404 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

android654 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Stuff like this makes it easy.

 

You reap what you sow.

You take videogames too damn seriously. It's no reason to treat people like s**t because you don't like the demo.

This.

Anyone who thinks what went down with Jennifer Hepler was appropriate needs to unplug the xbox and the computer for a couple weeks, and get some sunlight. Video games are not that important. It is entertainment, not life & death people.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 22 février 2012 - 01:10 .

[Random citizen]

I have two words for you, two words: Constructive criticism
Thats all folks.

[GnusmasTHX]

TullyMcNasty wrote...

Bioware has the worst fans. Easily.

Definitely.

[AkiKishi]

Han Shot First wrote...

android654 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Stuff like this makes it easy.

 

You reap what you sow.

You take videogames too damn seriously. It's no reason to treat people like s**t because you don't like the demo.

This.

Anyone who thinks what went down with Jennifer Hepler was appropriate needs to unplug the xbox and the computer for a couple weeks, and get some sunlight. Video games are not that important. It is entertainment, not life & death people.

I am not a part of that nor have I ever "insulted" a developer over anything other than games. I totally stand by the posted clip (as long as it's the one with the 2d sprites and animation) and maintain it's Biowares fault for making a game that allows people to make such parodies in the first place.

[Farbautisonn]

Ermn. The trolling was done by a 4chan mobsquad. The ugly side of "anonymous" that most so do cherish these days even if they are basically just in it for "teh lulz". We need heroes that bad apparently.

Its not a pretty picture, its juvenile and its idiotic. Constructive critizism and proper discourse would have been the way to go, but then noone is obliged beyond their abilities. But I do not undestand why it was blown so wide open and that "Gamers" suddenly became synonymous with "trolls".

Sure some old timers and newtimers of the Bioware fangroup have been somewhat miffed with the storytellilng lately, the "core competance" of Bioware and what made them who they are. Im one of those. I think the storytelling and the RPG bit has taken a serious backburner compared to the "pew pew" bit. But I dont think most of us would be so idiotic as to conduct our critizism as an outright troll. Even for "teh lulz".

Most of us are here because we love bioware and the franchise of ME. We have toons we have followed for years and we have distinct ideas about the game setting. Just as most who play RPGs, even tabletop ones do. Some want as much hack and slash as possible. Some is there for the loot. Others are there purely for the story. The LotR esque adventure. They dont give a crap about the Pew pew and would actually enjoy a game where you didnt have to pull a sword, a wand or a gun even once. So... differences in taste and viewpoints will exist even here. The "gung ho bio can do no wrong" fanbois, the "there are some critical points here and there" fanbois (me), and the "EA ruined everything, Im going to sue" fanbois. We all hold strong opinions and we all love our toons. And some are more easily offended than others. Some dont mind any critisim no matter how harsh. Others go "whitekninght" at the very suggestion of a possibility of some minor infraction or "slackling" on behalf of bio.

Anyway. If Bioware wants to expand their core competances into "pew pew", great, go for it. Its very profitable and the market for shoot em ups has a high turnover. Just do not forget the core competence that brought you here, or the fans that financed your rise to the top as a benchmark studio for storytelling. And do not get mad at constructive critizism.

[Random citizen]

"Games almost always include a way to 'button-through' dialogue without paying attention because they understand that some players don't enjoy listening to dialogue and they don't want to stop their fun," Hepler said in the interview. "Yet they persist in practically coming into your living room and forcing you to play through the combat even if you're a player who only enjoys the dialogue. In a game with sufficient story to be interesting without the fighting, there is no reason on earth that you can't have a little button at the corner of the screen that you can click to skip to the end of the fighting."

I agree with this general idea.

Modifié par Random citizen, 22 février 2012 - 01:27 .

[Reever]

Rob_K1 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...


Bioware made it who else would you blame? 

Try parodying this in the same way.

Now it all makes sense.
I don't have to parody Final Fantasy because they pretty much do that for me.  What a joke of a series how can anyone take that crap seriously?

What your doing is comparing gameplay footage to a cutscene.
not only is that unfair but its dishonest.  And parts of your ME3 video had the guy doing things on purpose to make it look bad.  I'm sorry but if you want to cricize the game but be honest don't latch onto the first youtube vidoe you see and think its working.

No thats' actually level 1 of the game it's the interactive tutorial level the same as the other youtube video is the interactive tutorial level for ME3. I did post a shortened version because it gets the point across anyway.

That's like your opinion so whatever you think about FF really not the issue here.

Nothing dishonest about it. Those things are in the game, if you take your time in level 1 you will notice them. Yes the music makes it funny. But if that was not a Bioware game would you be saying the same thing ? I think not. It's 2012 played next to the intro level of FFXIII-2 ME3 looks like something from decades ago.
But hey, if your happy with a flagship title of that quality it's your money.

That is not gameplay. It's a cinematic, hence the video's title: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening Cinematic (english) 720p

The game's combat is just like Final Fantasy XIII, based on the demo. It's largely automated with you telling which attacks to use for your currently selected character and saying when to switch 'paradgims' (or however you spell it).

There is a difference though. Sometimes, it will switch to what is like a Quick Time Event, where you're running up a boss' arm and are encouraged to push the buttons that appear on the screen.

So, it seems to me like you're comparing two completely different things. I will however concede that the game's graphics and such are good, but Final Fantasy games always do have good graphics. And yes, I second what was said about the maker of the ME 3 video going out of their way to make the game and BioWare look bad. I dare say that if you weren't intentionally looking for these things, you'd probably never notice them. I know I certainly didn't and only noticed the 2D figures thanks to a youtube video.

In keeping with the thread, people really should learn some common decency. If you write, then you know that critiques should be given in a constructive manner without crapping on authors/creators of content or their work. That video essentially seeks to do that in my view.

I mean, the one fault I had with the demo is the demo's frame-rate didn't seem 100% optimised for the PS3, but it wasn't bad enough that it makes me not like the game or anything. Neither do you see me calling BioWare or anyone else out on that. I can simply state it, without being an idiot about it.

-snip-

@Bob: so is he right? I´m too lazy to google it now! Because then your argumentation really wouldn´t apply.

As for being on-topic, I must say I´m amazed by the lack of hate and the support in this thread. Kudos to you, guys!
Everything I could say has already been said

[SpiffsGhost]

This is truly disgusting, that people think they have the right to flagrantly demoralize a developer over something so insightful. Hepler's comments are a valuable suggestion, and I think ME3 has constructed the best solution to this idea with the three play modes. The "Story Mode" is basically what she alluded to, and although it is not a fast-forward button, it still provides the action, but at a quicker pace that doesn't focus on tactics. What is wrong with that?

Let's be honest, the ME franchise has not been built solely on action. The story plays a large role (larger than action, in my opinion) and creates more intense memories. What do I remember from ME1? Talking with Sovereign, talking with Vigil, talk with Wrex. What do I remember from ME2? Talking with TIM, talking with Miranda, talking with Joker. I after a mission, I was more excited about seeing what my crew had to say than what the mission actually entailed.

The point is, we remember the story more readily than we do the battles in between. There is nothing wrong with playing a game strictly for the story.

Regards,
Spiff

[Arkitekt]

Very well beef, I get ya.

One small remark though, to be clear. I think that we, as citizens of western countries, we are indeed entitled to not only our opinions but also to express them. However, when one speaks about feedback, one should realise that devs do not have an inch of duty to read or hear any of those.

Some devs do listen. Some more than others, because some realise it is better practice to get feedback info and work with it. some others do not, and are probably fine anyway.

The problem arises when people feel they are "entitled" to be listened and to demand stuff to be made/corrected, or else they.... ahh pre-cancel their order or post order their canceling, smth like that , and fill their comments with rage and insults for the immense crime that has or will be perpetrated. The most hilarious/sad are those constantly demanding nitpicking information about an upcoming game OR ELSE!

[Arkitekt]

Bob, you admit having insulted a dev over game issues? Then thats part of the problem.

[Sejborg]

Being able to skip the combat in Dragon Age 2 is a pretty good idea!

[Chuvvy]

Why would anyone ever go to gamespot?

[sp0ck 06]

Wow, that story is just disgusting. It honestly makes me just not even want to play video games, or at least not be involved in any gamer communities. I know that just a small group of "people" raging at this woman (over an idea from 6 years ago??!), but even just looking at the sense of entitlement that some people have on these forums is appalling.

As gamers, I don't think we're really "entitled" to a g*ddamn thing, except choosing whether to buy a game or not. I know we all love our games and get furious when we think a developer is screwing with our favorite franchise. But there's a big difference between criticizing the developer as a whole and attacking an individual for a small comment made in passing. We're a bunch of nerds, folks. We aren't "entitled" to anything. We don't have the "right" to do anything. I hope Jennifer Hepler sues the s**t out of some of these people attacking her for no reason. It sickens me that the majority of the world has to struggle just to put food on the table, and we can sit in our air conditioned living rooms playing g-ddamn video games on a giant hdtv or some uber gaming PC, and still feel as though we are entitled to more. Be grateful for what we have and for the fact that we can even offer any input on our favorite games.

It makes me ashamed to be a part of this community. F**king people.

[AkiKishi]

Arkitekt wrote...

Bob, you admit having insulted a dev over game issues? Then thats part of the problem.

Well by "insulted" called them lazy and half assed sure. I mean what else do you call having 1 cave or 1 house layout in DA2 ?

It's no different than if you bought a shoddy product and the guy in CS tried to make it was good and revolutionary because they had left bits out.

[AkiKishi]

BlueDemonX wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...


Bioware made it who else would you blame? 

Try parodying this in the same way.

Now it all makes sense.
I don't have to parody Final Fantasy because they pretty much do that for me.  What a joke of a series how can anyone take that crap seriously?

What your doing is comparing gameplay footage to a cutscene.
not only is that unfair but its dishonest.  And parts of your ME3 video had the guy doing things on purpose to make it look bad.  I'm sorry but if you want to cricize the game but be honest don't latch onto the first youtube vidoe you see and think its working.

No thats' actually level 1 of the game it's the interactive tutorial level the same as the other youtube video is the interactive tutorial level for ME3. I did post a shortened version because it gets the point across anyway.

That's like your opinion so whatever you think about FF really not the issue here.

Nothing dishonest about it. Those things are in the game, if you take your time in level 1 you will notice them. Yes the music makes it funny. But if that was not a Bioware game would you be saying the same thing ? I think not. It's 2012 played next to the intro level of FFXIII-2 ME3 looks like something from decades ago.
But hey, if your happy with a flagship title of that quality it's your money.

That is not gameplay. It's a cinematic, hence the video's title: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening Cinematic (english) 720p

The game's combat is just like Final Fantasy XIII, based on the demo. It's largely automated with you telling which attacks to use for your currently selected character and saying when to switch 'paradgims' (or however you spell it).

There is a difference though. Sometimes, it will switch to what is like a Quick Time Event, where you're running up a boss' arm and are encouraged to push the buttons that appear on the screen.

So, it seems to me like you're comparing two completely different things. I will however concede that the game's graphics and such are good, but Final Fantasy games always do have good graphics. And yes, I second what was said about the maker of the ME 3 video going out of their way to make the game and BioWare look bad. I dare say that if you weren't intentionally looking for these things, you'd probably never notice them. I know I certainly didn't and only noticed the 2D figures thanks to a youtube video.

In keeping with the thread, people really should learn some common decency. If you write, then you know that critiques should be given in a constructive manner without crapping on authors/creators of content or their work. That video essentially seeks to do that in my view.

I mean, the one fault I had with the demo is the demo's frame-rate didn't seem 100% optimised for the PS3, but it wasn't bad enough that it makes me not like the game or anything. Neither do you see me calling BioWare or anyone else out on that. I can simply state it, without being an idiot about it.

-snip-

@Bob: so is he right? I´m too lazy to google it now! Because then your argumentation really wouldn´t apply.

As for being on-topic, I must say I´m amazed by the lack of hate and the support in this thread. Kudos to you, guys!
Everything I could say has already been said

It's interactive therefore it's gameplay. Both are the "tutorial" levels of the respective games.

But if you want something else run it side by side with ME2 I just did that on the demo feedback thread if you are interested.

[Rockworm503]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...


Bioware made it who else would you blame? 

Try parodying this in the same way.

Now it all makes sense.
I don't have to parody Final Fantasy because they pretty much do that for me.  What a joke of a series how can anyone take that crap seriously?

What your doing is comparing gameplay footage to a cutscene.
not only is that unfair but its dishonest.  And parts of your ME3 video had the guy doing things on purpose to make it look bad.  I'm sorry but if you want to cricize the game but be honest don't latch onto the first youtube vidoe you see and think its working.

No thats' actually level 1 of the game it's the interactive tutorial level the same as the other youtube video is the interactive tutorial level for ME3. I did post a shortened version because it gets the point across anyway.

That's like your opinion so whatever you think about FF really not the issue here.

Nothing dishonest about it. Those things are in the game, if you take your time in level 1 you will notice them. Yes the music makes it funny. But if that was not a Bioware game would you be saying the same thing ? I think not. It's 2012 played next to the intro level of FFXIII-2 ME3 looks like something from decades ago.
But hey, if your happy with a flagship title of that quality it's your money.

Opening cinematic.  Do you even pay attention to the videos you post?  That says openeing scenematic of FF XIII-2 (dear lord the title alone )

Opening cinematic vs playable demo of an early build to a game not even out yet.
Gosh I sure hope my judgement isn't biased here but one is prerendered animations for a cutscene and the other is early build of a demo.
Gosh of course the prerendered cutscene is going to look better.
Its not like Squaresoft spends their entire budget on those things or anything.... oh wait.

Modifié par Rockworm503, 22 février 2012 - 01:56 .

[NightAntilli]

And then people wonder why games and gamers are looked down upon by a lot of people...

[Reever]

@Bob: Nah, not really (or maybe later ^^)

On the one part, I do agree with you. There are >>minor<< things that aren´t really okay.
But on the other part, this really doesn´t matter to me (personally). As long as the major things are okay (story, cinematics, emotions), I´m happy.

Of course, that doesn´t mean they should neglect these things. So I do get you.

Another thing: There are people who say this is a demo, and then others say it isn´t a beta, it´s a representation of the game.
Still, manveeir for example said some bugs have been fixed in the retail version. So doesn´t that mean that this older build is not an exact representation? Who knows what else they fixed... (but I´m not desilusional, doubt they fixed the animations and such ^^).

Modifié par BlueDemonX, 22 février 2012 - 02:00 .

[AkiKishi]

Rockworm503 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...


Bioware made it who else would you blame? 

Try parodying this in the same way.

Now it all makes sense.
I don't have to parody Final Fantasy because they pretty much do that for me.  What a joke of a series how can anyone take that crap seriously?

What your doing is comparing gameplay footage to a cutscene.
not only is that unfair but its dishonest.  And parts of your ME3 video had the guy doing things on purpose to make it look bad.  I'm sorry but if you want to cricize the game but be honest don't latch onto the first youtube vidoe you see and think its working.

No thats' actually level 1 of the game it's the interactive tutorial level the same as the other youtube video is the interactive tutorial level for ME3. I did post a shortened version because it gets the point across anyway.

That's like your opinion so whatever you think about FF really not the issue here.

Nothing dishonest about it. Those things are in the game, if you take your time in level 1 you will notice them. Yes the music makes it funny. But if that was not a Bioware game would you be saying the same thing ? I think not. It's 2012 played next to the intro level of FFXIII-2 ME3 looks like something from decades ago.
But hey, if your happy with a flagship title of that quality it's your money.

Opening cinematic.  Do you even pay attention to the videos you post?  That says openeing scenematic of FF XIII-2 (dear lord the title alone )

Opening cinematic vs playable demo of an early build to a game not even out yet.
Gosh I sure hope my judgement isn't biased here but one is prerendered animations for a cutscene and the other is early build of a demo.
Gosh of course the prerendered cutscene is going to look better.
Its not like Squaresoft spends their entire budget on those things or anything.... oh wait.

Full version 'k ? 

 

It's interactive therefore not a cinematic. Enjoy.

Tutorial elements removed.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 22 février 2012 - 02:08 .

[Random citizen]

Sejborg wrote...

Being able to skip the combat in Dragon Age 2 is a pretty good idea!

Ironic are we? The general idea is sound if its optional and the other gameplay and story-elements are well developed and engaging.

Modifié par Random citizen, 22 février 2012 - 02:09 .

[Rob_K1]

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's interactive therefore it's gameplay. Both are the "tutorial" levels of the respective games.

But if you want something else run it side by side with ME2 I just did that on the demo feedback thread if you are interested.

This is going off-topic here, apologies. But this annoys me. Where exactly are the interactive elements in the Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening Cinematic (english) 720p video you linked?

You are comparing that video, one of a cinematic/cutscene no less, to this video of Mass Effect 3, which features gameplay only. One designed to make Mass Effect 3 and BioWare look bad. Nevermind the fact that the games are quite different. One's a JRPG with overly flashy cutscenes that can be lengthy, while one's... well, Mass Effect. Bottom line, they try to do different things.

And if you really want to get technical, this is the extended intro cinematic with the interactive bits added. That is the combat from around 7:17 onwards: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening and Interactive Bits.

As I said, the game has you selecting commands from a menu in a largely automated battle system. The real interactive cinematic bits that have you running up a boss' arm are quick time events. The Quick Time bits can be seen from around 12:29 as well. I might add that your success during the Quick Time Events would probably determine how do you during the 'combat cutscenes', between each quick time event or combat sequence that has you choosing commands. That is guess work only though, because I cannot say I've failed a QTE during the game's demo, nor have I played it much because to be frank, I did not find the demo too appealing.

So, you don't have an agenda much, do you? Nothing against Mass Effect 3 or BioWare at all, where you try to twist things in favor of your argument just to make it look like your arguments etc. are valid?

Modifié par Rob_K1, 22 février 2012 - 02:19 .

[DaJe]

Wow I didn't know about this attack on Hepler. Faith in humanity lost.

[AkiKishi]

Rob_K1 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's interactive therefore it's gameplay. Both are the "tutorial" levels of the respective games.

But if you want something else run it side by side with ME2 I just did that on the demo feedback thread if you are interested.

This is going off-topic here, apologies. But this annoys me. Where exactly are the interactive elements in the Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening Cinematic (english) 720p video you linked?

You are comparing that video, one of a cinematic/cutscene no less, to this video of Mass Effect 3, which features gameplay only. One designed to make Mass Effect 3 and BioWare look bad. Nevermind the fact that the games are quite different. One's a JRPG with overly flashy cutscenes that can be lengthy, while one's... well, Mass Effect. Bottom line, they try to do different things.

And if you really want to get technical, this is the extended intro cinematic with the interactive bits added. That is the combat from around 7:17 onwards: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening and Interactive Bits.

As I said, the game has you selecting commands from a menu in a largely automated battle system. The real interactive cinematic bits that have you running up a boss' arm are quick time events. The Quick Time bits can be seen from around 12:29 as well.

So, you don't have an agenda much, do you? Nothing against Mass Effect 3 or BioWare at all, where you try to twist things in favor of your argument just to make it look like your arguments etc. are valid?

I'm comparing opening levels of two big releases of 2012. If you want another example as I said above just compare the opening level of ME2 with ME3.

Do you want me to compare the cinematic introduction of ME3 against FFXIII-2 as well ?

I wanted ME3 to be a game that looked like it was made in 2012 not 1990. If a dev had stepped up and confirmed this was a six month old build and those were place holder textures, then none of this would have happened.

But lets look at DA2. Review embargo , similiar demo, "coverup" over missing features. Given a similiar quality demo your wonder why I'm suspicious ?

Modifié par BobSmith101, 22 février 2012 - 02:21 .

[SpiffsGhost]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Wow, that story is just disgusting. It honestly makes me just not even want to play video games, or at least not be involved in any gamer communities. I know that just a small group of "people" raging at this woman (over an idea from 6 years ago??!), but even just looking at the sense of entitlement that some people have on these forums is appalling.

As gamers, I don't think we're really "entitled" to a g*ddamn thing, except choosing whether to buy a game or not. I know we all love our games and get furious when we think a developer is screwing with our favorite franchise. But there's a big difference between criticizing the developer as a whole and attacking an individual for a small comment made in passing. We're a bunch of nerds, folks. We aren't "entitled" to anything. We don't have the "right" to do anything. I hope Jennifer Hepler sues the s**t out of some of these people attacking her for no reason. It sickens me that the majority of the world has to struggle just to put food on the table, and we can sit in our air conditioned living rooms playing g-ddamn video games on a giant hdtv or some uber gaming PC, and still feel as though we are entitled to more. Be grateful for what we have and for the fact that we can even offer any input on our favorite games.

It makes me ashamed to be a part of this community. F**king people.

^^ This!

[Rob_K1]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's interactive therefore it's gameplay. Both are the "tutorial" levels of the respective games.

But if you want something else run it side by side with ME2 I just did that on the demo feedback thread if you are interested.

This is going off-topic here, apologies. But this annoys me. Where exactly are the interactive elements in the Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening Cinematic (english) 720p video you linked?

You are comparing that video, one of a cinematic/cutscene no less, to this video of Mass Effect 3, which features gameplay only. One designed to make Mass Effect 3 and BioWare look bad. Nevermind the fact that the games are quite different. One's a JRPG with overly flashy cutscenes that can be lengthy, while one's... well, Mass Effect. Bottom line, they try to do different things.

And if you really want to get technical, this is the extended intro cinematic with the interactive bits added. That is the combat from around 7:17 onwards: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Opening and Interactive Bits.

As I said, the game has you selecting commands from a menu in a largely automated battle system. The real interactive cinematic bits that have you running up a boss' arm are quick time events. The Quick Time bits can be seen from around 12:29 as well.

So, you don't have an agenda much, do you? Nothing against Mass Effect 3 or BioWare at all, where you try to twist things in favor of your argument just to make it look like your arguments etc. are valid?

I'm comparing opening levels of two big releases of 2012. If you want another example as I said above just compare the opening level of ME2 with ME3.

Do you want me to compare the cinematic introduction of ME3 against FFXIII-2 as well ?

You are comparing 'two different types of games'.