attacks on Hepler at least get punished for this. Such behavior cannot and should not be tolerated and it really makes the whole fanbase look bad...

   



Bioware should make the games they want to make and let the marketplace decide what sells or not like any real business who makes products would do . but no they make games based on fan feedback in hopes it sales which is not how businesses should be ran

[Mister Mida]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Your missing the point entirely.
She simply said something should be an option.  I though options were good.
And hating games means nothing Hideo Kojima has said numerous times he wishes he was doing movies but his games are loved by many.

How am I missing the point? I was agreeing that the behaviour against her was retarted. However, I also said she and others in similar situations should get over the fact that faceless morons who probably wouldn't cough up the balls when face to face say nasty things about her.

And Hideo Kojima? The MGS guy? You've played MGS4? It's pretty much a film already. And if he's still in the games biz because lots of peeps 'love' his games, then I'd guess he doesn't want to make films that badly.

[lumen11]

This fan entitlement issue is an interesting one.

I've always thought that developers should basically just ignore us and simply make what they feel is a good game. It's the difference between looking at a game like a work of art or a consumer product. This may sound high minded, and works of art are not always easily digestible, but ultimately they are always better (in my experience).

Design choices like DA2's framed narrative and ME2's focus on the squad mates where made according to a particular design vision (in this case quite specifically referencing other forms of art like literature and films) and not because the fans requested them. I really appreciate those kinds of choices, mostly because they take me a little bit by surprise, but I see what the designers are trying to do, even when the execution is imperfect.

[Gabey5]

Mister Mida wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Your missing the point entirely.
She simply said something should be an option.  I though options were good.
And hating games means nothing Hideo Kojima has said numerous times he wishes he was doing movies but his games are loved by many.

How am I missing the point? I was agreeing that the behaviour against her was retarted. However, I also said she and others in similar situations should get over the fact that faceless morons who probably wouldn't cough up the balls when face to face say nasty things about her.

And Hideo Kojima? The MGS guy? You've played MGS4? It's pretty much a film already. And if he's still in the games biz because lots of peeps 'love' his games, then I'd guess he doesn't want to make films that badly.

yeah they are unplayable, pure cutscenes. Also heavy rain is just a straight up unapologetic movie with quick time events.

[AshenSugar]

Wait, in the official wow forums? No action was taken against the original attackers?... Seriously, did they have some **** moderators?? As a moderator myself on another forum, you know how much it pains me to hear something like that?? I just simply don't understand that, im quite baffled, what should've happened, rather, is they recieve their ban, and at most you would have been told not to take matters in your own hands, but regardless the mods should've understood the current situation... I really hope something was done to those accurately named "bastards"...

Aye, well... as far as I know, no action was taken, because I saw the same guy continuing to post during the period of my own ban. I guess it's possible he was being investigated, and some kind of punitive action was taken at a latter date, I really couldn't say.

On the plus side, the guy who made the remarks about my father also happened to be on the same realm as myself, on the opposite faction; and fairly low level when compared to my character (why he also played on an RP/PvP realm I have no idea as he clearly hated role-players).... and so after spotting his character in-game, I proceeded to stalk and corpse camp the living crap out of him, killing him again and again and again and again at every possible opportunity.

I had some friends make characters in other faction, who would alert me on Ventrillo or XFire every time this guy logged in, telling me his location... and off I'd go on my level 70 Shadow Priest ready to make his life an utter misery! He didn't even have a chance.

Very childish I know.. but it felt good at the time.

[Mister Mida]

AshenSugar wrote...

On the plus side, the guy who made the remarks about my father also happened to be on the same realm as myself, on the opposite faction; and fairly low level when compared to my character (why he also played on an RP/PvP realm I have no idea as he clearly hated role-players).... and so after spotting his character in-game, I proceeded to stalk and corpse camp the living crap out of him, killing him again and again and again and again at every possible opportunity.

I had some friends make characters in other faction, who would alert me on Ventrillo or XFire every time this guy logged in, telling me his location... and off I'd go on my level 70 Shadow Priest ready to make his life an utter misery! He didn't even have a chance.

Very childish I know.. but it felt good at the time.

Yes... but somehow, I can approve.

[Beefcake9000]

Robhuzz wrote...
BioWare should also learn from this: Listen to constructive feedback and use that, don't pay attention to whiners and such because I feel they're looking into that last group way too much at this moment.

I think the EA influence is the biggest threat to Bioware, not the fans.

Also, this article is full of crap.

The savagery displayed this week flows not from specifics but from the sense of ownership that makes some gamers believe that they own the  games they play.

!!! Really? If I've paid money for something, I generally think I own it! I also think I'm entitled to give feedback both good and bad on that product.

That's a common mistake; gamers buy games, so naturally they feel entitled to them. But games are, and have always been, the  property of the people who made them.

What nonsense. This is nothing to do with entitlement! The IP may belong to the Devs/Pubs, but if they want me to purchase sequels/DLCs etc, then I'd expect them to listen to constructive feedback on what the fanbase liked/didn't like. Ultimately, what they do with the IP is their choice, but I have a right to voice my opinion. Just because some ****s on that cesspool twitter got out of line, does not make anyone who criticises a Dev/Pub 'entitled'.

Abirn wrote...

I love how having expectations is now considered to be "entitlement mentality" How sad is that, were being derided for having basic expectations on things were paying 60+ dollars for.

Totally agree. We're consumers and we have the right to have high expectations for products we're laying down our hard earned cash for. Developers and Publishers should also have high expectations for their own products - to produce the best products they can and offer the best service - in order to please their customers and encourage future sales.

Unfortunately, we seem to have reached a place in the games industry where the big publishers seem to treat paying customers with disdain and mistrust. Where it's actually more attractive to pirate games than to buy, because of the requirements of DRM, multiple game exclusive clients, excessive day 1 DLC packs, online passes, online activation/always on requirements etc etc. The paying customer is increasingly getting the shaft these days and it's driving more and more people to the alternative - piracy.

What happened with the twitter spat shouldn't have even been news, frankly. If a guy had gotten abuse I doubt it would have anyway. Someone was rude on the internet! News at 11! Doesn't make it right, of course not, but it's got nothing to do with 'entitlement' and this article was full of $%$%!

Modifié par Beefcake9000, 22 février 2012 - 10:43 .

[Crimson_D-bag]

^This^
gotta keep em on their toes

[Crimson_D-bag]

sry doubled

Modifié par Crimson_D-bag, 22 février 2012 - 10:53 .

[Rockworm503]

Mister Mida wrote...

AshenSugar wrote...

On the plus side, the guy who made the remarks about my father also happened to be on the same realm as myself, on the opposite faction; and fairly low level when compared to my character (why he also played on an RP/PvP realm I have no idea as he clearly hated role-players).... and so after spotting his character in-game, I proceeded to stalk and corpse camp the living crap out of him, killing him again and again and again and again at every possible opportunity.

I had some friends make characters in other faction, who would alert me on Ventrillo or XFire every time this guy logged in, telling me his location... and off I'd go on my level 70 Shadow Priest ready to make his life an utter misery! He didn't even have a chance.

Very childish I know.. but it felt good at the time.

Yes... but somehow, I can approve.

Best use of your time if you ask me.
Wish I had something half as fun to talk about with my time with WoW.

[Rinor]

Bioware fans are a disgrace, news at 11.

[1Nosphorus1]

Lakan Suko wrote...Wait, in the official wow forums? No action was taken against the original attackers?... Seriously, did they have some **** moderators?? As a moderator myself on another forum, you know how much it pains me to hear something like that?? I just simply don't understand that, im quite baffled, what should've happened, rather, is they recieve their ban, and at most you would have been told not to take matters in your own hands, but regardless the mods should've understood the current situation... I really hope something was done to those accurately named "bastards"...

As an ex-wow player myself, I can confirm that this kind of player treatment is widespread, and I played on the EU servers. In class forums people who ask for help are attacked by personal insults all the time, you can't discuss anything of any relative importance to the game unless you've got the gear/ratings/achievements otherwise people will literally "armory" you and shoot you down in one of the worst manners ever. 

All of this is before you've even EDIT: IN game.

WizenSlinky0 wrote...I wasn't aware of that, thank you. I'm not really interested in pursuing anything about it so I probably won't look it up (unless I get bored and go on a wikipedia binge). But it's an interesting concept nonetheless and it's nice to see it was at least tried.

The old arcade game Dragon's Lair was like an interactive Disney Cartoon (It was actually animated by the legendary Don Bluth), basically the player would either move the stick in a certain direction or press the attack button at key moments in the movie to get a different result, I'd suggest going on youtube or hell I've even got it on my iPhone now.

Now on topic: I think the personal abuse against Hepler is horrific, especially if it's concerning the idea about skipping combat because I actually think that it's a good idea that should be implemented into certain types of games (L.A Noire had this feature although I rocked at the combat). Although I have to agree with the Destructoid view of the dilemma, Hepler saying that they're just angry because "I have a job in the gaming industry and a vagina and they can't get either" isn't really helping the situation, aswel as Bioware GM calling the guy a "F****** moron".

It could've got handled a lot better, but instead they stooped down to the trolls levels and it's just adding more fuel to the fire and it's reminding me about that whole situation of "David Gaider blasting homophobic fan" again.

Modifié par 1Nosphorus1, 22 février 2012 - 11:07 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Just to clarify, this was the internet that attacked her. It wasn't a collaboration of Bioware fans, it was a collaboration of 4 chan and Reddit teens who are butthurt over her comment. There may be a sprinkle of disgruntled BG2 and KOTOR fans; but to suggest that this is a BSN effort is ****ing absurd.

[Arppis]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Just to clarify, this was the internet that attacked her. It wasn't a collaboration of Bioware fans, it was a collaboration of 4 chan and Reddit teens who are butthurt over her comment. There may be a sprinkle of disgruntled BG2 and KOTOR fans; but to suggest that this is a BSN effort is ****ing absurd.

No wonder she got so depressed.

[Ruud333]

Dr. rotinaj wrote...

MoltenRock wrote...

Internet Backdraft

See also:

Fan Dumb

and in some cases:

Trolls

With those 3 pages i think one can explain the internet in general pretty well.

Damn it. I fell into tv tropes for 45 minutes.

I love that site - as you said it's very easy to lose track of time once you are in it

[SuddenlyPhoenix]

her idea is good, once you play a game
the second time round cut scenes and un skipable scnenes become a waste of time,
to fast forward would be great

[Beefcake9000]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Just to clarify, this was the internet that attacked her. It wasn't a collaboration of Bioware fans, it was a collaboration of 4 chan and Reddit teens who are butthurt over her comment. There may be a sprinkle of disgruntled BG2 and KOTOR fans; but to suggest that this is a BSN effort is ****ing absurd.

But suggesting that it's '4 chan and Reddit teens' is equally absurd. The people who were abusive represent no-one BUT THEMSELVES. Don't tar entire online communities because of the actions of a few. That's exactly the mistake this article does - it essentially blames all 'gamers' for being entitled douchbags because some ****s on twitter were rude. Don't fall into the same trap.

[AkiKishi]

Rockworm503 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...


Bioware made it who else would you blame? 

Try parodying this in the same way.

Now it all makes sense.
I don't have to parody Final Fantasy because they pretty much do that for me.  What a joke of a series how can anyone take that crap seriously?

What your doing is comparing gameplay footage to a cutscene.
not only is that unfair but its dishonest.  And parts of your ME3 video had the guy doing things on purpose to make it look bad.  I'm sorry but if you want to cricize the game but be honest don't latch onto the first youtube vidoe you see and think its working.

No thats' actually level 1 of the game it's the interactive tutorial level the same as the other youtube video is the interactive tutorial level for ME3. I did post a shortened version because it gets the point across anyway.

That's like your opinion so whatever you think about FF really not the issue here.

Nothing dishonest about it. Those things are in the game, if you take your time in level 1 you will notice them. Yes the music makes it funny. But if that was not a Bioware game would you be saying the same thing ? I think not. It's 2012 played next to the intro level of FFXIII-2 ME3 looks like something from decades ago.
But hey, if your happy with a flagship title of that quality it's your money.

[Arkitekt]

Hey Beef, if you dont think you are represented by those creeps, why the anger?

It seems to me that you disagree with the article's point, but curiously the way you go at it kinda makes it even truer.

No, you are not entitled to be listened by the developers, and if they do, then consider yourself lucky. You are entitled to choose between buying the games or not. Usually, if one goes being like an ass to the companies and developers, the chance you will be heard goes down ballistically.

However these are all people, and just like I wouldn't like to be harassed and insulted by clients or potential clients of mine because they disagree with my products, I obviously think that bioware folks deserve the same respect.

Entitlement is all over your posts, is it a problem that comes from a generation of spoiled brats or is it something else? I honestly do not know. But I sympathize with the devs.

[Goneaviking]

Abirn wrote...

I love how having expectations is now considered to be "entitlement mentality" How sad is that, were being derided for having basic expectations on things were paying 60+ dollars for.

"It is the height of entitlement to believe you can say whatever you want, as hurtful as you like, and expect not a word of a retort. Those gamers now acting butthurt because Flynn and Hepler responded to the abuse are as cretinous and pathetic as one can get."
www.destructoid.com/bioware-writer-s-vagina-versus-the-internet-222206.phtml

Modifié par Goneaviking, 22 février 2012 - 12:41 .

[Rob_K1]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...


Bioware made it who else would you blame? 

Try parodying this in the same way.

Now it all makes sense.
I don't have to parody Final Fantasy because they pretty much do that for me.  What a joke of a series how can anyone take that crap seriously?

What your doing is comparing gameplay footage to a cutscene.
not only is that unfair but its dishonest.  And parts of your ME3 video had the guy doing things on purpose to make it look bad.  I'm sorry but if you want to cricize the game but be honest don't latch onto the first youtube vidoe you see and think its working.

No thats' actually level 1 of the game it's the interactive tutorial level the same as the other youtube video is the interactive tutorial level for ME3. I did post a shortened version because it gets the point across anyway.

That's like your opinion so whatever you think about FF really not the issue here.

Nothing dishonest about it. Those things are in the game, if you take your time in level 1 you will notice them. Yes the music makes it funny. But if that was not a Bioware game would you be saying the same thing ? I think not. It's 2012 played next to the intro level of FFXIII-2 ME3 looks like something from decades ago.
But hey, if your happy with a flagship title of that quality it's your money.

That is not gameplay. It's a cinematic, hence the video's title: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening Cinematic (english) 720p

The game's combat is just like Final Fantasy XIII, based on the demo. It's largely automated with you telling which attacks to use for your currently selected character and saying when to switch 'paradgims' (or however you spell it).

There is a difference though. Sometimes, it will switch to what is like a Quick Time Event, where you're running up a boss' arm and are encouraged to push the buttons that appear on the screen.

So, it seems to me like you're comparing two completely different things. I will however concede that the game's graphics and such are good, but Final Fantasy games always do have good graphics. And yes, I second what was said about the maker of the ME 3 video going out of their way to make the game and BioWare look bad. I dare say that if you weren't intentionally looking for these things, you'd probably never notice them. I know I certainly didn't and only noticed the 2D figures thanks to a youtube video.

In keeping with the thread, people really should learn some common decency. If you write, then you know that critiques should be given in a constructive manner without crapping on authors/creators of content or their work. That video essentially seeks to do that in my view.

I mean, the one fault I had with the demo is the demo's frame-rate didn't seem 100% optimised for the PS3, but it wasn't bad enough that it makes me not like the game or anything. Neither do you see me calling BioWare or anyone else out on that. I can simply state it, without being an idiot about it.

Edit: Oh and in keeping with this topic, I don't think I've had a bad run with comments on my writing (no, it's nothing 'properly published' and is entirely internet based, mostly on games). I do have negative comments every now and then, but nothing bad and it's something you should take in your stride. I did have one comment though years ago from someone I've never interacted with before to the effect of 'hahahahaha, good luck with ur writing, loser'. No, it didn't get to me, but it did make me scratch my head. What makes people go out of their way to say things like that to people they don't know and on something that is hardly personal?

Bottom line, it's because the net makes people anonymous. They can be as idiotic and as offensive as they'd like to be without repercussions, aside from a temporary/permanent ban from a website/forum. It's a sad state of affairs, but there you are. And yes, the people attacking others for no good reason are idiots. The moment you show that they've affected you though, they win.

One other thing too, when you buy a game, you own it, yes. But BioWare are not obligated to make the game how you want it to be. It is still their game at the end of the day, regardless of whether they make good or bad decisions (in your view only).

Modifié par Rob_K1, 22 février 2012 - 01:07 .

[Arkitekt]

What? You sure that saying something like "Anderson walks funny YOU LAZY SELL OUT BIOWAR CREEPS OMG ME1 WAS THE SHAIT NOW YOU ONLY CARE BOUT COD" isnt the way you should do it?

(nicholascagefacememe)
YOU DON'T SAY

[Beefcake9000]

Arkitekt wrote...

Hey Beef, if you dont think you are represented by those creeps, why the anger?

No anger. I just don't like to see generalisations about entire communities based on the actions of a few. As I said, the people being abusive only represent themselves.

No, you are not entitled to be listened by the developers, and if they do, then consider yourself lucky. You are entitled to choose between buying the games or not. Usually, if one goes being like an ass to the companies and developers, the chance you will be heard goes down ballistically.

I don't disagree at all, but if I do buy a product then I do think I have a right to provide constructive feedback. If they listen to that feedback is up to them. I was just making a point that we don't want to find ourselves in a situation where any negative criticism is labelled 'gamer entitlement'. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough.

However these are all people, and just like I wouldn't like to be harassed and insulted by clients or potential clients of mine because they disagree with my products, I obviously think that bioware folks deserve the same respect.

So do I.

Entitlement is all over your posts, is it a problem that comes from a generation of spoiled brats or is it something else?

I honestly don't get what you mean by this at all. If you're referring to my remarks regarding piracy then maybe you misunderstood me. I was simply saying that some of the big publishers like EA are walking down the dangerous path of alienating their paying customers - and that's simply bad business practice. It's not good for us as consumers, and it's not good for the industry as a whole. That's just my opinion but there's no 'sense of entitlement' there aside from the basic belief that as a paying customer I would hope to get a decent level of service / support in return. Sadly, that isn't always the case. But that's another issue altogther.

Modifié par Beefcake9000, 22 février 2012 - 01:10 .