404 réponses à ce sujet

[GuardianAngel470]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

android654 wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...
Hepler showed her throat to gain some sympathy and this is what happens. The people attacking her may be douchebags, but she's handled it poorly.

And you're a douche for suggesting that someone is deliberatly being advantageous about being mistreated

Shows what your opinion is worth if all you've got to throw around are insults. She poked the hornets' nest with that snarky little comment of hers by basically calling her attackers a bunch of nerds, that helped nothing.

And that fact in absolutely, positively, irrefutably NO WAY justifies what has happened to her.

I don't care if she bluntly called all gamers fat, useless, pathetic basement dwellers living with their parents. No one deserves this treatment. Period.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Ah, the gaming rags write their obligatory "did they go too far?" touchy-feely stuff. I could have predicted this. Naturally any of the legitimate criticism and commentary regarding Bioware/EA is ignored in favor of a bunch of writers acting all shocked and traumatized over the offensive/humorous comments directed at Hepler.

Lets get to my favorite bit, shall we?

But BioWare has the right to do so much more. It has the right to pursue legal action against Hepler's attackers. It has the right to shut them out of its community, to refuse them any kind of service in the future. It has the right to tell them that this behavior has no place in the gaming community, to show them that every sexist, racist, comment only serves to undo years of growth and progress in changing outdated attitudes in the industry.

Translation:

Bioware ought to strip customers of the ability to use the products they paid for under the guise of reacting to "hate speech" and nonsense about critics "halting progress in changing outdated attitudes in the industry."

It's no different than politicians use "hate speech" in an attempt to strip people of their rights. And today's culture constantly preaches that we ensure no "minority" ever gets offended by anything, even at the costs of our own rights and freedoms.

But it's okay for the "minority" to offend the majority because they can claim some BS about "fighting against double-standards" etc. and these same foolish journalists eat it right up.

This has nothing to do with women in the gaming industry, they've been there for awhile. The fact that she is a woman is simply being used as to deflect any sort of criticism.

Is Gamespot, Kotaku and everybody else oblivious to the nature of the internet? Toughen up, take your laughs where you can get them, and let the "hate machine" roll. Everybody riding in on their high horse to act outraged and ashamed only feed it.

Ask yourself what would happen if a male employee said "they're just jealous because I have a penis and work in the gaming industry"? He'd be fired or severely punished, that's what would happen. That is, unless he could play some "minority" card.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 22 février 2012 - 07:12 .

[DaringMoosejaw]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

And that fact in absolutely, positively, irrefutably NO WAY justifies what has happened to her.

I don't care if she bluntly called all gamers fat, useless, pathetic basement dwellers living with their parents. No one deserves this treatment. Period.

Deserves? No, they certainly don't deserve the treatment, but neither do they automatically deserve sympathy. She's getting harassed by a bunch of trolls on the internet. She hasn't been assaulted, she hasn't had her life ruined. I bet there's a least five guys on the staff who's gotten this crap worse than her over a period of years, but nobody gives a **** about them.

[GuardianAngel470]

ReconTeam wrote...

Ah, the gaming rags write their obligatory "did they go too far?" touchy-feely stuff. I could have predicted this. Naturally any of the legitimate criticism and commentary regarding Bioware/EA is ignored in favor of a bunch of writers acting all shocked and traumatized over the offensive/humorous comments directed at Hepler.

Lets get to my favorite bit, shall we?

But BioWare has the right to do so much more. It has the right to pursue legal action against Hepler's attackers. It has the right to shut them out of its community, to refuse them any kind of service in the future. It has the right to tell them that this behavior has no place in the gaming community, to show them that every sexist, racist, comment only serves to undo years of growth and progress in changing outdated attitudes in the industry.

Translation:

Bioware ought to strip customers of the ability to use the products they paid for under the guise of reacting to "hate speech" and nonsense about critics "halting progress in changing outdated attitudes in the industry."

It's no different than politicians use "hate speech" in an attempt to strip people of their rights. And today's culture constantly preaches that we ensure no "minority" ever gets offended by anything, even at the costs of our own rights and freedoms.

But it's okay for the "minority" to offend the majority because they can claim some BS about "fighting against double-standards" etc. and these same foolish journalists eat it right up.

This has nothing to do with women in the gaming industry, they've been there for awhile. The fact that she is a woman is simply being used as to deflect any sort of criticism.

Is Gamespot, Kotaku and everybody else oblivious to the nature of the internet? Toughen up, take your laughs where you can get them, and let the "hate machine" roll. Everybody riding in on their high horse to act outraged and ashamed only feed it.

Ask yourself what would happen if a male employee said "they're just jealous because I have a penis and work in the gaming industry"? He'd be fired or severely punished, that's what would happen. That is, unless he could play some "minority" card.

Yup, you just ignored the sentiment and focused on the technicalities.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone on the internet has to endure this treatment. The fact that she is a woman is irrelevant, completely. It's the treatment she received for little to no provocation that is the issue here.

Was the writers' choice to include her gender as a point of argument based on current PC trends? Sure. Is the sentiment of each article in any way hampered by its inclusion? Not at all.

Demonizing a human being for a comment is vile and shallow. This has nothing to do with political correctness. Sure she was called a whore, cunt, and bitch solely because she was a woman. Sure there were insults and threats targetted at her because of her gender.

But the fact that she is a woman is secondary in this discussion. The fact that she had to endure those insults, slander (which is illegal in most states by the way), and violent threats at all is a very very bad thing.

I understand your sentiment, but don't agree with your heartlessness.

[GuardianAngel470]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

And that fact in absolutely, positively, irrefutably NO WAY justifies what has happened to her.

I don't care if she bluntly called all gamers fat, useless, pathetic basement dwellers living with their parents. No one deserves this treatment. Period.

Deserves? No, they certainly don't deserve the treatment, but neither do they automatically deserve sympathy. She's getting harassed by a bunch of trolls on the internet. She hasn't been assaulted, she hasn't had her life ruined. I bet there's a least five guys on the staff who's gotten this crap worse than her over a period of years, but nobody gives a **** about them.

A girl committed suicide because of comments on the internet. Don't underestimate the power of a comment on the internet. You may feel like it's just an empty comment but they actually do do measurable damage to human beings.

[Inquisitor Recon]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
I understand your sentiment, but don't agree with your heartlessness.

It's not the lack of a heart, it's the fact that it's a superior robot-heart, like the one Tony Stark has.

[DJBare]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

A girl committed suicide because of comments on the internet. Don't underestimate the power of a comment on the internet. You may feel like it's just an empty comment but they actually do do measurable damage to human beings.

Unfortunately this has little sway with many people due to the impersonal nature of the internet, they are not there to witness the hurt and anguish first hand, but here's the odd thing, if one of those people recieved an anonymous letter in the post with insults and threat's, you can bet they will take it seriously.

[GuardianAngel470]

DJBare wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

A girl committed suicide because of comments on the internet. Don't underestimate the power of a comment on the internet. You may feel like it's just an empty comment but they actually do do measurable damage to human beings.

Unfortunately this has little sway with many people due to the impersonal nature of the internet, they are not there to witness the hurt and anguish first hand, but here's the odd thing, if one of those people recieved an anonymous letter in the post with insults and threat's, you can bet they will take it seriously.

Pretty much. That's one thing I've noticed while on here and elsewhere. People say whatever the hell they want because they don't recognize the internet as real life. Personally I always try and keep in mind that anyone I talk to on the internet is in fact a real person (unless AI's got more prevalent without me knowing) and so I write my posts accordingly.

When you distance yourself and use acronyms like IRL to discuss things you depersonalize the situation, making it much harder to empathize with the other person. Despite this whatever it is you say is read as a comment from another person by everybody but internet veterans. Insults carry just as much weight as they would if spoken face to face which is absolutely horrible when you think about it because many of the insults are things you would almost never hear from someone face to face.

How many of the people that did this crap to Hepler would call her those things in person? Probably not many, but saying it on the internet is just as bad as saying it in person from her perspective. Stuff like that can really hurt people.

[FoxShadowblade]

DJBare wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

A girl committed suicide because of comments on the internet. Don't underestimate the power of a comment on the internet. You may feel like it's just an empty comment but they actually do do measurable damage to human beings.

Unfortunately this has little sway with many people due to the impersonal nature of the internet, they are not there to witness the hurt and anguish first hand, but here's the odd thing, if one of those people recieved an anonymous letter in the post with insults and threat's, you can bet they will take it seriously.

If anyone let a comment on the internet drive her to commit suicide, it's likely she was headed there anyway. You know I've been sued, fired, and outright punched for voicing my opinions on people "irl"? Then I go on the internet and tell them the same thing, and nothing happens. Day after day.

Why shouldn't we be allowed to say what we want when we want and not give a damn about it? And if you try to tell me free speech is a bad thing because it hurts people's feelings and we should all conform to a higher standard, I'll call you a GD communist and call it a night.

Now don't get me wrong, I feel for the woman, but if she can't take the heat for an article, she shouldn't have said anything in the first place. And though I don't condone the comments made against her, I know that gamers are a petty bunch of ****s, I've been on BSN long enough to last a lifetime of that. I just think she should have seen it coming. 

That rant being said, poor Hepler. And anyone who has lashed out at her so is out of their mind, basic nutjobs. It's a game, stop taking it so damn personal.

[Vapaa]

The gaming community as a whole is a total piece of garbage, I'm disgusted to even be part of it, those so-called gamers ARE the real cancer of the gaming industry with their selfish and pseudo-elitist attitude <_<

Modifié par Vapaä, 22 février 2012 - 07:53 .

[daftPirate]

It's pretty sad that this happened, and I have to say I largely agree with the article. These are the only gaming forums I've used, and I've not been here long, but some things are...intense. And I'm sure that elsewhere isn't any different. To me, Mass Effect is and always has belonged to BioWare. I'm a guest in their world, and they decide how it works. If they make changes, that's their call. I choose whether or not to like them. If I don't, then I can just opt out. I won't lose sleep, and neither will BioWare. Fortunately, Mass Effect has always entertained me, and looks to continue to do so, so that's a win for me.

[Anacronian Stryx]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Stuff like this makes it easy.

 

You reap what you sow.

Cancel my cancel preorder.. that looked awesome , thank you sir.

[Almostfaceman]

FoxShadowblade wrote...

DJBare wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

A girl committed suicide because of comments on the internet. Don't underestimate the power of a comment on the internet. You may feel like it's just an empty comment but they actually do do measurable damage to human beings.

Unfortunately this has little sway with many people due to the impersonal nature of the internet, they are not there to witness the hurt and anguish first hand, but here's the odd thing, if one of those people recieved an anonymous letter in the post with insults and threat's, you can bet they will take it seriously.

If anyone let a comment on the internet drive her to commit suicide, it's likely she was headed there anyway. You know I've been sued, fired, and outright punched for voicing my opinions on people "irl"? Then I go on the internet and tell them the same thing, and nothing happens. Day after day.

Why shouldn't we be allowed to say what we want when we want and not give a damn about it? And if you try to tell me free speech is a bad thing because it hurts people's feelings and we should all conform to a higher standard, I'll call you a GD communist and call it a night.

Well, we don't say what we want when we want and not give a damn about it because we're supposed to be civilized human beings. Ever heard of manners? Being polite? Being decent to your fellow human will not destroy your free speech. The First Amendment wasn't drafted so we can all be uncouth savages.

Since when did being a polite civilized person stop being something we all strive for and are proud of? Sheesh.

As for suicide, all of us normal people feel an obligation to help folks who are depressed. So why would hate speech against another person be tolerated? There's no excuse, we should all try to be helpful to our fellow man and and be polite and reasonable with one another. Anything less is uncivilized.

[Drone223]

Vapaä wrote...

The gaming community as a whole is a total piece of garbage, I'm disgusted to even be part of it, those so-called gamers ARE the real cancer of the gaming industry with their selfish and pseudo-elitist attitude <_<

^This

Devs put their hearts into their work and they have to put up with this sort of treatment by their fans

Modifié par Drone223, 22 février 2012 - 08:13 .

[tobynator89]

Vapaä wrote...

The gaming community as a whole is a total piece of garbage, I'm disgusted to even be part of it, those so-called gamers ARE the real cancer of the gaming industry with their selfish and pseudo-elitist attitude <_<

this

[Inquisitor Recon]

Almostfaceman wrote...
Well, we don't say what we want when we want and not give a damn about it because we're supposed to be civilized human beings. Ever heard of manners? Being polite? Being decent to your fellow human will not destroy your free speech. The First Amendment wasn't drafted so we can all be uncouth savages.

Since when did being a polite civilized person stop being something we all strive for and are proud of? Sheesh.

As for suicide, all of us normal people feel an obligation to help folks who are depressed. So why would hate speech against another person be tolerated? There's no excuse, we should all try to be helpful to our fellow man and and be polite and reasonable with one another. Anything less is uncivilized.

Yeah. If people won't have manners on their own thanks to the downwards direction society has been going, lets have the government and the lawyers step in. Free speech? Only when it meets the standards as defined by a diversity and correctness committee.

That's a bit extreme, but such thinking can lead to a violation of our rights. Remember that the worst parts of the internet are a symptom of greater problems and not a cause themselves.

Girl commits suicide and those "haters" will laugh at the stupid reasons she did it. That's the internet and it isn't going to change because some journalists say they are mean. If the internet has that much control over one's life, like it did for that girl, maybe they should go offline for awhile. Stop making yourself a target (and whatever you do online will make yourself a target for somebody) and it will all fade in time. The same is true for Heplergate.

I've always found it best to let yourself laugh at the humor involved rather than ride in on a high horse and act all outraged. And maybe only horribly cynical and jaded individuals like myself can find something to laugh about, but I'll be damned before I have somebody tell me that I shouldn't be laughing.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 22 février 2012 - 08:32 .

[Legendaryred]

So a bunch of anons trolled her on the internet.

[GuardianAngel470]

ReconTeam wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
Well, we don't say what we want when we want and not give a damn about it because we're supposed to be civilized human beings. Ever heard of manners? Being polite? Being decent to your fellow human will not destroy your free speech. The First Amendment wasn't drafted so we can all be uncouth savages.

Since when did being a polite civilized person stop being something we all strive for and are proud of? Sheesh.

As for suicide, all of us normal people feel an obligation to help folks who are depressed. So why would hate speech against another person be tolerated? There's no excuse, we should all try to be helpful to our fellow man and and be polite and reasonable with one another. Anything less is uncivilized.

Yeah. If people won't have manners on their own thanks to the downwards direction society has been going, lets have the government and the lawyers step in. Free speech? Only when it meets the standards as defined by a diversity and correctness committee.

That's a bit extreme, but such thinking can lead to a violation of our rights. Remember that the worst parts of the internet are a symptom of greater problems and not a cause themselves.

Girl commits suicide and those "haters" will laugh at the stupid reasons she did it. That's the internet and it isn't going to change because some journalists say they are mean. If the internet has that much control over one's life, like it did for that girl, maybe they should go offline for awhile. Stop making yourself a target (and whatever you do online will make yourself a target for somebody) and it will all fade in time. The same is true for Heplergate.

I've always found it best to let yourself laugh at the humor involved rather than ride in on a high horse and act all outraged. And maybe only horribly cynical and jaded individuals like myself can find something to laugh about, but I'll be damned before I have somebody tell me that I shouldn't be laughing.

I understand and partially agree with your point Recon but the only reason lawyers and the government would get involved would be if it got seriously out of hand.

The only alternative to that is that we police ourselves. Internet users actively criticizing the people doing the hating (like this thread), companies actively banning and censoring offending comments (within reason of course), and a general propogation of a better culture than this.

Because the fact is that Slander is illegal in most if not all of the US and these people can take legal action. I don't want that for the reasons you pointed out so our only reasonable course of action is to get upset and take to Twitter, Facebook, and the like and actively combat these people.

What else can we do?

[Rockworm503]

You know what the real disgusting part about all of it is this is nothing new.
People think because they don't have to use their real names that they can say or do anything.
The mentality is that we're going to complain about every aspect of your game (that silly video on the first page is perfect proof of this) Then we're going make a big deal like our money is the reason their companies still around and then its like half the people were going to pirate it anyway but hey that gives us the entitlement to treat the people who made the game like scum.

Makes you wonder why anyone even bothers making games with that attitude. Must be an industry full of masochists.

[Arppis]

DJBare wrote...

When they(so called gamers) start using profanity, religion, culture and gender in their responses, I just put it down to nutters who have access to the internet.

Too true, mate.

[Rockworm503]

piemanz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Stuff like this makes it easy.

 

You reap what you sow.

Mute the video and re-watch it.

Jesus christ thats pathetic.
The guy who made that video did things on PURPOSE just to make the demo look bad.
Yeah if you play story mode the enemies are going too be easier.
He clearly expected his viewers to be dumb.

[ElementL09]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

And that fact in absolutely, positively, irrefutably NO WAY justifies what has happened to her.

I don't care if she bluntly called all gamers fat, useless, pathetic basement dwellers living with their parents. No one deserves this treatment. Period.

Deserves? No, they certainly don't deserve the treatment, but neither do they automatically deserve sympathy. She's getting harassed by a bunch of trolls on the internet. She hasn't been assaulted, she hasn't had her life ruined. I bet there's a least five guys on the staff who's gotten this crap worse than her over a period of years, but nobody gives a **** about them.

A girl committed suicide because of comments on the internet. Don't underestimate the power of a comment on the internet. You may feel like it's just an empty comment but they actually do do measurable damage to human beings.

If she had someone to talk to who would have supported her and told her to ignore what others say (parents? friends?) then I strongly believe she wouldn't commit suicide over comments over the internet. 

People need to just toughen up in general.  Comments over the internet are just comments, what people say to you over the internet isn't what they actually mean or say they can do in real life.

Seriously:  Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.  <--- if that can apply in real life, then why not over the internet.

[Drone223]

EDIT: nevermind

Modifié par Drone223, 22 février 2012 - 09:03 .

[Yuqi]

Disgusting, but thats the current line of thin Ice the gaming industry is walking.

[Drone223]

Yuqi wrote...

Disgusting, but thats the current line of thin Ice the gaming industry is walking.

Sadly its gets worse each year