118 réponses à ce sujet

[Weltea]

Wulfram wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Elthina's problem was that she was far too passive. Why didn't she do anything about Meredith?

Meredith's the one with the swords.

Which she would never lift against Elthina. She becomes basically completely submissive when Elthina shows up.

Elthina not doing anything was just due to her being a ****

[Elhanan]

Brockololly wrote...

Sure, but you can't tell me that in the course of development, they came up with the notion of "The Tranquil Solution"  and weren't in some way thinking of Germany in the 30s/40s. And then to use the word 'holocaust' in that banter as yet another word? Please. They could have used any number of other words beyond holocaust there. The context is clearly trying to connect it to the Holocaust that actually happened in the real world.

Its about as subtle as Gaider smacking you in the face with a frying pan and screaming " HEY THOSE TEMPLARS ARE LIKE THE ****S! FINAL SOLUTION? HOLOCAUST? GET IT?" Its totally unnecessary.

Possibly, but if so, it is contextually correct at that moment; nothing offensive at all. The idea of a Tranquil Solution was halted by the Chantry and Templar leadership, though it may resurface in the flames of Ander's misdeed. It is a cautionary note that it could indeed happen, and easily given different circumstances, which are now in play.

For myself, if evil is depicted as Evil, then I find little to be offensive. This is the way I instructed my PnP games in the church basement, lobby, and demos, and it seemed to aid in bridging the gap of ignorance.

But I guess my talent for knowing the thoughts of others is not as strong as some, it seems. My bad....

Its about as clever as if they gave the Templars involved little Hitler mustaches and Swastika armbands. Trying to draw an allusion between actual human suffering and the deaths of millions of real people in the real world to a half baked video game plot is tacky at best. Leave the imaginary tragedies of Dragon Age in Dragon Age and don't try to poorly equivocate them to real events.  They could have done a similar plot without the overt allusions to the actual Holocaust and it would have been far better. As it is, its bad writing that pulls me out of the game and thinking "Did they actually try to make an allusion to the Holocaust and Hitler's Final Solution in a video game?"

Some folks see faces in their toast, too; gotta wonder if they are as defensive as this. If one chooses to be offended by the possible sources and inspirations for tales, then they are probably going to be cranky a lot; maybe even more than me.

Personally, I like the idea that there are good and bad leaders on both side of the war; much better than to stereotype one side as being totally vile. Staying with the historical notion, this is the reason I much prefer Band of Brothers to Schindler's List as historical drama, as the former film revealed the humanity in all people that the latter concealed. The scene of the local woman that was cleaning up the prisoner camp atrosity made more of an impact to me than the latter film did it in it's entirety.

And while you and others may have done it differenly does not equate what was given as good or bad, as it is only your opinion; not any greater or less worth than mine or the writers.

Again, yes, its a fine word to use, but in the context of the "Tranquil Solution" you can't tell me that the writers didn't see how that can't be directly linked to the real world events of **** Germany. Its like ESPN putting up the headline "****** in the Armor" after Jeremy Lin lost his first game as starter. On its own, its a headline like any other but in the context of knowing Lin is an Asian American, it can be seen as offensive or insensitive.

One should be offended at what happend in WW2; among the worst events in history. But to be offended by a possible reference in a game is a choice I am unwilling to make, and unable to understand. If a player manages to see the horror of history refected in a story as to help them to understand how easily something may occur, then this would would appear to be rather informative and positive.

Modifié par Elhanan, 25 février 2012 - 03:49 .

[Durgon Ironfist]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Branka and Hespith were among my favourites in DAO. Rarely have I been that creeped out by a non-hooror game!

First day, they come and catch everyone.
Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.
Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.
Fourth day, we wait and fear for our fate.
Fifth day, they return and it's another girl's turn.
Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.
Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.
Eighth day, we hated as she is violated.
Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.
Now she does feast, as she's become the beast.

[PrinceLionheart]

That is an impressive resume. The only character I really didn't care for from that list was Anders, but he was intentionally made to be polarizing.

[TEWR]

I find her DAO writing to be superb.

Her DAII writing is.... meh to me.

She's definitely a good writer, but the rushed nature of DAII hurt her quality imo.

[Realmzmaster]

Weltea wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Elthina's problem was that she was far too passive. Why didn't she do anything about Meredith?

Meredith's the one with the swords.

Which she would never lift against Elthina. She becomes basically completely submissive when Elthina shows up.

Elthina not doing anything was just due to her being a ****

Elthina is like many in annals of history. The name Arthur Neville Chamberlain comes to mind. Elthina is looking for a way to appease both sides and ends up appeasing nothing.

[Elhanan]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Elthina is like many in annals of history. The name Arthur Neville Chamberlain comes to mind. Elthina is looking for a way to appease both sides and ends up appeasing nothing.

While probably true of Chamberlain, I do not belive his murder would have launched any wars. I see Elthina more as someone like Mother Theresa or possibly Queen Victoria; women known for their good works and passive stances.

[Stanley Woo]

Durgon Ironfist wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Branka and Hespith were among my favourites in DAO. Rarely have I been that creeped out by a non-hooror game!

First day, they come and catch everyone.
Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.
Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.
Fourth day, we wait and fear for our fate.
Fifth day, they return and it's another girl's turn.
Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.
Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.
Eighth day, we hated as she is violated.
Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.
Now she does feast, as she's become the beast.

Gah, quit it! I still get a little creeped out imagining her voice repeating that in the background!

[Maria Caliban]

David has endured verbal abuse for years, and social networking has been used to attack Hepler. But what about the other BioWare writers? I think Mary, Sheryl, and Tanya need in on this action!

As for Jennifer's writing, I loved the end of the Deep Road (Though I hated the endless slog of darkspawn I had to fight before it... Ironies?!). It was wonderfully creepy and evocative. Anders, I wanted to shove down the throat of a thresher maw, but I would still call him well-written.

Actually, it seems as though most of the DA 2 companions - Isabela, Merrill, Anders, and Fenris - were designed to be more polarizing than usual. Varric was the only one I felt was meant to be a 'buddy' that everyone liked.

[Nejeli]

I think I'm about evenly split between 'liked' and 'meh' with what she's written. The only thing I don't really like is the Mage Origin, to the point I downloaded the Dalish mage mod just to be able to play a mage and not go through it again. But she's also written two of the things I liked best in the games - 'Anvil of the Void' and DA2 Anders.

Anvil of the Void Quest -The sequence starting with Hespith was some of the most chilling writing I've come across in a video game. It was superbly done, imo.

Anders - Yes, Anders was very different from Awakening, but he wasn't just Anders anymore. Justice wasn't just riding around in his head, he was a part of him and, being what he was, was bound to have a strong impact on Anders' personality. I thought she did a good job of merging the two characters, and showing the consequences of that. I don't even think what he did in Act 3 was forced or OOC. For Anders, sure, but not Justice or an Anders who's being influenced by him.

After seeing that line-up, I really don't understand the rage I've seen directed at her.

[Maria Caliban]

I believe the Mage Origin was Sheryl's work.

[Auroras]

I really loved the Dwarven Origins, as well as DA2 Anders (although I hated his guts while I was playing... I love to hate him! le sigh). I thought Legacy was excellent, as well, and the Anvil of the Void quest was very well done, albeit tedious.

All in all, I applaud her. She is a wonderful writer, in my opinion.

[Achkas]

Nejeli wrote...

Anders - Yes, Anders was very different from Awakening, but he wasn't just Anders anymore. Justice wasn't just riding around in his head, he was a part of him and, being what he was, was bound to have a strong impact on Anders' personality. I thought she did a good job of merging the two characters, and showing the consequences of that. I don't even think what he did in Act 3 was forced or OOC. For Anders, sure, but not Justice or an Anders who's being influenced by him.

I know that it is possible to explain, in plot terms, why Anders was the way he was in DA2; this doesn't meant that it was a good idea (as, of course, the writers can choose whether to have this particular plot occur as opposed to another one). So I'm not sure it's a good defense for what happened to this character, unless it was mandated to the writer, in which case it's just making the best of a bad situation.

[freche]

DA2 Anders
I thought he was a little too emo, sure joining with justice/vengence can't be easy and have certainly influenced him. In DAO he was quite possitive even if he disliked the whole circle. "The world hates mages and no one understand how it is" could have been a bit toned down.

Dwarf Commoner Origin
The story was nice, however I don't understood why this was labled as Commoner. When playing DAO the casteless seems to be a minority and beggars.

Anvil of the Void Quest
One of the best treaty quest (shared with Ashes). Hespith was just perfect.

Many Orzammar NPC's
Orzammar NPCs where good, felt dwarfy and they had the right dwarf personallity

Sebastian
Even though I disliked Sebastian, he was good written. Torn between the Chantry and his Prince status.

Leandra
Good NPC, the only thing I disliked about her story was that her death was a bit obvious.

Behthany
She had some really good lines and I liked having her in the party. Too bad she only where part of the game during Act 1.

Elthina
Thought she was way too passive, maybe she was a mage hater too even though she didn't show it. She had the power to at least reduce the templars abuse but chose not to.

Much of Legacy's Main Plot
Legacy is the best DLC made for the Dragon Age series. Even though the pathing AI can't handle the way the last boss was made.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I believe the Mage Origin was Sheryl's work.

I should have sent her my fan mail, then.  I loved the mage origin.

[David Gaider]

While I'm certain any writer would feel grateful to have their work spotlighted, I do feel compelled to point out a few things which may not be readily apparent to everyone:

Writing for videogames is not what many people seem to think it is.

I get the impression that many people think it's like a writer who makes a novel. The writer, in that case, is the driving creative force behind what the audience experiences-- they're essentially the only voice, barring any kind of editorial work that has gone on behind the scenes.

The truth is that it's more like a screenwriter for a movie. Yes, we're often the people who write the dialogue and many times a given plot has its genesis with us-- but, like with a movie, there's far more hands that go into the actual story that you're experiencing. Cinematic designers (like John Epler), level designers and even artists are all storytellers as much as we are. It would be nice if we could just write whatever we wanted, and the rest of the design team existed to implement that vision and only that, but that's not how it is. It's a collaborative effort.

This is not an attempt to shift blame for something you didn't like onto someone else, or detract from the successes our writing team has accomplished-- just a little reality check. The writing is the most obvious thing you notice, sure. Just realize that the entire package that you're enjoying has a lot more that went into it than just the work of one person. Even the writing on a specific plot or character often has had more than one person working on it.

So just be careful when you single something out and say "X is responsible for this". Good or bad, chances are that's not the entire story.


Insert "The More You Know" rainbow pic.


Now continue with your regularly scheduled delusions.

[Cuthlan]

Filament wrote...

I personally blame David Gaider alone for everything that went wrong in DA2.

I'm convinced he is entirely to blame for the Gromnir cameo a long time ago...

Still haven't forgiven him for that.

[Apollo Starflare]

Whilst Mary (Kirby) generally writes my favourite characters and nuggets of DA lore, I must say I've enjoyed almost all of that content really, some of it I've enjoyed immensely in fact. And short of possibly the infamous controversy surrounding DA2 Anders there really isn't anything there that jumps out as 'bad', or should single her out at all, it just makes that whole thing even crazier if you ask me.

Looking at it I would imagine Jennifer played a large role in defining the Hawke family as a whole. Leandra, Bethany (I really loved her dialogue actually), and Legacy.

Oh and personally I really liked the Elthina character, mostly BECAUSE of her passive nature in fact. Just worked with the way the plot was designed for me. It was nice to have another character with that mixture of quiet authority, wisdom, and grace that, in Origins, Wynne provided.

[Nejeli]

Achkas wrote...

I know that it is possible to explain, in plot terms, why Anders was the way he was in DA2; this doesn't meant that it was a good idea (as, of course, the writers can choose whether to have this particular plot occur as opposed to another one). So I'm not sure it's a good defense for what happened to this character, unless it was mandated to the writer, in which case it's just making the best of a bad situation.

YMMV. I think it was a good idea. I like both versions of Anders, but I found him far more interesting in DA2 than I did in Awakening.

[dreadpiratesnugglecakes]

Wow..the Hespith section of Anvil of the void is one of my favorite parts of DAO...and yet she is responsible for the giant walking d***head that was Anders in DA2? Cognitive dissonance. It's like the same person that invented the chicken sandwich also invented the vomit omlette. Sounds like she does better with more supervision or more story boundries.

[schalafi]

David Gaider, Cheryl C;hee, Mary Kirby, Jennifer Hepler, are all wonderful writers, and have afforded me hours of interesting game play, and memorable characters, that wouldn't be possible without their magic touch.

[Winterfly]

DA2 Anders was horrendous, simply put.

Modifié par Winterfly, 01 mars 2012 - 01:19 .